Why can't Chrom pair with Miriel and Tharja

[Sasori]

I thought it was a shame that Miriel and Chrom couldn't marry. I bet their marriage would be hilariously awful since they're such a bad match from what I can see.

As for Sumia. I did't really care much for her, but I thought she could use more marriage options. She was pretty limited in that regard and I did't like reserving one character for her. I don't think her Shyness is a valid reason either since Olivia can support with every male.

[Airship Canon]

I thought it was a shame that Miriel and Chrom couldn't marry. I bet their marriage would be hilariously awful since they're such a bad match from what I can see.

As for Sumia. I did't really care much for her, but I thought she could use more marriage options. She was pretty limited in that regard and I did't like reserving one character for her. I don't think her Shyness is a valid reason either since Olivia can support with every male.

As a point, Olivia also happens to suggest to Inigo that the best way to get over shyness is to talk to the opposite gender- and as such is responsible for his horrible flirty attitude.

So... the Olivia point sorta flops around like a dead fish.

[TheFreshestSlice]

The real reason that Sumia has limited supports is because the developers wanted her to; whether it's because they wanted to encourage players to pair her with Chrom or whatever, the reasons have nothing to do with Sumia herself, so disparaging her for something she doesn't have control over is stupid.

I'm relatively new to Awakening, and new to these boards, but I was under the impression that this was a video game. Using this logic, we can't hate or like anything because no one controls themselves out of what IS gave them. I doubt it has anything to do with Sumia being attractive to the other male characters, but it most certainly has everything to do with Sumia herself, since it's about Sumia herself. Anacybele doesn't like her, who cares why? We can go into all kind of social implications, but in the end, you attacking her for her statements about how she finds a video game character insulting, is pointless, even if there seems to be a game made out of this here, I've seen. Her comment was insensitive, sure, but I guess I'm among the few people here that doesn't find broad generalizations with video game characters worthy of saying anything more than don't make a broad generalization about real life. If this is the worst thing you've read in a while, then you're missing a great big world out there.

As for the actual topic: Chrom and Tharja wouldn't work because Tharja discovers the affair between him and the MU that is present across all playthroughs. Chrom and Miriel wouldn't work because Chrom's ability to somehow fly defies all the laws of logic in the universe.

[ZemZem]

Personally I find klutzy/ditzy girls appealing.

[Airship Canon]

I'm relatively new to Awakening, and new to these boards, but I was under the impression that this was a video game. Using this logic, we can't hate or like anything because no one controls themselves out of what IS gave them. I doubt it has anything to do with Sumia being attractive to the other male characters, but it most certainly has everything to do with Sumia herself, since it's about Sumia herself. Anacybele doesn't like her, who cares why? We can go into all kind of social implications, but in the end, you attacking her for her statements about how she finds a video game character insulting, is pointless, even if there seems to be a game made out of this here, I've seen. Her comment was insensitive, sure, but I guess I'm among the few people here that doesn't find broad generalizations with video game characters worthy of saying anything more than don't make a broad generalization about real life. If this is the worst thing you've read in a while, then you're missing a great big world out there.

Bingo. But hey, dealing with a Tumblr native there. That site, and the majority of those that hail from there, well, are pretty known for being irate, and of course, no nay saying. Can't say something sucks because it sucks, because no dissenting opinions allowed.

Frankly, the entire ordeal there was summed up perfectly by -Cynthia-, and hell me and Cynthia are amongst the last people who'd take Ana's side in anything. [Even if I'm starting to grow more tired of "attack Ana" and completely derail every topic she's involved in than whatever she's said of late.]

[XeKr]

moderators plz BibleThump

To me, it depends on if you read Anacybele’s original statement as a joke (still in bad taste, insensitive, etc), or reflective of her actual opinion of women (i.e. the traits that characterize Sumia are inherently undesirable. The implications here are subtlety different than insulting Sumia herself).

I dunno, in general I find statements that show notable lack of empathy to be mildly disturbing, and I’m completely fine with calling people out on it (particularly if they have a history of not recognizing it as such, as some previous posts seem to suggest).

Re: Miriel/Tharja. Along with the reasonable answers itt why Chrom might not be interested in them, otoh neither of the two seem to be the type interested in Chrom. Sure maybe that applies for other pairings, but Chrom has like, lordly duties, responsibilities, and stuff. Avatar still gonna Avatar tho

EDIT: oops, legitimately can't spell

Edited March 30, 2014 by XeKr

[Jedi]

Bingo. But hey, dealing with a Tumblr native there. That site, and the majority of those that hail from there, well, are pretty known for being irate, and of course, no nay saying. Can't say something sucks because it sucks, because no dissenting opinions allowed.

Frankly, the entire ordeal there was summed up perfectly by -Cynthia-, and hell me and Cynthia are amongst the last people who'd take Ana's side in anything. [Even if I'm starting to grow more tired of "attack Ana" and completely derail every topic she's involved in than whatever she's said of late.]

says the guy who outright attacked Lucina/Gerome shippers in a thread. You are impossible to ever take seriously

[ZemZem]

You guys do realize what Ana said was pretty fucking insensitive, right? It wasn't about what she said about Sumia at all. It was the fact she said women with klutzy tendencies and aren't the smartest people around aren't desirable in any way possible.

[Balcerzak]

Today I learned "few men would marry" == "no desirable qualities at all". Holy shit guys, stop blowing this way out of proportion. Nothing in Ana's comments should have been offensive enough to hurt anyone's feelings to a degree warranting the level of backlash. Crowding up on her and white-knighting for someone with too thin of skin was in no way necessary. This sort of 'meta' discussion strays even farther from the topic than the comment that spawned it, and I would really like to see it stop.

That is all.

[TheFreshestSlice]

You guys do realize what Ana said was pretty fucking insensitive, right? It wasn't about what she said about Sumia at all. It was the fact she said women with klutzy tendencies and aren't the smartest people around aren't desirable in any way possible.

I was responding to what someone said, not to Ana herself. I don't think anyone denied that it was insensitive, especially considering I said it was insensitive. Either way, she's already clarified herself, and she most certainly did not even start saying the they were desirable in no way possible. She said to few at first, which is not true, but still. She meant to the extreme,

/nitpicking because everyone else is

Personally I find klutzy/ditzy girls appealing.

So do I, but I'd think twice about someone who handed me a beehive. Even with that, I don't have a problem with Sumia.

[Airship Canon]

says the guy who outright attacked Lucina/Gerome shippers in a thread. You are impossible to ever take seriously

I attack the pairing on a regular basis- it's bad and that's about it. The shippers on the other hand, nope.

See before.

[Moira]

I can totally see Chrom x Miriel. But it would have to involve some heavy writing that was done real well (of course you could probably make anyone work with really good writing)

As for Tharja, they would have to completely change her so that Lucina wouldn't grow up as an abused child who needs some therapy to get through her horrid childhood.

Edited March 30, 2014 by n00srac

[shadowofchaos]

Speaking frankly, this thread is basically this:

Except with more implications.

People have the right to express their opinions on fictional characters and whether or not the traits of these characters make them desirable marriage partners or not. It's unfortunate that people take offense to this, but insulting a character you relate to is not a personal attack.

To me, it depends on if you read Anabycele’s original statement as a joke (still in bad taste, insensitive, etc), or reflective of her actual opinion of women (i.e. the traits that characterize Sumia are inherently undesirable. The implications here are subtlety different than insulting Sumia herself).

The problem with is with Ana is that she tends to be very opinionated and proud of her own values and views of characters that any interpretation to the otherwise gets met with "they're being mean to me for an unpopular opinion". There's more under the surface there than just "having a view of a fictional character". Going off her posts in the past and the ones in this thread:

Now you're going against me too? Wow. Just wow. Now I'm officially getting ticked off. Not at you entirely, but because people who I thought were my FRIENDS are once again proving that they really don't give a damn. And YOU of all people even said you were in love with me. But both you and Sangyul, I thought were cool people that I could call my friends. I guess not. I'm sick of this happening to me. And I thought I could prevent it from happening again. I thought I had learned my lesson way back in high school after how many times other students took advantage of my trust. But again, I guess not. Maybe the only answer is to remain alone...

I find it absolutely childish and dramatic that she'd have such a view of people she "considered friends" or even a person she thought was in love with her. It makes me sick to my stomach that she'd have such a twisted view of "trust", especially considering Cynthia's statement of it as a simple view of desireable marriage qualities of a fictional character. "Oh no, no one understands me. I'll always be forever alone." No, there's more to it than that, and I'm not just someone who's choosing to see something that is not there. She didn't mean it as a joke... She took it *VERY* personally.

Having such a passion for the dislike of a certain character is cool. However, taking every opportunity to "prove" to the world how useless a characters (I can cite them) shows more of an underlying motive there. And if that's the case, how much will it take to cross the line from fictional characters to views in the real world?

No matter how people try to sever their "connections" towards fictional characters, there will always be something there. The question, is how much you're going to let it show. And judging simply from her posts here, it's clear enough what her views are so much that people called her out on it, despite her trying to "salvage" it.

Her statement with Sumia is more or less equivalent if I said, "Chrom can't marry Tharja because no one would ever want a child abuser being queen of a country."

There are no savestates. Whatever you post that enough people see, will show your true character. What about me? What can you tell about me in this post? Did I cross the line? That's the question I ask myself every time.

If I did step out of line, mods... feel free to warn me. I honestly feel like derailing the thread for this post and explain my views on this situation was worth the risk of any warn.

Edited March 30, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[SoulSilver]

I think miriel would be a great queen, she is the smartest sheperd and could guide chrom with his Kingdom.

(I also think she is smarter than robin xp)

[Faye]

Ana's little comment about Sumia certainly hit too close to home for me, too. The way Sumia feels is how I feel all the time; feeling stupid and clumsy, wanting to be someone else, wanting to try so hard to help, but only makes things worse, honest-to-god ditzy and slow on the uptake, unaware of many things. Even with the exaggeration for the sake of comedy, Sumia feels very realistic to me. Commenting on this is worth a potential warn; saying things like that is NOT okay at all, Ana. You're one of the most opinionated people I've ever met. You ALWAYS pull the victim card and whine "it's just my opinion everyone is attacking me" card every time you're called out. It's severely irritating.

It's not a matter of being "too thin-skinned" when a fictional character is inappropriately insulted. We relate to and feel close to fictional characters because they're a reflection of ourselves. And when bullshit like "lol sumia is just too stupid and clumsy to attract a man" is said, it feels like a general statement, that ALL "clumsy and stupid" women aren't loveable. Hearing things like that in real life hurts; why shouldn't it also hurt when reading it online? And really, Ana, who is one of Sumia's marriage companions? Your precious Freddy Bear. Clearly Frederick is a better man, willing to see past Sumia's flaws and love her as she is; he finds her endearing and helps her try and become a better person. Seriously, it feels like you irrationally hate Sumia because of Frederick.

As for the actual topic...

I think Miriel is a bit older than Chrom, at least to me. D: Chrom is like 17-19 pre-timeskip, right? I always saw Miriel in her early to mid-twenties. Maybe Chrom isn't into older women, I dunno.

And Tharja...well, I got nothing.

[Sunwoo]

I used to think that Chrom was 20 or so before the timeskip, but apparently he's 18-19 before the time skip so it's possible that Miriel isn't even THAT much older than Chrom. Maybe she's 19-20 or something, or younger? I don't know, a lot of the characters in Awakening are apparently very unrealistically young (Lissa being 14 pre-timeskip, putting Donnel at 13-14 and Ricken at maybe 11-13 pre-timeskip), so aside from Frederick, Gregor, and Cherche (I think her age was "implied" to be around 25+ in Japanese conversations) it's possible that everyone is a lot younger than we expect.

Basically, the only explanation I can think of for Chrom not marrying Miriel is that she's not from a noble family, and that feMU and Olivia he can fall for so hard he goes "fuck that they're not nobles, marrying them anyway".

[TheFreshestSlice]

It's not a matter of being "too thin-skinned" when a fictional character is inappropriately insulted. We relate to and feel close to fictional characters because they're a reflection of ourselves. And when bullshit like "lol sumia is just too stupid and clumsy to attract a man" is said, it feels like a general statement, that ALL "clumsy and stupid" women aren't loveable. Hearing things like that in real life hurts; why shouldn't it also hurt when reading it online? And really, Ana, who is one of Sumia's marriage companions? Your precious Freddy Bear. Clearly Frederick is a better man, willing to see past Sumia's flaws and love her as she is; he finds her endearing and helps her try and become a better person. Seriously, it feels like you irrationally hate Sumia because of Frederick.

But she didn't even say those things. I don't know her, but you commenting on how you think she feels passed on past experiences using a current comment is hardly fair, now is it? First, she never said Sumia couldn't attract anyone, she said FEW, emphasis on few because that doesn't mean none in the slightest, in fact it probably means less than otherwise if anything, would want to marry, which last I checked doesn't equal love in the slightest, you can most certainly love someone with all of your heart and not want to marry them. Don't really know here, but from what I've read, she's pretty...vocal. However, responding just as extreme as she does, doesn't make the situation any better, responding worse doesn't either.

I get identifying with a character as well. Still, they aren't reflections of you, I'm sorry to say. They are reflections of ideas that IS thought people would like. IS wasn't thinking of how you felt and said, "Yep, there's a character." When the day is done, these aren't real people, and they will never be as complicated as real people, nor will they hold a similar meaning when being discussed as real people. Sumia is two things, words and triangles. She doesn't represent anything more than words and triangles, and she does not stand for anything more than words and triangles. She will always be words and triangles; do not take such things personally. It's okay to dislike how a character is designed. I think it's irrational, but I'm not going to pretend that someone should feel bad when they don't like a fictional idea.

And finally to the Fredrick thing, I was actually thinking of saying something similar until I came back to all of these responses.

[shadowofchaos]

I get identifying with a character as well. Still, they aren't reflections of you, I'm sorry to say. They are reflections of ideas that IS thought people would like. IS wasn't thinking of how you felt and said, "Yep, there's a character." When the day is done, these aren't real people, and they will never be as complicated as real people, nor will they hold a similar meaning when being discussed as real people. Sumia is two things, words and triangles. She doesn't represent anything more than words and triangles, and she does not stand for anything more than words and triangles. She will always be words and triangles; do not take such things personally. It's okay to dislike how a character is designed. I think it's irrational, but I'm not going to pretend that someone should feel bad when they don't like a fictional idea.

Dismissing them as "just characters" is a valid point.

However, we are people. And while identifying with them doesn't necessarily reflect you... there is the implication that we as people are affected by characters, or any semblances of human beings. They way we treat those semblances are a reflection of our preferences in dealing with actual human beings. Deny it as you might, but that's pretty true.

It only takes a little bit for her hatred (there's no denying this) and view that Sumia is less deserving of love because of her quirks to someone in the real world with similar quirks, but is obviously more complicated than a tropy game character. This is why so many responses on this thread were so heated.

People are a hell of a lot more complicated than the characters in Awakening... hell, they're pretty much walking tropes.

But there is an implication here in regards to Ana. While you might argue on wording here, but the intent there is pretty clear. She's trying to paint Sumia as the very pinnacle of useless and pathetic at every opportunity, thus being less deserving of support by other characters (and implicitly, love and marriage of the men in the game). There's no "joke" in there despite the ":P".

This post might not make any difference in your view of people should just get thicker skin because they feel they're being indirectly bashed through a fictional character...

Hell, I'm not so much bothered by that, rather than the her view of friendships and people.

People who she considered her friends called her out for something this forum views as debatable, consdering how we can wave off Sumia as a fictional character.

She felt betrayed just because other people viewed her actions as in the wrong.

That is what I find a problem with.

"I thought I could call you my friends".

Dismissing friends like that so easily just because they're trying to correct you really irritates me.

Edited March 31, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[TheFreshestSlice]

Well I'm not going to deny that, I don't know her as I said, but saying, "You said this," and, "You meant this," are different. Either way, her reasons for hating a character are irrelevant, and no one should take it as proof that she's any of the much more hurtful things used to describe her in this tread. Yeah, her way of acting is childish and very immature, but when people say things like some is too far gone, or that they have said some of the worst things they have read in a long time because they said few people would want to marry someone like that, it's time to stop, I think, and reflect because that too is crossing the line, is all I'm saying. As to how someone feels when another character is insulted, I don't think you should get thicker skin, I think you should ignore it because it doesn't matter at all to anyone unless you let it. Feel insulted all you want, but letting how they feel about something make you feel a certain way, especially someone you always think is being muhahahahahturrible on the interwebz is just....silly. I think anyway.

I think Sumia is a great character, despite her quarks, hell...for her quarks, and very deserving of love from anyone, and I've already expressed my own doubts that it has anything to do with how men may or may not feel about her. Someone making yet another comment about how awful they are is ignoble at worst should be ignored. Don't need to write out an essay of how they are hellspawn.

As to her take on friendship, not touching that, because I know nothing about friendship.

[Moira]

But she didn't even say those things. I don't know her, but you commenting on how you think she feels passed on past experiences using a current comment is hardly fair, now is it? First, she never said Sumia couldn't attract anyone, she said FEW, emphasis on few because that doesn't mean none in the slightest, in fact it probably means less than otherwise if anything, would want to marry, which last I checked doesn't equal love in the slightest, you can most certainly love someone with all of your heart and not want to marry them. Don't really know here, but from what I've read, she's pretty...vocal. However, responding just as extreme as she does, doesn't make the situation any better, responding worse doesn't either.

I get identifying with a character as well. Still, they aren't reflections of you, I'm sorry to say. They are reflections of ideas that IS thought people would like. IS wasn't thinking of how you felt and said, "Yep, there's a character." When the day is done, these aren't real people, and they will never be as complicated as real people, nor will they hold a similar meaning when being discussed as real people. Sumia is two things, words and triangles. She doesn't represent anything more than words and triangles, and she does not stand for anything more than words and triangles. She will always be words and triangles; do not take such things personally. It's okay to dislike how a character is designed. I think it's irrational, but I'm not going to pretend that someone should feel bad when they don't like a fictional idea.

And finally to the Fredrick thing, I was actually thinking of saying something similar until I came back to all of these responses.

This is less about Sumia and more about her qualities. Sumia might just be "words and triangles", but her qualities are real and are exemplified by many people. What Ana said is that Sumia is not good spouse material based on those characteristics, but you could replace Sumia with anyone with these characteristics. So whats she's really saying is that those qualities are undesirable. Obviously, this reflects negatively on those who have them, and could easily cause them to be hurt. It should have been expected really. But I will not say whether she crossed a line or not, because it wasn't said with the intention of being hurtful. Sometimes opinions hurt and they shouldn't always be demonized for that. The only obvious issue was the generalization "few men would like this".

Edited March 31, 2014 by n00srac

[Moira]

Accidental double post

Edited March 31, 2014 by n00srac

[Czar_Yoshi]

I get identifying with a character as well. Still, they aren't reflections of you, I'm sorry to say. They are reflections of ideas that IS thought people would like. IS wasn't thinking of how you felt and said, "Yep, there's a character." When the day is done, these aren't real people, and they will never be as complicated as real people, nor will they hold a similar meaning when being discussed as real people. Sumia is two things, words and triangles. She doesn't represent anything more than words and triangles, and she does not stand for anything more than words and triangles. She will always be words and triangles; do not take such things personally. It's okay to dislike how a character is designed. I think it's irrational, but I'm not going to pretend that someone should feel bad when they don't like a fictional idea.

Well, here's some perspective: to you, everyone on this forum is also just words and pixels. It's probably safe to assume that there are people on the other end making those words and pixels, but you never see them- just the words and pixels. So do you see them as people, or as words and pixels?

Back on topic, there are two ideas I have of why Chrom can choose who he chooses. The first one is a bit more character-by-character: Maribelle, Sumia and Sully are nobles, Avatar is his best friend, and Olivia was practically handed to him on a plate by Basilio (and the only way he can marry her is if he didn't have a wife by Cht.11, in which case he's under pressure to take one).

The other one has plot holes, but this is Awakening so that's nothing new: Basically, Chrom can only marry women who are present in his party at the time to mother Future Lucina. Panne won't join in Cht.6 because Emmeryn won't be there to convince her to, Tharja and Nowi won't join because Chrom will never head to Plegia on his rescue mission (while he'll probably invade at some point, it will be later), Basilio wouldn't have given Olivia because Ferox's circumstances could have been different if Lon'qu beat Chrom, and Miriel... Idunno, maybe Chrom has a phobia of units who can reclass to DM. Call this grasping at straws if you like, but since IS didn't give a better explanation there's no reason why I can't make my own.

Oh, and from an in-game perspective Chrom can only marry one wife per file so he may not even be aware of his limitation.

[TheFreshestSlice]

Well, here's some perspective: to you, everyone on this forum is also just words and pixels. It's probably safe to assume that there are people on the other end making those words and pixels, but you never see them- just the words and pixels. So do you see them as people, or as words and pixels?

Lulz, I'm going to respond to this seriously against my better judgement, I said Sumia is only words and pixels. Considering that everyone on this forum can respond to something I say, they obviously aren't just words and pixels. Sumia is, as stated, bound by predetermined behavior. But enough of that.

The other one has plot holes, but this is Awakening so that's nothing new: Basically, Chrom can only marry women who are present in his party at the time to mother Future Lucina. Panne won't join in Cht.6 because Emmeryn won't be there to convince her to, Tharja and Nowi won't join because Chrom will never head to Plegia on his rescue mission (while he'll probably invade at some point, it will be later), Basilio wouldn't have given Olivia because Ferox's circumstances could have been different if Lon'qu beat Chrom, and Miriel... Idunno, maybe Chrom has a phobia of units who can reclass to DM. Call this grasping at straws if you like, but since IS didn't give a better explanation there's no reason why I can't make my own.

Oh, and from an in-game perspective Chrom can only marry one wife per file so he may not even be aware of his limitation.

Dunno. Olivia can still somehow marry Chrom though. I'm guessing that the khans intervene no matter what however, Bassilio still goes to war against Valm, for instance with Chrom's help. Of course the war is extended most likely. I'm guessing that Emmeryn's sacrifice is what shortens the Plagian War in the current timeline. Also, Lucina knows Panne, who is there for some reason. Plus the other children still know Lucina, so they obviously stayed in Ylisse.

Really though, it could just be down to Chrom's preferences 'cause you know reasons.

[Magical Glace]

I don't remember Sully ever being called a noble, I thought she was just a knight. Maribelle and Sumia I do remember being called nobles. Olivia... I think the only reason Chrom/Olivia is even a thing is Inigo is implied to have been intended as Lucina's sibling at some point, before he was role reassigned. That's how I interpreted it, anyway.

[Roivann]

I don't remember Sully ever being called a noble, I thought she was just a knight. Maribelle and Sumia I do remember being called nobles. Olivia... I think the only reason Chrom/Olivia is even a thing is Inigo is implied to have been intended as Lucina's sibling at some point, before he was role reassigned. That's how I interpreted it, anyway.

Sully is of noble birth.