Chrom is a bad king/leader

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

They should get the writers from FE9 back.

Why?

FE9 didn't meet their sales expectations. Neither did FE10. FE13 sold buckets despite plot holes, wasted opportunities, gimmick characters, sub-par world building, cheap resolutions, and all the rest of it.

Color me surprised if they ever spend Tellius-level degree of detail on building a universe, story, and characters ever again. They learned in the marketplace that a) they don't have to and b) maybe they're better off not doing it.

[Rapier]

Why?

FE9 didn't meet their sales expectations. Neither did FE10. FE13 sold buckets despite plot holes, wasted opportunities, gimmick characters, sub-par world building, cheap resolutions, and all the rest of it.

Color me surprised if they ever spend Tellius-level degree of detail on building a universe, story, and characters ever again. They learned in the marketplace that a) they don't have to and b) maybe they're better off not doing it.

Shouldn't the blame be placed on how much FE is unknown outside Japan and their lack of marketing? FE13 had lots of it and it is more newbie friendly than FE10 ("lol too hard why can't micaiah take two hits from an enemy unit derpherp"). FE7 also had nice supports, characters and a better story. I would be half satisfied with a game like that.

Also, I understand your point, Airship Cannon. I didn't play the dlc, I only read the script, that's why I made that mistake. Still, if Morgan had half the wits s/he shows ingame, s/he'd let the foot soldiers deal with Inigo and Owain and go after the others with his/her fliers. Still feels like a stupid move if you ask me, and it destroys the drama.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire
Removed offensive slur

[ClassyWolf]

Why?

FE9 didn't meet their sales expectations. Neither did FE10. FE13 sold buckets despite plot holes, wasted opportunities, gimmick characters, sub-par world building, cheap resolutions, and all the rest of it.

Color me surprised if they ever spend Tellius-level degree of detail on building a universe, story, and characters ever again. They learned in the marketplace that a) they don't have to and b) maybe they're better off not doing it.

Didn't nintendo also put a lot more effort in marketing with awakening than previous fire emblems? and if I remeber correctly, the gamecube wasn't exaclty a succes in sales?

As I said earlier, I'm not expecting shakesperian writing, but I'm hoping the next fe plot will be a somewhat more consistent and more thought out.

[RJWalker]

The deal with unsealing Falchion's true power is rendered meaningless because the 'Seal Grima' ending is meaningless too because of the other ending.

[Czar_Yoshi]

As for the point about the invincible Grima, he came off as incredibly fragile to me. Yes, he is a dude who's possessed by a Bad Dragon, but to use Genealogy as an example (specifically Thracia 776):

Ishtar:
"Bishop Cyas!"

Cyas:
"Queen Ishtar? And Lord Rinehart... What is the matter? You look worried."

Ishtar:
"Yurius is not well! He is suffering from a very high fever..."

Cyas:
"He was never strong, but he seems to be getting worse lately... Have you told the Lopto bishops?"

Ishtar:
"I won't let them go near him!"

Cyas:
"Not even Lord Manfroy!? Why not?"

Ishtar:
"You know that reason more than anyone else, Lord Cyas... Please understand."

Cyas:
"...Very well. I will try to be of some help. Where is Lord Yurius?"

Ishtar:
"In my room in Conort..."

Cyas:
"I see... Well then, let's go, Queen Ishtar."

It's possible Grima is the same way. Based on the two Morgan conversations and the fact that he's sneaking around Ylisstol instead of barging in makes it seem like he's afraid to use his power- he only uses it when the children have gathered all of the Gemstones and the Awakening is at hand. His concerns don't seem to be unfounded, either, as he loses control after the final battle and can't move. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened before. I recall Lyon was constantly attended for most of the game by Riev, who acted like he was there to control the prince in case anything got out of hand, as well.

[ClassyWolf]

The deal with unsealing Falchion's true power is rendered meaningless because the 'Seal Grima' ending is meaningless too because of the other ending.

Do they by the way ever explain why the falchion need to be repowered? isn't the falchions thing that it never grows dull?

for that mather, how come the falchion changes from this: http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110517201420/fireemblem/images/8/82/NewMysteryEvt_04.png

to this: http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130120040627/fireemblem/images/0/01/FalchionAwakening.jpg

I'm not talking about the hilt, but how the indestructable blade somehow gets a rehaul.

I know the original looks like this: http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090428185907/fireemblem/images/7/7c/Falchion.jpg but it still doesen't explain how the hole in the blade appeared.

Edit:

It's possible Grima is the same way. Based on the two Morgan conversations and the fact that he's sneaking around Ylisstol instead of barging in makes it seem like he's afraid to use his power- he only uses it when the children have gathered all of the Gemstones and the Awakening is at hand. His concerns don't seem to be unfounded, either, as he loses control after the final battle and can't move. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened before. I recall Lyon was constantly attended for most of the game by Riev, who acted like he was there to control the prince in case anything got out of hand, as well.

wasn't Lyons thing though that he was fairly weak?

Edited January 2, 2014 by that one person

[Czar_Yoshi]

Apparently that's part of the hilt.

It needs to be repowered because Naga sealed it's power after the first war with Grima to prevent it from being misused, similar to the Divine General Weapons in FE6/7.

[ClassyWolf]

Apparently that's part of the hilt.

I'm talking about the white part which is close to the hilt, not the golden part which is the guard.

Edited January 2, 2014 by that one person

[Skynstein]

Shouldn't the blame be placed on how much FE is unknown outside Japan and their lack of marketing? FE13 had lots of it and it is more newbie friendly than FE10 ("lol too hard why can't micaiah take two hits from an enemy unit derpherp" - most GameFAGs). FE7 also had nice supports, characters and a better story. I would be half satisfied with a game like that.

Pretty sure Awakening was a bigger success in Japan than its predecessors. Its success in the West could be attributed to better marketing (especially after the disaster that was Shadow Dragon... no amount of marketing could save that game), but not in Japan where the series is near and dear to the public.

And the "too hard" complaints probably come from labelling "Easy" a difficulty that originally was not labeled as such (Radiant Dawn's Western Easy is Japanese Normal... Or was it Path of Radiance?). Then again, Awakening's Normal is widely considered very easy.

I personally think the assertion in this thread can be summed up like this: I believe Chrom is a good leader in the battlefield. After reading the story, you can't say he doesn't inspire his soldiers. That to me is good leadership. As a politician, though, Chrom falls flat. But that's not too much of a problem to me because it becomes a point very early in the story and also because Chrom is a developing king. I've questioned myself many times (and not with regards to Awakening) if it's always healthy for stories if their main characters are ultraintelligent and always see through their enemies' plans. I personally think it's not. It's quite ironic that a character like Avatar is lambasted for always having an answer to everything while Chrom is bashed for being "dumb" (not that he is). I personally never see any indication in the story that Chrom is politically and tactically bright, especially since Avatar is the one always saving his ass from trouble. He is, however, portrayed as a person with good intentions, if somewhat rash, and IMO this point is gotten across in the story very clearly.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Malebolganone

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

Didn't nintendo also put a lot more effort in marketing with awakening than previous fire emblems? and if I remeber correctly, the gamecube wasn't exaclty a succes in sales?

As I said earlier, I'm not expecting shakesperian writing, but I'm hoping the next fe plot will be a somewhat more consistent and more thought out.

The marketing (at least here in the US) was like nothing I've seen for FE before and the GameCube install base was pretty bad. But I keep hearing from different sectors of Western fandom "Well, Tellius games had better female characters" and "Tellius had such great world-building" and "FE9 games paced out the support conversations better" and "Tellius wasn't all about waifus and fanservice" and well...

Tellius didn't meet sales expectations and Waifu Emblem did. I would love the next game to prove me very, very wrong, but at the end of the day, InsSys is a business. They explicitly backed away from console games because of 9/10... who knows what other unpleasant lessons they learned.

[ClassyWolf]

I personally think the assertion in this thread can be summed up like this: I believe Chrom is a good leader in the battlefield. After reading the story, you can't say he doesn't inspire his soldiers. That to me is good leadership. As a politician, though, Chrom falls flat. But that's not too much of a problem to me because it becomes a point very early in the story and also because Chrom is a developing king. I've questioned myself many times (and not with regards to Awakening) if it's always healthy for stories if their main characters are ultraintelligent and always see through their enemies' plans. I personally think it's not. It's quite ironic that a character like Avatar is lambasted for always having an answer to everything while Chrom is bashed for being "dumb" (not that he is). I personally never see any indication in the story that Chrom is politically and tactically bright, especially since Avatar is the one always saving his ass from trouble. He is, however, portrayed as a person with good intentions, if somewhat rash, and IMO this point is gotten across in the story very clearly.

The thing is, Chrom is a royalty, and he has no knowlegde of politics? They make a point of that Marth is trained in it in the prologue and points out in chapter 7 that he at least know the history and mission of hos country.

Elincia has an exuse of beeing secluded and that her exsistance could cause civil unrest since Renning was allready apointed to be Ramons successor.

Ike might not be the smartest, but thats why he treasures Soren, who is a fairly good tactian.

And avatar comes up with plans that even the red mage from 8-bit theater would call ridicolous, just look at chapter 9 and 23.

edit:

Tellius didn't meet sales expectations and Waifu Emblem did. I would love the next game to prove me very, very wrong, but at the end of the day, InsSys is a business. They explicitly backed away from console games because of 9/10... who knows what other unpleasant lessons they learned.

Any reviewer who wrote "the story was fantastic" or "the story was extraordinary" or "this is the best game in the series" lost all credability in my eyes.

I wonder if people are confusing "favourite" with "best", one, because best is arguable, favourite, you happen to like it the best.

Edited January 2, 2014 by that one person

[arvilino]

Shouldn't the blame be placed on how much FE is unknown outside Japan and their lack of marketing? FE13 had lots of it and it is more newbie friendly than FE10 ("lol too hard why can't micaiah take two hits from an enemy unit derpherp" - most GameFAGs). FE7 also had nice supports, characters and a better story. I would be half satisfied with a game like that.

Also, I understand your point, Airship Cannon. I didn't play the dlc, I only read the script, that's why I made that mistake. Still, if Morgan had half the wits s/he shows ingame, s/he'd let the foot soldiers deal with Inigo and Owain and go after the others with his/her fliers. Still feels like a stupid move if you ask me, and it destroys the drama.

Consider that Japanese response to FE9's Maniac mode is what got it removed for the west. There's a good chance that their(then current) method of producing the games in terms of both story, game play and even difficulty were some of the bigger factors in it's minor appeal, you wouldn't think Shadow Dragon,New Mystery and Radiant Dawn were on the two most successful Nintendo consoles/handhelds of all time would you?

While there's nothing innately wrong with those 3 titles to a fan of the series. Their content and presentation was basically making the games more niche than ever(even in Japan) when they had the greatest audience available.

Edited January 2, 2014 by arvilino

[BrightBow]

The marketing (at least here in the US) was like nothing I've seen for FE before and the GameCube install base was pretty bad. But I keep hearing from different sectors of Western fandom "Well, Tellius games had better female characters" and "Tellius had such great world-building" and "FE9 games paced out the support conversations better" and "Tellius wasn't all about waifus and fanservice" and well...

Tellius didn't meet sales expectations and Waifu Emblem did. I would love the next game to prove me very, very wrong, but at the end of the day, InsSys is a business. They explicitly backed away from console games because of 9/10... who knows what other unpleasant lessons they learned.

The power of marketing can not be underestimated. It's the whole reason the Wii outdid the PS3 and the 360 despite all the experts predicting that the console would crash and burn.

Nintendo aimed there marketing towards the big unknown quantity who might enjoy their products while the other companies merely marketed to the people already playing games.

The existence of people willing to buy your products is useless of those people don't know about your products.

Besides, with good marketing you can sell literal crap to people because by the time they know what they bought, they already handed over the money.

Also, I had the impression that the 3DS had quite an uprising early last year. Awakening might have simply been released during the right time.

Be it as it may be, if money for IS is really all that matters, then they should just make Ego Shooters.

Edited January 2, 2014 by BrightBow

[RJWalker]

What the hell are you talking about? Shadow Dragon was a big seller (for FE) both in Japan and in the rest of the world. New Mystery sold more copies in its first 2 weeks than PoR and RD did (in Japan) EVER. Combined.

This myth about SD killing the franchise really needs to die.

It's Tellius that nearly killed the franchise and the reason FE11/12 even exist is to cash in on the nostalgia of the Japanese audience (and the West's curiosity with Marth, I guess) to rake in cash. And it worked.

[ClassyWolf]

Consider that Japanese response to FE9's Maniac mode is what got it removed for the west. There's a good chance that their(then current) method of producing the games in terms of both story, game play and even difficulty were some of the bigger factors in it's minor appeal, you wouldn't think Shadow Dragon,New Mystery and Radiant Dawn were on the two most successful Nintendo consoles/handhelds of all time would you?

RD and SD didn't really become that known since not a lot of marketing was made for them.

and the sales of shadow dragon wasn't half bad beeing over 500k in USA and Japan combined... PoR and RD had pretty bad sales though as far as I know.

[arvilino]

RD and SD didn't really become that known since not a lot of marketing was made for them.

and the sales of shadow dragon wasn't half bad beeing over 500k in USA and Japan combined... PoR and RD had pretty bad sales though as far as I know.

I thought they all sold around that number, which was the problem. The Gamecube had a userbase 5-7 times smaller the size of the Wii and DS respectively yet Path of Radiance numbers was what Radiant Dawn and Shadow Dragon were doing worldwide.

Edited January 2, 2014 by arvilino

[PKL]

I remmeber I found out Radiant Dawn was a thing when I went to Gamestop casually and saw it there. There was no marketing or anything.

[ClassyWolf]

I thought they all sold around that number, which was the problem. The Gamecube had a userbase 5-7 times smaller the size of the Wii and DS respectively yet Path of Radiance numbers was what Radiant Dawn and Shadow Dragon were doing worldwide.

wasnt' there an interview (in the magazine "hobby consolas") where they said that the minimum sales per game is 250? and shadow dragon sold decently compared path of radiance and radiant dawn if I remeber correctly.

Also about marketing... I didn't even know path of radiance exsited until SSBB, and I had trouble in finding a copy.

[BrightBow]

wasnt' there an interview (in the magazine "hobby consolas") where they said that the minimum sales per game is 250? and shadow dragon sold decently compared path of radiance and radiant dawn if I remeber correctly.

Also about marketing... I didn't even know path of radiance exsited until SSBB, and I had trouble in finding a copy.

That sounds like the amount of sells Awakening needed for Nintendo to make for further installments in the series.

Edit: Just checked it. That's exactly what this interview in Hobby Consola was.

Edited January 2, 2014 by BrightBow

[ClassyWolf]

That sounds like the amount of sells Awakening needed for Nintendo to make for further installments in the series.

http://www.fireemblemwod.net/articulo.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1369329094&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2

They have an english translation there:

- Nintendo said that 80% of players should can finish the game, but as there would be a 20% that wouldn't was the reason for including Casual mode.

- According to them, you can finish the game without using the "Pair up" system.

- According to Tohru Narihiro, the game is exactly the same in Japanese and Western versions (riiight... at least they rectify that is about mechanics)

- One more time they explain the reasons for the DLC, and also the new characters desings explained in previous interviews.

- They consider the Fire Emblem public a "Purist" one, but should also attract the general public.

- "How is working with Nintendo?" They explain that the 250.000 copies thing is almost with every game, isn't the first time. "It's like being in a very strict school that teaches you to no make games so I have a good time. The game should reach users or would be useless. [...] But you realize that it is necessary for be able to satisfy users."

- If they did a FE for WiiU, the game must sell 700.000 copies. First the series must improve on portables.

- They can't say that they are working on a new Advance Wars, but can't deny it either.

don't know how credible they are, but thats were I heard it

[Skynstein]

The thing is, Chrom is a royalty, and he has no knowlegde of politics? They make a point of that Marth is trained in it in the prologue and points out in chapter 7 that he at least know the history and mission of hos country.

Elincia has an exuse of beeing secluded and that her exsistance could cause civil unrest since Renning was allready apointed to be Ramons successor.

Ike might not be the smartest, but thats why he treasures Soren, who is a fairly good tactian.

And avatar comes up with plans that even the red mage from 8-bit theater would call ridicolous, just look at chapter 9 and 23.

edit:

Any reviewer who wrote "the story was fantastic" or "the story was extraordinary" or "this is the best game in the series" lost all credability in my eyes.

I wonder if people are confusing "favourite" with "best", one, because best is arguable, favourite, you happen to like it the best.

Chrom wasn't raised to be the king though (Emmeryn was). Unlike Marth.

Avatar's plans are not too bad. Blowing up your own ships was pretty damn good. Tyrion Lannister ruined Stannis Baratheon's assault on King's Landing the same way in Game of Thrones. Granted, he used only one ship, but the logic was the very same.

As for sales, I'm sure Casual mode and other changes which meant Awakening left the niche shelf helped its sales. And of course the reviews.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Malebolganone

[ClassyWolf]

Chrom wasn't raised to be the king though (Emmeryn was). Unlike Marth.

So Chrom has no knowledge of the world (Regna Ferox, does not know their way of "diplomacy"), and has no advisors, and the only person who is there to keep heim alive, Fredrick, he disregards when he is giving advise (they find avatar who is clad in a grimeal robe and has the grimeal mark on his hand), and Emmeryn would let him leave the castle? and why wouldn't they give him any kind of education if there ever came a need for him to take the throne?

If the answear to all those questions are "no", I can't make any sense of that world.

[BrightBow]

Chrom wasn't raised to be the king though (Emmeryn was). Unlike Marth.

As for sales, I'm sure Casual mode and other changes which meant Awakening left the niche shelf helped its sales. And of course the reviews.

Chrom was still the guy send as a diplomat up to Ferox. If Emmeryn knew what she was doing, she should have send someone else.

Whether it's Chrom or Emmeryn, someone's incompetence should be acknowledged by the story.

Edited January 2, 2014 by BrightBow

[Skynstein]

Chrom was still the guy send as a diplomat up to Ferox.

Whether it's Chrom or Emmeryn, someone's incompetence should be acknowledged by the story.

Jesus Christ, Chrom himself states he's not good with diplomacy when he reaches Ferox! Even then, they underestimated Ferox's unwillingness to yield and cooperate. Their troops were at highest alert because of Plegian incursions.

I considered the possibility that Chrom could prove them his nobility by showing his brand, but such a mark can easily be faked and they wouldn't fall for it.

[ClassyWolf]

Jesus Christ, Chrom himself states he's not good with diplomacy when he reaches Ferox! Even then, they underestimated Ferox's unwillingness to yield and cooperate. Their troops were at highest alert because of Plegian incursions.

And Emmeryn can't send an acctual diplomat to help him when he tells he is bad at diplomacy?

I considered the possibility that Chrom could prove them his nobility by showing his brand, but such a mark can easily be faked and they wouldn't fall for it.

I wonder why they don't notice it since Chrom wears it in the open, but then again Chrom an co. are blind enough to miss the mark on avatars hand...