a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 mandibuzz was hyped to hell and back at the beginning of the gen but it dont really hold up with pokebank being a thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 So Comet and I had a battle earlier. Guts Flareon, as expected was pretty dangerous, and even got two Flame Charges to boost its Speed insanely. But then Mega Lucario promptly wrecked my team. Should've used my Talonflame over Sceptile. >_> yeah, gg. i probably shouldn't have used mega luc, but i had just raised it so i wanted to see it in action. i could have timed out the toxic orb regardless though, with predicting whether you'd use facade or flare blitz. guts flareon is a powerhouse nonetheless. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 mandibuzz was hyped to hell and back at the beginning of the gen but it dont really hold up with pokebank being a thing Ah, damn shame. yeah, gg. i probably shouldn't have used mega luc, but i had just raised it so i wanted to see it in action. i could have timed out the toxic orb regardless though, with predicting whether you'd use facade or flare blitz. guts flareon is a powerhouse nonetheless. :D Yeah, glad Flareon's a lot more useful in this gen. ^^ And lol don't worry, I understand. We both now know that Mega Lucario is banned for a reason. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 They banned Venomoth from NU, RU, and UU and Crawdaunt from UU a few days ago. Also I love my Sticky Web Galvantula. Bravely sets up the move before dying. But if it survives, it proceeds to wreck shit with 91% accurate STAB Thunder, STAB Bug Buzz, and Energy Ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) They banned Venomoth from NU, RU, and UU and Crawdaunt from UU a few days ago. Also I love my Sticky Web Galvantula. Bravely sets up the move before dying. But if it survives, it proceeds to wreck shit with 91% accurate STAB Thunder, STAB Bug Buzz, and Energy Ball. Whoa wut, Venomoth honestly banned from UU? o___0 How? Why? What did it gain between gens 5 and 6 that made it too broken for UU? I used it in Gen 5 UU all the time and it NEVER seemed broken to me. Edited May 20, 2014 by BANRYU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Whoa wut, Venomoth honestly banned from UU? o___0 How? Why? What did it gain between gens 5 and 6 that made it too broken for UU? I used it in Gen 5 UU all the time and it NEVER seemed broken to me. On that note, I wonder what made Crawdaunt too broken for UU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahrivar Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 On that note, I wonder what made Crawdaunt too broken for UU? Knock off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Yeah, I was wondering that too, but-- oh. Yeah, I can see how Adaptability Knock Off would be considered pretty ridiculous.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Knock off Figures, since Knock Off got buffed through the roof. Knock Off before STAB hits for 97.5 power against anything with a removable item. How much power is Crawdaunt hitting with Adaptability Knock Off? 195?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 While Adaptability Knock off helped the matter, it is not what pushed Crawdaunt over the edge, After all it did have Crunch access anyway and Knock off is not that much stronger. Crawdaunt being banned has a lot to do with metagame going to more bulky offence than the gen 5 hyper offence, as well as obtaining new egg move in Agua Jet for that glorious 80 base power priority, managing to outperform Azumarill's Agua jet. Crabhammer going from 90 to 100 base power and having higher crit rate helps too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 And Crawdaunt has two of the best boosting moves in the game to add onto its insanity: Swords Dance and Dragon Dance. Whoa wut, Venomoth honestly banned from UU? o___0 How? Why? What did it gain between gens 5 and 6 that made it too broken for UU? I used it in Gen 5 UU all the time and it NEVER seemed broken to me. I suppose there are more threatening sweepers? And Venomoth itself can be quite dangerous, too. I want to know why it got banned from three tiers at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Dragon Dance isn't even that good on Crawdaunt (he's too damn slow), especially now that Aqua Jet is a thing. Venomoth is good with Tinted Lens Bug Buzz/Psychic + Sleep + Quiver yeah, but it's so frail and its stats are pretty damn weak. Really the best thing to do with it is Sleep + Quiverpass (while still maintaining an offensive presence with Bug Buzz), it has the tools needed for it and everything. However, I always found it to be more than a bit of a gamble; it works really well when pulled off and Passed to like Sheer Force Nidoking or something (though even then you still have to worry about guys like Snorlax coming in to sponge your specials and paralyzing you with Body Slam or whatever), but it's difficult and risky to successfully pull off. As someone who has a fair bit of experience with Gen 5 Venomoth and who feels like he knows it rather well, I'm more than a bit confused about this. What am I missing? Is there like some new QuiverPass recipient that makes it broken or something? I don't get it. What's the rationale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djing Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Venomoth has threats like Mega Houndoom, Hydreigon, Mega Blastoise and Kyurem to pass Quiver Dance to. Its like a Medic giving an Ubercharge to a Heavy. Venomoth didn't get better. His partners did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 See, that's what I figured. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Yeah, also Nidoking noteworthy in getting better, as well, I heard. ...what do you guys think of Sludge Wave? Seems like a Poison-type Heat Wave that might be preferred to Sludge Bomb, but the distribution seems low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I want to know why it got banned from three tiers at the same time. The way Smogon bans work is that a banned Pokemon cannot be used in any tiers below the banlist. Try to imagine a pyramid with the following sections from top to bottom: Ubers OU BL UU BL2 RU BL3 NU When a Pokemon gets banned to one of the banlists (BL, BL2, BL3 or Ubers), it's banned from all of the tiers below it. Essentially, since Venomoth was banned to BL, it cannot be used in RU and NU as well. You could also think of it as since UU is a more powerful metagame than RU and NU, if Venomoth was too strong for UU, it's also too strong for RU and NU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 I forgot about the BL tiers, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Yeah, also Nidoking noteworthy in getting better, as well, I heard. ...what do you guys think of Sludge Wave? Seems like a Poison-type Heat Wave that might be preferred to Sludge Bomb, but the distribution seems low. it does completely outclass sludge bomb, but you're right about the distribution problem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Yeah, also Nidoking noteworthy in getting better, as well, I heard. ...what do you guys think of Sludge Wave? Seems like a Poison-type Heat Wave that might be preferred to Sludge Bomb, but the distribution seems low. I find it funny how most Nidoking I saw are running a special set when he has better Atk (I think it even received a 10 point boost this gen). I guess his Special movepool is larger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 it does completely outclass sludge bomb, but you're right about the distribution problem.... I like how Pokemon like Dugtrio can learn it, but not Venomoth. Hilarious, Game Freak. Hilarious. I find it funny how most Nidoking I saw are running a special set when he has better Atk (I think it even received a 10 point boost this gen). I guess his Special movepool is larger Yeah, Nidoking has Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, etc. Pretty bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Some people like SB's poison chance better, but yeah, personally I prefer sludge wave. I'm pretty sad that Sludge Wave Gastlys aren't available anymore, since they were DW-only lol. I always used SW over SB on my NU Haunter, though. Nidoking is great. That 4MSS is a bit problematic sometimes, but covering your bases usually isn't too difficult. Don't forget Fire Blast as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 And it has Thunder and Blizzard, haha. Then it has Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, and Surf. Its special movepool is incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANRYU Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Well yeah but Thunder, Blizzard, and Focus Blast all have pretty bad accuracy compared even to Fire Blast, and Surf doesn't get the Sheer Force boost. Shadow Ball could work but most things in UU are hit SE by the Tri attack type-trio or Earth Power IIRC. But yeah, Nidoking's movepool is the shit. Actually though, if you're using Nidoking as a quiverpass recipient, you DON'T want him using Fire Blast like I suggested .3. Accuracy > power for sure, since the boosts from Quiver Dance should more than compensate for that... Has anyone been playing any of the lower tiers lately? I've only checked out OU in gen 6 so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Well yeah, I see what you're saying. If I ever used Nidoking (I kinda want to now), I'd want it to have a moveset consisting of Sludge Bomb/Earth Power/Thunderbolt/Flamethrower, or something like that. I really got to look into the lower tiers. I have an idea for a competitive Beedrill. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 And it has Thunder and Blizzard, haha. Then it has Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, and Surf. Its special movepool is incredible. It reminds me that Aggron has a decent special movepool as well, which I find funny considering he has 60 base in SpA (nearly half its Atk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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