Which characters did you like and why?

[Anacybele]

About Vaike, yeah, I've also seen his support with Chrom. And because of that, I have a little headcanon about him and Frederick. Vaike somehow knows a secret about some underpants Frederick has. XD (would explain why he suggested pulling down his pants as a dare lol)

I can't see the video on Firefox, I'll have to switch to Safari, but I never meant that Tiki as a character was entirely sexualized, I just feel her design in Awakening is.

[BANRYU]

You know what forget the video, it's not super necessary to explain what I'm trying to say...

The point is: maybe it is a little sexualized, but what does it matter? Sexualization doesn't necessarily always have to be a bad thing, and in Tiki's case it's very mild... (I mean, I guess not for the FE series...?) If it contributes something to the character, it doesn't have to be a bad thing.

IMO, sexualization is only bad if it is there only for the point of being sexual, like many otaku-targeting commodities in Japan do in their designs.

I just... I don't think that's what they were trying to do with Tiki. Ergo, I don't think its fair to dislike her for that reason.

Do you mean to tell me that none of the characters you like have every shown a little leg or cleavage, Anacybele? I just find it odd that you and Loki are so bothered by something that (to me, at least) really doesn't seem that bad.

[Anacybele]

A LITTLE leg or boob cleavage is fine. But imo, Tiki's is just insane. The open seam of her dress goes halfway up her waist and her cleavage goes below her boobs.

[Numot]

@Anacybele: Chrom also visits Vaike's hometown in disguise according to Vaike's support with Lissa. So he's pretty lucky that he had Emmeryn and Chrom pass by his home.

[Anacybele]

Oh, really? That's interesting. o.o

[Numot]

Vaike
Did ya know that Chrom once put on a disguise and came to my little town? Never let on 'bout who he was, even when my axe took a...dislikin' to him. I used to think royals were nothin' but puffed-up blowhards. Stick a pin in their silk-covered hides and whoosh! ...All the air runs out of 'em. But that brother of yours... He changed my mind.

Straight from the support. And Lissa eventually jokes that:

Lissa
Vaike, behind all the bluster, I think you may love Chrom more than any of us.

The Lissa/Vaike support does show a good side to Vaike imo.

[BANRYU]

A LITTLE leg or boob cleavage is fine. But imo, Tiki's is just insane. The open seam of her dress goes halfway up her waist and her cleavage goes below her boobs.

I guess I'm just confused about your standards of what you consider 'insane', then. ~___~ To me, 'a little leg or cleavage' exactly describes Tiki's Awakening outfit... TBH I think the fans are the most guilty of sexualizing Tiki out of anyone, given the much-more-blatantly-fanservice fanarts I see of her, but I guess you could say that Awakening's concept art facilitated that by going there in the first place... (Still, hentai artists will still be perverts and draw shit like that no matter how innocent the character is, so I don't know how far that point really goes.) But... *sigh* if this discussion isn't taking us anywhere then I guess I have to agree to disagree.

I'm sorry that I won't let this go... I just... I have to defend mai waifu T~T

BTW sexualized fanservice-art of Tiki makes me legitimately angry whenever I see it because the bewbs were all these idiots are taking away from such a cool character

so it's not like I don't see where you're coming from here OTL

I just disagree

Anyway yeah. Vaike is a pretty cool guy. I just did the support that Numot mentions, so that's pretty cool.

Um... At a loss to say anything else about that ._. sorry

Edited March 23, 2014 by BANRYU

[Anacybele]

Oh, I understand, Ban. I'd defend Frederick if some stupid head were to spout nonsense about him myself. Nobody does that to Freddy Bear while I'm around. ^^

Vaike might have some competition from him on that loving Chrom thing though. lol

Edited March 23, 2014 by Anacybele

[Moira]

Maribelle is a good person in most of her supports, but the bad side is thrown in your face a lot more than the supports.

[Jave]

I am another one that likes Tharja. While she does some questionable things, I still find it fascinating the way her character is written. She seems cold on the outside, but some of her supports reveal that she actually has a nice side and cares for others (Virion, Nowi, Lon'qu, Gregor). It's kind of a nice contrast, and it definitely makes her look less one-dimensional than other characters.

But then again, as I said in the other thread, I don't really hate anyone in this game. Characters I hate in this series (and heck, video games as a whole) are few and far between, probably because I don't take them TOO seriously, and I'd rather enjoy the good moments of a character instead of taking one or two bad traits and make a mountain out of a molehill. I find the experience more enjoyable that way.

Now characters I don't care about? THAT I can make a huge list of. But that's another story for another thread...

[Czar_Yoshi]

Do you mean to tell me that none of the characters you like have every shown a little leg or cleavage, Anacybele? I just find it odd that you and Loki are so bothered by something that (to me, at least) really doesn't seem that bad.

I'm not Ana, but I'll answer this: yes, there are characters I like with those... traits, but they aren't the reason I like them.

Whether or not Tiki is bad depends entirely on who you compare her to: some Dancers/Tharja/Nowi, she's quite tame. But compare that to all the females from FE5 (yes, even the Dancer), and Tiki looks absurd.

[Moira]

I'm not Ana, but I'll answer this: yes, there are characters I like with those... traits, but they aren't the reason I like them.

When you talk about characters you like and people accusew you of only liking them because of their cleavage/other sexual things is one of the most annoying things.

[BANRYU]

I am another one that likes Tharja. While she does some questionable things, I still find it fascinating the way her character is written. She seems cold on the outside, but some of her supports reveal that she actually has a nice side and cares for others (Virion, Nowi, Lon'qu, Gregor). It's kind of a nice contrast, and it definitely makes her look less one-dimensional than other characters.

But then again, as I said in the other thread, I don't really hate anyone in this game. Characters I hate in this series (and heck, video games as a whole) are few and far between, probably because I don't take them TOO seriously, and I'd rather enjoy the good moments of a character instead of taking one or two bad traits and make a mountain out of a molehill. I find the experience more enjoyable that way.

Yes exactly! There's a good deal more to Tharja than I think most people are willing to see.

And yeah, life is too short to go around hating everyone for the thoughtless writing that goes into them and stuff like that. There's really only one character in Awakening who's written in a way that downright bothers or aggravates me (but that's not a topic for this thread ~3~).

@ CzarYosh: Relative to the largely-tame and conservative designs in the rest of the series, Tiki does look a tad racy, I'll grant you that.

Thankfully, no one accused me of liking Tiki or Tharja for those reasons, so I'm grateful for that at least. ~___~

It never really occurred to me how some of my favorite characters in this game are also showing the most of their bods compared to everyone else... @___@ Well at least I can honestly say that that's not why I like them, because Olivia doesn't rank TOO highly among my favorites. xD (Although she IS adorable).

Edited March 23, 2014 by BANRYU

[Czar_Yoshi]

@ CzarYosh: Relative to the largely-tame and conservative designs in the rest of the series, Tiki does look a tad racy, I'll grant you that.

Thankfully, no one accused me of liking Tiki or Tharja for those reasons, so I'm grateful for that at least. ~___~

It never really occurred to me how some of my favorite characters in this game are also showing the most of their bods compared to everyone else... @___@ Well at least I can honestly say that that's not why I like them, because Olivia doesn't rank TOO highly among my favorites. xD (Although she IS adorable).

Well, actually the two areas Awakening majorly deviated from the norm are Berserkers and Dark Mages- Pegasi are pantsless in every game except FE5, which is why I chose it, and FE4's Dancers are pretty bad.

When you talk about characters you like and people accusew you of only liking them because of their cleavage/other sexual things is one of the most annoying things.

The concept of people giving you flak for liking things for their flaws is unfortunately far more widespread than appearance of fictional characters... But that would be off topic.

I know how both of you feel, however. I happen to have a soft spot for Nowi, but her fanbase has a stigma (that is in no small part the fault of GameFAQs, where I used to hang out a lot) that makes me not too keen on blurting it out, even though I don't care for her costume (I usually keep her as a Griffon, Sage or Bride for aesthetic purposes).

[Airship Canon]

Well, actually the two areas Awakening majorly deviated from the norm are Berserkers and Dark Mages- Pegasi are pantsless in every game except FE5, which is why I chose it, and FE4's Dancers are pretty bad.

The concept of people giving you flak for liking things for their flaws is unfortunately far more widespread than appearance of fictional characters... But that would be off topic.

I know how both of you feel, however. I happen to have a soft spot for Nowi, but her fanbase has a stigma (that is in no small part the fault of GameFAQs, where I used to hang out a lot) that makes me not too keen on blurting it out, even though I don't care for her costume (I usually keep her as a Griffon, Sage or Bride for aesthetic purposes).

Berserkers in Awakening aren't drastically different.

They've leaned towards lightly armored buff dudes who are often topless for their existence.

The skull armor is different but it's not out there. [Looks like WoW armor... (and given Chapter 1, I would NOT put it past it being a slight nod)]

Edited March 23, 2014 by Airship Canon

[BANRYU]

Hey man I ain't judging you for liking Nowi, I see the appeal. She's adorable in her own right.

Like I said earlier, the people who are the most guilty of sexualizing things most of the time are the fans, you know?

Actually though I thought Awakening's character designs deviated from the norms in nearly all the classes-- not that I mind, I think it's okay that they tried to get creative with some new stuff. (I just wish that that didn't entail going with more generic/recognizable designs for some classes like Mage and Berserker.....? But eh)

[Eail]

Considering I've always had a thing for the Tsundere type, Severa is no doubt my choice when it comes to a favorite character, though her Mother comes in a close second as well just because yes. Cordelia was the pick I had for MU on first playthrough, second time around I chose Severa.

Tiki can stay too, and Nowi. Cute girls doing cute things is a pretty big weakness of mine after all.

[TheBattyOne]

Regarding Tiki, I find it pretty easy to ignore her breast size. I usually wind up torn when it comes to character designs like hers. On the one hand, giving a female character big boobs is the easiest way to instantly sexualize her, but on the other, a character with big boobs is usually called out as sexualized whether she actually is or not. I actually think the least modest thing about Tiki's design is that slit on the side of her dress. That... goes pretty high. Unless that ribbon sash thing is covering up a thong (or something equally thin), she cannot be wearing underwear.

I don't know, I get that there ought to be fanservice so the game sells better (and I do like me some fanservice), but why is it that some people believe that a female character can't be sexy and have a compelling personality? Is it just me, or are these two things considered mutually exclusive far too often?

[Thor Odinson]

It's not mutually exclusive, but too many times the sexy is kinda just tacked on with no regards to the character's actual characterisation. Fictional characters aren't real people, and thus they don't get to pick their own warddrobes. It's up to their creator to do that and sometimes, the creator decides that maximum sexy is better than something the character would actually wear if they had the agency of choice, in whatever situation they're in. For example, someone like Emma Frost really works with the (standard) sexy without being out of character and I'm cool with her in revealing clothes as long as they're drawn like clothes and not weird bodypaint with no regards to how anatomy or fabric works, but Sif, while on the battlefield at least, should be wearing battle-suitable clothes to show that she's a warrior serious about what she does.

As far as FE:A goes, I don't think most are bothered by Olivia's outfit, because even though she's shy she's a dancer by trade and the route she picked is a bit more showy and that's okay, but Sully's lack of pants does not suit her, even though it shows a lot less skin than Olivia, as a mounted knight having no pants would chafe, and it does a disservice to her character here because she's very serious about her fighting so why would she do something that hinders it? Same goes for Cherche's open back. While I'm sure she'd look great in an open back dress off the battlefield and in a party or something, leaving that area entirely exposed is just screaming HEY ARROWS HERES A TARGET. It doesn't suit her competence and it has no place in armor design.

Sexy is not the problem by itself, but sexy without thought about how much it suits/does not suit the characters are.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Thor Odinson

[TheBattyOne]

Thor, you're right. But what I'm saying is, sometimes people tend to think that if a character is sexy, there is nothing else interesting about her. This is true in real life, too, towards all genders. See someone in revealing clothing, and you automatically assume they're less intelligent than you would have guessed if they were dressed more modestly. I have no idea why we do that, but we do. I like sex appeal. I also like practical costume design and compelling characters. All three together are not only possible, but ought to be common.

Also, and I can't stress this enough, armor needs to function as armor. That means no cleavage, no open backs, no bared midriffs, no exposed thighs if you're riding a horse (actually, let's go with never). This should be a mandatory class for video game character designers. >.>

[BANRYU]

Thank you, Thor, for much more eloquently describing that which I clumsily failed to earlier. =3=

Yes, I totally agree. It is okay for Olivia, Tharja and Tiki to show what they're showing, but it's not okay for any female armored unit to show more skin than any of the equivalent male units, especially female mounted units not wearing anything on their upper thighs-- that's a recipe for disaster of the chafingest kind. That is an instance where sexualization is pretty dumb.

As it relates to Tiki, though, I think this is okay. The Mage King pointed out to me that Tiki's role in Awakening is more motherly than in Shadow Dragon, where she's more of a little sister character-- and this is symbolized by her... well... her low neckline, and that little bit of cleavage. (Incidentally, this was also a deliberate design choice for the Sorceress from Dragon's Crown that everyone was getting their panties in a twist over a while back for being too fanservicey; George Kamitani's female necromancer characters typically have large breasts to symbolize life-giving and motherhood.) This is acceptable as symbolism, I believe.

Edited March 23, 2014 by BANRYU

[Thor Odinson]

Thor, you're right. But what I'm saying is, sometimes people tend to think that if a character is sexy, there is nothing else interesting about her. This is true in real life, too, towards all genders. See someone in revealing clothing, and you automatically assume they're less intelligent than you would have guessed if they were dressed more modestly. I have no idea why we do that, but we do. I like sex appeal. I also like practical costume design and compelling characters. All three together are not only possible, but ought to be common.

Also, and I can't stress this enough, armor needs to function as armor. That means no cleavage, no open backs, no bared midriffs, no exposed thighs if you're riding a horse (actually, let's go with never). This should be a mandatory class for video game character designers. >.>

I do think people are too judgmental IRL. Real life people are their own person and thus picked their outfits and had choice over what they want to wear so we should respect that, whether it's revealing, covered up, or anything in-between.

At least in my case, though, I judge characters separately from design. I can appreciate a character for the character, but I will still critique the fuck out of their designs if it's poorly done. But the critique is targeted more towards the creator and not the character themselves.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Thor Odinson

[Anacybele]

I don't think there should absolutely be NO fanservice, but it shouldn't be forced like it is with imo, Tharja, Nowi, and Tiki. Olivia I can give a pass on because any dancer in FE wears outfits like that, except Ninian because she's Ninian and that wouldn't make sense for her at all. Dancers in real life wear minimal clothing, so yeah. I should know, because I sort of come from a family of dancers and I once danced myself (though I could never actually do it well to save my life lol). I've seen all the costumes that my mom, aunt, and grandmother wore in their dance recitals. They would show quite a bit of skin. I'm sure my cousin will eventually be wearing stuff like that too, because she's also dancing.

Fanservice is better handled when it's more so optional content like the beach DLC. I myself won't deny that I'd love to see some official art of Frederick in nothing but swim shorts. lol He's gotta have some sexy muscles.

But I wouldn't want something like that to be shoved in my face in the main game. Not everyone would want to see it. Leave it optional for the folks who do love some Freddy fluff.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Anacybele

[Moira]

I can't really blame a company for adding stuff that makes the game sell better, but I would prefer sexualiztion to never be about fanservice and be part of a characters personality//story, while not being their main point or gimmick. If the character isnt really developed it's going to come off as fan service.

[Loki Laufeyson]

It's not mutually exclusive, but too many times the sexy is kinda just tacked on with no regards to the character's actual characterisation. Fictional characters aren't real people, and thus they don't get to pick their own warddrobes. It's up to their creator to do that and sometimes, the creator decides that maximum sexy is better than something the character would actually wear if they had the agency of choice, in whatever situation they're in. For example, someone like Emma Frost really works with the (standard) sexy without being out of character and I'm cool with her in revealing clothes as long as they're drawn like clothes and not weird bodypaint with no regards to how anatomy or fabric works, but Sif, while on the battlefield at least, should be wearing battle-suitable clothes to show that she's a warrior serious about what she does.

As far as FE:A goes, I don't think most are bothered by Olivia's outfit, because even though she's shy she's a dancer by trade and the route she picked is a bit more showy and that's okay, but Sully's lack of pants does not suit her, even though it shows a lot less skin than Olivia, as a mounted knight having no pants would chafe, and it does a disservice to her character here because she's very serious about her fighting so why would she do something that hinders it? Same goes for Cherche's open back. While I'm sure she'd look great in an open back dress off the battlefield and in a party or something, leaving that area entirely exposed is just screaming HEY ARROWS HERES A TARGET. It doesn't suit her competence and it has no place in armor design.

Sexy is not the problem by itself, but sexy without thought about how much it suits/does not suit the characters are.

I dunno, in some instances like Sharla from Xenoblade, it suits her character to be a little bit on the skimpy side when to comes to wardrobe. Like, shes not a promiscuous person, but shes the sort whos really sassy, balls-to-the-wall, but also quite sensitive. Her design reflects that.

[spoiler=Image]

Shes not even really that flirty, but the outfit makes sense. (Im not exactly so sure about the other armor she gets to wear though. Those get a bit OOC, but that goes for all of the characters since those armors get wacky as all hell. And its evenly distributed between the characters on how revealing those armors get. One of Dunban's is just ridiculous.)

For FE13, Tharja's look really DOES reflect her character. I agree about Sully cuz she could use some mail on dem thighs, but i actually do see why they designed her outfit like that. The saddest part of Sully's design is that why.

Its because she looks mannish and if no skin was shown, those designers felt that there would be no appeal to her for the player. I dont like it either but i understand it. (I do think Sully is cute enough on her own but the game designers disagree with me.) Cherche's case is rather egregious because she has appeal outside of outfit/armor design just by herself. Shes designed with a pretty face, appealing hairdo and a nice decoration (the wyvern wings) that will immediately draw in the player. The short, short wyvern wear and backless armor makes no sense. Cherche is flirty and snarky, but her quirkiness is expressed visually with the head pieces. That maid-like hairband and the wyvern wing thing.

With Nowi, i dont have a problem with her outfit cuz it expresses her childlike nature and the fact she doesnt give many fucks. It actually matches her character. Tiki's outfit makes less sense cuz shes much, much more serious in nature in this game.

(Note, brother, im not necessarily disagreeing with you, just expounding on thy post.)

I don't think there should absolutely be NO fanservice

Thats not what Lumi is saying doe. Fanservice isnt bad in and of itself. Its how its applied. Awakening isnt the only piece of work out there that has inconsistent fanservice application. Applying it to characters who have no business looking that way based on the kind of character they are. Or only applying it to female characters (Which fucking sucks when that happens. omg). There IS plenty of fanservice on the male characters in Awakening, its just not as blatant. (at least visually...) The menz are not designed in an overtly sexualized manner. While we get to get a peek of Chrom's hindquarters, some Gaius sweet spot and some Inigo open chest, it is not really a constant with them unlike the female designs. I do like the male Sorcerer design cuz its pretty revealing and matches well with the female design. But its like, the only class that does that. D:

I like fanservice if its distributed evenly. Awakening actually does attempt this, and i do give it props for trying. Its just too obvious that the female characters got dealt the heaviest hand here.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....

Man i love Cervantes.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson