NFL 2014-2015 Season: Super Bowl Champion Patriots

[Lord Raven]

The defense would win. I don't think the finesse receivers of the Steelers can handle Revis or big brute Browner + McCourty and a revitalized Pat Chung.

I don't care what you think, though, remember? So you might as well stop arguing against all my opinions.

Ah the petulance! Remember what people said to you about being thick skinned?

To any of you who watched the game last night, that was a Patriots defense that was without its best pass rusher or linebacker. This defense can and will carry us to the Super Bowl if everyone stays healthy. Of course, that's a very, very big if.

I mean your offense was supposed to be able to torch our middle-of-the-road defense in 2012 but look how that turned out! Actually, your defense is fuckin' legit, I hope we manage to somehow have a good shot at you guys at the AFCCG and at least come within earshot. Fuck the Patriots. They're like our estranged evil twin brother. The Bart to our Hugo (it was revealed at the end of the episode that Bart was the evil twin ftr)

Meanwhile we spent a whole quarter dicking around before basically snapping Tannehill in two without our best block eater in Haloti Ngata. If we win out we're guaranteed playoffs so he'll be back by then.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

Do you remember how many times you've put some kind of comment on something I say? And you did it again just now too by saying you think the Pats' defense would beat the Steelers' offense.

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but I do think that it would be the ultimate test for Ben's several weapons, particularly Le'Veon Bell and Antonio Brown. Defenses all over the league so far have had trouble shutting them down, even good ones like the Ravens and Colts got torched. You can't even double cover Brown, he beats that too. He's like an offensive JJ Watt, just smaller. They're not perfect though (see the Jets game, for example. >_>), so as I just said, it'd be the ultimate test.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Anacybele

[Lord Raven]

As I said, Jimmy Smith could shut down Antonio Brown pretty effectively, leaving him to only get garbage time yards. The main reason he went nutso against us was because Jimmy Smith was injured.

Brandon Browner is essentially bigger but can't cover as well, and Revis has been a top (possibly THE top) corner in the game for a while and only matches up poorly to like Stevie Johnson. There is a reason people predicted the Pats were done because they acquired some pretty ridiculous talent and made nothing of it. Them and the Broncos were the two most feared teams coming into the regular season for a reason.

Meanwhile put some pressure on Ben and shut down Bell and that offense doesn't work. Our pass rush started fizzling out after the first quarter but the other thing about the Steelers is that they torched us after they started protecting Ben better, because Bell couldn't run the ball and Ben was missing throws left and right. The first Steelers game he had almost no time in the pocket, and it looked like that's what happened against the Jets and the Saints. Pats can put pressure and cover. That's going to make like miserable for any QB.

Did you not watch the same Super Bowl that I did last year or what? Same shit happened to Manning. Pressure with the front 4 and ONLY the front 4 and dropping 7 into coverage every other time. Avril, Bryant, and Bennett completely victimized the Denver OL every game and Peyton didn't have ANY time to throw. Same exact shit, except the Steelers team/offense has a Jeckyl and Hyde thing going on.

Do you remember how many times you've put some kind of comment on something I say? And you did it again just now too by saying you think the Pats' defense would beat the Steelers' offense.

I don't get what this has to do with you being thick skinned and out-and-out wrong about things.

[-Cynthia-]

The Pats defense is looking pretty strong.

21 to Denver

20 to Indianapolis

9 to Detroit

26 to Green Bay

14 to San Diego

Probably all top 10 teams, 4 of those with top quarterbacks.

I don't see the Jags upsetting the Ravens again here since it's in Baltimore, although it's similar in that the Jaguars are not very good and their defense is better than their offense. Jags have also played well against the AFC North this year relatively speaking.

[Lord Raven]

Though if anything, Baltimore's been the most consistent part of the AFCN. Close games - secondary chokes or allows scores. Offense puts up points. Run run run and Flacco manages to pass pretty efficiently. Weaker teams tend to get beat by us, the only weak team we've struggled against this year was like Tennessee (and that was right before our bye).

Look no further than the Bengals. Allow 37 to Carolina, had their way with Atlanta and New Orleans. Steelers, 1-2 against the NFC South and a loss to the Jets. Browns...

B

R

O

W

N

S

Edited December 8, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

As I said, Jimmy Smith could shut down Antonio Brown pretty effectively, leaving him to only get garbage time yards. The main reason he went nutso against us was because Jimmy Smith was injured.

Brandon Browner is essentially bigger but can't cover as well, and Revis has been a top (possibly THE top) corner in the game for a while and only matches up poorly to like Stevie Johnson. There is a reason people predicted the Pats were done because they acquired some pretty ridiculous talent and made nothing of it. Them and the Broncos were the two most feared teams coming into the regular season for a reason.

Meanwhile put some pressure on Ben and shut down Bell and that offense doesn't work. Our pass rush started fizzling out after the first quarter but the other thing about the Steelers is that they torched us after they started protecting Ben better, because Bell couldn't run the ball and Ben was missing throws left and right. The first Steelers game he had almost no time in the pocket, and it looked like that's what happened against the Jets and the Saints. Pats can put pressure and cover. That's going to make like miserable for any QB.

Did you not watch the same Super Bowl that I did last year or what? Same shit happened to Manning. Pressure with the front 4 and ONLY the front 4 and dropping 7 into coverage every other time. Avril, Bryant, and Bennett completely victimized the Denver OL every game and Peyton didn't have ANY time to throw. Same exact shit, except the Steelers team/offense has a Jeckyl and Hyde thing going on.

I don't get what this has to do with you being thick skinned and out-and-out wrong about things.

And there you go again, putting your two cents on my comment. I'm honestly getting tired of it. Can you go ONE day without doing this?

I'm not saying I disagree, because I do agree that the Ravens have been the most consistent AFC North team and that the Steelers would have an even better offense if they could be more consistent themselves. The o-line has shown the ability to be excellent, they didn't let the Colts' front seven get anywhere near Ben for the most part. They also never let the Bengals bring him down, although they did almost do it once. Ben was just smart and threw the ball away in the nick of time. Our receivers are great, almost all of them have made nice contributions. The only exceptions, I would say, are Heyward-Bey who just sucks and Dri Archer, who either needs more practice or should just go take up track instead of football. And of course, we have the best run game in the league because Le'Veon Bell. Best all-around RB in the league. Bunch of people have said it already.

But other times, the whole offense has just been a complete mess, which you actually described pretty well. And I don't get why this is happening... It's just really facepalm worthy. Jekyll and Hyde is a pretty good way to describe it, honestly.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Anacybele

[Lord Raven]

Then stop being fucking wrong and almost willfully ignorant. You didn't even really respond to any of my points about the actual Patriots.

And of course, we have the best run game in the league because Le'Veon Bell. Best all-around RB in the league. Bunch of people have said it already.

By what metric? Forsett has 130 less yards on 50 less carries (a solid .4 or .5 YPC difference) more 20+ yard runs, more touchdowns. As a runner, Forsett is more reliable than Bell. Then we have Taliaferro and Pierce sharing the load and while Pierce is doing somewhat poorly Taliaferro is shredding it everytime he totes the rock save one fumble against the Steelers.. in which case, Bell did poorly against the Ravens last time we played.

Best run game is either Cowboys, Chiefs, Seahawks, Texans, or Ravens, by far. We have 9 more rushing TDs than the Steelers and 150 more rush yards. The only team I mentioned that doesn't have 8-9 more TDs than the Steelers are the Cowboys.

Charles is a much, much better all around... Murray has more all purpose yards... Lynch has power and Russell Wilson himself has like 700 yards rushing despite being a pass first guy. And let's not forget about ol' reliable Arian Foster and the whole Texans backfield.

And I don't get why this is happening...

I explained part of it and it's definitely pressure. Bengals are not good at pressuring the QB (which makes our week 1 game against them really weird in retrospect because they were getting all sorts of pressure on Flacco - I guess our division hates him), Colts are up and down, but they would get absolutely crushed by the Pats total package at defense. Edited December 9, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

You act like I'm wrong on purpose. I'm not. Honestly. I don't try to be wrong. I try to do my research, it just seems that more often than not, I unknowingly don't do enough.

And no, I'm wondering why the Steelers can't beat/have trouble against bad teams but totally torch good ones (except for that second game vs the Browns. Dunno what happened there, really). They struggled against the Jags and Titans despite winning, and just messed up entirely against the Bucs, Jets, and Saints. Arguably, the Saints aren't really bad, but they're all teams with losing records.

I have to agree with the fans and say that it's poor coaching somewhere. Either Tomlin just isn't properly preparing the guys when they're facing a losing team or Haley isn't properly preparing the offense. The defense has just been average to poor all season.

And the only reason Bell doesn't have more rushing TDs than the RBs on the teams you mentioned is that he's also been playing WR. He currently has the most receptions by RBs and the most receiving TDs. He also has some rushing TDs anyway though, most of which are ones where he just powered through and stretched the ball across the line. He also has made multiple runs of more than ten yards. And have you forgotten his 81 yard run against the Panthers and his 53 yard run just this Sunday vs the Bengals? I'm sorry, but I'm not wrong here. Bell is the best, no question.

Also, Arian Foster got shut down by our defense. The STEELER defense.

Oh yeah, and the reason your Ravens have more rushing TDs and yards is because you have more depth at RB. Bell is literally all we have besides the new backup named Josh Harris and Bell's been carrying the team, not just the run game.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Anacybele

[Lord Raven]

Forsett has 8 rush TDs and Flacco has 2. That's 10 which is still > 7 without even going into our depth. We have 6 between Pierce and Taliaferro but Forsett has less rush yards but gets enough on each carry to not only burn clock but he also gets TDs and has made much bigger plays. Forsett has more 20+ yard runs than Bell and literally the entire NFL - the only player that comes close is Murray. Our run game as a whole is much, much better than the Steelers, and same with the dudes I listed. Isn't depth even more indicative of a good run game?

Because our OL has the best set of run blockers in the league - you know Wagner and Yanda are head and shoulders above all RT/RGs in the league and Osemele is the best LG in the league right? Zuttah is a Top 3 Center. The only weak link we've really got is Monroe and he's getting a lot better.

Forte has 15 more receptions than Bell.

Also, Arian Foster got shut down by our defense. The STEELER defense.

Whats your point? Bell got roasted by our D. Foster's vision is only really rivaled by like Forsett. There's a very compelling case that Forsett is a better runner. Furthermore, Forsett is averaging a half yard more YPC than Bell (5.6 vs 5.1). Jamaal Charles is also averaging more YPC and while he doesn't have as many yards he's a better all around weapon because the Chiefs don't have the same tempo on offense than the Steelers do so his bulk stats won't match up. Chiefs still have a better all-around run game, and Lynch/Charles are much better run blockers.

In terms of bulk rush yards I listed the top 5 as well.

Also you're underrating the pressure. Titans, Jaguars, Jets, Ravens #1 and Ravens #2 first quarter were just ramming him hard. That's why the Steelers O has shit the bed. The OL is the real Jeckyll and Hyde, because there's a common denominator here.

[chococoke]

we still ain't getting mayo back before the super bowl though.

I was actually talking about Hightower. Mayo is a superb signal caller, but he's an overpaid inside LB who doesn't really make plays even when he is healthy

[Randa]

I was actually talking about Hightower. Mayo is a superb signal caller, but he's an overpaid inside LB who doesn't really make plays even when he is healthy

Not really. Think teddy, wasn't a phenomenal athlete, by NFL standards, but you'd still rather have him on the field then off. That's not to say didn't become significantly less useful in those last two or three years, but he was still pretty important. Same thing with mayo, aside from the obvious facts that Hightower still isn't great in coverage and Collins is only in his second year in the league, mayo is one of the parts that helps the defense when he's healthy.

People said the same shit about spikes when he got here. He's gonna replace mayo, be the next big thing, just gotta fix the pass coverage then he's a pro-bowler. There's a reason Mayo is still here.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Randa

[Anacybele]

Forsett has 8 rush TDs and Flacco has 2. That's 10 which is still > 7 without even going into our depth. We have 6 between Pierce and Taliaferro but Forsett has less rush yards but gets enough on each carry to not only burn clock but he also gets TDs and has made much bigger plays. Forsett has more 20+ yard runs than Bell and literally the entire NFL - the only player that comes close is Murray. Our run game as a whole is much, much better than the Steelers, and same with the dudes I listed. Isn't depth even more indicative of a good run game?

Because our OL has the best set of run blockers in the league - you know Wagner and Yanda are head and shoulders above all RT/RGs in the league and Osemele is the best LG in the league right? Zuttah is a Top 3 Center. The only weak link we've really got is Monroe and he's getting a lot better.

Forte has 15 more receptions than Bell.

Whats your point? Bell got roasted by our D. Foster's vision is only really rivaled by like Forsett. There's a very compelling case that Forsett is a better runner. Furthermore, Forsett is averaging a half yard more YPC than Bell (5.6 vs 5.1). Jamaal Charles is also averaging more YPC and while he doesn't have as many yards he's a better all around weapon because the Chiefs don't have the same tempo on offense than the Steelers do so his bulk stats won't match up. Chiefs still have a better all-around run game, and Lynch/Charles are much better run blockers.

In terms of bulk rush yards I listed the top 5 as well.

Also you're underrating the pressure. Titans, Jaguars, Jets, Ravens #1 and Ravens #2 first quarter were just ramming him hard. That's why the Steelers O has shit the bed. The OL is the real Jeckyll and Hyde, because there's a common denominator here.

Then you just explained yourself why Forsett has more yards than Bell. He's got a better o-line to give him space. You also said the same about Murray awhile back when I brought up Bell some pages ago. That he's running behind a good o-line, an o-line you also said is the best in the league.

Bell has gotten plenty of yards and some rush TDs with an o-line that's only good like 50% of the time. He saved these guys' asses against the Titans and carried the team again against the Bengals not counting Bryant's 94 yard bomb from Ben.

Also, I agree that our o-line has been Jekyll and Hyde. But so has the rest of the offense. Ben was horrible against the Saints. Antonio Brown fucked up against the Jets. Bell was kind of quiet for the next couple games after the hot streak in weeks 7-9. Then anyone knows that the team had penalty problems against the Bucs. The defense has actually been the only consistent part of the team, and they're still only average. Mike Tomlin and Todd Haley aren't doing something right.

And even if it really is the o-line at the root of the problem, then it still falls to the o-line coach to get them in line and be more consistent.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Anacybele

[dondon151]

You act like I'm wrong on purpose. I'm not. Honestly. I don't try to be wrong. I try to do my research, it just seems that more often than not, I unknowingly don't do enough.

socrates says: the only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. he also says: stop being so damn defensive when you've been called out on being wrong.

[Anacybele]

I know I don't know as much about the NFL as some other people. I admit to not knowing as much as Lord Raven does. He's even taught me some things I hadn't known before, whether he meant to or not.

And what do you mean defensive? I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I know I've been defensive about some things in the past, but I don't recall that happening anywhere here. I've admitted to being wrong about some things in this thread. I just won't admit to it when I'm not wrong. That just doesn't make any sense. I might not directly say that I'm wrong, but I've changed my thinking on some things.

If I don't think I'm wrong, but it turns out later that I am, okay, I have to deal with it. But if I think I'm right, I think I'm right, whether I'm actually wrong or not. I just made a mistake if I'm wrong, that's all. Like I said, I don't know every single little thing and I'm still learning. I'm going to unknowingly say something that's incorrect on occasion. Everyone does this, in fact, no matter how knowledgeable they are. We're only human, after all.

[Lord Raven]

I never said Forsett > Bell I said that our run game is better and Forsett is playing better than Bell.

Forsett is not that talent, just very patient, has amazing vision and bursts through the hole. It leads to us having a superior run game - our collection of backs is why our bulk rush yards are higher but it's not why we have more rush TDs.

As I said we have a top 5 run game and arguably (this is the key word because you can argue the other dudes I listed) the best run game in the NFL. Steelers are nowhere close.

I still think Charles is the best back in the league though. Murray is playing best but I'd take Charles as an all purpose guy over everyone. Really sad though because if we still had Ray Rice then we'd probably continue a Rice vs Charles argument that has lain dormant since 2012

Edited December 9, 2014 by Lord Raven

[General Banzai]

Go Packers!

[-Cynthia-]

Picks for this week:

Arizona at St. Louis- Rams are actually looking like the better team right now, even though they'll miss the playoffs

Houston at Indianapolis- Texans haven't been able to beat good teams this year, especially on the road

Green Bay at Buffalo- I don't think the Bills offense can keep up here

Tampa Bay at Carolina- Panthers certainly looked good last week and I have no confidence in the Bucs

Cincinnati at Cleveland- Browns seem to be trending downward and them sweeping the Bengals would be weird

Pittsburgh at Atlanta- Steelers just had a big win but haven't been able to be consistently successful this season. Falcons offense is playing well.

Jacksonville at Baltimore- I don't think the Jaguars can do much offensively here

Washington at New York Giants- Redskins look like they've given up

Miami at New England- Patriots at home yadda yadda

Oakland at Kansas City- Not going to pick Oakland to win consecutive games

Denver at San Diego- I think the Broncos are better on both sides of the ball

New York Jets at Tennessee- Jets look less bad

San Francisco at Seattle- Niners can't score, Seahawks defense looks like it's in last year's form

Minnesota at Detroit- I don't think the Vikings can do much offensively here

Dallas at Philadelphia- After the way the Eagles handled them on Thanksgiving it's tough to pick the Cowboys here

New Orleans at Chicago- Saints are a roller coaster, but the Bears are a total mess especially without Brandon Marshall

[Lord Raven]

if we win out, bengals drop one, steelers drop one, then the division is ours

#prayforatlanta

[Anacybele]

I never said Forsett > Bell I said that our run game is better and Forsett is playing better than Bell.

Forsett is not that talent, just very patient, has amazing vision and bursts through the hole. It leads to us having a superior run game - our collection of backs is why our bulk rush yards are higher but it's not why we have more rush TDs.

Bell is both talented AND very patient and has amazing vision. He hurdles people, he does spin moves, he can catch passes OR take handoffs. He can block too. Can Forsett do all that? I doubt it. The guy's a rookie, isn't he? If not, well, then he's not, but still.

But fine, we'll think what we want to. Maybe the Ravens do have a better run game overall, but I still think Bell is the best all-around RB in the league.

Speaking of which, both him and Ben are up for the Fed Ex awards. Wee. And considering their stats compared to the other nominees, they both have a good shot at winning! Paint some black and gold all over Fed Ex!

Martavis Bryant is also up for Pepsi Rookie of the Week, but I dunno if that one huge TD is enough for him to get it. Still, I'm just glad to see that week 8 and 9 Steeler team finally show up again. And they need to stick around. If we win out, we get in the playoffs. And these guys know it. The Atlanta game worries me though, of course...

[Lord Raven]

Forsett is a 29 year old journeyman running back that most Ravens fans thought would not survive the preseason. But his vision is probably the best among current running backs - he's averaging a full half yard more than the next best guy per carry and he does it with so much consistency. Bell is a better overall back but Forsett's running has been much better and more consistent as a whole. The overall run game of the Ravens is pretty far above every team that's not in the Top 5 rushing - and the Top 5 rushing are Dallas, Baltimore, Kansas City, Seattle, and Houston.

The best part is that Forsett's best aspect of all of those guys is his vision and initial burst. He gets caught from behind fairly easily and he's not a danger in open space but that's forgiven because he finds the right spot, makes his cut, then breaks loose for a 5-10 yard gain with a beautiful sense of consistency. A lot of RBs in the league cannot and do not do that. As I said, if you look at the number of 20+ yard gains - basically two first downs worth of runs - Forsett has 14 and Murray has 13. The next highest are Foster and Bell with 8. On top of averaging 5.6 YPC compared to the second place Charles who is at 5.2 and Bell at 5.1, he is quite possibly the most efficient runner in the league right now despite lacking a lot of the physical tools that other RBs have. Whether or not he's the best RB is up for debate - I think Forte, Lynch, and Charles are better than Bell and McCoy is coming back to form which would place Bell pretty solidly at #4- but the pure rushing efficiency and consistency of our offense completely trumps the Steelers' run game as a whole. I think you are spending too much time worrying about individuals forgetting that this is a team game that that a run game isn't defined by single players but the depth and consistency.

I think if you take all of our backs into account we're solidly leading the league in 20+ yard runs. And that's definitely including Flacco in there, who has broken off around 1 or 2.

EDIT: Yeah I was right about this. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2014&seasonType=REG&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=RUSHING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH <- Baltimore has 20, Seattle has 16, and the 7th best teams have 10.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Anacybele]

Okay, I suppose some depth IS required to have the best run game... See, I'm admitting to being wrong here. No further argument here.

But I still think Bell is a top 3 RB AT LEAST.

So, Tomlin offered the guys a day off yesterday...but they refused. That is so cool. Tomlin my man, you could learn something from your own guys.

[Randa]

Picks for this week:

Houston at Indianapolis- Texans haven't been able to beat good teams this year, especially on the road

But jj watt.

[-Cynthia-]

But jj watt.

He's good and all, but the Texans are 0-5 this year against teams 8-5 or better.

[Anacybele]

JJ Watt is pretty much the only thing the Texans have. And he can only do so much, regardless of how good he is.

[chococoke]

Not really. Think teddy, wasn't a phenomenal athlete, by NFL standards, but you'd still rather have him on the field then off. That's not to say didn't become significantly less useful in those last two or three years, but he was still pretty important. Same thing with mayo, aside from the obvious facts that Hightower still isn't great in coverage and Collins is only in his second year in the league, mayo is one of the parts that helps the defense when he's healthy.

People said the same shit about spikes when he got here. He's gonna replace mayo, be the next big thing, just gotta fix the pass coverage then he's a pro-bowler. There's a reason Mayo is still here.

Hightower has actually improved in coverage a good deal, as well as done a good job filling in as the signal-caller on defense. Jamie Collins has really turned up his game in the past 5 weeks or so, and appears to be making the "second year jump." Also, was Bruschi's cap hit ever in the range of $10+ mil like Mayo? I honestly would rather have that money allocated to a pass rusher or to keep Revis beyond this year