British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[eclipse]

Wait, how does that make sense? Aren't you not dead today?

I have made a case against Shinori and I'm still building one. What are you talking about?

No. My reasons for voting Psych had nothing to do with the role they had, though I found it possible scum role this is a role madness game. Neighbourizer is slightly more portable to other alignments because profits scum in an identical way to town. Unlike Announcer, it lets someone gain a buddy in private who cannot out the Neighbourizer on the fly without looking strange. It's also not anonymous. Neighbourizer is a both scum hunting tool and personal confidence building tool in this way. Announcer's primary use is anonymous public scumhunting which is almost entire pro-town by comparison. Either way, it doesn't make sense to me for someone to use the Neighbourizer role purely to prove that you have it.

The data is my voting record, the proven claim, and not having done anything that is has actually hurt town other than being a distraction. I have not asked for role information on from anyone who did not flip scum, so even that should be forgivable as a risky but effective move for a newbie.

You have all but confirmed that I am not mafia but still want to believe I am the ITP. At best, it has clouded your judgment and tainted your reads of my posts. At worst, it shows that you want to mudsling at me. You need to address these mistakes or at least take a step back and realize just how biased you are being: I did not complain about not lynching eclipse. I did not say or heavily imply that I was reading her as scum.

Why are you asking me to OMGUS? I don't see how the 'Try me' bid is pro-town. Please explain.

1. Read the rest of my post, which has the answer you seek.

2. I'm not Baldrick, but here's my take on it. First, mafia announcer isn't unheard of - hell, I won my first scum game as mafia announcer (which was included because everyone at the time didn't think that mafia announcer existed). Second, I don't really care who you ask role info from - the situation matters, and the fact that you said "only from scum" makes me feel worse about you (because there's no way you'd know for certain whether or not someone was scum unless you were scum). You're only on defense, and barely on offense, and THAT hurts the town. Lastly, telling the game that I got a "free pass" implies that you don't have a town read on me.

I should not be having this conversation. ;/

[eclipse]

Oh, right, and that last proper paragraph is really condescending.

[Baldrick]

@Makaze:

I am saying how your comment about eclipse has scum intent.

Neighbouriser is risky for mafia to use in case they slip, and helps information spread more than announcer does. They're both pro-town roles, but not pro-town enough to suggest they can only be one alignment.

The data is my voting record, the proven claim, and not having done anything that is has actually hurt town other than being a distraction.

I have not asked for role information on from anyone who did not flip scum, so even that should be forgivable as a risky but effective move for a newbie.

1. How does that make you not ITP or gutsy mafia (it's not 100% disproof of the latter)

2. Already covered it

3. Lol that's not data

4. Are you saying you knew Psych was scum?

You are scummy, so I voted you. You said that eclipse's post "nothing scum couldn't safely do". That implies you have some suspicion of her.

You also said "If this continues I will have to drop my free pass for the Paper and Junko situation from earlier and consider him a primary scum read." which is a veiled threat against me. I want you to unveil it so I can address it.

[Darros]

Darros: Case against me. NOW.

Well I did say later but I guess it is my own damn fault for clicking on the notification.

What I've seen from you today is a lot of content, but the only real scumhunting I'm seeing is towards Eury. The rest doesn't seem to be very much. But yet, you're voting for Shinori? I don't get it. If you think someone is scum, why not vote them instead of placing a prod on someone who's not likely to do anything about it anyway. It's not a strong read, honestly, but it's more than what I have against pretty much everything else.

For today though I'd want to look into Eury/Makaze. I'm not feeling great about the two, and I think one of them is scum. I know I said I thought Eury was town earlier but I'm a lot less confident about it now, and I'm not so sure about Makaze. Earlier he just seemed like obvscum/hostile/ITP/whatever but now my reads are getting fuzzier on him. ugh

[Makaze]

am i scum?

No. Just making the point that my role is more town than your role.

1. Read the rest of my post, which has the answer you seek.

2. I'm not Baldrick, but here's my take on it. First, mafia announcer isn't unheard of - hell, I won my first scum game as mafia announcer (which was included because everyone at the time didn't think that mafia announcer existed). Second, I don't really care who you ask role info from - the situation matters, and the fact that you said "only from scum" makes me feel worse about you (because there's no way you'd know for certain whether or not someone was scum unless you were scum). You're only on defense, and barely on offense, and THAT hurts the town. Lastly, telling the game that I got a "free pass" implies that you don't have a town read on me.

I should not be having this conversation. ;/

1. It doesn't. If your suspicion has any merit at all you would be dead, unless you are a bullet proof role. Yet you still brought up the suspicion after you survived.

Why did you press that I didn't talk about you if you knew it meant nothing?

2. That's news to me but oh well. Those are my reasons for claiming however weak they may be in retrospect.

@Makaze:

I am saying how your comment about eclipse has scum intent.

Neighbouriser is risky for mafia to use in case they slip, and helps information spread more than announcer does. They're both pro-town roles, but not pro-town enough to suggest they can only be one alignment.

1. How does that make you not ITP or gutsy mafia (it's not 100% disproof of the latter)

2. Already covered it

3. Lol that's not data

4. Are you saying you knew Psych was scum?

You are scummy, so I voted you. You said that eclipse's post "nothing scum couldn't safely do". That implies you have some suspicion of her.

You also said "If this continues I will have to drop my free pass for the Paper and Junko situation from earlier and consider him a primary scum read." which is a veiled threat against me. I want you to unveil it so I can address it.

You're trying to equate them but the fact is Announcer has less application for anti-town moves than pro-town moves. Comparatively, there are some creative uses of Neighbourizer that could make it a powerful mafia role. Anyway, like I said already, it's not the role itself that bothered me with Psych but how he used it.

1. Balance of probability. It is unlikely that I would be this gutsy as either anti-town side.

2. Your 'covering it' is saying it doesn't matter. Explicitly dismissing it is still ignoring it.

3. Yes it is. The absence of harmful content is data, especially when paired with helpful content.

4. I didn't 'know' in the sense of having a mod tell me but as far as I was concerned there was no possible way he could flip town. Believe it or not, my confidence in my reads is strengthened to the point of absolute confidence when I turn out to be right twice in a row.

I have some suspicion on everyone who isn't confirmed town because as far as I know anyone who isn't confirmed town can be either the mafia or the ITP. eclipse it definitely not confirmed town. If someone is not confirmed town, giving them a free pass is bad.

You can address it either way. What you want is an actual vote so that you have more to paint with. Like I said, I don't get how your asking for a hasty vote on you is pro-town and would like to hear it.

[Prims]

I don't think Shinori or Makaze is mafia but at this point I'd vote Makaze over Shinori so that people can shut the fuck up about him and stop using him as a distraction.

Did people even read and consider my j00 case?

[Prims]

With the JK dead, my personal theory is that the SK shot Darros and the last scum shot the SK, who probably has a BPV as well.

Scum, want to claim and tell us who you shot last night? :>

[Makaze]

Did people even read and consider my j00 case?

I read it and considered it but it doesn't sound very strong to me. I'm reading a lot of 'doesn't make him town' instead of 'makes him scum'. What actual anti-town things has j00 done?

[Shinori]

You are dodging again. The main challenge is about your sheepiness and the main evidence cited is your question. It is a hard tell of a sheepy attitude. If you did not want to lynch FFM, you did not need to ask. You have enough experience to know that we did not need a hammer and if you wanted one you could have done it either way. It seems to me that the only reason to ask is to absolve yourself so that no matter what you did you could say you asked and therefore it isn't a tell of your behavior. This kind of self-defensive sheeping is scummy. If not that, what was the point in asking?

I didn't dodge anything. "The main challenge is about my sheepiness." You will take it as you will. I didn't sheep onto the wagons I may have sheeped thoughts or opinions onto other players but that's honestly because I've just been skimming and more or less trying to sheep people I feel are town, like Prims or Eury.

As for lynching FFM: I haven't been doing shit. Me putting down a hammer isn't entirely going to be helpful or not helpful. Me sitting around till phase end doesn't matter either. If I wanted to hammer I would have but I didn't care too much and I also wanted to see if people would be willing to swap to you > FFM, which I brought up. Thus why I didn't hammer. The only reason I asked if people wanted a hammer was if there was no chance in hell people would swap votes to you and people just wanted to get the phase over with. Cause sitting around pointlessly for X hours wouldn't help anything either. It doesn't increase discussion. Your so called challenge against me isn't a challenge. You aren't challenging me. You are just putting forth some sort of case against me. Please use different wording. :(

I don't think Shinori or Makaze is mafia but at this point I'd vote Makaze over Shinori so that people can shut the fuck up about him and stop using him as a distraction.

Did people even read and consider my j00 case?

I read your J00 case and I like it. I just haven't taken the time to read through J00's ISO myself out of laziness which is really bad but I feel like I would be fine with lynching J00 if Makaze wasn't going to be lynched, pretty much solely based on your case and cause SHEEP(P.S. THIS IS ME SHEEPING PRIMS ON HIS READS CAUSE I THINK HES TOWN AND CAUSE PRIMS ALWAYS SAYS I DO WHAT HE SAYS EVENTUALLY). I don't know who else after that. I still honestly think I'd prefer Makaze myself though.

[eclipse]

Well I did say later but I guess it is my own damn fault for clicking on the notification.

What I've seen from you today is a lot of content, but the only real scumhunting I'm seeing is towards Eury. The rest doesn't seem to be very much. But yet, you're voting for Shinori? I don't get it. If you think someone is scum, why not vote them instead of placing a prod on someone who's not likely to do anything about it anyway. It's not a strong read, honestly, but it's more than what I have against pretty much everything else.

For today though I'd want to look into Eury/Makaze. I'm not feeling great about the two, and I think one of them is scum. I know I said I thought Eury was town earlier but I'm a lot less confident about it now, and I'm not so sure about Makaze. Earlier he just seemed like obvscum/hostile/ITP/whatever but now my reads are getting fuzzier on him. ugh

You think I'm having this nice chat with Makaze for the sake of upping my post count? I'm also deriving a read off of Baldrick, and to a lesser extent, j00 and you as well. I still think Shinori's a better lynch at the moment, because the offense/defense part also applies to him. You also say that what you have against me is more than what you have against everyone else, yet that entire second paragraph contradicts that.

Makaze (no, I'm not quoting that): Reread that ONE MORE TIME. Do you see a vote on you from me? It's something that's still in the back of my mind, but as I have no way of proving whether or not it's true, I can't use it in a case against you (since it'll go nowhere). I'm also shuffling around a few more pieces of information, most of which is public, and I'm coming up with a gigantic question mark, and I don't like gigantic question marks this late into the game.

Prims: Yes, I did, but it seems that you'll need to scream it again or something.

[Prims]

I read it and considered it but it doesn't sound very strong to me. I'm reading a lot of 'doesn't make him town' instead of 'makes him scum'. What actual anti-town things has j00 done?

The only "doesn't make her town" points were in regards to Day 2. I already explained that the reasons I think she's scum are the lazy day 3 where as mafia she'd have no reason to care after dropping the FFM vote because people wouldn't lynch her anyway, and how she mentioned Paper and Psych being hard to read for lurking D1 but never did anything to push them or try to figure out their alignment. Her case on me today is also severely understating my contribution for the sake of voting me. I also think her Psych votepost looked like she still had more on Darros but had to justify a Psych switch quick because he was a sinking ship.

[Makaze]

As for lynching FFM: I haven't been doing shit. Me putting down a hammer isn't entirely going to be helpful or not helpful. Me sitting around till phase end doesn't matter either. If I wanted to hammer I would have but I didn't care too much and I also wanted to see if people would be willing to swap to you > FFM, which I brought up. Thus why I didn't hammer. The only reason I asked if people wanted a hammer was if there was no chance in hell people would swap votes to you and people just wanted to get the phase over with. Cause sitting around pointlessly for X hours wouldn't help anything either. It doesn't increase discussion. Your so called challenge against me isn't a challenge. You aren't challenging me. You are just putting forth some sort of case against me. Please use different wording. :(

Is there some kind of difference between building a case in public and challenging someone? If so, then my bad.

I built a case where you could see. Might not have been what you call a challenge, but the responses after that were, and you responded badly. My challenge to was to justify your behavior.

If you meant 'can't we lynch Makaze instead' then you should have asked that; it would have helped you put the thought back into peoples' heads and been an actual non-sheeping contribution. But you didn't. Why didn't you?

[Prims]

For the record I am seriously considering lynching Makaze since if he's scum, great, if he's town then we can stop having "B-BUT MAKAZE IS OBVIOUSLY THE SK GUYS" interfere with our scumhunting every day. Unfortunately, assuming all kills succeed tonight, the latter scenario would leave us with 0 mislynches barring crossfire and we'd have to be hella confident.

[eclipse]

Prims: Thoughts on this? I'm looking backwards on a few other things, because something's bugging me.

[eclipse]

For the record I am seriously considering lynching Makaze since if he's scum, great, if he's town then we can stop having "B-BUT MAKAZE IS OBVIOUSLY THE SK GUYS" interfere with our scumhunting every day. Unfortunately, assuming all kills succeed tonight, the latter scenario would leave us with 0 mislynches barring crossfire and we'd have to be hella confident.

If I want to rolespec, I'm positive he's not the SK. I still haven't made up my mind whether or not he's the final mafia member.

[Makaze]

Makaze (no, I'm not quoting that): Reread that ONE MORE TIME. Do you see a vote on you from me? It's something that's still in the back of my mind, but as I have no way of proving whether or not it's true, I can't use it in a case against you (since it'll go nowhere). I'm also shuffling around a few more pieces of information, most of which is public, and I'm coming up with a gigantic question mark, and I don't like gigantic question marks this late into the game.

You missed my point. Having suspicion on me is one thing, but your line of questioning was specifically targeted around a suspicion that was already cleared up before the day started. I don't get why you chose to address that particular argument instead of going for something more concrete.

The only "doesn't make her town" points were in regards to Day 2. I already explained that the reasons I think she's scum are the lazy day 3 where as mafia she'd have no reason to care after dropping the FFM vote because people wouldn't lynch her anyway, and how she mentioned Paper and Psych being hard to read for lurking D1 but never did anything to push them or try to figure out their alignment. Her case on me today is also severely understating my contribution for the sake of voting me. I also think her Psych votepost looked like she still had more on Darros but had to justify a Psych switch quick because he was a sinking ship.

I see what you mean, especially with the out of nowhere vote on you. But I can still see this being town infighting, especially with you two scum reading each other. I feel much worse about Shinori.

[Shinori]

I kind of want to lynch Makaze instead of FFM. Personal preference but I don't think there is enough people around before then to swap.

Just for reference so Makaze can see that I did say I wanted to lynch him instead TO get the idea into people's heads.

[Prims]

If I want to rolespec, I'm positive he's not the SK. I still haven't made up my mind whether or not he's the final mafia member.

I'm very confident Makaze isn't the final mafia member - everything j00 has used to defend herself about late Day 2 applies to Makaze tenfold, only with Makaze it's a lot more meaningful because he was on Cam earlier in the day and definitely did not need to switch back if Psych was his buddy. He was also an early contributor to both scum wagons. tbh I believe you're probably legit at this point going by >implications about your role and general play since you've subbed in so yeah nevermind we're not lynching Makaze. If I'm somehow wrong then hats off to him for the very convincing bus game.

However, I don't think Shinori is scum so much as lazy town. "This guy annoys me" is not how you bus your scumbuddy.

[Makaze]

Just for reference so Makaze can see that I did say I wanted to lynch him instead TO get the idea into people's heads.

It seems you are right. I didn't see those were so close together since there was a page break.

Suspicion on the question itself is mostly negated by that.

But before I unvote, can you give me your reads on people who are not me or j00? Do you have insights that are not echoes? I haven't seen you actually do any research or hunting for yourself since that first good content post. Looking for a remedy rather than a justification this time.

[Prims]

Prims: Thoughts on this? I'm looking backwards on a few other things, because something's bugging me.

If you're talking about Boron suspecting j00 before she died, although I think j00 is scum I feel like Boron just got shot because she was basically the best townie up to that point. But I guess it's possible. I mean she was nervous about me being under-the-radar too and I'm not scum.

[eclipse]

So far, there's been four communication roles - two flipped and two claimed. Unless there's something paired with the insomniac/announcer (DON'T ANSWER THIS IN PUBLIC, YOU TWO), they're functional vanillas. So would. . .wait, shit.

##Unvote

##Vote: Cam

Based off of pure rolespec (notice the lack of actual harmful actions on the flipped mafia?).

[eclipse]

If you're talking about Boron suspecting j00 before she died, although I think j00 is scum I feel like Boron just got shot because she was basically the best townie up to that point. But I guess it's possible. I mean she was nervous about me being under-the-radar too and I'm not scum.

Not the suspicion, the reason behind the suspicion. I know I tend to lack presence when I'm scum.

(dear mom, I promise to use Preview Post next time)

[Prims]

...but Paper had a harmful action, an effective strongman and an effective rolecop.

I actually think Cam's role doesn't make sense in conjunction with Psych's, although maybe he can't redirect kills. That said, his D2 play doesn't match up with how Psych's buddy should act - he has nothing to gain from taking his time to get on the Psych wagon when the day was going to come down to Psych/Cam wagons anyway. As scum, Cam would want to either push Psych's lynch so that town would go "oh Cam was Psych's counterwagon, we can't lynch him" or attack a townie really hard as an alternative to both wagons. I can see him as SK though.

I really think lynching off rolespec today is a waste, and that we should save it for when there's only a SK left.

[Shinori]

Makaze > Kay = FFM > Joo > Cam > Other people > Me

My reads probably haven't changed all that much from this post.

Makaze > J00 > Cam > Eclipse > Other people > Me

That would probably be my current reads. As for actual definition and reasoning: I'm still partially biased towards Makaze and I honestly like Eury's case against him as well as a few other cases against him. I was already iffy on J00 previously from my last actual reads post because of slightly PoE, same with Cam. But I also like Prim's current case on him and this is enough that I feel I should put effort into glancing over his ISO and that's why he is currently #2. Cam/Eclipse are the only other two people that I'm not really reading as town besides Makaze/J00. Which puts them here as PoE. Currently if I had to pick out of the two from known info that I have from skimming and this current day phase I'd probably vote Cam > eclipse. His role seems perfect for an SK but I question why he claimed it and I'm liking Eclipse's posts.

[Shinori]

...but Paper had a harmful action, an effective strongman and an effective rolecop.

I actually think Cam's role doesn't make sense in conjunction with Psych's, although maybe he can't redirect kills. That said, his D2 play doesn't match up with how Psych's buddy should act - he has nothing to gain from taking his time to get on the Psych wagon when the day was going to come down to Psych/Cam wagons anyway. As scum, Cam would want to either push Psych's lynch so that town would go "oh Cam was Psych's counterwagon, we can't lynch him" or attack a townie really hard as an alternative to both wagons. I can see him as SK though.

I really think lynching off rolespec today is a waste, and that we should save it for when there's only a SK left.

It really fits for an SK though if you are speaking of Cam's role. It would also prevent scum from jointing with him at all or communicating with him since Psych had a neighborizer.