Top 25 Fire Emblem characters in 0% growths of ALL TIME (not really) countdown

[Xator Nova]

Didn't see him coming.

Also, who is the one that has better bases in fe9? Or did you mean FE10?

[Espinosa]

Stefan/Tanith I guess?

[Jotari]

Geoffery also has some pretty decent base stats. Though the other two have more availability.

[dondon151]

some FE9 units come pretty close. it's hard to weigh harken's advantages to stefan's or haar's, for example. the important thing is that there are a lot of prepromotes in FE9 who join with what would be phenomenal stats in any previous FE game.

[dondon151]

22. Cormag, from FE8

Flying units who can fight are hard to come by in 0% growths. So though Cormag isn't much to look at (my hypothesis is that an artist at IS drew his right eye a few pixels too low), he's still one of the best units that FE8 has to offer. Stat-wise, a freshly promoted Cormag is actually slightly better than Seth in the important parameters:

Seth: 30 HP, 14 str, 13 skl, 12 spd, 13 luk, 11 def, 8 res

Cormag: 33 HP, 15 str, 11 skl, 13 spd, 4 luk, 12 def, 3 res

For most of the enemies in the game, this is sufficient. 13 spd doubles just about anything unpromoted that isn't a myrmidon or a mercenary, and the strongest wyvern riders in chapter 15 only have 24 atk. Quite often, Cormag is flying around, kicking ass and taking names, though he falters in the face of much stronger bosses.

But that's (sort of) okay, because Cormag is the only really viable user of Pierce in FE8 0%. A single-digit percent chance to proc an attack that ignores enemy defense is the antithesis of reliable, but there aren't many other ways to break through ridiculously bulky bosses like final chapter Lyon (he has 75 HP, 26 def).

Cormag's most glaring weakness is his abysmal magical durability. Shadowshot gorgons in chapter 18 have just enough atk to OHKO Cormag, and it just gets worse from there on out. Cormag's flying utility, though, is way too useful to be restricted by long-range magic, and between Barrier and summons, the player has some tools at his disposal to secure Cormag's survival in these circumstances.

Much like Harken, from FE7, Eirika route Cormag has to contend with approximately a 4-turn recruitment cost, which I have also chosen to ignore for the purpose of this ranking. Unlike Harken, Cormag is overall a bit more useful because of his mounted movement and flight, and there are several maps in which having flight is a huge boon (chapters 15, 17, 18, 20, and F). It should be noted that Ephraim route Cormag is much better than his Eirika route counterpart because of an earlier join time and a relatively smaller opportunity cost of recruitment.

[Espinosa]

I've always recruited Cormag without losing turns when LTCing with growths iirc.

[General Horace]

I've always recruited Cormag without losing turns when LTCing with growths iirc.

not on Eirika Route.

even eph route would be tight

[Espinosa]

not on Eirika Route.

even eph route would be tight

I mean Eph route obv. Tana recruits Cormag on turn 2, and I dunno how you plan to complete the map before that (though knowing you, I wouldn't be surprised if you found a way to 2-turn that I could never figure out).

[Mekkah]

My attempt at guessing, not in order of top25:

* = already revealed

*Fin
Eyvel
Othin
Safy
Asvel
Rutger
Miledy
Percival
Niime
Marcus (FE7)
Heath
*Harken
Seth
Saleh
*Cormag
*Duessel
Sothe (FE10)
Haar (FE10)
Ike (FE10)
Titania (FE10)
Shiida
Lena (FE11)
Wendell (FE11)
Avatar
Palla

[Nicolas]

@up

No dancers? O RLY?

[Espinosa]

I'm really interested in seeing the order in which dancers line up (unless it's all in one place due to fulfilling the same function, akin to Mekkah's old top characters list). Warpbots, too.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Espinosa

[dondon151]

21. Pent, from FE7

Remember back when people lamented over Pent's subpar growths and complained that he couldn't cap anything at L20 on average? Well, the growths are irrelevant in this context anyway, but it's hard to believe that such an era existed. Let me put it this way: if you decided to play just one of the Fire Emblem games with 0% growths, and you picked FE7, Pent would give you the wrong impression that 0% growths playthroughs are easier than a calm stroll in the park. Almost every magic user ever wishes that he/she were Pent (though Pent wishes that he got a Warp staff much sooner).

Pent manages to achieve the rare combination of potent offense, usable durability, and much-coveted staff utility. In a game where 14 AS is sufficient to double the vast majority of enemies and resistance stats are consistently in the low single digits, Pent's 26 atk, 17 AS with Thunder ORKOs any given enemy more often than not. But it's not just the numbers that are impressive: Pent's performance at 1-range is identical to his performance at 2-range, which is one trait that makes even Harken a little green with envy. One can expect Pent to have the highest win to battle ratio in the army, though it should be noted that there are some enemies (namely, bosses) against whom Pent is utterly impotent.

Magic-using units are characteristically weak on the defensive side, and though it's true that Pent isn't as bulky as comrades like Hawkeye and Harken, Pent's 33 HP, 11 def is just slightly less physically defensive than Cormag, from FE8. FE8 does have slightly weaker enemies on the whole, but FE7's enemies should not be overestimated. Pent also has a modest avo stat and an occasionally usable A support with Louise to bolster his defensive abilities.

Finally, Pent starts with A rank staves, which among other things, lets him use Warp with a 9-tile range. Unfortunately, the primary reason why Pent isn't higher than number 21 on this list is because Warp only has utility in approximately 3 maps in FE7.

So even though Pent looks like a superb unit in a vacuum, he's stuck in a game in which his utility is somewhat hindered by a couple of factors. Beyond the poor availability of Warp, Pent's somewhat late join time puts him in competition with a plethora of prepromoted units for offensive duties. Abilities that would be amazing in any other Fire Emblem game are somehow diminished in their importance in FE7... Too bad for Pent.

Edited February 10, 2014 by dondon151

[Florete]

Remember back when people lamented over Pent's subpar growths and complained that he couldn't cap anything at L20 on average?

I don't. Did this actually happen? I remember Pent being considered a good pre-promote even among folks who hated on them - I was one of these people myself.

But yeah, Pent is pretty crazy with those bases (he doesn't even get HM boosts) and weapon levels.

[Junkhead]

I don't. Did this actually happen? I remember Pent being considered a good pre-promote even among folks who hated on them - I was one of these people myself.

Yeah, I agree. I wasn't big on pre-promotes, and I certainly didn't dislike them but I didn't use them very much because of the "CEXP leeching" stance. And I liked Pent and really respected him as good unit.

I find this thread really interesting, by the way. It has gotten me interested to try 0% growths out. Although, I am a bit curious how you say the characters characters can manage well in combat, assuming they never grow. Cormag's 33 HP/12 Def feels a bit lacking to later Mid-Game/Late game enemies.

[Refa]

Cormag's DEF is fine for the midgame when enemies generally have a lot less attack, late game enemies have a lot less accuracy although as dondon stated he is kind of garbage against magic units.

Disclaimer: I've only played till Chapter 14 0% growths on Ephraim Mode.

[Junkhead]

I'm curious about Vaida. 'dem bases...

[Refa]

Vaida has ridiculous bases and is probably pretty damn helpful from recruitment on, but I'd have a hard time believing she'd be ranked higher than Hero!Percival or Sage!Percival (now w/o HM bonuses).

[Junkhead]

What's with the re-clases? Special re-class run?

[Refa]

No, that's just my way of being silly with Harken and Pent's names because all of them (including Percival) are prepromotes who join somewhat late with ridiculous stats that are actually better than their unpromoted selves (debatable with Raven, but Harken's better with axes anyways). But yeah, I meant Harken and Pent.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Refa

[dondon151]

vaida's not on this list; she joins too late. harken joins before cog, but vaida joins during cog and doesn't do much of anything.

i might as well spoil something else. i haven't played FE9 0% growths, so there aren't any standalone units from that game on that list. sorry to those of you who looked forward to FE9 titania. she definitely deserves a spot somewhere on this list, but i wouldn't have a good idea of where to put her.

I don't. Did this actually happen? I remember Pent being considered a good pre-promote even among folks who hated on them - I was one of these people myself.

he was considered good. that didn't stop people from saying that nino and erk were better because they capped more stats.

Edited February 10, 2014 by dondon151

[Florete]

he was considered good. that didn't stop people from saying that nino and erk were better because they capped more stats.

Now that I remember happening. And I was probably guilty of it...

On another note, I actually would love to try RD with 0% growths, but I think it would be too much hassle for me to make it happen.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[dondon151]

20. Sothe, from FE10

Who would've thought that the unequivocally worst combat unit in FE9 would feature in FE10 as one of its core protagonists? Not only that, but who would've imagined him being so good? Sure, with the power of retrospect, a lot of this may have seemed obvious (but really, hindsight is 20/20).

FE10 is the only game thus far to feature a three-tier class system, and IS had to make some adjustments to the Fire Emblem formula in order to make that system work - to mixed success. The rapid increase in enemy quality over the course of FE10 presents an interesting case. While it is true that all units in 0% growths tend to peak after joining and fall off as the game progresses, nowhere is this more evident than in FE10, where a unit who steamrolls enemies in his or her joining map will conversely be steamrolled about 10 chapters later. (One should take note that for the games in which stat inflation is the greatest, i.e., FE12 and FE13, 0% runs are almost certainly an impossibility.)

Sothe illustrates this type of unit perfectly. He bursts onto the scene in chapter 1-2 with approximately double the stats of every generic enemy there, but by the time chapter 3-6 rolls around, Sothe is struggling to survive amidst the onslaught of 29 atk cats and 39 atk tigers. For the rest of the game, Sothe doesn't do much more than loiter around, maybe finding a hidden item or two. Tier 3 promotion bonuses don't even come close to making up for the gulf in stats between Sothe and the part 4 enemies.

But we can forgive him for that, if only because his early competition is so poor. From chapter 1-2 to chapter 1-5, Sothe has the best offense, the best defense, and the best movement, and no one else comes close. He's restricted to the worst weapon type in the game, but this is actually a blessing in disguise because knives provide the only forgeable 1-2 range early on and the only beast-effective weaponry. Even when stronger units join as part 1 progresses, Sothe continues to be an essential unit, in part due to his innate abilities and in part due to chapter design. Strong 1-2 range and high movement are huge assets in FE10, which is why Sothe doesn't immediately find himself out of a job when Volug, Zihark, or Tauroneo join the army.

Imagine doing part 1 without Sothe. Yeah, that will take awhile. Unfortunately, Sothe is like a child actor - peaks early, falls quickly - which is why he can't be closer to the top.

Edited February 11, 2014 by dondon151

[Xator Nova]

and people still hate him due to anti-jeigan bias (or due to being miccy's canon husband)

Cool entry. He's very useful in every playthrough.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Xator Nova

[Narga_Rocks]

and people still hate him due to anti-jeigan bias (or due to being miccy's canon husband)

Really? I thought they hated him because being amazing (in real growths) for 70% of your existence but sucking for the last 15% is a crime somehow while sucking for the first 70% and being amazing for the last 15% is somehow awesome. I guess it's similar to anti-jeigan, though.

Oh, and the belly shirt.

[RJWalker]

Even outside of 0% growths, I see people who ackwoledge that not all Jagens are bad saying he sucks. Aren't his growths good enough to carry him to end game?