I'd like to introduce you to my family...

[ZemZem]

I know some people that don't have and aren't bothered to buy and DLC, so...

Besides, all because one skill is superior to a second one doesn't mean the second one is a bad skill.

[Gaia]

Thing: All the units that can get RfK have no need for it. Chrom has Dual Strike+ to use. Same for Lucina. Inigo has no room to deal with it. Same with Brady. Morgan can procstack, which is far better.

[Shadow Mir]

Besides, all because one skill is superior to a second one doesn't mean the second one is a bad skill.

True, But still, having Rightful King likely means I'd have to drop something better, in addition to what Gaia said.

[PuffPuff]

1. Exactly - as far as I'm concerned, I don't relish the though of needing to restrict Sully and Tharja to Donnel and Gaius just because of Galeforce.

2. I wouldn't tie the story to the game's difficulty, considering that if I'm playing on a harder mode, odds are I've already beaten the game before.

3. @Ayanami: Counter is bad. Lethality is, to put it bluntly, a wasted skillslot. Also, as to dark magic, if there's a reason I want it, it ain't Ruin, and it sure as hell ain't lolWaste.

1. You don't know how useful it is on the hardest difficulties. After killing a foe and nearby others without a Rescue only to get killed on the enemy phase, guess what? I've just saved my character. I can then retreat the character and get time to heal as Lunatic often gives you no chance to do so as they surround you way too much. ...And I did say that Lon'qu+Tharja's was also good, because it just is. I wouldn't bother to pair her with no one else other than him, Donnel, Gaius, and Male MU.

2. Don't touch if you don't like getting surrounded.

3. Ruin and Waste actually are no good without forging

Ruin-Forge+Wrath+Neal+Gamble

Waste-Raise the acc of it in the forge shop. It's awful.

How is Counter exactly bad?

Optimization.jpeg

Still, pretty good optimization at that, even if Vaike/Lissa's a pretty meh pairing for Owain (I know this because I did it in my initial run).

1. I'm kinda curious why Virion!Olivia is considered good, though? I mean, he loses Luna and really only gains Tomefaire in return, and imo that's a pretty shit tradeoff; considering the freak retard Skill that he'd have with Virion as his dad would boost Luna's activation rate through the roof. Plus, Inigo's moreso built for support anyways.

2. Otherwise, not bad. I prefer certain other pairings if we're looking from a story perspective (Gaius/Maribelle and Donnel/Olivia, for one), but this is still a pretty good pairing set.

I assume he meant VaikexLissa for a Vaike!Owain

1. Better activation chances.

*Brushes hair away from face*

I like the sound of that.

2. The Gaius+Maribelle one is really sweet to read. :3

He's kind of in the middle- Virion doesn't give him anything bad, so I'd count it as a decent pairing. While a Luna/Vengeance Inigo will be better, there are so many worse Inigos (Gregor and Donnel come to mind) that Virion's still near the top of the list.

I'll have to try that. Plus Inigo would look so *blush* in grey hair. ^^

Chrom fathered Inigo ftw. Rightful King + pseudo Aether (Luna and Sol) + Astra/Lethality + Limit Breaker is da bomb. :D

Hee hee...

It always goes on my characters. :3

So tell me exactly what you would take out, then.

LB - lolNope

Agg - lolNope

Luna - lolNope

GF - lolNope

-Faire - lolNope

Honestly, RfK isn't that great. Hell, I wish that RfK was passed to the female children instead, just for this reason (Far more good male children than female, and Lucy would get Aether regardless).

I'd take out the Faire and put in Rightful King. It is worthy to have a slot.

Rightful King honestly isn't that great at all. Primarily because the one skill that benefits most from it is a useless one. Also, diminishing returns.

That would be Lethality. ...And you don't have to use it for just that. Better chance of activating Luna making it almost like Luna+ along with LB is always a good thing.

How can you pass that better activation up? Plus better Miracle activation.

Rightful King increases the chances of offensive skills activating. How is that not good?

It is.

If only Rightful God were obtainable (Can't wait to crack this game later), along with stacking Rightful King, skills except Lethality would activate almost all the time. Aether+ anyone?

Rightful King gives skills like Luna and Aether a better chance at proccing. I'd say that makes it worth a skill slot.

Yes.

More than anything else.

Rightful King increases skill activation chance, but - get this - so does Limit Breaker, which does much more. And, once again, the principle of diminishing returns comes into play. Basically, when Rightful King has the most effect, skills are unreliable, And it doesn't help that most of the skills that ARE worth using have a Skill% activation rate.

Have them both. Makes the chances even higher. :D

What if one were to not have Limit Breaker access.

No. -.-

Then All Stats+2 will have to come along with Rallies.

True, But still, having Rightful King likely means I'd have to drop something better, in addition to what Gaia said.

Dropping a faire skill is worth the sacrifice.

[Shadow Mir]

As there's no way I'm quoting your wall of text:

1. And the reward for Most Groundless Assumptions goes to... Seriously, I do know how good Galeforce is, but that does NOT mean my pairings will revolve around optimising Galeforce, no sirrah.

3. Never mind the 2 base class reclasses this requires, and the fact Wrath sucks. As to Counter, either I'm not taking enough damage to make it meaningful (bad) or I'm taking more damage than I'd actually be comfortable taking just to make it useful (also bad). And the problem with Ruin and Waste? They're outclassed, simply put.

[Numot]

Rightful King honestly isn't that great at all. Primarily because the one skill that benefits most from it is a useless one. Also, diminishing returns.

This is why I like Libra!Ingio more than Chrom!Ingio.

[PuffPuff]

3. Never mind the 2 base class reclasses this requires, and the fact Wrath sucks. As to Counter, either I'm not taking enough damage to make it meaningful (bad) or I'm taking more damage than I'd actually be comfortable taking just to make it useful (also bad). And the problem with Ruin and Waste? They're outclassed, simply put.

Counter cuts their health down enough to 0HKO afterwards like attacking Pokemon after getting Stealth Rocked and Spiked enough to 0HKO for those that lack Roost and or Recover. Though Counter can be bad if your swarmed and are trying to defend. It's like using Sniper class slowly to poke at opponents health without taking damage from using Longbows and Double Bows enough to 0HKO afterwards. Ruin and Waste have bad accuracy, yes. But it can be solved along with Hit+20 and raising hit with forges.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Dark_Huntress

[Shadow Mir]

Counter cuts their health down enough to 0HKO afterwards like attacking Pokemon after getting Stealth Rocked and Spiked enough to 0HKO for those that lack Roost and or Recover. Though Counter can be bad if your swarmed and are trying to defend. It's like using Sniper class slowly to poke at opponents health without taking damage from using Longbows and Double Bows enough to 0HKO afterwards. Ruin and Waste have bad accuracy, yes. But it can be solved along with Hit+20 and raising hit with forges.

>comparing Counter to Stealth Rock

Also, I'd hesitate to waste a skill slot on Hit Rate +20.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Counter cuts their health down enough to 0HKO afterwards like attacking Pokemon after getting Stealth Rocked and Spiked enough to 0HKO for those that lack Roost and or Recover. Though Counter can be bad if your swarmed and are trying to defend. It's like using Sniper class slowly to poke at opponents health without taking damage from using Longbows and Double Bows enough to 0HKO afterwards. Ruin and Waste have bad accuracy, yes. But it can be solved along with Hit+20 and raising hit with forges.

Pokemon battles are 6v6, FE battles are ~10v50. You don't have HP to trade with, any 1 for 1 is obviously not in your favor. Stealth Rock also doesn't sap your HP every time it hurts your foe.

Anything lacking Dragonskin will automatically die in one hit to a properly equipped pair, it's why Streetpass is so futile. Your units are so powerful, you don't even need chip damage for anything except the stuff on Secret Apo's throne in extreme challenge runs.

Dropping a faire skill is worth the sacrifice.

For an extra 10% Luna to be worth -5 atk, Luna would need to boost your atk by an average of five per hit with 10% activation. Assuming one attack out of ten procs, your Luna procs would have to boost your damage by 50, implying fighting foes with 100 Def, which never happens. Ever. It also means Brady would have to be upfront all the time as Luna (and thus RK) does nothing in the back, which locks him out of marrying a Galeforce user, forcing you to use Brady x Nah. That is very not worth it.

Miracle is bad based on the principle that if it fails, you die. As in, Game Over. That's not an acceptable risk to take in normal gameplay, whether you have a 75% activation rate or a 99% activation rate, because there are always 100% alternatives. Not to mention that it wastes a skillslot you could have used to kill the enemy before they attacked you.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Gaia]

For an extra 10% Luna to be worth -5 atk, Luna would need to boost your atk by an average of five per hit with 10% activation. Assuming one attack out of ten procs, your Luna procs would have to boost your damage by 50, implying fighting foes with 100 Def, which never happens. Ever. It also means Brady would have to be upfront all the time as Luna (and thus RK) does nothing in the back, which locks him out of marrying a Galeforce user, forcing you to use Brady x Nah. That is very not worth it.

Adding to this, that RfK 10% still doesn't guarantee jack. 1/10 still remains the theoretical probability, while a -Faire is a guaranteed +5 attack.

[PuffPuff]

Pokemon battles are 6v6, FE battles are ~10v50. You don't have HP to trade with, any 1 for 1 is obviously not in your favor. Stealth Rock also doesn't sap your HP every time it hurts your foe.

Anything lacking Dragonskin will automatically die in one hit to a properly equipped pair, it's why Streetpass is so futile. Your units are so powerful, you don't even need chip damage for anything except the stuff on Secret Apo's throne in extreme challenge runs.

For an extra 10% Luna to be worth -5 atk, Luna would need to boost your atk by an average of five per hit with 10% activation. Assuming one attack out of ten procs, your Luna procs would have to boost your damage by 50, implying fighting foes with 100 Def, which never happens. Ever. It also means Brady would have to be upfront all the time as Luna (and thus RK) does nothing in the back, which locks him out of marrying a Galeforce user, forcing you to use Brady x Nah. That is very not worth it.

Miracle is bad based on the principle that if it fails, you die. As in, Game Over. That's not an acceptable risk to take in normal gameplay, whether you have a 75% activation rate or a 99% activation rate, because there are always 100% alternatives. Not to mention that it wastes a skillslot you could have used to kill the enemy before they attacked you.

True.

But I always find Miracle to be good in both this game and FE4/5 era. It saved me from many restarts on Lunatic. Vantage can be pretty risky to use without proper support, or enough to 0HKO the opponent as if they even get a chance to strike you, your unit is dead. Especially if they have better speed than you which every Apoth foe would without Rallies/LB, both. Planning to 0HKO is difficult, but it can be done. Rightful King is all by choice, really.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Dark_Huntress

[Czar_Yoshi]

Adding to this, that RfK 10% still doesn't guarantee jack. 1/10 still remains the theoretical probability, while a -Faire is a guaranteed +5 attack.

Adding to that even further, adding 5 damage per foe spread out over ten foes is a lot more useful than adding 50 damage randomly to one of them.

Vantage can be pretty risky to use without proper support

Hence why thresholds and perfect reliability are so important.

[shadowofchaos]

This post is killing me for two reasons.

1. That quality.

2. Arguing efficiency and skill utility when using a DLC Outrealm pair in Apotheosis... when their Dual Attack rate is shoddy at best without support bonuses.

I mean sure, I use other MUs for screwing around in Apotheosis, but Dual Attacks count in that scenario if you're arguing usability.

Miracle is bad based on the principle that if it fails, you die. As in, Game Over. That's not an acceptable risk to take in normal gameplay, whether you have a 75% activation rate or a 99% activation rate, because there are always 100% alternatives. Not to mention that it wastes a skillslot you could have used to kill the enemy before they attacked you.

This does not diminishes the value of it. Factoring it into say... tanking Anna (without getting her off the throne) in the secret path with it in regards to minimizing the chance of dying with other reliable methods gives you a fail-safe.

Relying on it is horrible. But having one last failsafe just in case the RNG wants to screw you over is arguable.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/643003-fire-emblem-awakening/66829445

I quote:

However, I could not find a consistent way to beat Anna. Anna requires a bit of luck. Morgan can easily kill Anna, but he doesn't have enough Defense and HP to tank Anna's Aether. Instead, rely on Dual Guard, Miracle, and Aether not activating.

Probability of Morgan surviving Anna's Vantage

= 1 - (Probability of Morgan not surviving Anna's Vantage )

= 1 - P(Aether activates) * P(Dual Guard fails) * P(Miracle fails)

= 1 - .65 * (1 - .29) * (1-.63)

= 82.9%

So, chances of beating Anna is in your favor, even if it is not as consistent as everything else I designed.

Edited April 15, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[PuffPuff]

This post is killing me for two reasons.

1. That quality.

2. Arguing efficiency and skill utility when using a DLC Outrealm pair in Apotheosis... when their Dual Attack rate is shoddy at best without support bonuses.

3. I mean sure, I use other MUs for screwing around in Apotheosis, but Dual Attacks count in that scenario if you're arguing usability.

1. =P

2. At least they don't permanently die when defeated. xP

3. Ha ha...I'll have to try that after a Lunatic+ run.

------

However, I could not find a consistent way to beat Anna. Anna requires a bit of luck. Morgan can easily kill Anna, but he doesn't have enough Defense and HP to tank Anna's Aether. Instead, rely on Dual Guard, Miracle, and Aether not activating.

Probability of Morgan surviving Anna's Vantage

= 1 - (Probability of Morgan not surviving Anna's Vantage )

= 1 - P(Aether activates) * P(Dual Guard fails) * P(Miracle fails)

= 1 - .65 * (1 - .29) * (1-.63)

= 82.9%

So, chances of beating Anna is in your favor, even if it is not as consistent as everything else I designed.

It is sufficiant to use Lancebreaker whenever your doing a challenging run of this. (No LB and Rallies)

Edited April 15, 2014 by Dark_Huntress

[Czar_Yoshi]

Relying on it is horrible. But having one last failsafe just in case the RNG wants to screw you over is arguable.

Fortunately, Anna is still vulnerable to Longbows, Vantage and Avo stack. As long as you run your calculations beforehand, she can be taken with no risk (though failsafes are still useful to compensate for human error, I'm guilty of underestimating Vengeance in Normal Apo many times and being saved by random misses and DGs).

It is sufficiant to use Lancebreaker whenever your doing a challenging run of this. (No LB and Rallies)

Lancebreaker is usually sufficient for fully optimized runs, but when you start taking away major statboosts you need to go all the way with other +Avo skills including DS+ and Charm.

[shadowofchaos]

Fortunately, Anna is still vulnerable to Longbows, Vantage and Avo stack. As long as you run your calculations beforehand, she can be taken with no risk (though failsafes are still useful to compensate for human error, I'm guilty of underestimating Vengeance in Normal Apo many times and being saved by random misses and DGs).

Like I said, I know how to cheese Anna. It's just that sometimes we are stupid even with all the calculations.

We're human. And Miracle is a calculated skill we put on specific units sometimes to catch us when we make bad choices when it counts.

[PuffPuff]

Though Miracle is completely useless on casual.

[cryogeist]

Though Miracle is completely useless on casual.

Well that has honestly a given considering the kind of skill it is, honestly most thinking goes out the window in Casual though

(I still think Casual mode is a good idea for new players/people who don't want to reset though)

I always just had Miracle on a character if I had nothing better to put there, in case I mess up and dumb luck takes over