euklyd Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 GP you're "clearing" Cam for dumb reasons; we know there's a ninja in the setup and even if he's not a ninja we have no idea that he's a town vanilla just because he wasn't seen taking an action. I feel like town!you would be more wary. Your case was also the weakest sort of rolespec, and then you tried to tie Marth and Shinori together because Marth pointed out Shinori's claim and somehow "covered" for him? This is stupidly associative, even ignoring the bullshit rolespec (which you retracted). Shinori, that's quite the turnaround in your GP read, and in your Marth read; what gives? Also your Marth case is really dumb. Right now it's basically just ~rolespec~, and shitty rolespec at that. I really can't tell what you're trying to say; it looks like "Marth's role is basically a roleblocker" which is dumb even for rolespec. Shinori is just kinda ~really scummy~ just on play alone like holy fuck, but the vigshot is pretty damn town, and Marth made a good point about the claim. I think the only way he's scum is if the rest of the scumteam is ~super weak~ (but like swingy setups are unlikely) and he was planning from the beginning to make a shot that he could pretend was coming from a town!vigshot. I don't really think that's the case. While I agree with the one (1) component of Marth's GP case (feels like grasping) and the conclusion (GP is scum), really if you're gonna case someone like that and VOTE IN LYLO you should actually make A Good Case. (General note: Support your vote well or take it off; you don't need to place sloppy votes with >24 hours left in the phase.) Really guys; step up your casing. This is LYLO, we can't afford to be sloppy. AS FOR ME... I still feel like GP is the most likely scum. She's just made a case(s) for the worst reasons and her reads are associative without even citing any independent scumminess, in addition to what I've been scumreading her for over the rest of the game. Also Shin obviously thinks/thought she's scum as well from his posts at the end of Day 2. I'm thinking GP / Refa / FFM scumteam. (GP > Refa ≈ FFM) Shinori is town imo, and I'm leaning towards town!Marth. Others are null(ish), but those two PoE it down to Refa / GP / FFM / Cam, and of those four I think Cam is the least likely to flip scum. fucking stupid internet dying eating my posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Oh yeah logic regarding safeguard as a counterargument for marth. This is the first time anyone has even seen the use of this safeguard. No one apparently targeted me at all before but something occurred to me. Generally as scum, yes you would use safeguard on the kill target just so you get fancy op kills. However with dead doc day 1 and dead back up night 1 and me claiming what my shots are day 2. YOU NO LONGER HAVE A REASON TO USE IT ON YOUR KILL TARGET AS SCUM. With no more docs and someone with a claimed rolecop and block it is much more safe for you to use it on a buddy, either to stop them from being blocked by me or to stop them from being inspected by me. Just a two cents as a counter argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Lazy votals. Votals 3.1 Green Poet (1): Bluedoom Not Voting (6): Everyone else. You have 18 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 So it's pretty much GP or marth at this point in time most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 So this game is still on, nice. Scum has had 16 hours to turbo me and haven't done so, so it could be that there isn't a three-man scumteam. Or Marth is actually scum and can't win unless a townie votes me. In any case, what this tells me is that there's no harm in me voting Marth right now even if he is town, because a townie has been voted once already and the game isn't over. ##Vote: Bluedoom Will post more later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Yeah, this is a 1v1. I really think that GP is much more likely to be scum.Her hypocrisy over the course of the entire game has been astounding, and she's felt kinda graspy today as well. Basically D1+D2 case, and then like today she's just been eeehhhhh...Like the whole "Marth and Shin are buddies because [really bullshit association]" thing is bad enough on its own, but when you get to how she was criticizing my own associative reads earlier it looks like she's really just trying to find any reason at all to secure a mislynch.And then if you look at Late D2 with the Shin thing she used I don't buy that Shin could mistake the "in short, you are _______" bit of his PM for watcher instead of tracker. That doesn't have much to do with reading comprehension; it's written explicitly. to vote for Shin over Shinori (which already is a pretty weak reason, especially since Darros did almost exactly that in her last game) but still said she believed Shinori's claim less, which reads like trying to set up a Shinori mislynch to me. Shinori's claim makes less sense in a game with possibly three vanillas but I think Shin's not recognizing his role synopsis is more reliable to go byGoing to stick with this vote And then in the other corner Marth's play has seemed pretty town imo, for the entire game. Also, I feel like if he were scum he would've just kept quiet about his role, since Safeguard isn't exactly an obvtown role and there's not really any scum benefit to bringing it up; it's not like anyone's gonna clear him for being a Safeguard (although here we're getting into WIFOM territory, so meh).Shinori do you actually think Marth is scum for any reasons beyond rolespec? If you (or anyone) have a real case I'm open to hearing it; we really can't afford to fuck up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I saw FFM reading this just a bit ago; I really don't like how he's just completely disappeared today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 And then if you look at Late D2 with the Shin thing she used to vote for Shin over Shinori (which already is a pretty weak reason, especially since Darros did almost exactly that in her last game) but still said she believed Shinori's claim less, which reads like trying to set up a Shinori mislynch to me. We didn't have colored, bolded lines at the end of our role PMs detailing what our essential role names were in SFMM4, which is why I didn't bring it up when Darros made that mistake. You should remember; you played in that game as well. Her hypocrisy over the course of the entire game has been astounding, and she's felt kinda graspy today as well. Basically D1+D2 case, and then like today she's just been eeehhhhh... Like the whole "Marth and Shin are buddies because [really bullshit association]" thing is bad enough on its own, but when you get to how she was criticizing my own associative reads earlier it looks like she's really just trying to find any reason at all to secure a mislynch. Your D2 reads, with the exception of BBM, depended on whether I flipped town or scum. My scumteam guess depended on Marth-Shinori interactions and the existence of a hooker, and not if someone flipped town or scum. They're not comparable. The rest of your case makes sense and I won't argue against it because I realize and agree that I've played poorly/hypocritically for most of this game. which reads like trying to set up a Shinori mislynch to me. Obviously, FMPOV, I have no idea if lynching Shinori would be a mislynch. Though, by your saying this, it looks like you think Shinori's town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Yeh i say we actually stop and power turbo lynch FFM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 this is dumb, we keep prolonging this phase expecting new content when ffm and cam give a fuck about this game. I'm ok with an ffm lynch bcuz scumteam is probs gp/ffm/euk also it isn't a 1v1 thx to shinori spoiling his plan and cam/ffm not even posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 We didn't have colored, bolded lines at the end of our role PMs detailing what our essential role names were in SFMM4, which is why I didn't bring it up when Darros made that mistake. You should remember; you played in that game as well. Well. I just checked my NSFMM4 Role PM and you're right. I think I might've been remembering the scum QT in which we were given fakes that said things like "Paperblade, Town Know-It-All (1-shot Backup)." It's still a weak reason to vote imo, but it is less so than I had thought. Your D2 reads, with the exception of BBM, depended on whether I flipped town or scum. My scumteam guess depended on Marth-Shinori interactions and the existence of a hooker, and not if someone flipped town or scum. They're not comparable. I agree; they're not comparable, but not in the way you assert. My reads at that time (and they were bad, I can admit that) depended on you being scum, but you were scummy regardless of association. Your scumreads only had scumminess because of association, AND they definitely depended on whether the other is scum, in that if Shinori flipped town your read on Marth would be completely invalidated (except that the game would be over so it would be too late). tl;dr - my reads were bad, your reads were worse. Obviously, FMPOV, I have no idea if lynching Shinori would be a mislynch. Though, by your saying this, it looks like you think Shinori's town? There is literally no point in pointing out your claimed POV; FMPOV I can't know. Yes, I do think he's town; I've said this already multiple times. Yeh i say we actually stop and power turbo lynch FFM. I'm okay with an FFM lynch, since I think he's scum for reasons I've already mentioned, but I'm more confident in my GP read and would prefer that if we can still make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 There's a chance that Shinori/Bluedoom/Euk are scum trying to turbo-lynch a townie who isn't as active as he should be (i.e me). Don't really know how to prove I'm town without sounding like a broken record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 There's a chance that Shinori/Bluedoom/Euk are scum trying to turbo-lynch a townie who isn't as active as he should be (i.e me). Don't really know how to prove I'm town without sounding like a broken record. I'll give you a hint: that post is a poor way to do so. Marth your post is also bad; back things up. If you want someone lynched you make a fucking case. Also do you believe that I am bussing both of my buddies right now? Please explain why I'm on that scumteam; you haven't really mentioned finding me scummy at all. Also we're prolonging this phase because I'm the only one making actual cases. Also also it is a 1v1 because scum can definitely be assed to quickhammer even if they look like they give fuck-all about this game - it takes one post - and they were both online since you voted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 HE MAGICALLY APPEARS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HIM GETTING LYNCHED LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Would I be so inclined to avoid drawing fire if I were scum? It's not like Mafia will lose if one of them gets lynched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Why do you seem so confident that scum are going to win then ffm? You seem extremely confident that scum will win. Like I really don't like that sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Yeh I'm honestly leaning FFM/marf/refa scum team at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I'm gonna have to vote tonight though because I won't be around tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Why do you seem so confident that scum are going to win then ffm? You seem extremely confident that scum will win. Like I really don't like that sentence. If a townie gets lynched Mafia will win. That's what LYLO means, right? Don't twist what I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Shinori could you please back up why you think that's the scumteam? If you have a good case I want to hear it. Hell, I'd want to hear even a bad case. If you vote someone and just leave it's quite possible that we won't be able to secure ANY lynch because people would be unconvinced, and that's universal loss territory; even if we hit the lynch threshold, unless THE ENTIRE TOWN votes together then we're hosed. The levels of apathy in this game are ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Well one thing. Marth is voting GP and no lynch has happened. That means that one of the two is scum. GP is just being a little crazy and I can't really see that a scum GP with buddies would be acting like this. Two. Marth made a few randomly snide comments so far this day phase that look really weird. The comment about how FFM could be ninja who just wanted to claim REALLY stands out to me. Why FFM specifically? He things Refa is the most obvtown person here which I disagree with. His safeguarding action really just doesn't sit well with me. Random targeted day 1 which is fine but then randomly swapped day 2 to refa which could make sense if he's town and reads refa as town but it also fits perfectly as scum. There is no evidence that he targeted me Day 1 and with no docs it fits perfectly well to use on a target that is plausable to be targeted by someone from town side. Especially if he didn't want X person to get like inspected. If he wanted to protect Refa from being inspected via role cop then targeting him is the perfect idea. I mean there is zero reason to use it on the kill target because no docs. And using it on refa means we can't inspect him and if they send refa to do a kill then that means he can't be redirected or roleblocked. It's literally like the best use of a scum safeguard in this situation. Refa hasn't done anything at all this day phase WRT FFM OR MARTH. Or technically Cam either. I really feel Refa/FFM are scum and marf/Cam would be my guess for the last scum slot. But I mean like GP is just so scummy as well. x.x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I really feel like GP's interactions with Refa at the end of D1 where he deflects her wagon are much more scummy than anything between Refa and Marth. For me much of Refa's scumminess comes from his interactions with GP and his lacklustre content today, like it feels like he's just been sorta ~lurking~ and waiting for town to fuck up. I don't really see Marth fitting into this equation. While I can sorta see where you're coming from on the usage of Marth's role, I just don't really see why he'd claim it as scum if he was buddies with Refa, instead of just claiming vanilla and not drawing attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Cam, Refa, I see you reading. (Marth as well, but you've been posting.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I NEED TO VOTE. I'm about to sleep. Lynch preferences go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I need to read, I was out to dinner! Fried ice cream is the best, you guys. So good~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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