Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS Best Buy Event Impressions

[Randoman]

I came home from the E3 Smash Bros. Best But Event recently, and decided to share the details of the games, the lineups, and other miscellaneous info from the Event.

Other people that went to the event are free to type up their impressions as well in this thread. Also, you can ask questions about the game to the demo goers here, though I/they may not be able to give you a solid answer.

Line Up Info for Wedneday Session:

-I went 2 hours early, but there was 30 people already lined up outside the store

-Around 40 or 50 others were lined up behind me once the event started

-The line up for the Wii U version was ridiculously long, to the point that no one (not even the first 10 people in line) bothered to line up for a second session, even though Best Buy didn't prohibit it

-The line up for the 3DS version was strangely really short, with only 1 to 3 people in line

Demo Session Rules:

-Attendants were allowed 2 matches per session, with the matches both being a 2 minute time battle

-Only 3 people per match were allowed, though a Best Buy staff member occassionally joined in and made it a 4 player match (quite unfair, I know, but I personally wasn't angry about it. I have to wonder the logic behind it. Maybe they didn't want the Wii U Gamepad to be worn down from demo goers and only trusted the Best Buy staff with the Wii U Gamepad? Anyways, the Best Buy staff member usually dominated the matches he played)

-Wii U Pro Controller was the control scheme used, despite E3 using Gamecube Controllers for their demo station

-The staff heavily emphasized that you should not press the Power Button on the controller, and that they'd kick you out if you did press it

Personal Impressions from the Game Physics/Engine/etc.:

-When you get KOed and hit the screen from the front, the character will actually stay stuck on the camera for a couple of seconds before falling off. It's really comedic. =D

-You definitely fall faster than in Brawl and SSB64, though slower than Melee.

-Edge grabbing isn't as easy as it was in Brawl, it's not as hard as Melee's. and slightly easier than in SSB64. I find it be just the right balance, actually. I wasn't able to see if grabbing edges while facing the other direction was possible.

Personal Info from the characters I tried out:

-I tried out Mario and Rosalina on the Wii U version, and Luigi in Smash Run on the 3DS version

-Mario's Up Smash and Down Smash have improved in knockback significantly

-Mario's Fireball moves faster (than in all the previous Smash Bros. games) and travels further (probably the same length as SSB64) before disappearing

-Luigi scuttles for his whole initial jump, rather than doing a jump with his fist up then scuttling as he goes down like in New Super Luigi U. If only I could remember what his mid-air jump looked like and if it changed or not...

-Luigi Cyclone was able to net me a KO. Though that was likely because Luigi was heavily powered up from Smash Run

-Luigi's Down Aerial seems to be much more easier to Meteor Smash with now. I tried it out only once in the 3DS Version on the Nintendogs level meaning to send someone flying to the side, but I was suprised to have hit them downward

-Rosalina was hard to use. Of the Smash veterans, she played most similarly to Zelda with her big frame, floaty and slow movement, and magic based normal attacks

-Rosalina's attacks generally aren't particularly powerful knockback-wise like Zelda's are, though Rosalina's throws are quite strong and on the level of Zelda's

-Rosalina's side special only has the Luma attacking with Star Bits, and not Rosalina herself

How I Personally Did During My Matches:

-Getting used to the Wii U Pro Controller and 3DS controls for Smash was quite weird. The B button being at the bottom and me expecting it to be the normal attack button was especially weird. I eventually caught on to the controls, but I hardly defended or dodged since the controls were too unfamiliar to me, and I didn't feel comfortable with throwing in learning defending/dodging over again when I was still getting the hang of normal attacks/specials/jumping. I did grab a few times though since I like implementing grabs in my play style

-My first Wii U match I chose Mario and I was up against a Little Mac and Samus in Mushroom Kingdom U. I did well and didn't get KOed. I really exploited Little Mac's weak recovery and KOed him once with a down smash near the edge one time and edgeguarded him with a Back Air another time. I won that one easily since I exploited Little Mac's air/recovery weakness and the Samus player was my friend who's just starting to pick up on Smash Bros. (and only recently got the hang of recovery after being knocked off the stage)

-The second Wii U match I chose Rosalina and I was up against a Zero Suit Samus and Greninja in Wuhu Island. That match was quite the disaster. I couldn't get the hang of Rosalina at all and I didn't find any of her projectiles to be reliable. You had to wait for quite a while before firing Luma again and Luma has to be close to Rosalina for it to fire as a projectile, and the Star Bits weren't too reliable due to me having a hard time controlling Luma's location. I could do very little against the Zero Suit Samus player due to her long range and Rosalina not having many options to counter her range (or at least, any options that I knew of and could reliably use at the time). Rosalina's definitely harder to learn than the Ice Climbers, since at least Ice Climbers follow all the rules of regular Smash characters, only with a similar CPU partner tagging along. I have no idea how to reliably control Luma.

-I did one Smash Run play on the 3DS with Luigi, against CPUs. I accidently killed myself first thing. XD. Though I didn't die at all after that, and it's not like I lost any powers from dying first things since I didn't have any. It was somewhat similar to SSE, except with loads of enemies in the area and practically every section being packed with foes to fight. I didn't notice any new enemies that weren't already shown. There was only one door I found and entered, which lead to a bonus room where you need to break a large crystal by attacking it within 30 seconds. I beat that challenge in 15 or so seconds and got rewarded with quite a lot of powerups from it.

-The 3DS Smash Match itself had me against Fox, Toon Link, and Greninja on the Nintendogs stage. I felt quite the difference in power from Smash Run since knockback was much higher. It was a 2 minute time match, and I got 6 KOs while only getting KOed once. Needless to day, I dominated that match.

Stage Info:

-Mushroom Kingdom U's world elements mixed in with each other. Eg: Huge beanstalks from the Sparkling Waters showed up in Meringue Clouds and Giant Urchins from Sparkling Waters showed up in Peach's Castle

-You can go on the bottom set of Wings on the Wuhu Island stage.

-There's no damaging hazards in Wuhu Island

-The plane swapping in Wuhu Island isn't as dangerous as it seems since the new plane will come from below, so it's not like you can get left behind since you'll just fall and land on the new plane.

-The Nintendogs stage just starts with an empty living room floor, then eventually has toy pieces fall on the floor.

-I think the pieces hurt you as they fall down from what I remember

Things I learned from others' matches:

-Mario still keeps the Mario Finale, but damage and in terms of comboing within itself, it's been improved greatly.

-Link still keeps the Triforce Slash

-Marth still keeps the Critical Hit, though no one landed it so I don't know if the HP meter appearance has changed

-Mega Man's Final Smash requires him to shoot a black hole and absorb opponents into it before he initiates the 5 Mega Man attack. Most Mega Man players at the event whiffed that attack.

-For Greninja's up special (likely Aqua Jet), most people could only pull of the first water jet and not the second water jet

Miscellaneous Info from the Smash Bros. Demo Station:

-The rosters between the Wii U and 3DS demo versions were quite different, with things like Luigi only being in the 3DS Demo

-Mario has a new costume with light blue overalls and a pink shirt

-Wireframe Little Mac was unavailable as a costume at the demo station

-Swim Time was one of the listed stats after a battle, so swimming will likely be returning

-A regular "Smash" Mode was available in the 3DS Version, but the staff running the event said it'd only reset the 3DS Smash Bros. demo if people tried it, and that they should just stick with Smash Run instead

-The staff said "we only know as much about the game as the E3 fans do" when I asked them if they happened to know the full roster. One staff member was rather familiar with the Gematsu leak and how Shulk, Chrom, and Chorus Men will be playable if the leak is correct.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Randoman

[Ema Skye]

Zero Suit Samus and Greninja look like top tier characters because they move around the stage really fast and are pretty potent as well.

Zelda looks even worse than in Brawl, and I didn't even know it was possible. Her hitboxes are really weird.

Villager looks kinda bad. A lot of his moves seem to be single purpose moves which limits the versatility. Wii Fit Trainer is also in a similar boat but is saved because her hitboxes are huge.

Rosalina's metagame feels like it'll take forever to develop. Her range is so short that proper Luma spacing will be essential to get the most out of her. However, once you put Luma right where you need him, the combination is incredible. Give her time and I think we might have a top to high tier character in our hands.

Olimar, Pit and Mario look to be really good but I don't have first hand experience with any of them. Link and DK look to be pretty much the same.

Totally unsure about Little Mac. The range sucks and the KO Uppercut isn't good at all as the hitbox is tiny. Not to mention it resets on death. Sakurai's balancing on him seems weird because his moves give a lot of damage but they don't have a lot of knockback excluding the KO Uppercut.

Mega Man is really awkward. He's also kinda similar to Villager in that his moves are single purpose, but they have a lot of range. He and Rosalina feel like they'll easily fall to pressure though. Mega Man's short range game is virtually non-existant and Rosalina's height and weight make her an easy target.

Gameplay wise, floatyness is exactly like Sakurai described: a hybrid between Melee and Brawl. You aren't glued to the ground but you aren't floating in the sky either. Aerials and throws seem to have a lot of lag on them (Rosalina being the exception and her throw combos are actually pretty simple due to Luma), but attacks seem to start and end way faster than they did in Brawl.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Palutena

[Samias]

Zelda looks even worse than in Brawl, and I didn't even know it was possible. Her hitboxes are really weird.

Though she was out in game 1 of the invitational, I got this impression of her during the stream. I'm so disappointed. I'm going to try going to the demo event on Saturday since I promised to do something else today and I'm tempted to pick up Zelda just for one round to feel how she plays for myself, but my fingers are crossed that the numbers get tweaked pretty hard between this build and the final build. Zelda's low weight, low speed, low range, reliance on sweet spot hitboxes more than pretty much everyone else, and very few options she can pull out quickly seems like a bottom tier character in the making even without the context of the full cast.

I will refrain from speculating further until I get to play the game myself, though.

[Ema Skye]

Zelda's Upsmash took a serious hard nerf. It's so hard to do much with it now.

Kicks seem easier to land though and she's at least SPARKLY.

Phantom isn't as useful as it looks to be either. The range is really short without charging so it is easy to telegraph and it shatters on impact with anything.

Fox and Marth also feel nerfed. Fox's upsmash isn't anywhere near as potent as it was before and Marth's forward air took a huge hit with a nerfbat.

A lot of the characters feel a lot like Brawl that I think their tiering positions will stay pretty close to where they are in Brawl and then account for the change in physics.

[Jedi]

A lot of the characters feel a lot like Brawl that I think their tiering positions will stay pretty close to where they are in Brawl and then account for the change in physics.

;/ this is the worst news I've heard this whole development time.

[Anacybele]

Man, that's a bummer. And didn't Sakurai get a whole TEAM of people to do the balancing this time rather than do it himself? Wow.

I was hoping Ike would get a buff so he isn't almost low tier anymore, but I guess that isn't happening...

But Luigi is available in the demo?! YAY!

[Jedi]

Man, that's a bummer. And didn't Sakurai get a whole TEAM of people to do the balancing this time rather than do it himself? Wow.

I was hoping Ike would get a buff so he isn't almost low tier anymore, but I guess that isn't happening...

But Luigi is available in the demo?! YAY!

He may have gotten buffs we don't know. Its kinda hard to place characters when the demo only has a select few. Plus there is still months, my previous post was kinda negatory so. Its subject to change, it is Sakurai after all

[Anacybele]

Ah, yeah, that's true. And I hope some things change, you're right.

Kinda bummed that you no longer see full body characters in the background clapping during the victory screen (noticed this in the Conan video). I liked that a lot. xP

[PKL]

The Zelda thing is just wow...a lot of people are even saying her new Down B might just be the worst new move introduced in Smash 4. She does look even worse than in Brawl and that is hard to accomplish, with her being Bottom 3 there...

[Randoman]

=/

Don't you guys think it's way too early to be speculating on/making tier lists already based solely on one demo session and only a few days of observation? I'm simply just listing details and/or changes I noticed in the characters, and not bothering with tiers just yet.

I mean, those kind of things take at least two months of gameplay and observation to develop and form properly, right? I mean, even tournament players themselves thought Snake was simply mid tier within the first two weeks of Brawl being out and Mario in Melee was considered the 4th or 5th best at first, and we all should know how much that ended up changing.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Randoman

[kingddd]

=/

Don't you guys think it's way too early to be speculating on/making tier lists already based solely on one demo session and only a few days of observation? I'm simply just listing details and/or changes I noticed in the characters, and not bothering with tiers just yet.

I mean, those kind of things take at least two months of gameplay and observation to develop and form properly, right? I mean, even tournament players themselves thought Snake was simply mid tier within the first two weeks of Brawl being out and Mario in Melee was considered the 4th or 5th best at first, and we all should know how much that ended up changing.

Not only that, most E3 builds are a month or two or even more old too so I wouldn't be surprised if it's been tweaked significantly since then. A lot can happen between those two months.

[Carter]

Zero Suit Samus and Greninja look like top tier characters because they move around the stage really fast and are pretty potent as well.

I really hope this turns out to be true, once people actually start making tier lists. I normally don't listen to most of it, but seeing Zero Suit in the #9 spot for SSBB makes me pretty happy. And the fact that she got Jet Boots only helps her. It looks like she retained ALL of her previous moves (besides Up Special), except they were powered up.

It sucks to hear that people think Zelda is terrible, but I do see why they say that. I mean, she IS slow, and all that, but I believe she can be amazing.

When watching the invitational, I was rooting for Zelda in the first quarterfinal, but I think the player really screwed up. She kept aiming for Little Mac (iirc), which I feel was NOT good for her. And when the Smash ball came, she didn't even bother to go for it.

And Peach, I thought it was weird that she wasn't in the demo, though I can understand why Luigi wasn't.

Ugh... 10/3/2014. Why is it so far away?

[Samias]

Maybe Peach was absent because they're still adjusting her turnip throwing mechanic, much like how they changed Dedede's Waddle Dee throw to be Gordos instead. They might also be tweaking her Final Smash, as it was one of the more underwhelming FSes in Brawl. Plus there's all the decisions to be made about the strength of her recovery because of her horizontal float.

I've played Zelda frequently in both Melee and Brawl despite the fact that she is objectively worse than most of the other characters. Pulling off her fair or bair is extremely satisfying and I like her throws as a means of securing a KO. Plus there's some pretty cool things that can be done with Farore's Wind in the right situation. But in her current state, I don't like what I'm seeing with her. I hope the Smash team is scouring the internet for feedback now that people are posting their demo experiences online. Even if the demo is not the current build, surely the data collected from thousands of players is useful.

[Anacybele]

Guys, I'm officially gonna be heading out today! ^^

So if anyone else is going to the Fayetteville, NC Best Buy, you'll find me if you see a blonde girl sporting Luigi goodies (a green Luigi t-shirt, a Luigi plush backpack, and a smaller Luigi plush keychain on a purse). :3 (Hey, I can't not go wearing the video game character I grew up with and my favorite Nintendo character barring Ike! lol)

[Chiki]

Guys, I'm officially gonna be heading out today! ^^

So if anyone else is going to the Fayetteville, NC Best Buy, you'll find me if you see a blonde girl sporting Luigi goodies (a green Luigi t-shirt, a Luigi plush backpack, and a smaller Luigi plush keychain on a purse). :3 (Hey, I can't not go wearing the video game character I grew up with and my favorite Nintendo character barring Ike! lol)

Alright, I'll show up in an Ike cosplay while someone else shows up in a Soren cosplay, so we can make out in front of you.

You can really just go to any Best Buy and play the new SSB? Too bad I'm not in America right now.

[Anacybele]

Alright, I'll show up in an Ike cosplay while someone else shows up in a Soren cosplay, so we can make out in front of you.

You can really just go to any Best Buy and play the new SSB? Too bad I'm not in America right now.

Funny. xP

Anyway, it's only select Best Buy locations. It's going on in Canada too though, if you're there.

[Comet]

Does anybody know if pikachu's quick attack cancel is back?

[Anacybele]

Well, people, anyone following Nintendo's location list may find themselves very disappointed. Whoever made that list are jerk backstabbing liars, because my local Best Buy isn't doing it.

I can't believe they would mislead fans like this! But DO NOT follow Nintendo's list.

[Carter]

A lot of the characters feel a lot like Brawl that I think their tiering positions will stay pretty close to where they are in Brawl and then account for the change in physics.

Don't a lot of characters just carry their movesets over from Brawl to SSB4?

I would expect them to be around the same place, except the characters that got new additions (Zero Suit, Sheik). As I've said before, I don't really listen to Tier Lists, but I was happy to find out that ZSS was in the Top 10. Hopefully her new Up Special will do her justice. In vBrawl / Project M, her whip Up Special actually helped me A LOT.

And with Sheik, I think her spot will be higher on the lists. It looks like Sheik's speed and (most) moves are returning, along with the new burst grenade, and bouncing fish technique. Still, I'll be using Zelda more because I like her character.

Maybe Peach was absent because they're still adjusting her turnip throwing mechanic, much like how they changed Dedede's Waddle Dee throw to be Gordos instead. They might also be tweaking her Final Smash, as it was one of the more underwhelming FSes in Brawl. Plus there's all the decisions to be made about the strength of her recovery because of her horizontal float.

And I hope they bring back her Melee jump. In Melee, she jumped twice as high as she did in Brawl (I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but I noticed right away, as I constantly play Peach). Good thing Project M brought back her fire butt (instead of heart butt) and MELEE JUMP.

But looking at previews, Peach is still associated with hearts. She was so much better in Melee! Better, higher jump (twice as high as Brawl), and her Side Special was killer.

[Comet]

Physics and small tweaks to movesets could drastically change characters' places on the tier list. Captain Falcon, Ganon, and Jiggly were destroyed from the switch to brawl from Melee.

[shadowofchaos]

And I hope they bring back her Melee jump. In Melee, she jumped twice as high as she did in Brawl (I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but I noticed right away, as I constantly play Peach). Good thing Project M brought back her fire butt (instead of heart butt) and MELEE JUMP.

But looking at previews, Peach is still associated with hearts. She was so much better in Melee! Better, higher jump (twice as high as Brawl), and her Side Special was killer.

Her C-stick down smash in Melee always made me salty.

Then again, Metaknight's down smash made me salty in Brawl.

[NinjaMonkey]

and her Side Special was killer.

Which is why they nerfed it in the first place!

[kingddd]

I got a chance to play it at my best buy with my sister and 2 randoms. We got there early so the lineup lasted 30 mins for us. We got to play Smash Run for 8 mins on the 3DS and 4 mins of demo for the Wii U version.

I was very impressed with the 3DS version it runs very smoothly with little to no framerate issues and very precise. I chose Mario and it was pretty fun. Granted the game was CPU only. Me, my sister and another guy won their match while the other one in my group lost their smash run. We played Skyloft and Dr. Wily's Castle.

For the 4 players, we had a game of Link (my sis), Wii Fit (me), Little Mac and Megaman and the 2nd game was Pit (my sis), Little Mac, Marth (me) and Olimar. My sister beat us all and she got the white winning pin. It was a lot of fun. Link's smash attack was a huge buff and she kept killing us all with it. Wii Fit's UP+B is pretty hard to control. Marth definitely feels slightly slower a bit compared to Brawl but then again I haven't used him too much.

The gameplay is definitely a bit faster especially with the dodging and rolling. The air time floatiness is definitely like Brawl's physics and if you are expecting Melee fast you will probably be disappointed but overall I definitely like it. It's a good in between compared to the Brawl's gameplay mechanics. Overall I enjoyed it and I can't wait for the Holidays.

[NoNameAtAll]

Well, people, anyone following Nintendo's location list may find themselves very disappointed. Whoever made that list are jerk backstabbing liars, because my local Best Buy isn't doing it.

I can't believe they would mislead fans like this! But DO NOT follow Nintendo's list.

...Or the Best Buys changed shit and Nintendo, in their usual incompetence with anything internet, never had the chance to update their list.

In which case, they aren't backstabbing liars. Just incompetent sloths.

[Samias]

I got to play Zelda and Villager today on the Wii U version, and Toon Link on the 3DS version today.

Zelda thoughts:

This was my very first game with the Pro controller, and frankly I sucked. I kept hitting the wrong buttons. It was a little embarrassing. Using b especially was kind of a hassle, but mostly I'd hit a instead of x a lot of the time. The pro controller just doesn't feel right for Smash, but I think some button reassignment would help... Or I will definitely get the GCN controller adaptor and use the tried-and-true setup. With that being said, I noticed Zelda has Hilda-purple for a dress so I picked that! Yay! But as an actual combatant, not so yay. Part of this is my fault for fumbling with the controls, but even though Zelda definitely moves faster from Brawl, so does nearly everyone else so it doesn't really mean much. Din's Fire does maintain its Brawl speed but its distance was cut back, and amidst the chaos I couldn't really tell how much it was doing damage-wise. I wish I had a few more games to get used to the controls so I could say more, but alas.

Villager thoughts: I did better here because I was slowly getting used to the controller. A lot of her attacks (I played female villager) come out pretty slow, but at least her side-B is pretty feasible. Kind of like Samus's smash-side missiles in a way. Her actual movement is pretty nimble, it's just the attacks are slow. The jab comes out pretty fast I guess. Good luck landing the down+B, but you can leave it on the field for a while and come back to it. I don't know how long for sure. Kudos to the person who manages to hit anyone with that tree though. I like the projectile nair with the slingshot.

Toon Link: Basically the same as previous. No more buggy floaty business with the sword plant. It was Smash Run so I can't say how he fares compared to how he's actually supposed to be numbers-wise, though. I got to play on Arena Ferox which is a fantastic stage. Compared to its fellow Fire Emblem stage, I wish the Coliseum weren't a walk-off otherwise the two stages would be pretty much the same. But because Coliseum is a walk-off it won't be seen in competitive play. Much sadness.

The 3DS version's controls are basically the same arrangement as the pro controller, which made it easier for me to play after coming off of two games on the Wii U, except the grab is the L button because of the lack of dual triggers. Overall I found it pretty nice to play.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Samias