Personal Favorite Ests

[Shadow Mir]

She doesn't have wait for an even worse then fe9 meter to be able to attack.

But in the end Levant that's fine you don't use her. There are people who do like to use her for fun. You can stop trying to argue now considering at this point you are just doing it to aggrovate people at this point .

You seem to be under the impression that everyone has to agree with your way of playing or ltc despite you not even being a ltc player

Coming off as elitist is not my intention, but I am rather quick to heat up when in an argument. That being said, I concede your point on her being able to attack any time. Also, I do use bad units from time to time, but I've never seen someone with circumstances as unfortunate as Sophia's (or Wendy's, but she's not the focus of this). And this is coming from somebody who's been able to use FIONA successfully.

[Jedi]

Coming off as elitist is not my intention, but I am rather quick to heat up when in an argument. That being said, I concede your point on her being able to attack any time. Also, I do use bad units from time to time, but I've never seen someone with circumstances as unfortunate as Sophia's (or Wendy's, but she's not the focus of this). And this is coming from somebody who's been able to use FIONA successfully.

Try using Sheema in fe12 makes Wendy look like a cakewalk

Or almost any late game fe12 person. Unless you have the money and boosters to burn.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Jedi Fon Fabre

[Nobody]

I find casuals hate more on LTC than the other way around. But whatever.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS SO MUCH THIS.

People who doesn't care about a minimal amount of efficiency, to the point of thinking Sophia is good (lol), are always trashing LTC and trying to pretend a character is good even needing 200 turns to reach a reasonable level of usability. Yet, the LTCers are the ones trying to push their mindsets to others lol. And I'm not even a LTCer or anything close to that. I don't even play efficiently.

Sophia is bad because you need to waste a unbelievable amount of time (and maybe resources) in her. In fire emblem, that's exactly the definition of bad. As simple as that. No one is stopping you from using her, but she's still bad.

what's wrong with trying to make sophia better

slowing your pace isn't such a big deal when you're not doing LTC

Slowing your pace =/= wasting 250 boring turns trying to make a bad unit hit with a 25% hit rate. There are many units that can be easily usable with slowing down a little. Sophia isn't one of them. you need to slow down A LOT to make her even minimally usable.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Nobody

[Jedi]

Its two way street. Casuals tens to hate Ltc. Ltcer s tend to hate casual

Very rarely will you find someone who does both. But I do know a few including myself. The most important part is to have fun. Playing how you like whether it be efficient or using whatever you want.

Its your choice, and we shouldn't shun people who play a different way. Yet it happens all the time here. Constant threads about efficiency which put down people who aren't familiar with it chime in then you have threads of the most goofy that will have people say ltc ruined the fan base eventually because the 2 sides clash so much

[Nobody]

Its two way street. Casuals tens to hate Ltc. Ltcer s tend to hate casual

Very rarely will you find someone who does both. But I do know a few including myself. The most important part is to have fun. Playing how you like whether it be efficient or using whatever you want.

Its your choice, and we shouldn't shun people who play a different way. Yet it happens all the time here. Constant threads about efficiency which put down people who aren't familiar with it chime in then you have threads of the most goofy that will have people say ltc ruined the fan base eventually because the 2 sides clash so much

What the hell does having fun has to do with a unit being good or not? What I'm trying to say, is that you might want to use Sophia as much as you want, and you might find it fun to train her (for me that's painful). Yet, that won't make her good. It's a fact she's bad. You can use her, no one is stopping you. She's still bad. As simple as that.

I also play FE to have fun, and not for anything else. I don't LTC, because for me, that's not fun. I don't use Sophia either, because slowing down 200 turns in order to make her usable is even less fun. It's actually mentally painful.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Nobody

[RJWalker]

Try using Sheema in fe12 makes Wendy look like a cakewalk

Or almost any late game fe12 person. Unless you have the money and boosters to burn.

Unless you're on Lunatic, using Sheema is FAR easier then using Wendy. Or Sophia.

[Jedi]

What the hell does having fun has to do with a unit being good or not? What I'm trying to say, is that you might want to use Sophia as much as you want, and you might find it fun to train her (for me that's painful). Yet, that won't make her good. It's a fact she's bad.

I also play FE to have fun, and not for anything else. I don't LTC, because for me, that's not fun. I don't use Sophia either, because slowing down 200 turns in order to make her usable is even less fun. It's actually mentally painful.

What the hell do you play games for? Mental taxation? Fun is the main reason games are played

Some people like Sophia and are willing to go the extra mile. 200 turns is a bit of an extreme exaggeration escpially in nm fe6

[IceBrand]

My favorite is Nino from FE7.

[RJWalker]

What the hell do you play games for? Mental taxation? Fun is the main reason games are played

You didn't even understand what he's saying.

[PKL]

Try using Sheema in fe12 makes Wendy look like a cakewalk

Or almost any late game fe12 person. Unless you have the money and boosters to burn.

Now that's just false. Sheema has Silver Lance and Silver Bow access and if you don't care about turns, she grows really well (her growths are much better than wendy's). She can also reclass out of her low move and be a Sniper with Parthia with these growths:

60 65 0 65 90 80 20

10

Her spd is Caeda lite, yo.

[Nobody]

What the hell do you play games for? Mental taxation? Fun is the main reason games are played

Some people like Sophia and are willing to go the extra mile. 200 turns is a bit of an extreme exaggeration escpially in nm fe6

Re-read my post, because you OBVIOUSLY misread it. LOL

I just want to add one thing: When people say Sophia (or any unit) is bad, they aren't saying that you aren't supposed to use it. They aren't saying you shouldn't use it. They aren't saying you can't use it. They are just saying that it is hard to use it. No one, even the most rabid sophia fanboy would deny it's hard to use her. By definition, she's a bad fire emblem unit, because in fire emblem, a bad unit is one that is hard to use.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Nobody

[Jedi]

You didn't even understand what he's saying.

I understood perfectly he says Sophia pains him to use. So why does he even try? Some people can handle it some can't.

[Nobody]

I understood perfectly he says Sophia pains him to use. So why does he even try? Some people can handle it some can't.

My god it's almost like you're intentionaly trying to be obtuse. I DON'T USE SOPHIA! I tried to use her once. And as I said in the other post, I ONLY play fire emblem to have fun.

That post:

What the hell do you play games for? Mental taxation? Fun is the main reason games are played

Some people like Sophia and are willing to go the extra mile. 200 turns is a bit of an extreme exaggeration escpially in nm fe6

doesn't make even a small amount of sense.

BTW:

I just want to add one thing: When people say Sophia (or any unit) is bad, they aren't saying that you aren't supposed to use it. They aren't saying you shouldn't use it. They aren't saying you can't use it. They are just saying that it is hard to use it. No one, even the most rabid sophia fanboy would deny it's hard to use her. By definition, she's a bad fire emblem unit, because in fire emblem, a bad unit is one that is hard to use.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Nobody

[PKL]

Jedi, I think a better example is Ymir from FE12. That one might be harder to use than Wendy :P. You know even the Wolfguard is fairly trainable. I've managed to train Wolt in casual play but I could never quite train Ymir. He's too bad.

[Jedi]

Perhaps I did misread a fair bit and stepped out of line. Report my recent posts. I should get warned for that idiotic rant

[RJWalker]

I like using Ests as much as the next guy but Sophia is just bad. Her growths aren't even all that good so the end result is hardly better than what Raigh would be or what Niime already is.

[Rapier]

I just want to add one thing: When people say Sophia (or any unit) is bad, they aren't saying that you aren't supposed to use it. They aren't saying you shouldn't use it. They aren't saying you can't use it. They are just saying that it is hard to use it. No one, even the most rabid sophia fanboy would deny it's hard to use her.

This.

I'm not against Sophia users nor against LTC players as well. Play as you'd like and have fun in your own way. She can turn out good and be worthwhile for some people, if you have enough patience and find it worth the time. That's all.

[Shadow Mir]

Try using Sheema in fe12 makes Wendy look like a cakewalk

Or almost any late game fe12 person. Unless you have the money and boosters to burn.

What difficulty are we talking about? Because aside from Lunatic, I can't even imagine having nearly the amount of issues with her that I'd have with Wendy, who's a struggle to work with even on Normal mode.

Jedi, I think a better example is Ymir from FE12. That one might be harder to use than Wendy :P. You know even the Wolfguard is fairly trainable. I've managed to train Wolt in casual play but I could never quite train Ymir. He's too bad.

You got my attention with this. So... how bad is Ymir????

And going back to the Sophia angle, Baldrick made an assumption that had Sophia at level 11 in 16x - but my problem with that is the part where other than mages and knights, she can't muster anything resembling a reliable hit rate against anything (or at least, anything that isn't severely weighed down). And her join chapter is one I can't afford to take slow either. For her to get there, IIRC, means she needs at least 5 kills per chapter (unless I'm screwing up with the experience formula).

Edited December 25, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[Caster]

I'm a rabid Sophia fanperson and I even admit she's terrible to use.

My favorite are Sophia, Nino and Est, by the way.

[Jedi]

Re-read my post, because you OBVIOUSLY misread it. LOL

I just want to add one thing: When people say Sophia (or any unit) is bad, they aren't saying that you aren't supposed to use it. They aren't saying you shouldn't use it. They aren't saying you can't use it. They are just saying that it is hard to use it. No one, even the most rabid sophia fanboy would deny it's hard to use her. By definition, she's a bad fire emblem unit, because in fire emblem, a bad unit is one that is hard to use.

Wise words. I goofed

And PKL sorry I got a fe12 thing wrong again I wish I could play it more again :P

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

Sara, because she's so kawaii ^__^

And because she's decent and thanks to Elite, not bad to play catch-up with.

I'm a rabid Sophia fanperson and I even admit she's terrible to use.
My favorite are Sophia, Nino and Est, by the way.

You're not a rabid fanperson of Sophia if you can admit that.

[ZemZem]

Sara + Elite Mode = gg FE5

She became one of my best units in two chapters. :P

[RJWalker]

An Est that is incredibly good right from the beginning is hardly an est.

[Shin]

Jedi, I think a better example is Ymir from FE12. That one might be harder to use than Wendy :P. You know even the Wolfguard is fairly trainable. I've managed to train Wolt in casual play but I could never quite train Ymir. He's too bad.

H2 Medeus didn't stand a chance. I can't really think of any FE units that are totally untrainable, just some who aren't really worth it.

[Ice Sage]

Agreed Shin!

My Favorite Est is Sara. Elite and Staves~