IceBrand Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 In the Akaneia games, there was a high population of Manakete subspecies living in the Dolhr region. By Awakening, that continent has become Plegia...they were possibly driven to extinction seeing what Plegia is now. Even worse, if what Panne said about the Laguz is true, it might be possible that every non-human creature barring the female Divine Manaketes and actual animals were wiped out in some purge, and if you think about it, who else started a religious purge? Chrom and Lissa's father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiac Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) It could be the need of material,which would explain why you can get infinite amounts of Beaststones and Dragonstones from the corpses of the species. EDIT: Also Akaneia happend thousands of years before Awakening so it could be Chrom's great great grandfather,or some person in between the time gap. Edited January 11, 2014 by Jiac2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 If you recall, all of the hostile dragons of Archanea were sealed away, never to awaken again. Panne is a Taguel, not Laguz, but that is still a possibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) EDIT: Also Akaneia happend thousands of years before Awakening so it could be Chrom's great great grandfather,or some person in between the time gap. It can't have been to long ago. Emmeryn knew about the Taguel but did not know about them being wiped out. Emmeryn: Brave taguel, there are not words to express my gratitude. ... Panne: Yes, it's precious little your kind seem to understand. It was man-spawn like you that invaded our warren and slaughtered my people. Emmeryn: What?! Is this true? Who would do such a thing? I don't know how the ruler of the biggest country on the continent wouldn't know about a genocide, though. Edited January 11, 2014 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 If you recall, all of the hostile dragons of Archanea were sealed away, never to awaken again. Panne is a Taguel, not Laguz, but that is still a possibility Just the Earth Dragons. And they would return, along with Medeus, should the Orbs be removed from the Fire Emblem. GUESS what has happened by the time of FE13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Just the Earth Dragons. And they would return, along with Medeus, should the Orbs be removed from the Fire Emblem. GUESS what has happened by the time of FE13. Welp..... Ylisse, you done fucked up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 If you recall, all of the hostile dragons of Archanea were sealed away, never to awaken again. Panne is a Taguel, not Laguz, but that is still a possibility Only the degenerated Dragons, mostly Earth Dragons with a few other types if the remake is to believed. The other manakete tribes and Dolhr's remnants are still around at the end of Book 2. In addition to their absence, its annoying how the story initially makes a big deal out of the taguel's extinction, then never mentions it again. Talk about a waste of an interesting plot thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc71 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Given that there are ~2000 years between those two games...a lot could have happened..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 It's extremely doubtful that it was Chrom's father. Panne states she owes a debt to Ylisse, and that's why she protects Emm (after having been notified by Henry, because Henry wanted to prevent an easy victory for Plegia- which ironically his doing so helps shorten the war he wanted to extend). It's more likely the Grimleal did the purge [in fact I'm half sure it was stated that was the case], due to Panne's distinct hatred towards Grimleals (as seen in her supports with Henry)-- she hates humans, yes, but hates the Grimleal far more. The Manakete were dying off and going infertile 2000 years before, and a good chunk of them got sealed away. They're just naturally going extinct. As far as Gems and Dragons go, Grima sorta rewrote all the rules-- since he's a wicked threat. Since the Gems being in the Fire Emblem are needed, along with a proper vessel, to summon that monstrosity, keeping them out is of bigger importance. [Realize: Grima of the playable timeline is -NEVER- Awoken. The final boss Grima is Grima of the Original timeline]... Of course, that begs the question, if the Earth Dragons aren't a threat (now), and Grima is... why didn't they just get rid of the stupid gems in the first place, and permanently prevent the necessary Awakening ritual to keep him down for good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Manaketes are also sacrificed by the Grimleal in Awakening. Ok, maybe not sacrificed, but the Grimleal does something shady with them as per Chapter 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 It's extremely doubtful that it was Chrom's father. Panne states she owes a debt to Ylisse, and that's why she protects Emm (after having been notified by Henry, because Henry wanted to prevent an easy victory for Plegia- which ironically his doing so helps shorten the war he wanted to extend). It's more likely the Grimleal did the purge [in fact I'm half sure it was stated that was the case], due to Panne's distinct hatred towards Grimleals (as seen in her supports with Henry)-- she hates humans, yes, but hates the Grimleal far more. The Manakete were dying off and going infertile 2000 years before, and a good chunk of them got sealed away. They're just naturally going extinct. As far as Gems and Dragons go, Grima sorta rewrote all the rules-- since he's a wicked threat. Since the Gems being in the Fire Emblem are needed, along with a proper vessel, to summon that monstrosity, keeping them out is of bigger importance. [Realize: Grima of the playable timeline is -NEVER- Awoken. The final boss Grima is Grima of the Original timeline]... Of course, that begs the question, if the Earth Dragons aren't a threat (now), and Grima is... why didn't they just get rid of the stupid gems in the first place, and permanently prevent the necessary Awakening ritual to keep him down for good? Plot hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Manaketes are also sacrificed by the Grimleal in Awakening. Ok, maybe not sacrificed, but the Grimleal does something shady with them as per Chapter 8. If Grima really is an Earth Dragon, then he would count most manaketes as allies. Also the only Manakete known to be captured was Nowi, a Divine Dragon, and all its stated is that she was used for amusement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) If Grima really is an Earth Dragon, then he would count most manaketes as allies. Also the only Manakete known to be captured was Nowi, a Divine Dragon, and all its stated is that she was used for amusement. Is it ever stated that Nowi is Divine? By all means she's shown to basically just be like Myrrh. Just a Manakete, no type. The Grimleal might have been her slavers, but then again, maybe not. It's unknown. They were up to something shady, that's for sure. Edited January 12, 2014 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Is it ever stated that Nowi is Divine? By all means she's shown to basically just be like Myrrh. Just a Manakete, no type. The Grimleal might have been her slavers, but then again, maybe not. It's unknown. They were up to something shady, that's for sure. She has Wyrmsbane which only Divine Dragons possess, she and her daughter can also communicate with Naga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Well, since all Manaketes in Awakening have Wyrmsbane, that's not too solid of evidence. Remember that the Grimleal who caught Nowi caught her long before Grima was revived. I wouldn't be surprised if what they were doing had nothing to do with Grima's intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Since the Gems being in the Fire Emblem are needed, along with a proper vessel, to summon that monstrosity, keeping them out is of bigger importance. [Realize: Grima of the playable timeline is -NEVER- Awoken. The final boss Grima is Grima of the Original timeline]... Of course, that begs the question, if the Earth Dragons aren't a threat (now), and Grima is... why didn't they just get rid of the stupid gems in the first place, and permanently prevent the necessary Awakening ritual to keep him down for good? Uhh, no, the dragon on whose back you fight IS Grima of the present timeline. The future Grima completes the ritual for awakening when Avatar didn't. As for the Earth Dragons, they were sealed away and would have returned to the world if the gems were ever removed from the Fire Emblem. Tiki was not put back to sleep by Gotoh because the completed Binding Shield allowed her to stay awake without losing control. But the gems have long been removed from the Fire Emblem and distributed across 2 continents. Awakening just just ignores these details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Uhh, no, the dragon on whose back you fight IS Grima of the present timeline. The future Grima completes the ritual for awakening when Avatar didn't No, Grima needs the Gemstones to be awakened which Validar didn't have, so it couldn't have been him. Future Grima claimed the sacrifice meant to restore present Grima's power once he was awakened and used it to restore his own power instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 No, Grima needs the Gemstones to be awakened which Validar didn't have, so it couldn't have been him. Future Grima claimed the sacrifice meant to restore present Grima's power once he was awakened and used it to restore his own power instead. Then why is he in his Avatar form as well as dragon form? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) No, Grima needs the Gemstones to be awakened which Validar didn't have, so it couldn't have been him. Future Grima claimed the sacrifice meant to restore present Grima's power once he was awakened and used it to restore his own power instead. Jack Walker is right actually.With all of the preparations made, the only thing Grima needed was a host that could sustain him. The Avatar was the only suitable vessel for Grima, and since they're the same person, Future Avatar/Grima just took his place as the present vessel. Directly from CH 23 ??? I knew if Lucina managed to rewrite history, Grima would never be resurrected. And I, in turn, would cease to exist. So I had to step in, now and again, to keep my future secured. Like when Validar was killed in his attempt to assassinate Emmeryn... But that is the past, now. We have our future past to think of. All that remains is for you to become Grima, as I did. Then you and I will become as one, and we can reclaim my power. Robin We are not yet the same? ??? ...You were supposed to choose godhood over your pathetic band of servants. But if you'll not claim the sacrifice laid at the Dragon's Table... I will claim it in your place! Edited January 12, 2014 by Hero-King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airship Canon Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Jack Walker is right actually. If what you speak is true, then that would mean that Avatar would never have become one with Grima to begin with in the original timeline. The Avatar was the only suitable vessel for Grima, and since they're the same person, Future Avatar/Grima just took his place as the present vessel No, the OT Grima was already awake and active, he just claimed the sacrifice, which restored the power he lost by the time jump. In the OT, Basilio DIED, and therefore never had a chance to carry out the plan that denied Validar the gemstones [in addition to the fact that OT!Robin WILLINGLY became Grima, but that's beside the point]. The Gemstones are needed for the Awakening, which is needed for Grima to awaken. The only reason Grima even happens in the playable timeline, is because OT Grima is OT Grima. Playable timeline Grima is still very sealed away. Edited January 12, 2014 by Airship Canon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Motendra Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) No, the OT Grima was already awake and active, he just claimed the sacrifice, which restored the power he lost by the time jump. In the OT, Basilio DIED, and therefore never had a chance to carry out the plan that denied Validar the gemstones [in addition to the fact that OT!Robin WILLINGLY became Grima, but that's beside the point]. The Gemstones are needed for the Awakening, which is needed for Grima to awaken. The only reason Grima even happens in the playable timeline, is because OT Grima is OT Grima. Playable timeline Grima is still very sealed away. You forget who OT Grima is. OT Grima IS the OT Avatar, which is why he was even able to become the vessel in PT Avatar's place to begin with. Regardless of which one of them actually took the power, the outcome would still be the same, and they'd be one, yet again On second thought, I don't really want to go off on this tangent. i could care less which one it really is, so if its the latter argument, so be it Edited January 12, 2014 by Hero-King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 OK, so I looked through the entire script... And Validar almost sounds more like he needs the Fire Emblem to become strong enough to prevent you from stopping him than to awaken Grima. The Gemstones/Fire Emblem are only implied to be needed for Grima's resurrection, but Validar gloats many times about how strong they make him. Tiki says the Emblem/Gemstones are needed to perform the Awakening for Naga, and Validar says that the Awakening isn't just for Naga but Grima too. Then he goes on to say that with the Gemstones' power, Avatar won't be able to resist him and his mind control, which makes no sense as Grima later claimed to be the one doing the mind control. According to Gangrel, the Fire Emblem can also grant wishes. Story: derp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 OK, so I looked through the entire script... And Validar almost sounds more like he needs the Fire Emblem to become strong enough to prevent you from stopping him than to awaken Grima. The Gemstones/Fire Emblem are only implied to be needed for Grima's resurrection, but Validar gloats many times about how strong they make him. Tiki says the Emblem/Gemstones are needed to perform the Awakening for Naga, and Validar says that the Awakening isn't just for Naga but Grima too. Then he goes on to say that with the Gemstones' power, Avatar won't be able to resist him and his mind control, which makes no sense as Grima later claimed to be the one doing the mind control. According to Gangrel, the Fire Emblem can also grant wishes. Story: derp. So Awakening turned Naga into a genie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 She grants three wishes and many many plot holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Also, Naga is supposed to be dead. Unless it's actually Nagi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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