Jotari Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 So I'm playing Thracia and I recruit Ronan, a character who's only trait is his hatred for Lifis' pirates. Next chapter I go and recruit said Lifis. Now Ronan and Lifis are fighting along side each other in the same army with not a word said about it. That got me thinking. Armies aren't a super happy friendship power place. And most playable Fire Emblem's armies are made up of people thrown together from all over the continent who likely would have issues with each other. Hell who didn't want to kill Naesala in Radiant Dawn? So do you think there's the potential of an anti-support system in Fire Emblem. I'm not sure how it works, whether it'd be beneficial or not, it's just something I'm thinking about at the moment. Maybe if pair up came back it could be nerfed by having certain characters be unable to do it with each other. Do you have any thoughts on a mechanic that works on people's distrust and animosity towards their begrudging allies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Ehh... it works more for characterization... but detrimental to gameplay. Dunno if the characterization outweighs the potential inconveniences when it comes to surviving the chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 It''d be a more interesting mechanic if you had to teach character A and character B how to cooperate with each other over time. Characters with rivalries or hatred would gradually be better beside each other. The convos could be similar to the Matthew and Jaffar convos. Overall, however, I don't think it'd be a good mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 When I looked at the thread's title I immediately thought of the mechanics of Final Fantasy 12. And that'd be pretty cool, except instead of controlling which of your units the opposition targets, it would impact how much damage that would receive. For example, Seth (or Haar, or MU) solos a map for you and this gets me 'hated', causing him to receive damage that is unproportionally inflated in relation to his defence stat, causing you to use your other characters more often. It'd make LTCing more complicated and fun too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Haha, the Mug skill would be perfect for Lifis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) Tear Ring Saga had a character who gave all allies around him a 50% penalty to hit and avoid. It's implied that this is because no one can stand being near him. Mechanical wise, it's the result of a skill that allows the user to take all the items of an enemy they defeat. While said guy is played for comedy, the skill is later used more seriously by a bunch of allied NPC fighters who are gladiators who want to seize an opportunity to gain the favor of the invading player army. Nobody liked those guys either. Edit: Curses! Foiled by a dastardly ninja. Edited May 10, 2014 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) When I looked at the thread's title I immediately thought of the mechanics of Final Fantasy 12. And that'd be pretty cool, except instead of controlling which of your units the opposition targets, it would impact how much damage that would receive. For example, Seth (or Haar, or MU) solos a map for you and this gets me 'hated', causing him to receive damage that is unproportionally inflated in relation to his defence stat, causing you to use your other characters more often. It'd make LTCing more complicated and fun too! That would definitely help reduce low manning. Though instead of a defense penalty I think an evasion/accuracy penalty would be better. I don't know why but something just doesn't sit right with me when it comes to change strength/defense like that. Oh and what mechanics of Final Fantasy XII are you thinking of? Edited May 10, 2014 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) Tear Ring Saga had a character who gave all allies around him a 50% penalty to hit and avoid. It's implied that this is because no one can stand being near him. Mechanical wise, it's the result of a skill that allows the user to take all the items of an enemy they defeat. While said guy is played for comedy, the skill is later used more seriously by a bunch of allied NPC fighters who are gladiators who want to seize an opportunity to gain the favor of the invading player army. Nobody liked those guys either. Maybe if it was actually on a playable character that isn't total shit it would be interesting, and what he said. Edited May 10, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) Maybe if it was actually on a playable character that isn't total shit it would be interesting, and what he said. There is a scroll that teaches the skill, hidden in chapter 25. Almost all skill scrolls are unused but "Mug" is in fact obtainable. Edited May 10, 2014 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 There is a scroll that teaches the skill, hidden in chapter 25. Almost all skill scrolls are unused but "Mug" is in fact obtainable. Must be some pretty controversial reading material for everyone to suddenly hate the unit you use it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) That would definitely help reduce low manning. I wasn't aware that low manning was a problem (certainly IS don't care if you beat their game with one character or use a team of characters, nor, I suspect, do the vast majority of players). Edited May 10, 2014 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) I wasn't aware that low manning was a problem (certainly IS don't care if you beat their game with one character or use a team of characters, nor, I suspect, do the vast majority of players). In my opinion the game should encourage diversity in strategy. Low manning basically allows you to create a small team of super units that can steam roll through most games which removes the point of 90% of the rest of the characers/classes/weapons/supports etc. Sure it's fun to see which games it's possible to solo with certain characters but when it comes to soloing being a more optimal way of playing the game, then I consider it a problem...but really that's a discussion for another thread. Edited May 10, 2014 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Gabriel Knight Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I think it would be interesting to see some characters who grow to dislike each other during their supports. The gameplay benefits would be the same as normal, but they'd just dislike each other for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 That would definitely help reduce low manning. Though instead of a defense penalty I think an evasion/accuracy penalty would be better. I don't know why but something just doesn't sit right with me when it comes to change strength/defense like that. Oh and what mechanics of Final Fantasy XII are you thinking of? 'Hate' affecting AI behaviour. A character that's conducted most of the hate-inducing actions becomes the primary target of the enemies' attacks. That's the gist of it; I haven't really touched FF12 since 2008 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 'Hate' affecting AI behaviour. A character that's conducted most of the hate-inducing actions becomes the primary target of the enemies' attacks. That's the gist of it; I haven't really touched FF12 since 2008 or so. Huh I played through the entire of Final Fantasy XII and didn't know there was an agro system. I probably would have found the game easier if I had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Huh I played through the entire of Final Fantasy XII and didn't know there was an agro system. I probably would have found the game easier if I had. I think that's how players choose the Bubble/Reverse recipient! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaSaint Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 (edited) I think it would be interesting to see some characters who grow to dislike each other during their supports. The gameplay benefits would be the same as normal, but they'd just dislike each other for whatever reason. There has been a few supports where I'd describe things as 'competition' or rivalry. The characters might not like each other, but they're desperate to one-up each other, improving their performance. That's how I'd rationalise it. Edited May 11, 2014 by LunaSaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Gabriel Knight Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 There has been a few supports where I'd describe things as 'competition' or rivalry. The characters might not like each other, but they're desperate to one-up each other, improving their performance. That's how I'd rationalise it. I was thinking along the terms of by the A support, they never want to be in each other's presence ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roivann Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I was thinking along the terms of by the A support, they never want to be in each other's presence ever again.But that would turn the whole support mechanic on its ass. FE4 had a jealousy system, so maybe something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Gabriel Knight Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 But that would turn the whole support mechanic on its ass. FE4 had a jealousy system, so maybe something like that? How would it? Explain it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 How would it? Explain it to me. http://www.serenesforest.net/fe4/jealousy.html here you go buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Gabriel Knight Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Not jealousy, how my idea wouldn't work. But thanks, though. Edited May 12, 2014 by GabrielKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The whole idea behind supports is that you get bonuses for fighting with people you like or are comfortable with. Why would you fight better beside people whom you despise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Gabriel Knight Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Maybe they make you angry and you fight better that way. It doesn't really matter why it affects gameplay, it should differ for variety in story. Edited May 12, 2014 by GabrielKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Maybe they make you angry and you fight better that way. It doesn't really matter why it affects gameplay, it should differ for variety in story. Or they could just write a better story; there's no reason to do something that makes no gameplay sense just for a slightly more varied story. I think the hate mechanic of certain characters getting stat penalties near each other is really cool actually. It would make for an interesting and realistic gameplay addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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