Pornography. Shameful Pleasure, or Perfectly Natural?

[Esau of Isaac]

Porn is cool. People who do not think porn is cool are nutso cuckoo crazy psycho and should not be allowed to say words.

I don't even want to say what I think about the matter because I'd look like a Bible Thumper. OK, I think it's shameful. I'm not getting into personal matters or anything, but please say "watching porno" at your next Penance. But it's your descision to watch it or not. Do what you want.

Hahaha, oh god this guy. "Forgive me father for I have sinned, I watched Big Booty Bitches 2 Electric Boogaloo" my sides please

[Viviphy]

While a lot of porn can be pretty degrading to the people in it, particularly women, I am still most definitely aroused by it. I believe it is entirely natural to be turned on by porn, we are all sexual beings who, for the most part, have sexual preferences which can be found in porn. I've been watching it pretty regularly for years, even when I have a steady sexual relationship. I just enjoy watching it and all that comes with the arousal.

I understand where people may find shame in watching it, especially with regards to religion, but I really don't think it should be this way; as mentioned above, we are sexual beings.

[Byte2222]

The demand for it is very natural, sex is part of human nature. What's not OK is the abuse that goes on behind the scenes (previously discussed) and when unacceptable material changes people's expectations (read: men's expectations of women).

Edited April 24, 2014 by Byte2222

[dondon151]

woah

Considering I've heard there were studies into the fact that 55% of females watch porn at least once a month in the past, I think they still have a say even if they find it perverse.

other studies indicate that women are generally not as aroused by pornography as men are. when looking for sexual stimuli, they don't tend to focus on visual cues like men do, and they generally prefer other media such as erotic fiction (hint: why is twilight so popular among women?).

the book "a billion wicked thoughts" is required reading for anyone who wishes to engage in a serious discussion on this topic. especially those who find it icky.

Edited April 24, 2014 by dondon151

[Cowboy Karimov]

Hahaha, oh god this guy. "Forgive me father for I have sinned, I watched Big Booty Bitches 2 Electric Boogaloo" my sides please

You just phrased that in the best way ever.

[Rehab]

Question 1 Answers:

- Shameful Pleasure?

If I find something shameful, I generally don't find it pleasurable. Nor do I find pleasure in doing something that I'd consider shameful (there has to be a valid reason as to why I see it as shameful, which makes the decision in itself much less appealing to me.) I also don't see the overall appeal of random people I have no initial interest/knowledge of prior going around doing sexual acts just to 'entertain' people, nor do I care to gawk at stranger's naked forms in attempts to find any sort of pleasure from it. So no, on that answer.

- Perfectly Natural?

It's one thing to gauge and find the best mate possible, whether it is due to appearance, physique, or a mixture of both in the wild/nature. It happens all the time. However, I don't believe/think that gawking at and otherwise fapping away while observing random people doing an act that is meant to be of their own personal business would be what I'd consider to be natural by any means. Humans really are sick, perverse creatures compared to most other animals, and so they find things like this to amuse themselves with when they're unable to IRL, imo. There are many other acts humans do on a daily basis that are just as bad (if not worse), but that's a side topic/tangent from the topic at hand. So once again, no, it's not natural.

Question 2 Answer:

- Do I partake?

Obvious answer is obvious; no, I don't care to, and I really don't see the point of it.

I understand that others will, and that it'll always be around, but I just see it as one of the more corrupt/perverse area in society, because all it encourages is people to objectify people and, quite frankly, degrades those who partake in it. I realize it's also a way of life for some, and they're free to do so/live in that manner if they so choose to, but it's just a matter/lifestyle that disgusts me personally.

By the bolded, do you mean you don't think animals masturbate, or that you don't think animals are anywhere near as into sex as humans? Because if it's the latter, ever heard of bonobos? They're apes who can consensually fondle literally as a way of saying hello, and have "give (consensual) oral sex" in their repertoire of conflict-resolution methods, for and between all sexes. If it's the former, then, well, we've seen more than one other species that does something that could be classified as "auto-eroticism," with and without potential mates available. (nsfw)

I'll save you the schpiel on the many pretty-well-documented physical and mental benefits of masturbation for a good variety of people, in case it wasn't actually masturbation you were referring to but pornography. Which, yeah, I guess other animals don't have a way of reproducing.

other studies indicate that women are generally not as aroused by pornography as men are. when looking for sexual stimuli, they don't tend to focus on visual cues like men do, and they generally prefer other media such as erotic fiction (hint: why is twilight so popular among women?).

the book "a billion wicked thoughts" is required reading for anyone who wishes to engage in a serious discussion on this topic. especially those who find it icky.

I know you said "not as aroused" as opposed to "not aroused," but I'd like to note that I saw some Psychology Today article about a study where both men and women were strapped up to some kind of brain-monitoring device, and even in the cases of the women studied who said they didn't like or watch porn, when they were shown images of sex, they had the same area of the brain correlating to "sexual arousal" light up as did every other person of either sex who said they enjoyed it, so the article claimed. I don't think the tiny writeup got into anything like possible differences of degree, or any other nuances to the matter, though, so go figure.

I've generally heard a couple times here and there that women may have more potential to be aroused by visual stimuli than common knowledge goes. Exactly how much that supposedly is and exactly how it supposedly looks compared to the case of men in aggregate, though, I don't think I could say.

A big part of the arguments I've heard against porn (though the only sources I can think to link are from the same place as earlier, and would probably come across as unacceptably opinionated to a lot of people despite there being cited statistics in a number of them) is that "porn is not sex." That is, the total share of porn out there is completely oversaturated by a basically misogynistic point of view, which may be viewed as "natural" by an increasingly large share of people more because of the porn industry's influence than because that kind of sex is what people in general naturally enjoy or are like. A piece of this position that may be controversial is the idea that a person's sexual proclivities can be heavily influenced by other people, or moreso wider culture around them. I know even less about that debate, though.

On that note, I don't think many people would dispute there's basically always some been porn tinged by some kind of misogyny out there, but there may be evidence that a, uh, genre, of porn called (uh) hardcore gonzo,** which can't really get more blatant about it ("NO [REAL] MAN ACTUALLY WANTS TO DEAL WITH THIS FOREPLAY SHIT, WE'RE GOING TO BE ABUSIVE AND YOU'RE GOING TO FUCKING LOVE IT")* has gained a humongous market share in the last few decades.

*near-literal transcription of an actual person's supposed words

**another edit: Oh yeah, it was "gonzo." Thanks Superbus

Edit the hundredth: I guess that kinda comes back to the question of "what is pornography," though. Seriously, filmed sex? Still photographs of sex? Particularly risque models shots? Drawings/animation? Anything you can look at and work it to? Or is everything but film/photos just "smut?"

Edited April 24, 2014 by Rehab

[Superbus]

Sex is natural. Watching other people have sex can be an aphrodisiac. So yeah, it's natural, and sometimes fun.

However, I will state that the nature of my porn watching has changed as I've aged, and gotten more experienced in life, in sex, etc. Simply put, pornography - especially the modern kind, which is mostly "gonzo", POV trash - is so ridiculous that it's almost impossible to get off to it unless you're really young and haven't seen - or had - much sex. Simply put, people don't fuck like that, and it's gotten to the point where most of what's out there seems to be there either to laugh at or satisfy the desires of truly depraved people.

It also doesn't help that people who grow up - at even younger ages than I was - seeing porn have a completely bass-ackwards way of viewing sex because of it. Poor ladies.

[Chiki]

I think porn is degrading towards women, so I think it's shameful, but that's because of practice rather than it being necessarily degrading towards women.

[Loki Laufeyson]

you're a female. as a male, i see nothing wrong with it.

Roflcopters. Thats assuming all females ever have a problem with porn. Hey, did you know those porn actresses entered the industry willingly? Theres an entire industry thats catered for female fapping. Go to an adult store sometime and just marvel at all the bondage and dildo stuff to choose from! Assuming a women would inherently dislike porn is fucking hilarious. Also the further implications of this very quote make me side-eye you with mild disdain.

I think porn is degrading towards women, so I think it's shameful, but that's because of practice rather than it being necessarily degrading towards women.

Sadly, mainstream porno is like that and its real bummer, man. Even lesbian porn is often more about showcasing the girl-on-girl action in a way that males would find pleasurable. The issue here is often that (like dondon's hilarious but kinda sexist quote up there), porn is marketed mostly to men. At least mainstream porno. You gotta dig kinda deep (hue pun) to find some thats truly aimed at women. And no, we dont just want to see two hot guys buggering each other all the time. Because of how porno is marketed, it becomes pretty degrading and its a bummer.

[The-Mage-King]

I think porn is degrading towards women, so I think it's shameful, but that's because of practice rather than it being necessarily degrading towards women.

I think chick flicks are degrading towards men, so I think they're shameful, but that's because of practice rather than it being necessarily degrading towards men.

[Chiki]

I think chick flicks are degrading towards men, so I think they're shameful, but that's because of practice rather than it being necessarily degrading towards men.

I never saw a chick flick where guys got pounded by girls wearing strap-ons. Mind giving me your source?

[Magical CC]

I think porn is degrading towards women, so I think it's shameful, but that's because of practice rather than it being necessarily degrading towards women.

Come on! How come boy love (aka gay) porn is degrading towards women? And yes, I have seen guys got pounded by girls wearing strap-ons in porn.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Char

[Wen Yang]

Roflcopters. Thats assuming all females ever have a problem with porn. Hey, did you know those porn actresses entered the industry willingly? Theres an entire industry thats catered for female fapping. Go to an adult store sometime and just marvel at all the bondage and dildo stuff to choose from! Assuming a women would inherently dislike porn is fucking hilarious. Also the further implications of this very quote make me side-eye you with mild disdain.

Sadly, mainstream porno is like that and its real bummer, man. Even lesbian porn is often more about showcasing the girl-on-girl action in a way that males would find pleasurable. The issue here is often that (like dondon's hilarious but kinda sexist quote up there), porn is marketed mostly to men. At least mainstream porno. You gotta dig kinda deep (hue pun) to find some thats truly aimed at women. And no, we dont just want to see two hot guys buggering each other all the time. Because of how porno is marketed, it becomes pretty degrading and its a bummer.

Sadly Loki is right. I can't even stomach most mainstream porn nowadays... it's just so... Faked and plastic-filled it's a turn-off than a turn-on. That and the excessive marketing is also annoying.

[The-Mage-King]

I never saw a chick flick where guys got pounded by girls wearing strap-ons. Mind giving me your source?

Go watch Lifetime. I'm sure they have at least one.

[Chiki]

Go watch Lifetime. I'm sure they have at least one.

Chick flicks are actually considered degrading towards women lol.

[Rehab]

What movies marketed towards women are you thinking of that degraded men in them, exactly?

For my biased experience, in the very tiny share of movies that seemed to be marketed towards women that I've seen, I've generally seen being in a relationship with a (hot) man depicted as a positive thing, while in the majority of movies total that I've seen, I tended to end up asking myself, "why the hell did the love interest relent to getting with that guy? Because he 'won the day?' He was a jerk, or should've looked like it from her perspective!"

Come on! How come boy love (aka gay) porn is degrading towards women? And yes, I have seen guys got pounded by girls wearing strap-ons in porn.

While I think he was talking about het porn, which I assume is the majority share out there, I actually have heard the opinion expressed that gay porn (directed towards both sexes, but particularly male) often apes the abusive power/gender dynamic in gonzo porn (or at least one like it), and tends to make the bottom (and supposedly there is a bottom the majority of the time) out to be the more "feminine" both in their mannerisms and in how they're referred to.

I've personally heard a lot less about that total, and don't know that I could easily link as many things that could be considered statistics looking at the claim, though, so.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Rehab

[Esau of Isaac]

I never saw a chick flick where guys got pounded by girls wearing strap-ons. Mind giving me your source?

Wait. Wait. Wait.

Are you saying penile intercourse is degrading towards women?

[Florete]

I think it's pretty obviously a natural impulse and only shameful if one's worldview allows it to be so. I don't partake often, mostly because I just don't like watching people have sex.

As for the argument of whether or not it's degrading, that's a tough subject. People are going to live out their fantasies; that's what porn is all about. For that reason, I find it hard to see most kinds of porn as legitimately degrading or offensive. Just because someone likes watching rape porn doesn't mean they condone it in real life or would ever do it. But it's a tough subject because, while many people will at least try to separate these things from real life, it still must have an influence on the people watching, and therefore on society in general.

Then again, as I don't watch it, I don't really know how degrading it can potentially get. Take this as the opinion of an outsider.

[BBM]

@Dondon- Twilight isn't erotic fiction... It's just a romance novel. You'd be better off pointing to 50 Shades of Grey or Harlequin novels or something.

[dondon151]

Roflcopters. Thats assuming all females ever have a problem with porn.

how did you come to this conclusion? nowhere did i imply that all females have a problem with porn; rather i implied that females in general (or on average) do not find porn to satisfy their sexual cues.

Assuming a women would inherently dislike porn is fucking hilarious. Also the further implications of this very quote make me side-eye you with mild disdain.

the data agree with me. did you ignore the post in which i already dispelled these accusations beforehand? here, let me quote myself:

other studies indicate that women are generally not as aroused by pornography as men are. when looking for sexual stimuli, they don't tend to focus on visual cues like men do, and they generally prefer other media such as erotic fiction (hint: why is twilight so popular among women?).

the book "a billion wicked thoughts" is required reading for anyone who wishes to engage in a serious discussion on this topic. especially those who find it icky.

@Dondon- Twilight isn't erotic fiction... It's just a romance novel. You'd be better off pointing to 50 Shades of Grey or Harlequin novels or something.

just as how game designers target male audiences by designing female characters to be young, scantily clad, and with ample breast and butt, erotic fiction writers (and i would say, stephenie meyer as well) target female audiences by designing male characters to be tall, socially dominant, and attentive to their love interests.

Edited April 25, 2014 by dondon151

[BBM]

So your logic is that because both erotic fiction writers and Stephanie Meyer have similar male leads, Stephanie Meyer is an erotic fiction writer? You shouldn't need me to point out the flaw in this logic.

I'm aware your point isn't specifically about erotic fiction as much as it is about designing to attract females. Nevertheless, Twilight isn't erotic fiction. Also I don't actually believe Stephanie Meyer purposely designed Edward to attract female audiences. She designed him as a depiction of her own fantasies, yes, but that doesn't mean that as she was writing the novel, she sat and thought "hmm what do all females like?"

[Tryhard]

other studies indicate that women are generally not as aroused by pornography as men are. when looking for sexual stimuli, they don't tend to focus on visual cues like men do, and they generally prefer other media such as erotic fiction (hint: why is twilight so popular among women?).

Even if that were true, dismissing half of the population just because it conflicts with what you consider "valid" discussion is kind of bullshit, even if they generally have a different intepretation on pornography. Yes, it's true that males are most interested in porn than females, but a lot of females still watch porn, even if it's just the soft-core stuff.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Tryhard

[dondon151]

Even if that were true, dismissing half of the population just because it conflicts with what you consider "valid" discussion is kind of bullshit, even if they generally have a different intepretation on pornography. Yes, it's true that males are most interested in porn than females, but a lot of females still watch porn, even if it's just the soft-core stuff.

where did i dismiss half of the population? i merely stated, to those women out there who happen to not feel any sense of arousal from pornography, to consider that the different responses to pornography that women and men exhibit are purely due to differences in biology.

(though i should point out that women tend to respond favorably to gay porn with male actors.)

[Phoenix Wright]

I think porn is degrading towards women, so I think it's shameful, but that's because of practice rather than it being necessarily degrading towards women.

i think, with the way it's done these days, it's degrading towards both genders (more degrading for women).

porn's still pretty cool though.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Phoenix Wright

[Tryhard]

where did i dismiss half of the population? i merely stated, to those women out there who happen to not feel any sense of arousal from pornography, to consider that the different responses to pornography that women and men exhibit are purely due to differences in biology.

how did you come to this conclusion? nowhere did i imply that all females have a problem with porn; rather i implied that females in general (or on average) do not find porn to satisfy their sexual cues.

I didn't know you said all of that originally in 12 words.

you're a female. as a male, i see nothing wrong with it.

Regardless, continue. I have nothing more to say.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Tryhard