Which characters did you like and why?

[Loki Laufeyson]

Or more likely, a very empty one. She's a good person to be a figurehead leader, but she has actual power, and is thus not very competent in her role. Outside of Fire Emblem, no country with her as a leader would last very long.

Even in most FE verses, Emm would have been taken down ages ago due to how ineffectual her rule was.

Elincia put on her Big Girl Panties and understood what it meant to run a country. Thus she grew as a ruler and a character.

Emmeryn lept off a cliff, left it all to Chrom (who knows fuck all), and came back wrong.

<.<

[Airship Canon]

I think Bastian was being smart, actually. He was using the element of surprise in a really interesting way. Like Ike tells Elincia at the end of Part 2, sometimes it's necessary to deceive allies in order to properly deceive enemies.

But I agree that Elincia handled things better than Emmeryn, even if I don't think even Elincia ever truly had a firm grip on her crap. She, too, fell into traps set by her enemy, since that's what got Lucia captured in the first place. But in the end, she knew she could do nothing but watch Lucia die for her country (until Ike's group shows up of course).

It's a great idea until you realize that no matter how "cunning" it seems, it did more harm than good.

Had he not forced Ike to remain under wraps, there wouldn't have been a civil war to begin with. Elincia quite literally was like "oh no, **** is going down! Better call Ike." before things got too ugly. This strategy would've avoided the war entirely!

Want a good execution of that concept (You may have to deceive your allies to deceive enemies)? Chapter 23 of Awakening. Robin pulls off deceiving everyone, even the damn player just to pull a fast one on Validar. And doesn't trigger a stupid civil war to do this.

Even in most FE verses, Emm would have been taken down ages ago due to how ineffectual her rule was.

Elincia put on her Big Girl Panties and understood what it meant to run a country. Thus she grew as a ruler and a character.

Emmeryn lept off a cliff, left it all to Chrom (who knows fuck all), and came back wrong.

<.<

Not sure how Chrom knows fuck all.

We don't exactly see how he runs things outside of time of war. He doesn't give a flying fuck about Plegia sure but he's got a country to help rebuild].

During time of war, he's pretty solid, if his policies are "I'll kick your ass". No faults there.

[Sunwoo]

I feel that Emmeryn tried to take the best qualities of Elincia, Eirika, and even Sanaki to an extent and failed HARD. As much as I admire her pacifism, it just wasn't pulled off well and she seems like she's just too willing to die and become a martyr for peace than actually suck it up and RULE her damn country. The thing is, in the previous FE games rulers have escaped their homeland so they could fight and reclaim it. Emmeryn can't even protect Ylisse because the only people who can do anything to defend the people are a solitary band of vigilantes who can't be everywhere at once. She's a good person, but a terrible ruler.

Chrom's not a very good ruler either. I'm not so concerned that he "doesn't give a flying fuck about Plegia" as I am that he (nor Basilio nor Flavia) seemed to think it was a good idea to check up on the country that they defeated sometime during the 2-year time skip. Shouldn't you guys be paying attention, and maybe say something in regards, to who Plegia is trying to crown their king? Shouldn't you at least know who this guy is before you need their money? Who the fuck is even running Ylisse and Ferox while everyone is in Valm?

And more importantly ...

Chrom, Elincia made the decision to sacrifice her sister in all but blood for the good of her country. You can't let the avatar, whom you've only known for about 2-3 years and isn't even guaranteed to be your wife (or female) choose to sacrifice him/herself for the good of the entire world and for future generations? ;/

I don't think Chrom is a very good ruler when it comes to making decisions that affect him personally.

[Skynstein]

Sincerely, if every ruler took the best course of action every time in every story, there would be no stories to tell.

[Refa]

Sincerely, if every ruler took the best course of action every time in every story, there would be no stories to tell.

Always got to hire that evil chancellor. He's probably just misunderstood!

Fake Edit: Wow, that's actually a trope. Whatever, not my fault they couldn't come up with an original name.

[TheFreshestSlice]

Chrom, Elincia made the decision to sacrifice her sister in all but blood for the good of her country. You can't let the avatar, whom you've only known for about 2-3 years and isn't even guaranteed to be your wife (or female) choose to sacrifice him/herself for the good of the entire world and for future generations? ;/

Do keep in mind that by this point, Chrom has tried to be Emmeryn Jr. for going on 3 years +. I definitely don't condone it, but that's something.

Sincerely, if every ruler took the best course of action every time in every story, there would be no stories to tell.

Um, not necessarily. This implies that when a ruler makes the right choice, no one else will be acting in kind.

[PuffPuff]

Yen'fay.

Seriously, this guy deserves more love.

Yes.

I would not say, that Emmeryn is not intelligent. Her main weakness might be, that she is pacifist.

In my opinion the difference between Emmeryn and Elincia is, that Emmeryn is pacifist (only related to mainstory) and Elincia tries to be it. But it failed, because Elincia is swamped about the abuses, so she has to fight and send the CKs. Emmeryn´s decissions might not be smart, but she tries with all one´s might to prevent a war.

She was blisfully unaware that Gangrel is one of those fellas that only can be answered with steel. He even said that about Chrom when he changed the moment Emmeryn sacrificed herself.

Taking matters into your own hand is not a sign of a good ruler. Knowing your own limitations and realizing that your subordinates can just as easily be your betters in certain things is. Also, being female has nothing to do with this really. Female or male, you can hardly let your morals stand between you and protecting your people. Ylisse hardly even has a standing army because, "Peace." I like that she sticks by her morals. I like her kindhearted nature, but that only goes so far. There's a point where it needs to stop. The dead care little for peace that one pretends is there.

That's why that we have Chrom and Cordelia.

Regarding Yen'fay, he is awesome as well, forgot to mention him.

*sigh*

I can't belive that no one is mentioning about him when he has done an honorable thing and tries his absolute best to hide it under any circumstances. So...*Sigh. Brushes hair away from face* I'll flat out say it.

That actually came from another time period.

He can forsee the danger that is what made him a great advisory.

How would he expect to know compassion when he has never showed it himself after field were burned, both Say'ri and Yen's parents were murdered and going under the man's wing who is responsible for their parents death and knowing it, but went under his wing anyway. It's as if he has nothing to lose.

He came from Lucina's time that he actually foresaw what was going to happen in Chrom's era.

His sacrifice to protect his beloved kin always has been honorable even though he casted aside his honor and pride. There still was no telling as to why that he fought for Walhart as his reason die with him. Pheros only wanted to see Walhart end everything only because she was formerly of Emmeryn's acadamy teachings. She had nothing to lose after Emmeryn sacrificed herself as them two has always been very close. Yen only kept his mouth shut about protecting his beloved kin, Say'ri is only because she would join the frey and get cut up to bloody pieces by Chrom.

As she already died in his time from the future as he was actually trying to prevent that outcome at any cost even in death. When Say'ri found out this truth by the snake in the grass Excellus, she broke out and cried. -.-

Emmeryn is like "hi i am perfect and nice and caring even to evil people i'm going to go jump off a cliff in a super long cutscene to make you "sad" even though i've had literally no development or character or whatever lol"

That's why she is so awesome!

Even Chrom, Lissa, Mustafa, and Gangrel made a turnaround of her example.

Mustafa questioned on what exactly he was fighting for after her sacrifice.

Chrom changed and became more like her after her sacrifice.

Gangrel became a straight changed man after his defeat and turned over a new leaf on Pirate Isle and she even made him break down comforting him.

Lissa became stronger willed like her after her sacrifice.

...And Gangrel's men slowly fell apart one by one leaving only the most loyal ones to fight after her sacrifice.

She killed herself, because she cannot succumb to a bloody civil war. She didn't realize that fighting for a better future is the same as what she did, but she can't stand picking up a weapon or having her people pick up one.

Elincia is a better ruler than Emm. Elincia sought to avoid war, but knew that when it came time to fight, to ****ing fight, not blunder into a trap.

Yes.

Pasifism isn't the answer when people who won't listen to reason is trampling all over your garden(Land) ravishing destruction.

I think Bastian was being smart, actually. He was using the element of surprise in a really interesting way. Like Ike tells Elincia at the end of Part 2, sometimes it's necessary to deceive allies in order to properly deceive enemies.

But I agree that Elincia handled things better than Emmeryn, even if I don't think even Elincia ever truly had a firm grip on her crap. She, too, fell into traps set by her enemy, since that's what got Lucia captured in the first place. But in the end, she knew she could do nothing but watch Lucia die for her country (until Ike's group shows up of course).

Made her a true hero to sacrifice her milk sister to keep Ludvick locked up tight.

True, she's a good face for Ylisse, but by no means is anyone that I would give political control to during a time of crisis. Chrom may be more hot headed, but I much prefer his style of leadership to Emmeryn, who let such things continue in the haildom for many years. I think even Emmeryn knows/knew that. .

She did.

But...she didn't want to succumb to that behavior.

Even in most FE verses, Emm would have been taken down ages ago due to how ineffectual her rule was.

Elincia put on her Big Girl Panties and understood what it meant to run a country. Thus she grew as a ruler and a character.

Emmeryn lept off a cliff, left it all to Chrom (who knows fuck all), and came back wrong.

<.<

She truely is a pacifict to the end is why that she is so awesome!

I feel that Emmeryn tried to take the best qualities of Elincia, Eirika, and even Sanaki to an extent and failed HARD. As much as I admire her pacifism, it just wasn't pulled off well and she seems like she's just too willing to die and become a martyr for peace than actually suck it up and RULE her damn country. The thing is, in the previous FE games rulers have escaped their homeland so they could fight and reclaim it. Emmeryn can't even protect Ylisse because the only people who can do anything to defend the people are a solitary band of vigilantes who can't be everywhere at once. She's a good person, but a terrible ruler.

Your right.

She's the only one who didn't run away like Marth and the others did. Made her a true pixie of peace and prosperity.

1. Do keep in mind that by this point, Chrom has tried to be Emmeryn Jr. for going on 3 years +. I definitely don't condone it, but that's something.

2. Um, not necessarily. This implies that when a ruler makes the right choice, no one else will be acting in kind.

1. Is why that he is so dashing and deserving to wear that white cape. <33

2. Correct.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Dark_Huntress

[Czar_Yoshi]

Pardon me for using a real-world parallel, but Neville Chamberlain did exactly the same thing as Emmeryn (refused to use force to deal with an angry and dangerous nation that was the subject of a previous campaign of questionable morals by his nation until they became powerful enough to wreck the continent), and history doesn't remember him fondly for it.

Your right.

She's the only one who didn't run away like Marth and the others did. Made her a true pixie of peace and prosperity.

Marth's sister didn't run, and got kidnapped by Gharnef for it. What did it do for her nation? Nothing. Marth and all the other displaced lords eventually returned to save their country, too.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Want a good execution of that concept (You may have to deceive your allies to deceive enemies)? Chapter 23 of Awakening. Robin pulls off deceiving everyone, even the damn player just to pull a fast one on Validar. And doesn't trigger a stupid civil war to do this.

You call that good? That was a massive Ass Pull. Had there been any foreshadowing other than that stupid dream sequence during the beginning of the game, it may have been passable.

I feel that Emmeryn tried to take the best qualities of Elincia, Eirika, and even Sanaki to an extent and failed HARD. As much as I admire her pacifism, it just wasn't pulled off well and she seems like she's just too willing to die and become a martyr for peace than actually suck it up and RULE her damn country. The thing is, in the previous FE games rulers have escaped their homeland so they could fight and reclaim it. Emmeryn can't even protect Ylisse because the only people who can do anything to defend the people are a solitary band of vigilantes who can't be everywhere at once. She's a good person, but a terrible ruler.

Chrom's not a very good ruler either. I'm not so concerned that he "doesn't give a flying fuck about Plegia" as I am that he (nor Basilio nor Flavia) seemed to think it was a good idea to check up on the country that they defeated sometime during the 2-year time skip. Shouldn't you guys be paying attention, and maybe say something in regards, to who Plegia is trying to crown their king? Shouldn't you at least know who this guy is before you need their money? Who the fuck is even running Ylisse and Ferox while everyone is in Valm?

And more importantly ...

Chrom, Elincia made the decision to sacrifice her sister in all but blood for the good of her country. You can't let the avatar, whom you've only known for about 2-3 years and isn't even guaranteed to be your wife (or female) choose to sacrifice him/herself for the good of the entire world and for future generations? ;/

I don't think Chrom is a very good ruler when it comes to making decisions that affect him personally.

This. So much this. Small wonder Ylisse still stands.

She killed herself, because she cannot succumb to a bloody civil war.

Because shes weak. This is not something you want out of the person running your country. Its odd that Virion does run from his nation to save his people and they all hate him for it. (but they didnt die~) And he went to find aid to take back his nation from Walhart. Sounds like most FE Lords...Why is Chrom the Lord again?

Lissa for Exalt 2014~

Edited April 11, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson

[LuxSpes]

Because shes weak. This is not something you want out of the person running your country. Its odd that Virion does run from his nation to save his people and they all hate him for it. (but they didnt die~) And he went to find aid to take back his nation from Walhart. Sounds like most FE Lords...Why is Chrom the Lord again?

Lissa for Exalt 2014~

Fan picture of an older Lissa acting as Regent Queen after Chrom's death

Couldn't find the original source(the link says the tumblr isn't found, so I'll post where I found it as a reblog)

[BrightBow]

It's a great idea until you realize that no matter how "cunning" it seems, it did more harm than good.

Had he not forced Ike to remain under wraps, there wouldn't have been a civil war to begin with. Elincia quite literally was like "oh no, **** is going down! Better call Ike." before things got too ugly. This strategy would've avoided the war entirely!

Want a good execution of that concept (You may have to deceive your allies to deceive enemies)? Chapter 23 of Awakening. Robin pulls off deceiving everyone, even the damn player just to pull a fast one on Validar. And doesn't trigger a stupid civil war to do this.

Robin's plan is better then Bastian's? Now, I am aware that there were some flaws in Part 2's logic. But in Robin's case, literally every step of the plan is made of stupid.

-First, if everybody believed Basillo to be dead, how did Robin manage to contact him?

-Why did Basillo play dead since Valm anyway? It's not like anyone could have known that this would come in handy someday.

-If Vallidar is so omnipresent, he knows what every member of the party does at all times and therefore nobody in the party could have meddled with the Emblem, then how could he not have noticed that Robin was contacting Basilio?

He would have either observed the individual members like he claimed, in which case he would have known that Basilio was still alive when Robin contacted him. Or he would have observed the Emblem itself, in which case even Basilio couldn't have switched it without being noticed.

-How could Robin have known what the extend of Validar's power is, so she could actually plan around it?

-But most importantly, her plan still depends on the fact that Validar does not manage to control her. And there is litterally no reason given why it shouldn't work. It simply didn't when he tried it.

The first time I played that chapter, I actually restarted my 3DS and changed the language to English because this was so transparently stupid that it had to be something that the translators screwed up. Turns out they didn't. IS really does have this little respect for the intelligence of the people that give them their money.

And btw, where did Robin get a convincing fake from on such short notice anyway? Vallidar must have known how the original looked like because he supposedly had his eyes everywhere and was in possession of the Dark Sphere to compare it to. So getting a convincing fake wouldn't have been easy.

Overall, Bastian's plan has a lot more sense to it.

Besides, you are underestimating the situation in Crimea. There is no guarantee that Ike being visibly siding with Elincia would have actually stopped the rebellion. And even if Ludvek wouldn't have made his move, he was going to be a problem as long as he lived. Time was working for him. The unhappiness with the queen would have made him more and more influential among the nobles and the general population. The situation had to be resolved in some way before he became to powerful to be stopped.

As I said before, there are logical problems with Bastian's plan. Most importantly is that Bastian kept Elincia out of the loop. There is no justification for that. But at least those logical compromises allowed to tell a good character story for Elincia.

Elincia had been a mere plot device in PoR in order to give the real hero a reason to fight against Daein. But just like with Pelleas, it wasn't her as the future ruler who everyone loved and respected but her champion. In other words, Ike.

There are so many stories that end when the hero defeated the villain and helped the princess to the throne. Part 2 in Radiant Dawn was a story of that princess actually proving herself worthy of being the ruler after becoming a Queen. About her growing into a person that can actually protect her people herself. Elincia's story was complete when she decided to sacrifice her sister to protect her country. Everything that happened afterwards, including Bastian's entire plan, wasn't important for that story.

In contrast to that, there is no point to all that stupidity in Robin's story. Like I said, Vailidar's control simply didn't work. There was no character development that allowed Robin to change the course of destiny. There wasn't even a visible struggle. The game doesn't even bother to claim that the power of bonds made it possible. Which shouldn't have worked anyway, since from what we see Robin was just as close to Chrom in the other timeline. And that didn't stop her from killing him there. The story is just a collection of random events devoid of any logic or purpose. And that part was no exception.

Edit:

Sorry, this really ended up being way too long for something that adresses something that was only vaguely connected to the topic in the first place.

Edited April 11, 2014 by BrightBow

[PuffPuff]

Pardon me for using a real-world parallel, but Neville Chamberlain did exactly the same thing as Emmeryn (refused to use force to deal with an angry and dangerous nation that was the subject of a previous campaign of questionable morals by his nation until they became powerful enough to wreck the continent), and history doesn't remember him fondly for it.

Marth's sister didn't run, and got kidnapped by Gharnef for it. What did it do for her nation? Nothing. Marth and all the other displaced lords eventually returned to save their country, too.

Retreating is a sane course of action. Yes.

But...Marth had to do what he did, or he and his companions would be killed by King Jiol.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Dark_Huntress

[Czar_Yoshi]

While we're poking at Cht.23, I seem to recall Grima stating there that since he's from the future, he'll disappear if it's averted, which contradicts the multiple-timelines stuff in Future Past.

[Sunwoo]

While we're poking at Cht.23, I seem to recall Grima stating there that since he's from the future, he'll disappear if it's averted, which contradicts the multiple-timelines stuff in Future Past.

To be fair, it sounds as if no one has ever tried to time travel before Lucina and the others did, so Grima wouldn't have known how things work after you change the past.

[Kokone Kirino]

The OP says only talk about the characters you do like. It says nothing about not being able to criticize them, and it also says nothing about only talking about the positive parts of a character.

"As of 3/20/14 this thread follows the principle of 'if you don't have anything nice to say, then clap your freakin' lid.' "

It wasn't exactly bashing, but not all of the posts really followed this principle.

[TheFreshestSlice]

"As of 3/20/14 this thread follows the principle of 'if you don't have anything nice to say, then clap your freakin' lid.' "

It wasn't exactly bashing, but not all of the posts really followed this principle.

Again, that says nothing about not giving criticism. Also, the point of that statement is likely not to bring up characters you don't like. Responding to someone else will always be free game as far as I'm concerned.

[Kokone Kirino]

Again, that says nothing about not giving criticism. Also, the point of that statement is likely not to bring up characters you don't like. Responding to someone else will always be free game as far as I'm concerned.

Meh, that's arguable. If the point is to talk about characters one likes, responding to someone else that their liked character sucks in order to be able to criticize said character is kinda cheating. But whatever, noone seemingly cared about my first statement anyways.

[BANRYU]

Actually, I've kind of been enjoying following such a heated conversation. .3. However...

Meh, that's arguable. If the point is to talk about characters one likes, responding to someone else that their liked character sucks in order to be able to criticize said character is kinda cheating. But whatever, noone seemingly cared about my first statement anyways.

This bolded statement is something we ARE trying to avoid. I'm not 100% certain who exactly this is aimed at, but do keep in mind that that is not really the purpose of a thread like this. If anything, identifying and analyzing the character flaws seems like a more constructive activity that could be done in that other, usually-more-negative thread. *shrug*

[Loki Laufeyson]

Fan picture of an older Lissa acting as Regent Queen after Chrom's death

Couldn't find the original source(the link says the tumblr isn't found, so I'll post where I found it as a reblog)

This is yes. This is very yes.

To get back on topic, i love Lissa a lot. I think her inquisitive mind and sweet nature allows her to be a very warm and wonderful person. She comes to all sorts of adorable (if not a bit naive) conclusions about stuff but she also knows when shit isnt right. Older Lissa would be Best Exalt. Cuz her naivety would fade quite a bit.

Snip

For once, mate, i agree with you totally.

[Baldrick]

"As of 3/20/14 this thread follows the principle of 'if you don't have anything nice to say, then clap your freakin' lid.' "

It wasn't exactly bashing, but not all of the posts really followed this principle.

If you feel that strongly about it, the discussion could be taken to another thread. This thread will be a lot less interesting, though.

For once, mate, i agree with you totally.

I remember when I used to consider Part 2 the weakest section because it was short and disconnected from the rest of the plot... it's arguably the best plotline in the entire series because it deconstructs the fairytale "I defeated the enemy and took the throne, now everything is OK forever" ending most games in the series have. (Mystery of the Emblem doesn't qualify because it recycled the story of the first game with a contrived plot twist to make it happen).

And also:

Could you cast aside your weapon while surrounded by armed soldiers?

[Loki Laufeyson]

I remember when I used to consider Part 2 the weakest section because it was short and disconnected from the rest of the plot... it's arguably the best plotline in the entire series because it deconstructs the fairytale "I defeated the enemy and took the throne, now everything is OK forever" ending most games in the series have. (Mystery of the Emblem doesn't qualify because it recycled the story of the first game with a contrived plot twist to make it happen).

Agreed, I was the same way until i really looked at Part 2. I saw it as ok but more of a Big Lipped Alligator Moment. This was before i read A Song Of Ice and Fire which deals with the same situations. (Deconstructing the idea of "take (back) a land, everything lives happily ever after") Going back and playing through Part 2 had me going "WHY DOES IT END? D:" loool

It also shows how cool it is to see Elincia grow some balls.

But yeah. Lissa for Exalt. I root for it.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I remember when I used to consider Part 2 the weakest section because it was short and disconnected from the rest of the plot... it's arguably the best plotline in the entire series because it deconstructs the fairytale "I defeated the enemy and took the throne, now everything is OK forever" ending most games in the series have. (Mystery of the Emblem doesn't qualify because it recycled the story of the first game with a contrived plot twist to make it happen).

And also:

Arvis defeated his enemies and took the throne and everything was most definitely not OK forever, despite his intentions.

Regarding that Zelgius quote, it's funny how that's actually a really good strategy in Lunatic+.

[ViewtifulBo]

Sthal's pretty much my favorite character in Awakening due to the fact that he's nothing special but he does whatever he can for his comrades no matter how little. Always there to lend a hand or an ear and is very empathetic and kind. Doesn't really have a dream of his own but wants to help others fufill theirs. Just all in all, a good person and an irreplaceable friend. I identify with him much because he is alot like myself.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Stahl is awesome because hes actually really bloody useful in Lunatic mode. Yes. Plus hes an onion. <3

[BANRYU]

I found Stahl to be a really relatable dude also. At first I was like 'oh this guy's just the standard bland nice guy' but nah, he had some dimension to him.