Pornography. Shameful Pleasure, or Perfectly Natural?

[LunaSaint]

I think it's pretty obviously a natural impulse and only shameful if one's worldview allows it to be so.

As for the argument of whether or not it's degrading, that's a tough subject. People are going to live out their fantasies; that's what porn is all about. For that reason, I find it hard to see most kinds of porn as legitimately degrading or offensive. Just because someone likes watching rape porn doesn't mean they condone it in real life or would ever do it. But it's a tough subject because, while many people will at least try to separate these things from real life, it still must have an influence on the people watching, and therefore on society in general.

I share very similar views to RFoF, though I do indulge in it quite a bit. Fantasy is a huge draw of porn, getting to immerse yourself into something forbidden and exciting.

Is it shameful? I believe that it is, if only because of the social taboos. Though for some people, that only heightens the enjoyment. I suspect that a great deal of people would be totally open to casual sex if there weren't the existing social stigmas, or fear of offending/abandoning their loved one.

[Ciarre]

Just forget that shit I said about sex being sacred for a second, that has nothing to do with my outrage at him saying prostitution isn't a big deal. It IS a big deal, pretty much all forms of prostitution are inherently abusive and harmful to women, are they not? Do you honestly think that any woman, save a few radical nymphos, would choose any kind of prostitution, whether it be porn or escorting or whatever, as their ideal career? What you do for a living is not even CLOSE to the kind of job that prostitution is, whether you think sex is sacred or not. Frankly, the fact that you think that a normal woman might find it to be an acceptable, much less desirable career, makes ME feel well-informed on this subject-- and boy do I know better.

But fuck, if I'm wrong, show me the evidence of it; disprove away, I welcome it.

There's a thing called legal prostitution, and many and I mean many women choose to work in these places, which are clean and structured. Most women aren't going to stay there for life, you know. This isn't like trafficking; you can leave whenever you want and you can set your own boundaries. There's nothing "inherently abusive and harmful" about that. There's a ton of women in college debts and the like and with around $700+ a person, that isn't bad way at all to make up for those. Very rarely does someone stay there as a lifelong career or whatever you seem to think. And I am a normal woman and I find prostitution to be an acceptable career. I wouldn't ever do it, but I wouldn't ever shame these women for what they want to do with their bodies.

[Chiki]

It IS a big deal, pretty much all forms of prostitution are inherently abusive and harmful to women, are they not? Do you honestly think that any woman, save a few radical nymphos, would choose any kind of prostitution, whether it be porn or escorting or whatever, as their ideal career? What you do for a living is not even CLOSE to the kind of job that prostitution is, whether you think sex is sacred or not. Frankly, the fact that you think that a normal woman might find it to be an acceptable, much less desirable career, makes ME feel well-informed on this subject-- and boy do I know better.

But fuck, if I'm wrong, show me the evidence of it; disprove away, I welcome it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-a-nevada-brothel-2013-10

"The No. 1 misconception about places like this is that the girls are here against their will. But that's just not true," Dena tells me.

Destini is a family woman, married with a child.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Chiki

[BANRYU]

Fine. Then I'm wrong, it's as simple as that.

[Cowboy Karimov]

Is that just a sweeping generalization or are you referring to anybody in particular?

...If you're calling someone a 'born-again zealot idiot' you may as well do it to his face, so to speak.

I'm referring to myself. I had a holier-than-thou attitude when I originally cast a vote and posted. Awful posts come out of a holier-than-thou attitude.

[Rehab]

You keep demanding evidence for any rebuttals, yet you consistently dismiss the need to present supporting evidence for your own position.

But sweeping statements like these are purely ideological. You preface your arguments with these assumptions, but they're not safe assumptions. They may be correct, they may not be. Until you give them weight they're empty statements. You can't make such blanket claims for a topic this complex and treat them all as given. Until you substantiate these assumptions, dredging up evidence in reflexive arguments is pointless; the burden of proof lies on you.

By way of example, you can't arbitrarily cite Esau for mother-son incest and treat it as fact until he provides evidence to the contrary. That's not fair on Esau.

- - -

In response to your arguments about the exploitation of porn actresses:

You claim porn actresses are harmed because many don't realize going into it their career prospects will be curtailed by virtue of their occupation. You also mentioned some women are forced into it. On this latter point, if for the sake of argument we assume these two claims are true, am I correct in assuming you mean personal circumstance makes entering the porn industry their best financial option even though it may lead to other situational harms?

If so, I'd argue one of your issues with the industry is an argument it exploits social inequality, a position I think fits within broader discussion on whether the feudal class systems that linger in modern capitalism 'force' people into unskilled jobs with no room for advancement, and if this is a systemic flaw. But I don't want to pursue the point if I misunderstand what you mean. This is of course on a separate train of thought to the discussion of women being harmed "behind the scenes".

Edit: Edited for clarity.

Regarding these subjects, I've heard claims (though not enough studies specifically to feel well-formed about the topic myself. then again for all I know the person I heard them from may have seen some) that the majority of even the women consensually entering into any form of sex trade (which they at large called the sex industry), would rather be supporting themselves by any other method.

Of course, I've also briefly heard accounts of and from women who love their jobs in porn or exotic dancing. And the argument the former claims lead up to, that even non-trafficked women, who (supposedly) face unequal economic opportunity compared to men, are effectively pressured by "capitalism," such as it is(?), to pursue sex work, may indeed be another one entirely. However, I have heard the former claims sometimes cite that in many places(?) the majority of women enter prostitution while teenagers and minors, and mostly while in poverty.

Interestingly, in Chiki's link, though the women there did indeed sound like they had a healthy enough emotional relationship with their work, I came across this quote:

There seem to be as many stories of breaking into the prostitution business as there are women working here. Dena told me that very rarely is this business a woman's plan.

Admittedly, most of what I've heard so far has been about prostitution as-is in most places, not legalized forms of prostitution. I've heard even less about that, except for it supposedly being highly regulated. Sounds like a step up in conditions, at least, and personally I'd probably rather have that be the situation than prostitution as-is. Makes me wonder what the results of the "nordic model" of prostitution law have been.

[BANRYU]

I'm referring to myself. I had a holier-than-thou attitude when I originally cast a vote and posted. Awful posts come out of a holier-than-thou attitude.

Okay gotcha, I was being overly sensitive lol sorry.

Admittedly I might have had a bit of that attitude in my posts OTL /guiltyconscience

[Esau of Isaac]

I suppose it's a bit after the fact now. But might as well:

Just forget that shit I said about sex being sacred for a second, that has nothing to do with my outrage at him saying prostitution isn't a big deal. It IS a big deal, pretty much all forms of prostitution are inherently abusive and harmful to women, are they not? Do you honestly think that any woman, save a few radical nymphos, would choose any kind of prostitution, whether it be porn or escorting or whatever, as their ideal career? What you do for a living is not even CLOSE to the kind of job that prostitution is, whether you think sex is sacred or not. Frankly, the fact that you think that a normal woman might find it to be an acceptable, much less desirable career, makes ME feel well-informed on this subject-- and boy do I know better.

But fuck, if I'm wrong, show me the evidence of it; disprove away, I welcome it.

You need to prove that all forms of prostitution are inherently abusive and harmful to women. The onus is on you to demonstrate that being paid to have sex is by its nature abusive to females. I think several women would choose porn as a career --mainly because many, many already have-- but whether or not I think they would is irrelevant because it's none of my business and none of yours either. The idea that women have some typical roles they must adhere to and any that deviate are obviously being manipulated is preposterous and stupidly sexist. If a woman wants to be paid to have sex that should be her decision and she shouldn't be barred from it because white knights can't possibly imagine people like her enjoy what they do. Adding to that, whether they really find deep fulfillment in doing it isn't something anyone should worry about. People every day do jobs they don't want to. I've done backbreaking, awful jobs in the past, and the one I am doing now is not amazingly better. Doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to choose to do it if I want.

And for the record, what I do in day-to-day work is comparable in many ways: I serve customers by doing physical work for them they don't want to. I pretend to enjoy their presence even if I don't, to make them feel comfortable. I endear to leave them feeling happy no matter who they are. I don't have to do exactly the same as them to have comparable tasks. Retail is retail. Women sell their body every day. Models showcase their beauty in magazines, idols prance around on stage singing songs, and so on and so forth. There's this constant series of complaints about women using their body as a tool but I think it's a load of bullshit. Everybody has things they're good at, and if people want to pay you for it and you like doing it then power to you. Some women are stunning and picturesque. Some women have amazing voices and gravitas when performing catchy beats. And some women are very sexy and like having sex.

Don't fuck with me, man. Just because I admitted I don't have much significant experience with the topic of porn, it doesn't mean anything I have to say on the matter is automatically invalid as a result.

I may not know porn, but I have a basic understanding of sexual psychology, motherfucker. I know how and why 'sex sells,' and how and why it works differently for men and women; that's not an opinion, it's unbiased, educated theorization that's supported by scientific case studies. Frankly, unless you can prove that what I'm saying is dead wrong-- that equal parts of the porn industry are directed at women, or whatever shit I'm apparently so goddamn ignorant of-- then you're just as full of crap as you say I am.

And no, Phoenix was NOT fucking presenting 'evidence' that contradicted anything I said. Just because there exists porn in which the women are in the dominant role or where men are tender and affectionate, it does NOT mean that the porn industry as a whole is not directed at men. The point is that there are men who are turned on by that, and the focus is still the sexual act itself, which is as I said, is primarily aimed at men. You want to fucking disprove me, how about you hand me some actual proof that addresses my so-called opinion instead of something almost completely tangential to it like his examples were?

The problem, though, is that you presented your unsubstantiated point of view as pure fact and anything that pointed in the opposite direction as strengthening evidence. It doesn't make any sense, it's a viewpoint that can't be disproven or contested because of its circular nature. More damningly, you never brought forth any evidence --of which a substantial amount would be needed for such substantial claims-- that all pornography points towards men, other than the barest of unsourced entry-level Psych 101 generalizations about how women are more turned on emotionally. As though this means females lack the capability to be aroused by pornography. Your argument at its very base is pretty weak, and without it the rest of it doesn't stand strongly.

I guess putting my opinion in a more neutral light would be me saying that I don't MIND people enjoying pornography if that's what they want to do SO LONG AS the people being portrayed in the pornography aren't being hurt by making it (whether 'hurt' means their body or their future). And let's be honest, is 'adult film actress' really the kind of mark a woman wants on her resume when she's trying to start her own business or whatever? I just find it hard to imagine a situation where porn actresses are benefitting from the industry they work in, because at present, I have no reason to believe they're getting any sort of long-term boon from it.

Sasha Grey seems to be fine with doing it. Pamela Anderson transitioned well. Jenna Jameson got along alright. But whether it's a great mark or not doesn't matter. I highly doubt anyone has or will ever care that I had experience in making bales of cardboard and plastic but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to do it in a job. I mean, do you think any employers feel impressed by someone that worked at McDonald's for three years? Yet millions participate in the market servicing customers as fry cooks or cashiers every day.

Behhh. My shitty wording skills strike again.

I guess I basically mean what I was talking about above, where I'm concerned about the lives of the people involved in the industry. I mean, if a woman (or a man) wants to have their short run of porn fame, enjoy getting rammed (or ramming), enjoy the attention, then get tossed aside around 30 or so (or whenever the fuck the age is where you're considered too old to look good on the screen), I guess that's fine by me. Thing is, based on reading some of the things that Rehab linked, I get the impression that most young women who start in the porn industry don't know what the fuck they're getting themselves into in the long-term. That's what I mean when I say it's 'harmful'.

Maybe I should post an example or something because it's three in the fucking morning, I'm tired and irate, and I'm pretty sure I'm still not being any more clear than I was in my last tl;dr wall-o-text response.

Of course there are women who regret doing pornography and don't know what they're getting into. That's true of literally every profession and career in existence though. The issue you should have should not be whether some people had a bad time, because people make mistakes or just plain can't foresee what is going to happen in life, but whether the industry by the nature of its operation is harmful and exploitative. And it's not. The simple act of having sex with another and filming it for consumers is not innately harmful, even if some harm can come of it. So the answer is not what to do about porn, but what to do about the bad things that sometimes happen in the porn industry. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Esau of Isaac

[Alfred Kamon]

Hm, answering to the OP...

Masturbating may be considered natural.

But nobody is constricted to do that anyway- we have our own urges and our own ways to deal with them.

Porn, however, is all but natural. And it can become an ADDICTION. It's a drug, no less, no more.

If any of you don't believe me, well, you probably are uninformed, or not enough honest to yourself (if you think it's not an addiction, then I ask to those guys who watch porn regularly... try to not watch it for, like, one month. Just try it.)

- So, what does porn do to the brain?

I think you might find this article to be quite interesting.

If you are a bit lazy to go through that wall of text (though I really suggest you to spend few minutes of your time reading it), just know that every time you watch (please note: I didn't say masturbate to) porn, you produce deltaFosB. From that article:

The molecular switch that initiates many of these addiction-related behaviors is the protein DeltaFosB. Continued over-consumption of natural rewards (sex, sugar, high-fat, aerobic exercise) or chronic administration of virtually any drug of abuse causes DeltaFosB to slowly accumulate in the reward circuitry.

[...]

The accumulation of DeltaFosB and the molecular changes it generates are nearly identical for both sexual conditioning and drugs of abuse.

This video also is quite explicative.

- Why do people watch porn?

There are two main reasons for that.

1) Because people are fucking perverts and they do like watching porn~ Simple as that. (hey, there's nothing wrong being perverts! Probably everybody has a pervert side)

2) Because porn is an easy and accessible way to reward your brain.

This time I'll quote part of a really beautiful post on an interesting forum:

You're very stressed about work or school. You spent all your day working your ass under pressure and you know that the upcoming days are going to be the same. There's pain in your body. You're mentally exhausted. You want to relax and feel good. So what do you do? Watch porn.

You go out to have fun one night. There's one girl you really like, so you try to talk to her, but she keeps ignoring you. One of your more outgoing friends keeps making her laugh with his jokes. You're jealous. You say to yourself "Fuck this shit" and start approaching other women right there. They all reject you. Even one of them said to you "Get away from me!". You go back home feeling incredibly frustrated. Your mood is very down. You start to wonder if you'll ever be able to get a beautiful girlfriend. You get temporarily depressed. It's painful. You want to escape these feelings. So what do you do? Watch porn.

You went out drinking last night. You had a lot of fun, but now you're left with a terrible hangover. You have a headache, nausea, stomach pain. You can't concentrate or do anything. You're just lying there drinking some Gatorade. Obviously, being hungover sucks. You want to stop feeling bad, at least for a few moments. So what do you do? Watch porn.

You're bored as fuck in your house. You and laziness become one. You're not in the mood for anything, not even watching a movie. Boredom, boredom, and more boredom. Who wants to feel bored? Nobody. Time runs slowly. Nothing is fun. You go to Facebook and there are no interesting updates. You refresh your favorite forums and there are no new replies to your posts. There's nothing to do. You start becoming anxious and restless. So what do you do? Watch porn.

Please, stop this.

You need to stop medicating yourself with porn every time you feel pain and discomfort.

Men tend to feel shame and discomfort when they masturbate to porn. Eventually, porn brings them to manifest social anxiety, depression, inability to enjoy 'simple' things that aren't as interesting as porn, and other psychological issues. But also, some physical problems like porn-induced erectile disfunction.

When that discomfort and sadness overwhelms them, how do they comfort themselves? By watching some more porn.

It's a loop.

- Just my two cents

Serenes isn't the proper place to talk about porn issues, probably. So I'll keep this post short.

If any of the people who read this post watch porn abitually, and they have feelings of guilt and/or are unhappy of their life and watch porn to have some 'shameful pleasure'... then you should consider the fact that you may be addicted, or that you may have some problems that need to be solved, rather than drowned in porn for a few minutes. The websites I linked may help you.

If you watch porn and you are perfectly fine with it (no feelings of guilt, no stress or social anxiety or brain fog) then I've nothing to say to you. It either means you are either so much into it that you can't tell you're addicted or, at the opposite, that you've just accepted it as a part of yourself and you're perfectly fine with it.

If you don't watch porn, props to you~

Edited May 7, 2014 by Alfred Kamon

[Tryhard]

A lot of things can become addicting. Video games, for example. Thrill seeking. A lot of things in fact, that don't need to include actual physical addiction like illegal drugs or such.

Playing video games is a positive reward system that could be considered a "drug" by your definition.

So while it is possible that porn can be addicting, humans tend to seek an easy reward system. In a lot of things. But I don't think someone who occasionally watches porn is really addicted at all.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Tryhard

[The Geek]

So wait, are we only talking porn or is hentai fair game here as well?

[dondon151]

- Just my two cents

If any of the people who read this post watch porn abitually, and they have feelings of guilt and/or are unhappy of their life and watch porn to have some 'shameful pleasure'... then you should consider the fact that you may be addicted, or that you may have some problems that need to be solved, rather than drowned in porn for a few minutes. The websites I linked may help you.

If you watch porn and you are perfectly fine with it (no feelings of guilt, no stress or social anxiety or brain fog) then I've nothing to say to you. It either means you are either so much into it that you can't tell you're addicted or, at the opposite, that you've just accepted it as a part of yourself and you're perfectly fine with it.

If you don't watch porn, props to you~

this is a terrible false dichotomy. if i watch porn even somewhat habitually, either i'm addicted to porn and am aware of it, or i'm addicted to porn but in denial.

a behavior's potential to be addictive does not automatically mean that it is bad to engage in. many behaviors can be addictive. the article that you linked to specifically gives examples of behaviors that stimulate the same reward circuitry in the brain. none of these are bad. if i tell you that i like to eat chocolate cake, or that i like to drive around in fancy muscle cars, or that i like to down a couple of whiskey shots every now and then, your immediate reaction is not to categorize me as some hopeless addict. so i encourage you to divest yourself of this line of reasoning.

Edited May 8, 2014 by dondon151

[BANRYU]

stuff that was said

I'm pretty burnt out on this topic by now; I will just say that I'm sorry for getting so rude and irate, and thank you for bearing with me and remaining polite and rational despite my relative failure to do so.

All in all yeah, my ignorance is pretty counterproductive to the arguments I made... I agree with that and don't have too much else to say. I would like to point out that I never said that women don't enjoy porn too, I'm totally aware that there are women who prioritize sexual pleasure over emotional comfort and stability.

Also, as Rehab said, one of the things I was trying to say is that it's not really any woman's ideal career. If we're using the retail analogy, it's the kind of job that you take because you HAVE to (or even if you want to for the short term), but unlike having a fast food job on your resume (which is just unimpressive), having a background as an actress in the porn industry seems like it can actually hurt a woman (or man)'s chances of getting a more desirable job. But as we've established, I really don't know for sure.

((You basically said the opposite of this and I kinda didn't see it before I wrote this but I wrote it already so I don't want to delete it even though it's stupid so bleh. Could go either way I suppose, I guess it depends on the career someone wants to get into. Too many variables for me to make such a sweeping generalization eck))

In the end, yeah I agree, the things that need to be stopped are the harmful practices. Point conceded that not all porn is innately harmful to its actors/actresses.

I remembered that Jenna Jameson got some awful plastic surgery and I really wanted to post a picture of her being all gross but she's not nearly as gross as I was hoping for lol. Oh well

As to the addicting nature of porn, it's just like anything else; exercise self-control and it's not a problem. If people watch pretty sparingly that seems okay to me I guess (I don't have to like it, but as we've established there's more to the issue than just liking it or not).

Ruling out harmful practices in the industry, I guess you could just call it a masturbation tool. Just don't spend a ton of time on it whether in one sitting or across a time period, that's definitely unhealthy.

This is just an aside, but another reason I kind of look down on porn is when guys allow it to give them unrealistic expectations of what they should expect in a relationship, both in terms of women's appearance and their behavior (I'll stand by what I said that most of it is made for men). People on SF are pretty smart and I trust that people here know better than to think this, but porn should NEVER be the basis for someone's ideal relationship in any sense.

so much for being burnt out look at all this shit I wrote

I'm done you guys GG

Edited May 8, 2014 by BANRYU

[Wen Yang]

Hentai is a form of porn, so why not?

[Rehab]

https://www.againstpornography.org/socialsciencestudies.html

I was trying to make a relatively evenhanded post about the recorded studies of pornographies effects on its viewers, my lack of familiarity with the (numerous) studies cited there and the responses to them, repeating the question of what exactly is porn (stills, films-only, animation, explicit sex only or merely material designed to be masturbated to, and where does the line for that stop, etc), any kind of hypothetical tradeoff where having porn could be argued to be better overall than not having porn because the negative effects of the latter would be worse and blah blah blah but my post got fucking eaten. So, there's the link to a fucking imposing wall of supposed downsides/negative effects of consuming porn on viewers. Some of the included being:

Findings of social science research have shown that prolonged exposure to pornography resulted in:
-- a diminution, and eventually loss, of repulsion evoked by common pornography;
-- an increasing need for pornography featuring less common forms of sexuality, including forms that entail some degree of violence;
-- an alteration of one's perceptions of “common” sexual behavior;
-- a decrease of trust among sexual intimates;
-- an increase of tolerance for violations of sexual exclusivity (Moral condemnation of sexual improprieties diminishes sharply); -- a diminution of the desire for progeny (The strongest effect of this kind concerns the desire of females for female offspring);
-- a discontent with the physical appearance and sexual performance of intimate partners;
-- a loss of compassion toward women as rape victims and toward women in general;
-- a loss of concern about the effects of pornography on others;
-- a need for more violent and bizarre forms of sex;
-- a desensitization to violent, hardcore pornography;
-- an increasing acceptance of rape myths;
-- an increased insensitivity toward victims of sexual violence;
-- a trivialization of rape as a criminal offense;
-- a trivialization of child sexual abuse as a criminal offense;
-- a promotion of men's belief of having the propensity for forcing particular sexual acts on reluctant sexual partners;
-- a predisposition of the willingness to rape;
-- an increasing sexual callousness;
-- an increasing acceptance of violence against women.

God I'm just so fucking ma- this keyboard fucking fuck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=s6wPzaOIqdw

Edited May 8, 2014 by Rehab

[Alfred Kamon]

this is a terrible false dichotomy. if i watch porn even somewhat habitually, either i'm addicted to porn and am aware of it, or i'm addicted to porn but in denial.

a behavior's potential to be addictive does not automatically mean that it is bad to engage in. many behaviors can be addictive. the article that you linked to specifically gives examples of behaviors that stimulate the same reward circuitry in the brain. none of these are bad. if i tell you that i like to eat chocolate cake, or that i like to drive around in fancy muscle cars, or that i like to down a couple of whiskey shots every now and then, your immediate reaction is not to categorize me as some hopeless addict. so i encourage you to divest yourself of this line of reasoning.

Don't get me wrong. When I said " you've just accepted it as a part of yourself and you're perfectly fine with it." I wasn't implying that you were an addict.

You may be an addict and be fine with it, or you could just watch porn every once in a while and be fine with it. That's what I meant.

Also, watching porn per se isn't addicting, it becomes an addiction when you hyperstimulate your brain and produce an excessive amount of deltaFosB. How much deltaFosB is "too much" deltaFosB? Well, it depends. People are different, and they react differently to stimuli. If someone here watches porn everyday, or even once every two-three days, chances are high that he's addicted. But again, we're talking about "chances". I'm not accusing anyone and categorising people isn't part of my line of thoughts.

My deepest apologies if I expressed myself poorly in the last few lines of the last post.

P.S. Please note that it's way easier to produce an excessive amount of deltaFosB with porn rather than with a ton of chocolate cakes. Eating a chocolate cake is fine; eating a ton of cakes isn't. The problem is that the equivalent of "a ton of cakes" in porn is.. well, not that much. That's why you never see a chocolate cake addict. ;)

Edited May 8, 2014 by Alfred Kamon

[Chiki]

if i watch porn even somewhat habitually, either i'm addicted to porn and am aware of it, or i'm addicted to porn but in denial.

An addiction is not something so light. It's a habit for me to drink cranberry juice, but that doesn't mean I'm addicted to it. I could just drink limeade or something instead. One of the defining features of addiction is that you'd be greatly bothered without the presence of it and go through some kind of addiction withdrawal. Making a habit of something does not mean you'll go through withdrawal.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Chiki

[dondon151]

An addiction is not something so light. It's a habit for me to drink cranberry juice, but that doesn't mean I'm addicted to it. I could just drink limeade or something instead. One of the defining features of addiction is that you'd be greatly bothered without the presence of it and go through some kind of addiction withdrawal. Making a habit of something does not mean you'll go through withdrawal.

no, i agree with you. i was making a mockery of alfred kamon's point. if you're saying that a habit is not necessarily an addiction (and please correct me if i'm wrong), then that was also what i implied.

[BANRYU]

Porn is something that CAN be addicting if you let it be, but it's hardly comparable to something like nicotine in terms of addictive qualities, yeah. If someone allows himself to develop an addiction, it can definitely be harmful, but that's pretty much true of all potentially-addictive activities. I'd say addiction to porn is probably worse than something like addiction to video games (assuming equal levels of addiction), I guess.

[Shadow Knight]

Porn's fine but there are limits. For example I was supposed to study for final exams but instead got really bored and procrastinated. So I looked up what ppl consider a decent hentai series. Saw a couple sites that recommended Bible Black and I checked out both the series and the game.

After about half an hour or so I proceeded to delete the game file from my computer, completely delete my internet history, and solemnly vowed that I would never watch it again. Imo, it was far too sick and depraved to watch. It was the 1st time I actually felt ashamed for watching porn. *Shudder* I'm never going back to that series again.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Shadow Knight

[Wen Yang]

Porn's fine but there are limits. For example I was supposed to study for final exams but instead got really bored and procrastinated. So I looked up what ppl consider a decent hentai series. Saw a couple sites that recommended Bible Black and I checked out both the series and the game.

After about half an hour or so I proceeded to delete the game file from my computer, completely delete my internet history, and solemnly vowed that I would never watch it again. Imo, it was far too sick and depraved to watch. It was the 1st time I actually felt ashamed for watching porn. *Shudder* I'm never going back to that series again.

Wait WTF!?

"Bible Black". "Decent Hentai series". In the same sentence?

I mean, not disparaging Bible Black, but it's pretty... sick content wise for most people.

I think you need to get opinion from people more qualified to give opinion, IMO.

Edit: Now go play Sengoku Rance. ^_^

Edited May 9, 2014 by Kopfjäger

[Shadow Knight]

Wait WTF!?

"Bible Black". "Decent Hentai series". In the same sentence?

I mean, not disparaging Bible Black, but it's pretty... sick content wise for most people.

I think you need to get opinion from people more qualified to give opinion, IMO.

Edit: Now go play Sengoku Rance. ^_^

I appreciate the recommendation but I think I'm going to take a looooong break from hentai for a while. I actually wanted to delete the game about 5 minutes after I got it but I kept playing so I could kill the main antagonist and save Imari. Was it worth the time and mental despair? Maybe not. But it did make me feel better.

[--------------------]

Edit: Now go play Sengoku Rance. ^_^

I second this. (since you were fine with bible black)

[Chiki]

no, i agree with you. i was making a mockery of alfred kamon's point. if you're saying that a habit is not necessarily an addiction (and please correct me if i'm wrong), then that was also what i implied.

My bad.

The problem is that the equivalent of "a ton of cakes" in porn is.. well, not that much. That's why you never see a chocolate cake addict. ;)

..You see them often. Obese people for example. You can become an addict of any kind of thing. Some things are just easier to get addicted to.

[Magical CC]

Wait WTF!?

"Bible Black". "Decent Hentai series". In the same sentence?

I mean, not disparaging Bible Black, but it's pretty... sick content wise for most people.

Just wanna let you know. Bible Black is the first visual novel I read. The second is Divi Dead. So yeah...