Bonus Map Tier List

[Snowy_One]

Alright. Due to the suggestion in the topic, I figured I may as well try. This is the tier list for the bonus maps of PoR.

Now, before we begin, I want to make the rules and standards of this list that vary from normal tier lists clear.

1) It is assumed that all maps and characters, even those requiring a GBA link, are unlocked.

2) This list will assume that the characters have been leveled specifically for the bonus maps. How the unit performed in the 'normal' gameplay will not be considered.

3) However, it is to be kept in mind that sensible decisions for the normal mode must at least be acknowledged. EX: While it is not impossible for Elincia to have an Ike A support by any means, it must at least be acknowledged that, to do so, he would have to pass up Titania, Oscar, Soren, Lethe, Reyson, and Ranulf, all of whom come earlier (and may offer better bonuses) to do so. This does make a Elincia/Ike support less-likely, but not impossible.

4) While a unit can claim resources freely/without contradiction to other units, it must be kept REASONABLE! While it is okay to assume a unit who fights a lot and needs some extra STR will get an energy drop, showering the unit with items is unacceptable.

5) Each map is to only be played once.

Now, on to the actual list. Please note that, as of now, this list is merely me 'eyeballing' it. I do not claim to have a solid reason for these placements beyond that they seem 'probable' for such a setting. Additionally, since my copy of PoR does not have all the characters unlocked, I apologize for not having stats. I am assuming, ATM, that the bonus characters have their boss-stats.

Top tier

Ashnard

Tibarn

Giffca
Oscar
Kieran

High

Naesala

Reyson

Jill

Makalov

Titania

Astrid

Boyd

Ike

Marcia

Petrine

Upper-Mid

Tanith

Mordecai

Geoffrey

Soren
Ilyana

Calill

Tormod

Mid

Mist
Nephenee
Mia

Zihark

Stefan

Muarim

Haar

Lower-Mid

Bryce

Rhys

Brom
Gatrie

Lucia
Devdan

Lethe

Elincia

Low

Janaff
Ranulf

Bastian

Largo

Rolf

Shinon
Tauroneo

Shiharam

Bottom

Ulki

Volke
Nasir
Ena

Oliver

Sothe

Edited June 5, 2014 by Snowy_One

[Xator Nova]

why are nasir and ena so low

[Tables]

Could you please not use pet names in the main tier list? Especially as this list has a bunch of characters who are Trial Map unique, I found it a little confusing to look though and expect I'm probably not alone.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Tables

[Ϲharlie]

The only pet name I see is "Tibbers", and I think it's easy enough to figure out who that is.

[Snowy_One]

why are nasir and ena so low

Mainly cause I don't know where they'd end up going. There is little doubt that they are strong, but at the same time they have low movement and, honestly, I'm really just not sure where to put them at all. Are they strong enough to be in low? Fast enough to be in lower-mid? Do they handle their gauge well enough for mid? Possibly upper-mid or high? I really just don't know.

[Tables]

The only pet name I see is "Tibbers", and I think it's easy enough to figure out who that is.

There's also Mike.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Tables

[General Horace]

Try typing his name on the forum and it gets changed to Mike, or Mikeael.

people are getting upset about smash bros or something.

Edited June 3, 2014 by General Horace

[PKL]

Then he shall be known as Aiku. Also Ena and Nasir blow.

Edited June 3, 2014 by PKL

[NinjaMonkey]

Surely Ashnard should have his own tier above everybody else, since he's invincible (except for maybe rocks hitting him).

[Chiki]

Mike! Hahahaha.

Not enough credit is given to 2-range users, for example; none of the laguz can do it. Ike is far too low and he should be in top tier along with Ashnard due to optimal resource distribution.

Surely Ashnard should have his own tier above everybody else, since he's invincible (except for maybe rocks hitting him).

Along with Ike, who is generally the recipient of Resolve + Wrath, making him near-invincible but even more dangerous than Ashnard.

[XeKr]

What's stopping Flier+Wishblade+Resolve+Wrath? Plus Ashnard and Reyson and you should steamroll.

EDIT: Well basically, can you clarify the continuity issue? Mike can easily beat Ashnard with Aether (or nothing), just more slowly, which is probably relevant if units are being "leveled for the bonus maps."

EDIT2: If concerned about weapon uses, Resolve+Wrath+Forge should suffice, no?

Edited June 3, 2014 by XeKr

[bottlegnomes]

Yeah, gotta agree with Chiki about a couple of things.

Ike should be way higher, if not second only to Ashnard. About the only ones I can really buy above him are mounted units with 1-2 range. And even then, Ike's a lot more durable and has much stronger 1-2 range and no worries of running out of weapons (though should this really be a concern?).

The royals should drop to below everyone with good 1-2 range combat and similar move.

If Titania's going to be that high, Petrine should be way higher. The only real differences are supports, Titania's better luck, and Petrine's better magic, meaning she can actually use magic weapons fairly well. They have almost identical strength and speed, with durability sort of evening out between Petrine's better def and res and Titania's better HP. A three tier gap is absolutely absurd, unless you're counting recruitment costs, in which case Ashnard should be a little lower.

Also, IIRC, the boss characters have their hard mode stats, save Ashnard, just FYI.

[Snowy_One]

What's stopping Flier+Wishblade+Resolve+Wrath? Plus Ashnard and Reyson and you should steamroll.

Firstly that is a bit iffy on the resource distribution, but regardless. Nothing is stopping Ashnard/Reyson, but that's only two moves at best and you have multiple fliers as well as other units. Ashnard may be invincible, but he's not gonna be the sole contributor.

If Titania's going to be that high, Petrine should be way higher. The only real differences are supports, Titania's better luck, and Petrine's better magic, meaning she can actually use magic weapons fairly well. They have almost identical strength and speed, with durability sort of evening out between Petrine's better def and res and Titania's better HP. A three tier gap is absolutely absurd, unless you're counting recruitment costs, in which case Ashnard should be a little lower.

Fair enough. But where would you suggest she go?

EDIT: Well basically, can you clarify the continuity issue? Mike can easily beat Ashnard with Aether (or nothing), just more slowly, which is probably relevant if units are being "leveled for the bonus maps."

Well, basically I'm not going to drop, say, Rolf down simply because he sucks in the normal story. At the same time giving him Resolve in the bonus maps (ignoring that it would be a poor choice there) wouldn't be a good choice because of how valuable it would be on other units in the story. So, I guess the way to say it is 'A unit won't be denied the ability to level and get a skill that makes sense, but that 'sense' includes how useful it is in the standard mode'. I think there should be a 'resolve clause'. Namely 'since the vast majority of units are good with Resolve, the use of this skill will be ignored unless it came with the unit'. Cause with that extra strength and speed almost any unit is good and, since we're only dealing with the bonus maps, we can't say 'Ike will get it to beat Ashnard' as an excuse to not factor in how good, say, Oscar is with it.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Snowy_One

[bottlegnomes]

Upper-mid somewhere? I don't know. This list is all kinds of screwed as far as I'm concerned. Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the effort, but it seems like a trial map tier list should prioritize the following (given the criteria you're using to judge):

weapon selection

20/20 stats

movement/supports (not sure which would be more important)

If we're leveling a party solely for the trial maps, we'll be making sure to get them to 20/20 (which isn't hard at all, aside from maybe HM) and building the best supports based on maxed levels. Since the units have already been leveled, recruited, and no experience is gained, none of the stuff like recruitment time and base stats that are important to regular tier lists really matter.

Edited June 4, 2014 by bottlegnomes

[Chiki]

Why are we calling him Mike?

What's stopping Flier+Wishblade+Resolve+Wrath?

It's not optimal to give a flier Resolve + Wrath in any playthrough. Mike also has an infinite use weapon.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Chiki

[Snowy_One]

We're not calling him that. It changes whenever someone tries to post or edit it.

Anyways, I do see your point BG. Without the chapter progression it is fairly straight-forwards since we can simply run down the list of criteria. Even removing Resolve from the equation won't 'fix' much since a lot of units can become super-strong without it if we remove the main game. After all, Ena may suck in the main game, but she becomes... less sucky... when one doesn't have to factor in the BEXP dump. She'd bypass Sothe at least.

[Chiki]

It must be like some sort of censor. That's actually quite funny.

The Wishblade only has 20 uses, so I don't understand why people would suggest using Resolve + Wrath on a flier.

[Elieson]

It must be like some sort of censor. That's actually quite funny.

The Wishblade only has 20 uses, so I don't understand why people would suggest using Resolve + Wrath on a flier.

Probably because Javelins are a thing

[Chiki]

Probably because Javelins are a thing

Forged Javelins have 11 might, a Wishblade has 5 more might than that. A Ragnell has 18 might. Pretty significant.

[Snowy_One]

However, Ragnell is specific to one person, the Wishblade is not.

Okay, I think it is clear that some reconstruction needs to be put in to how this list is going to function in the first place. As many of you are far more experienced than me (outside of Mia/Zihark debates at least), do you have any suggestions?

[Elieson]

Forged Javelins have 11 might, a Wishblade has 5 more might than that. A Ragnell has 18 might. Pretty significant.

Ike can't fly. Falcos have a cap of -3 Str under our blue haired badass, but Resolve will give them +11, which puts Javelin forges at higher Mt than base footbound Aiku

Jill has -1 Spd, but +1 Str over him, and can also Fly. Add resolve for significant offensive gain.

While Javelins are finite in use, you can load up someone with 3-4 and I assume have it last quite a while.

[PKL]

Jill would rather Hand Axe forges tho.

[Chiki]

Mike can't fly. Falcos have a cap of -3 Str under our blue haired badass, but Resolve will give them +11, which puts Javelin forges at higher Mt than base footbound Aiku

Jill has -1 Spd, but +1 Str over him, and can also Fly. Add resolve for significant offensive gain.

While Javelins are finite in use, you can load up someone with 3-4 and I assume have it last quite a while.

Can we see the trial maps considered for this tier list? I've only seen a few.

[Elieson]

Jill would rather Hand Axe forges tho.

I guess depending on enemy weaponry (Does Jill prefer HA Forges when enemies have swords?)

[bottlegnomes]

@Chiki, http://www.fireemblemwod.com/fe9/trialmap.htm here's a link to WoD's page of them.

@Eli, I'd guess hand axes. The enemies in trial maps aren't terribly fast, IIRC, so the minor hit difference can probably be made up pretty easily between her innate hit and +hit bonuses. Then again, it's been forever since I played them, so the difference in hit might be be more important than the +1 mt or whatever.

I do think we should figure out exactly what criteria we're using for this list for future reference.

My one issue with the fliers > Ike is resolve. I'm not entirely opposed to them being over him regardless of resolve, but if it's solely because of resolve, then that opens up some issues. First, who all goes above Ike? There's no question that a resolve flier would be better than Ike, but do we put all of them above him? If so, that seems a little off, given that only one of them will actually get it. If we only put one above him b/c of only one resolve, then which one do we give it to, and do we ignore the possibility of giving it to the others?

Also, should resolve pallies be considered for above Ike, too?

And lastly, from a quick glance, Haar looks to be the best potential candidate for flier + resolve. Highest str cap and speed really doesn't matter past a certain point, which he can reach fairly easily with resolve.