1st Gen Skillsets

[BANRYU]

What's the context for Olivia?

I don't think you really want her as an enemy phase unit, even if she is maxed out.

If she's going to use Galeforce with Astra and Swordfaire to get a move in before she dances someone else, then she's better off dropping the vantage for something else. Even if that something is Lethality. So I pretty much agree with that setup then.

As for support Chrom, Defender doesn't work in the back. (Yes I see the All Stats+2, but what I mean is shouldn't something else be the primary skill in that case? Then again, all the other ones are proc skills that don't even work in back row.)

Okay so Vantage is useless for her, got it. I wasn't totally sure. TBH Pass is probably not totally applicable either, now I think about it; circumstances where Olivia would have to penetrate enemy lines are probably very infrequent. Lethality it is then.

For Chrom with Defender I'm assuming it's for instances, albeit rare, when Chrom has to be in front or something. I think it's mainly because, well... what else CAN you use for Support Chrom? IIRC there isn't much.

IMO, Bowbreaker sounds better on paper, but in Lunatic, I'd take Iote's Shield.

Duly noted, thanks.

I thought the idea behind this was to come up with effective skill sets that didn't use DLC abilities like Limit Breaker or Aggressor?

Yes and no... the idea is to come up with skill sets that can function without DLC in case people don't have it, but they're still perfectly valid for the discussion as long as alternatives to the DLC skills are given.

I have more skillsets I want to contribute but mehhhh busy. Keep throwing ideas around in the meantime and lets try not to get too technical or conceptual with specifics if we can avoid it. I'd rather have a bunch of imperfect suggestions than very few good ones lol

Edited May 9, 2014 by BANRYU

[BANRYU]

allright, I'm gonna rattle off a few more.

I'm wondering if maybe we should avoid listing Support builds for characters that have decent Lead builds, given that most of the stuff needed for supporting is pretty generic and widespread (faire/DG+ or DS+/Str or Mag+2/LB/etc.)

[spoiler=have some more]

Lissa - Valkyrie/Darkflier

Skills: Tomefaire, Galeforce, Renewal, Healtouch (Miracle/Iote's Shield), Dual Support+ (Limit Breaker)

Sully - Paladin

Skills: Swordfaire, Lancebreaker/Pass, Astra, Luna, Dual Guard+/Pass/Quick Burn (Limit Breaker)

Ricken - Sage

Skills: Tomefaire, Luna, Lifetaker, Aegis (Aggressor), Mag+2 (Limit Breaker)

Miriel - Sage

Skills: Tomefaire, Dual Support+, Anathema, Mag+2, Demoiselle (Bond/All+2)

Tharja - Sorcerer

Skills: Luna, Lifetaker/Vengeance, Hit Rate +20, Prescience, Tomebreaker/Bowbreaker (Limit Breaker)

--This build is designed for Miresniping, so Prescience over Anathema since she's probably not going to be close to opponents

Henry/Gangrel - Sorcerer

Skills: Vengeance, Counter, Wrath, Anathema (Limit Breaker), Move+1/Pass/Acrobat/Lucky Sevens (Aggressor)

--Henry and Gangrel literally have the same skill set. Weird. So I guess the idea here is to like take a hit or something and then Rescue Staff him away to Vengeance/Wrath Miresnipe. I dunno, they don't have a great set of skills.

Say'ri - Wyvern Lord

Skills: Lancefaire, Galeforce, Astra, Pass/Lethality, Quick Burn/Avo+10 (Limit Breaker)

Edited May 9, 2014 by BANRYU

[Czar_Yoshi]

Chrom: Sniper (LB/Agg/Aether/Luna/RK)

Lissa/Emmeryn: Sage/Valkyrie (LB/TF/GF/All+2/DS+)

Frederick/Walhart: Dread Fighter (LB/Pavise/Aegis or Deliverer/Res+10/Luna)

Sully: Paladin (LB/SF/Luna/Astra/Deliverer)

Virion: Sage (LB/Agg/TF/All+2/Mag+2) or (LB/Agg/TF/Deliverer/Lifetaker).

Stahl: Sniper (LB/Agg/BF/Luna/Astra)

Vaike: Berserker (LB/Agg/AF/All+2/Lucky 7)

Miriel: Sage (LB/TF/Anathema/DS+/All+2)

Sumia: Sage/DF (LB/TF/GF/Luna/All+2)

Kellam: Sage (LB/Agg/TF/Luna/All+2)

Donnel: Hero (LB/Agg/AT/Axebreaker/Sol)

Lon'qu: Assassin (LB/Agg/SF/Astra/Deliverer) if leading, Wyvern (LB/Agg/Deliverer/Mov+1/All+2) if supporting

Ricken: Sage (LB/Agg/TF/Luna/All+2)

Maribelle: Sage/Valkyrie (LB/TF/GF/All+2/DS+ or Mag+2)

Panne: Wyvern (LB/Deliverer/Mov+1/Pass/Lucky 7)

Gaius: Assassin (LB/Agg/SF/Lucky 7/All+2)

Cordelia: Falco (LB/GF/LF/Vengeance/Anathema) or DF/Hero/Sorc (LB/GF/AT/Vengeance/Anathema)

Gregor: Hero/Assassin/Berserker (LB/Agg/SF or AF/AT/All+2)

Nowi/Tiki: Manakete (LB/Str+2/SB/Deliverer/All+2) or Sage/DK (LB/Mag+2/Deliverer/Lancebreaker or Bond/All+2)

Libra: Sage (LB/Agg/TF/Vengeance/All+2)

Tharja: Sniper (LB/BF/Vengeance/Anathema/All+2) or Sorc (LB/Vengeance or Luna/Pavise/Anathema/All+2)

Anna: Assassin (LB/BF/Bond/Lifetaker/All+2) or Sage (LB/TF/Mag+2/Bond or Lifetaker/All+2)

Olivia: Dancer (LB/SD/GF/SF/Astra or All+2)

Cherche: Sage/Valkyrie (LB/TF/Deliverer or Bond/Healtouch or DS+/All+2)

Henry/Gangrel: Berserker (LB/Agg/AF/Anathema/All+2 or Vengeance) or Sorc (LB/Agg or Gamble/Anathema/Wrath/Vengeance)

Say'ri: Assassin/Wyvern (LB/GF/SF or LF/Astra or Deliverer or Spd+2/All+2) (note: Spd+2 is recommended as a Wyvern because when paired with a Spd+4 Einherjar it allows doubling of Thronie)

Basilio: Berserker/Hero (LB/Agg/AF/Luna/All+2)

Flavia: Hero/Assassin (LB/Luna/AT/Mov+1 or Lucky 7/All+2)

Yen'fay: Assassin/Sniper (LB/Agg/SF or BF/Astra/Deliverer or All+2)

Aversa: Dark Flier (LB/SG/GF/Deliverer/Tomebreaker or LF)

Priam: Hero or Assassin (LB/Agg/SF/Luna/AT or Lancebreaker or All+2)

That should be everyone. Context is Apo with Einherjar but no children. Notice a pattern?

Most of these are pretty straightforward except Chrom. I don't really feel Chrom has a best set. When all the rest of the team is in play and all options on the table (including children), he's somewhat relegated to poking stuff as a Sniper. if you try to use him for more than that, he's actually quite good at rising to the challenge, but involves subtle skillset/class tweaks for pretty much everything, so I can't really say something's the best. To be fair, this probably applies to most of the characters, Chrom's just the only one I've looked super-in-depth at. That said, take everyone with a grain of salt, these setups may be good in a vacuum but there's always going to be something that performs better if tailored to very specific needs (the only threshold I considered in all those sets was Say'ri's Spd).

The idea is to add one incase people don't have it.

What are you doing minmaxing the parents if you don't have DLC?

Edited May 9, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[BANRYU]

Wow thanks man, great contribution. Yeah no don't sweat it that you didn't analyze them all that in-depth, I didn't really either when I'm coming up with them. The way I see it we can always tweak them later if we find things that do or don't work.

I'll need some time to go through these.

[Emerald Ink]

What are you doing minmaxing the parents if you don't have DLC?

Attempting to still be able to use them because you like them better than the kids? I mean, if you don't have DLC, then you probably don't have Apotheosis, so there's not much point in preparing for something you may not have. I dunno, there are any number of reasons, and I can't be the only one who's interested in seeing alternatives to DLC skills for the sake of simple curiosity.

[shadowofchaos]

For Chrom with Defender I'm assuming it's for instances, albeit rare, when Chrom has to be in front or something. I think it's mainly because, well... what else CAN you use for Support Chrom? IIRC there isn't much.

In the rare cases when he goes up front, I think the proc chance he'll use Aether is better than a constant only +1 boost in everything else.

[BANRYU]

In the rare cases when he goes up front, I think the proc chance he'll use Aether is better than a constant only +1 boost in everything else.

Good point.

What are you doing minmaxing the parents if you don't have DLC?

Attempting to still be able to use them because you like them better than the kids? I mean, if you don't have DLC, then you probably don't have Apotheosis, so there's not much point in preparing for something you may not have. I dunno, there are any number of reasons, and I can't be the only one who's interested in seeing alternatives to DLC skills for the sake of simple curiosity.

People might have other DLC maps and the Spotpass Six levels (all of which are still pretty challenging compared to maingame) that could warrant a certain level of optimization. Personally, this is the case with myself. I don't have Apo, but I suck enough that I struggle with the DLC/Spotpass stuff.

Edited May 9, 2014 by BANRYU

[BANRYU]

Shit stupid f#$%in' internet refreshed and lost my changes.

Okay folks time for an update. I'm adding the following to the OP based on general thread consensus:

Lissa - Valkyrie / Sage

Skills: Galeforce, Tomefaire, Dual Support+, Renewal (Limit Breaker), Healtouch (All+2)

Sully - Paladin

Skills: Swordfaire, Luna, Astra, Deliverer, Lancebreaker (Limit Breaker)

Miriel - Sage

Skills: Tomefaire, Anathema, Dual Support+, Mag+2 (Limit Breaker), Demoiselle (All+2)

Sumia - Darkflier / Sage

Skills: Galeforce, Tomefaire, Luna, Renewal/Dual Guard+ (Limit Breaker), Pavise/Dual Guard+ (All+2/Iote's Shield)

Stahl - Sniper

Skills: Luna, Bowfaire, Astra, Pass (Limit Breaker), Hit Rate +20/Lethality (Aggressor)

Donnel - Hero

Skills: Armsthrift, Sol, Counter (Aggressor), Axebreaker, Patience (Limit Breaker)

Maribelle - Valkyrie / Sage

Skills: Galeforce, Tomefaire, Dual Support+ (/ All+2), Mag+2 (/ All+2), Lifetaker/Renewal (Limit Breaker)

1) Gregor Tank - Berserker

Skills: Axefaire, Astra/Sol, Counter (Aggressor), Wrath/Sol (Limit Breaker), Vantage

2) Gregor Support - Hero / Assassin / Berserker

Skills: Axefaire/Swordfaire, Armsthrift, Gamble (Limit Breaker), Wrath (Aggressor), Patience (All+2)

Tharja 1) Miresniper - Sorcerer

Skills: Luna, Lifetaker/Vengeance, Hit Rate +20, Prescience, Tomebreaker (Limit Breaker)

Tharja 2) Tank - Sorcerer

Skills: Vengeance/Luna, Pavise, Anathema, Luna/Vengeance (All+2), Lifetaker (Limit Breaker)

Tharja 3) Sniper

Skills: Bowfaire, Luna, Anathema, Vengeance/Prescience (All+2), Lifetaker/Prescience (Limit Breaker)

Henry/Gangrel 1) Miresniper - Sorcerer

Skills: Vengeance, Wrath, Anathema, Counter (Limit Breaker), Gamble (Aggressor)

Henry/Gangrel 2) Tank - Berserker

Skills: Axefaire, Anathema, Vengeance / All+2, Counter (Limit Breaker), Wrath (Aggressor)

Say'ri - Assassin / Wyvern Lord

Skills: Swordfaire / Lancefaire, Galeforce, Astra, Deliverer (All+2), Speed+2 (Limit Breaker)

Let me know if any of these looks weird/ineffective/problematic. I'm not 100% sure about Tharja's Sniper set, though in theory anyone with Sniper and Luna sounds good (and she's only a few points of Str under Stahl).

I also chose not to add Priam or the Manaketes yet since I'm not 100% sure about either of their sets. Some more discussion on them might be good.

Additionally, I have this to suggest for Walhart:

Wyvern Lord/Conquerer - Conquest, Res+10, Luna, Pavise (Aggressor), Deliverer

Seems like a shame not to make good use of Conquest, and IMO Wyvern is probably the best way to do it espcially with DF's Res+10 patching WL's spotty Res. Not sure what to replace for Limit Breaker (though it's probably Conq lol).

Edited May 12, 2014 by BANRYU

[Shadow Mir]

Shit stupid f#$%in' internet refreshed and lost my changes.

Okay folks time for an update. I'm adding the following to the OP based on general thread consensus:

Lissa - Valkyrie / Sage

Skills: Galeforce, Tomefaire, Dual Support+, Renewal (Limit Breaker), Healtouch (All+2)

Sully - Paladin

Skills: Swordfaire, Luna, Astra, Deliverer, Lancebreaker (Limit Breaker)

Miriel - Sage

Skills: Tomefaire, Anathema, Dual Support+, Mag+2 (Limit Breaker), Demoiselle (All+2)

Sumia - Darkflier / Sage

Skills: Galeforce, Tomefaire, Luna, Renewal/Dual Guard+ (Limit Breaker), Pavise/Dual Guard+ (All+2/Iote's Shield)

Stahl - Sniper

Skills: Luna, Bowfaire, Astra, Pass (Limit Breaker), Hit Rate +20/Lethality (Aggressor)

Donnel - Hero

Skills: Armsthrift, Sol, Counter (Aggressor), Axebreaker, Patience (Limit Breaker)

Maribelle - Valkyrie / Sage

Skills: Galeforce, Tomefaire, Dual Support+ (/ All+2), Mag+2 (/ All+2), Lifetaker/Renewal (Limit Breaker)

1) Gregor Tank - Berserker

Skills: Axefaire, Astra/Sol, Counter (Aggressor), Wrath/Sol (Limit Breaker), Vantage

2) Gregor Support - Hero / Assassin / Berserker

Skills: Axefaire/Swordfaire, Armsthrift, Gamble (Limit Breaker), Wrath (Aggressor), Patience (All+2)

Tharja 1) Miresniper - Sorcerer

Skills: Luna, Lifetaker/Vengeance, Hit Rate +20, Prescience, Tomebreaker (Limit Breaker)

Tharja 2) Tank - Sorcerer

Skills: Vengeance/Luna, Pavise, Anathema, Luna/Vengeance (All+2), Lifetaker (Limit Breaker)

Tharja 3) Sniper

Skills: Bowfaire, Luna, Anathema, Vengeance/Prescience (All+2), Lifetaker/Prescience (Limit Breaker)

Henry/Gangrel 1) Miresniper - Sorcerer

Skills: Vengeance, Wrath, Anathema, Counter (Limit Breaker), Gamble (Aggressor)

Henry/Gangrel 2) Tank - Berserker

Skills: Axefaire, Anathema, Vengeance / All+2, Counter (Limit Breaker), Wrath (Aggressor)

Say'ri - Assassin / Wyvern Lord

Skills: Swordfaire / Lancefaire, Galeforce, Astra, Deliverer (All+2), Speed+2 (Limit Breaker)

Let me know if any of these looks weird/ineffective/problematic. I'm not 100% sure about Tharja's Sniper set, though in theory anyone with Sniper and Luna sounds good (and she's only a few points of Str under Stahl).

I also chose not to add Priam or the Manaketes yet since I'm not 100% sure about either of their sets. Some more discussion on them might be good.

Additionally, I have this to suggest for Walhart:

Wyvern Lord/Conquerer - Conquest, Res+10, Luna, Pavise (Aggressor), Deliverer

Seems like a shame not to make good use of Conquest, and IMO Wyvern is probably the best way to do it espcially with DF's Res+10 patching WL's spotty Res. Not sure what to replace for Limit Breaker (though it's probably Conq lol).

Conquest wouldn't do anything as a Wyvern Lord - it only negates the weaknesses from armor and beast-slaying weapons.

[BANRYU]

Oh, damn. Why was I assuming it negated all weaknesses? :0 So much for that, then. Dx

[Deivl34]

Kellam

Class: General

Skills: Pavise,Renewal(Aggressor), Movement+1(Limit Breaker), Luna/Lethality, Acrobat(Res+10)

Kellam has weird classes with not many options. I guess you could run Lethality but he works better with Luna.

[BANRYU]

Yeah, Kellam is weird... his skillsets are okay, but he doesn't really have any useful classes to finish as that he can do well in. Hell, I guess Sage is passable, but... *shrug* I'll probably add the General and Sage as separate sets since Sage is the only one that could be useful on Apo, but General is probably usable for other maps.

So I noticed that Frederick is like the only potential Gen 1 flier (aside from Sully, who's better as Paladin) to also get Aegis... So that's kinda cool.

Wyvern Lord Fred : Luna, Aegis, Deliverer, Pavise (Limit Breaker), Str+2 (Aggressor)

Czar Yosh, I've got some itemized questions for you.

Frederick/Walhart: Dread Fighter (LB/Pavise/Aegis or Deliverer/Res+10/Luna)

Why Dreadfighter for these two? Is everything else they have really that bad? Isn't Conquerer even halfway viable for Walhart? And what about Wyvern for Fred bcuz reasons listed above?

Gaius: Assassin (LB/Agg/SF/Lucky 7/All+2)

Why no Astra? L7 really that much better?

Nowi/Tiki: Manakete (LB/Str+2/SB/Deliverer/All+2) or Sage/DK (LB/Mag+2/Deliverer/Lancebreaker or Bond/All+2)

Isn't Swordbreaker desirable for both versions of this since Manakete weakness persists regardless of class?

Also since everyone and their mother gets Sage, is it safe to say that we can just cut the Sage from Nowi & Tiki's recommended loadouts since there are plenty of... TBH better Sage candidates, and Manakete is what makes these two unique anyway (like how Stahl would make a good Paladin but Sniper is more of a niche role for him)?

Anna: Assassin (LB/BF/Bond/Lifetaker/All+2) or Sage (LB/TF/Mag+2/Bond or Lifetaker/All+2)

Is Bride viable for Anna with her Bowfaire and shit to provide like a dual role between the two classes listed? Seems like it to me but *shrug*

...I thought I had more but it didn't end up being that many.

Just one more general question; for non-Apo maps, is Lethality a viable option for people who don't have any other procs, like say Anna, Kellam and Panne?

Edited May 13, 2014 by BANRYU

[Anacybele]

Dread Fighter gives Frederick what he needs: res and speed. I don't know about Walhart, I've never recruited him.

Anyway, my planned skillset for Freddy is Luna, Dual Guard+, Res +10, Aggressor, and Limit Breaker. Just to try contributing to the topic. :P But you could replace the DLC skills with Aegis, Deliverer, and...I guess either Str +2 or Quick Burn?

Edited May 13, 2014 by Anacybele

[Shadow Mir]

Just one more general question; for non-Apo maps, is Lethality a viable option for people who don't have any other procs, like say Anna, Kellam and Panne?

IMO, I'd say no because of opportunity cost. Also, why mention Kellam, knowing he has Luna?

[BANRYU]

Dread Fighter gives Frederick what he needs: res and speed. I don't know about Walhart, I've never recruited him.

Anyway, my planned skillset for Freddy is Luna, Dual Guard+, Res +10, Aggressor, and Limit Breaker. Just to try contributing to the topic. :P But you could replace the DLC skills with Aegis, Deliverer, and...I guess either Str +2 or Quick Burn?

WL Freddy is too slow to function then huh? Too bad. Presumably, Walhart is in the same boat.

Well, why not Paladin then, though? It's only like 1 less than DF in Speed and Res and has plus a couple points of Defense as well.

Yeah, that's fine, thanks for the contribs o30 Let's see... let's compare the suggested Fred sets we've got so far.

CY: Luna, Pavise, Aegis, Res+10, LB

Ana: Luna, DG+, Agg, Res+10, LB

Obv Luna is a mainstay, though TBH I'm not sure why he needs Res+10 so bad especially as a Dreadfighter. DF class + Aegis + Res+10 especially seems a bit redundant, though maybe I'm underestimating the efficacy of Apo magic-users. If I were gonna choose skills from these to put in the OP it'd probably be something along the lines of Luna, Deliverer, Aegis (Res+10), Pavise (Agg), Str+2 (LB).

I feel like Fred could use a good support set as well with like DG+, Deliverer/Defender, Str+2/All+2, Agg and LB or something. I know Defender isn't a super well-liked skill but it seems useful in theory if a unit doesn't have anything better to do with that slot (or doesn't have DLC). Maybe there are specifics of it that I don't understand, though.

IMO, I'd say no because of opportunity cost. Also, why mention Kellam, knowing he has Luna?

Because I'm a big dumb-dumb and i forgot, probably.

In any case, duly noted, thanks.

So Proc-less units are better left as support?

Edited May 13, 2014 by BANRYU

[Czar_Yoshi]

Czar Yosh, I've got some itemized questions for you.

Ana is right, Fred is going to be tanking with PavGis because he's too slow to kill, and DF is his highest Res class. Wyvern could be used if you want a ferry, but the best way to play Apo is to reinforce your strengths, not cover your weaknesses (Aegis on WLord vs Aegis on DF), since all weaknesses can be covered by simply staying out of fights with enemies who exploit them.

Walhart... Was mostly lumped in with Fred because I was tired of typing. He doesn't get Aegis, so if you want to give him a more offensive set (he has 50 base Str as a Wyvern which is nice) that works too. Conqueror Walhart also isn't as slow as he looks (39 Spd compared to GK Fred's 35) (furthermore it's his fastest class bar the lowly Griffon, and that only wins by 1 Spd), so it is a viable class for him. I'd say he could do well with LB/Agg/Luna/All+2/Res+10 or Deliverer in either Wyvern or Conqueror. Conqueror is probably preferred, as with All+2 and an Assassin Einherjar (or Yen'fay) pairup (+7 Spd) he hits 60 Spd, enough to not be doubled by anything except Anna/NS. Add Rally, and he can double everything but Anna/NS, and switch to a Zerker instead.

Astra isn't that reliable as a single proc and doesn't do very much damage unless your Atk is significantly higher than the foe's Def. As an Assassin, his Atk won't be that high either. It's certainly an option, though (if you can't reach wave 2 before L7 wears off, Astra is better. On any non-Apo map except maybe Roster Rescue, L7 is better).

S.Apo has 3 non-Hawkeye Beastkillers and 1 non-Hawkeye Wyrmslayer. Neither of the Manaketes are dodgetanks though, those are just there because... They have nothing better to do. Lancebreaker also has a bit of merit as life insurance against Anna, though I doubt it would matter if she doubles you.

Anna could go Bride, yes.

Tharja: procs don't activate on Mire and stacking Luna and Vengeance is generally bad because Luna effectively lowers Vengeance's activation rate and thus your damage output when you've taken more damage than your foe has Def/Res.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[BANRYU]

Procs don't activate on Mire? Shit. There goes that strat. *sigh* Allright I'll fix Tharja and the other sorcs when I can spare the time.

Well since we're talking about Brides... Is there anyone else who'd be well-suited to it? IIRC they're pretty situational in their usefulness, unlike Dreadfighters, so probably not.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Bride's main selling points are being a +Mag/Spd pairup unit available to all females, being the best physical +Mag support, and being the only Bow +Mag support. Yeah, they're mainly about support boosts (highly appropriate given that they're brides). If you wanted to really have fun with them, give Bride!Morgan Ignis and pair her with Vengeance Dread Fighter Libra!Inigo to completely ruin PavGis and get around every defense in the book.

Unfortunately because all of Bride's selling points are about teamwork, they're kind of lackluster on their own and don't really fit in when ranking the characters in a vacuum. Furthermore, all the units with the right qualities to use them properly tend to be 2nd gen...

[MelonGx]

Just running Libra!Inigo / Bride!Maiden!Lucina.

The pair has no enough power to 6-hit KO even the Apo SR Wave 4's Aegis+ Soldier.

[Czar_Yoshi]

That build was mostly for fun by trying to pack as many offensive options on two units as possible.

But really? Putting Lucina up front with a Brave Lance isn't enough?

Libra!Inigo's atk from the rear: 38(base) +2(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +10(Agg) +5(TF) +2(tonic) +11(Celica's) =88 -45 /2 =21 x4. Inigo can KO with Celica's even if Lucina does no damage. With Inigo in front with a Brave Axe...

Inigo: 42(base) +1(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +10(Agg) +2(tonic) +3(Lucina) +19(Brave Axe+WT stuff) =97 -60 /2 =18.

Lucina: 40(base) +2(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +5(BF) +17(Brave Bow) =84 -60 /2 =12.

18+12+12+18+12+12 =84 damage.

Again, the point of doing Bride x DF is versatility. If you're just going to stick to one weapon type, you might as well use Sage x DF or something x Zerker.

[MelonGx]

There is one Aegis+ Soldier has Def 65 Res 50.

In my case, Libra!Inigo is a VV tank.

Without TF, his ATK is 46+2+10+10+2+7+11=88.

Native output is [(88-50)/4]*2=9*2=18.

Lucina's output is [(84-65)/2]*4=36.

Required total Vengeance output is 80-36-18=26.

(80-HP)/8*2=26

HP=80-26/2*8=-24

So it fails.

If he has TF, then his native output becomes [(93-50)/4]*2=20. It still changes nothing.

(Edit) Wait, I didn't count Lucina's All+2 and Tonic. They change a lot.

With these two, Lucina's output is increased to 44.

Required total Vengeance output is decreased to 18.

Required HP = 80-18/2*8 = 8.

It's not impossible anymore.

Edited May 13, 2014 by MelonGx

[Anacybele]

I never meant that Dread Fighter would be Freddy's final class. After he goes through it and gets the skills and res and speed boost, put him back in Great Knight and he should be reliable as both a support and offensive unit. Dual Guard+ will make him protect his wife and child more often in pair-ups, and he'll be able to tank any hit and strike back with a devastating blow if he has Res +10 and Aggressor.

If Dread Fighter is Freddy's final class though, he'll can still kick ass with or without Res +10, so it may be a good idea to swap it out for Str +2 or Limit Breaker. Freddy's str cap as a Dread Fighter is 44 instead of the usual 50, so yeah. I know, because I already capped his str and he's still in Dread Fighter mode for me. :P

Edited May 13, 2014 by Anacybele

[BANRYU]

We're basically only concerned with final classes here though, Ana, as far as listing them goes. In any case, CY seems to think that DF works well for Freddy anyway *shrug*

In any case, I'll probably toss him like a support GK set on top of the DF one once I have the time.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I never meant that Dread Fighter would be Freddy's final class. After he goes through it and gets the skills and res and speed boost, put him back in Great Knight and he should be reliable as both a support and offensive unit. Dual Guard+ will make him protect his wife and child more often in pair-ups, and he'll be able to tank any hit and strike back with a devastating blow if he has Res +10 and Aggressor.

As I said, GK Fred caps at 35 Spd. He's this close to being the slowest thing in the game. Growths don't matter when minmaxing.

Fred has no Faires and his Skl is tied with Vaike!Gerome@Berserker. His DSes are decent by virtue of Agg but I wouldn't count on them.

Tank any hit? GK Fred with LB/All+2/Defender/Def+2 x A General, max rallies/tonic and barracks boost in Def/Spd (aka everything he can possibly do to survive with 100% accuracy) Vs Apo's Nightmare Sniper.

NS's atk: 96. NS's Spd: 70. NS has Luna+.

Frederick's Spd: 37(base) -2(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +3(General) +2(tonic) +4(Barracks) =64. NS doubles, he has a Brave Bow++ so four hits.

Frederick's Def: 48(base) +2(mods) +10(LB) +10(Rally) +2(All+2) +2(Def+2) +1(Defender) +2(S.Dance) +10(General) +2(tonic) +4(barracks) =93. NS has Luna+, so Fred's effective Def is 46. NS does 50 damage x4 to Fred, Fred has 85 HP and dies in two hits. Even if you swapped General out for something to make him faster he'd kick the bucket. So no, there's definitely stuff that Fred can't reliably survive.

[BANRYU]

So it's safe to say that DF IS the best way to go with him, in other words...? No hope for support GK? ;3;

Well it's not like you would ever want to use Fred on Apo anyway (unless you're Ana in which case no offense I hope)...

He probably functions fine in other maps with like the Wyvern or DF set as well to be very assumptuous

Edited May 13, 2014 by BANRYU