well done david and dan, for ruining a great book series (spoilers i guess)

[Parrhesia]

hue. You'll enjoy watching Dany's White Savior get deconstructed and completely shat upon then. Its kinda awesome and its going to get better. The potshots in her general direction filled me with so much glee.

... I've literally forgotten what happened in her part of Dance With Dragons. Fucking hell, they threw most of the shit characters in that book.

[Loki Laufeyson]

... I've literally forgotten what happened in her part of Dance With Dragons. Fucking hell, they threw most of the shit characters in that book.

Basically its all "Daenerys, your reign in Meereen fucking sucks. Oh yeah, insurgents and theres a fucking plot to remove you." Or some junk. I kinda feel sorry for Dany fans cuz man...

[spoiler=ADWD spoilers]

Dude...That book has Young Griff and hes fucking awesome!

[Phoenix Wright]

If Tyrion wanted to kill Tywin because of the trial, I dunno why they would bother having the 'tipping point' being Tywin calling Shae a whore (which Tyrion did himself at the trial). Tyrion didn't go into the Tower of the Hand because of Shae, so why make Tyrion killing Tywin be about her?

Tyrion killing Shae without dialogue between the two and Jaime just showing up in Tyrion's cell without any explanation of how he got past the guards were also just underwhelming. The whole scenes felt weirdly rushed given their importance.

tyrion wanted to kill tywin because tywin was an asshole to tyrion his entire life.

jaime didn't just show up either. the guards outside were dead.

[Le Communard]

Basically, the answer to all of your questions is that Maelys Blackfyre lives and will come to cleanse Westeros with fire and sword.

[Emeraldfox]

I prefer Match of Chairs myself.

[-Cynthia-]

tyrion wanted to kill tywin because tywin was an asshole to tyrion his entire life.

jaime didn't just show up either. the guards outside were dead.

But how did he kill them? The show established that Jaime isn't very good at fighting with his left hand yet so it's still weird to not actually show how it went down.

[Phoenix Wright]

it's not like they were kingsguard. he's still capable and has the instinct of a warrior or whatever. they didn't need to show it; they're standard guards that any featured swordsman in the series could handle.

brienne has a nice way of besting some of the best whilst they're injured. i'm okay with that. she's still a very strong swordfighter.

daenerys is a good character with a poor plot, imo. i think it might be fixed soon. martin isn't a perfect writer, and has had his fumbles throughout the series (from what i can tell), but overall it's pretty great.

[Aizenberg]

does anyone remember when brienne was struggling against a weakened, chained jaime lannister in their fight?

does anyone remember when the hound was fighting his brother? the near 8ft fellow who can smash a mans face in quite easily. was the hound struggling in that fight?

i might get a bit of hate for this but i don't care. the only reason they made brienne fight the hound and win was to pretty much pander to the female audience.

i've got nothing against book brienne, she's one of my favourite characters.

tyrion wanted to kill tywin because tywin was an asshole to tyrion his entire life.

i still don't think thats a good enough reason to go out of his way to kill tywin or shae. it's like he needed a tipping point. like i don't know, a certain lie about his previous wife that was kept hidden from him all these years. you know tysha, that character david and dan made no effort in explaining in the tv show.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Aizenberg

[Phoenix Wright]

yeaaaaah. they screwed up there.

[Parrhesia]

does anyone remember when brienne was struggling against a weakened, chained jaime lannister in their fight?

does anyone remember when the hound was fighting his brother? the near 8ft fellow who can smash a mans face in quite easily. was the hound struggling in that fight?

i might get a bit of hate for this but i don't care. the only reason they made brienne fight the hound and win was to pretty much pander to the female audience.

Weakened and chained, but Jaime still, you know, had his mainhand. And Brienne couldn't actually kill him. That would not have been productive.

Fuck, I can remember so little of anything - really do need to go through the series again.

[Chiki]

I don't understand why Varys helped Tyrion escape. In the books, Jaime catches him threatens to kill him, and that's why he does it. But Jaime isn't anywhere near Varys in the TV show.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Chiki

[Loki Laufeyson]

In the show canon, its established that Varys sees Tyrion as a positive and a means to his own agenda's end. As to what that agenda is, is a humongous spoiler, but for the show, Varys saw how Tyrion handled stuff during his tenure as Hand. Varys "allowed" Tyrion to get knocked down because it was actually advantageous to Varys' goal(s) at the time. But losing Tyrion would be a bad thing for Varys' plan.

Im speaking solely on the show here.

[spoiler=Huge Ass Spoilers for the last book]

It is kind of confusing to be perfectly honest because in the books, Varys' goal is putting who he wants in power. He makes this known to Kevan Lannister in the epilogue of ADWD. That person hes aiming for is that kid who claims to be Aegon Targaryen, son of Rhaegar. Varys came up with a huge coup and even claims to have initiated a baby swap back during the Sack. The thing is, we arent certain hes telling the truth on the matter. In fact, in this moment, Varys is being deliberately ambiguous with his wording.

Why is this confusing? Because in the show, Varys seems to be willingly aiding Tyrion, but Tyrion winds up in Illyrio Mopatis' hands in the books. We do learn that Illyrio and Varys are working together. Tyrion in the books (and im pretty sure this is gonna happen in the show too) winds up meeting the very person Varys is working to place on the Iron Throne. Tyrion acts as a huge Spanner in the Works here by goading Young Griff to abandon his plan to find Daenerys. This causes Varys to shift gears quite quickly and its left unclear if Tyrion really did him any favors.

I think the show is going to have Varys place Tyrion in Young Griff's path deliberately in order to further the plan in retrieving Dany and her dragons, versus the happenstance in the books. However, i think Tyrion is still going to play the Spanner by convincing Young Griff (and by extension, Jon Connington if he is indeed a thing) to go to Westeros instead. Thus making Varys go "man...time to accelerate the plan...Damn Imp."

I wonder if we will see Illyrio again in the show...

[Esau of Isaac]

Weakened and chained, but Jaime still, you know, had his mainhand. And Brienne couldn't actually kill him. That would not have been productive.

Fuck, I can remember so little of anything - really do need to go through the series again.

That's true, but it's well noted by her at this time that he was pressing her back easily initially even as they fought knee-deep in the water, starved for months, and manacled. She was very surprised by his ability, and I think it stated at some point that she had to abandon the idea of holding back to keep from killing him.

[Aizenberg]

yeah. people forget that jaime was once one of the best sword fighters in westeros. before the hand incident

[Chiki]

Weakened and chained, but Jaime still, you know, had his mainhand. And Brienne couldn't actually kill him. That would not have been productive.

Fuck, I can remember so little of anything - really do need to go through the series again.

This post is completely ridiculous in that it attempts to defend Brienne. Brienne not being able to kill a chained and weakened Jaime means that she's relatively weak, mainhand or not. The Mountain, the Hound, Barristan etc. likely all would have trashed a weakened and chained Jaime.

Just think about it. It doesn't matter how good you are. You can't move as well when you've been taken hostage for like a year, and you can barely move at all when you're chained.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Chiki

[Phoenix Wright]

she was able to kill, the point was that she had a tough time of besting him without hurting him.

edit: and in the show, at least, she handily defeats him. i'm not far enough in the books yet to have really seen how brienne is portrayed, but in the show, as it's been pointed out before, she is pretty damn strong (and good).

Edited June 18, 2014 by Phoenix Wright

[Esau of Isaac]

This post is completely ridiculous in that it attempts to defend Brienne. Brienne not being able to kill a chained and weakened Jaime means that she's relatively weak, mainhand or not. The Mountain, the Hound, Barristan etc. likely all would have trashed a weakened and chained Jaime.

Just think about it. It doesn't matter how good you are. You can't move as well when you've been taken hostage for like a year, and you can barely move at all when you're chained.

Brienne isn't weak so much as just not prodigious like Jaime. She managed to defeat Ser Loras in single combat, who is himself an experienced combatant. She's definitely a good fighter, but she wouldn't be able to go toe to toe with the best of the best.

she was able to kill, the point was that she had a tough time of besting him without hurting him.

edit: and in the show, at least, she handily defeats him. i'm not far enough in the books yet to have really seen how brienne is portrayed, but in the show, as it's been pointed out before, she is pretty damn strong (and good).

In the book, we see it from her point of view. I'd look up exact quotes but I sold my books on ebay and downloading it for checking is a bit arduous. Anyways, she only ends up winning because the fight is drawn into a lake and Jaime is exhausted. She eventually bests him and is drowning him by the neck when Hoat and his men show up.

[-Cynthia-]

Don't we see it from Jaime's point of view? Jaime is a PoV character during ASoS, Brienne isn't.

[Esau of Isaac]

I haven't read the book in like six years, but I'm pretty sure I remember her having some PoV chapters and the wiki seems to confirm she did.

Edit: Nevermind my reading skills suck, that's a listing for the series. Whatever. I'll download it and check the relevant bits because now I'm curious.

Okay, here's the excerpt from the fight. You were right, by the way, it was a Jaime POV:

They found Cleos still tangled in his stirrup. He had an arrow through his right arm and a second in his chest, but it was the ground that had done for him. The top of his head was matted with blood and mushy to the touch, pieces of broken bone moving under the skin beneath the pressure of Jaime’s hand.

Brienne knelt and held his hand. “He’s still warm.”
“He’ll cool soon enough. I want his horse and his clothes. I’m weary of rags and fleas.”
“He was your cousin.” The wench was shocked.
“Was,” Jaime agreed. “Have no fear, I am amply provisioned in cousins. I’ll have his sword as well. You need someone to share the watches.”
“You can stand a watch without weapons.” She rose.
“Chained to a tree? Perhaps I could. Or perhaps I could make my own bargain with the next lot of outlaws and let them slit that thick neck of yours, wench.”
“I will not arm you. And my name is -
“-Brienne, I know. I’ll swear an oath not to harm you, if that will ease your girlish fears.”
“Your oaths are worthless. You swore an oath to Aerys.”
“You haven’t cooked anyone in their armor so far as I know. And we both want me safe and whole in King’s Landing, don’t we?” He squatted beside Cleos and began to undo his swordbelt.
“Step away from him. Now. Stop that.”

Jaime was tired. Tired of her suspicions, tired of her insults, tired of her crooked teeth and her broad spotty face and that limp thin hair of hers. Ignoring her protests, he grasped the hilt of his cousin’s longsword with both hands, held the corpse down with his foot, and pulled. As the blade slid from the scabbard, he was already pivoting, bringing the sword around and up in a swift deadly arc. Steel met steel with a ringing, bone-jarring clang. Somehow Brienne had gotten her own blade out in time. Jaime laughed. “Very good, wench.”

“Give me the sword, Kingslayer.”

“Oh, I will.” He sprang to his feet and drove at her, the longsword alive in his hands. Brienne jumped back, parrying, but he followed, pressing the attack. No sooner did she turn one cut than the next was upon her. The swords kissed and sprang apart and kissed again. Jaime’s blood was singing. This was what he was meant for; he never felt so alive as when he was fighting, with death balanced on every stroke. And with my wrists chained together, the wench may even give me a contest for a time. His chains forced him to use a two-handed grip, though of course the weight and reach were less than if the blade had been a true two-handed greatsword, but what did it matter? His cousin’s sword was long enough to write an end to this Brienne of Tarth.

High, low, overhand, he rained down steel upon her. Left, right, backslash, swinging so hard that sparks flew when the swords came together, upswing, sideslash, overhand, always attacking, moving into her, step and slide, strike and step, step and strike, hacking, slashing, faster, faster, faster…

…until, breathless, he stepped back and let the point of the sword fall to the ground, giving her a moment of respite.
“Not half bad,” he acknowledged. “For a wench.”

She took a slow deep breath, her eyes watching him warily.

“I would not hurt you, Kingslayer.”
“As if you could.” He whirled the blade back up above his head and flew at her again, chains rattling.

Jaime could not have said how long he pressed the attack. it might have been minutes or it might have been hours; time slept when swords woke. He drove her away from his cousin’s corpse, drove her across the road, drove her into the trees. She stumbled once on a root she never saw, and for a moment he thought she was done, but she went to one knee instead of falling, and never lost a beat. Her sword leapt up to block a downcut that would have opened her from shoulder to groin, and then she cut at him, again and again, fighting her way back to her feet stroke by stroke.

The dance went on. He pinned her against an oak, cursed as she slipped away, followed her through a shallow brook half-choked with fallen leaves. Steel rang, steel sang, steel screamed and sparked and scraped, and the woman started grunting like a sow at every crash, yet somehow he could not reach her. It was as if she had an iron cage around her that stopped every blow.

“Not bad at all,” he said when he paused for a second to catch his breath, circling to her right.

“For a wench?”
“For a squire, say. A green one.” He laughed a ragged, breathless laugh.

“Come on, come on, my sweetling, the music’s still playing. Might I have this dance, my lady?”

Grunting, she came at him, blade whirling, and suddenly it was Jaime struggling to keep steel from skin. One of her slashes raked across his brow, and blood ran down into his right eye. The Others take her, and Riverrun as well! His skills had gone to rust and rot in that bloody dungeon, and the chains were no great help either. His eye closed, his shoulders were going numb from the jarring they’d taken, and his wrists ached from the weight of chains, manacles, and sword. His longsword grew heavier with every blow, and Jaime knew he was not swinging it as quickly as he’d done earlier, nor raising it as high.

She is stronger than I am.
The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him, to be sure. The White Bull Gerold Hightower as well, in his heyday, and Ser Arthur Dayne. Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all. But this was a woman. A huge cow of a woman, to be sure, but even so…by rights, she should be the one wearing down.

Instead she forced him back into the brook again, shouting, “Yield! Throw down the sword!”

A slick stone turned under Jaime’s foot. As he felt himself falling, he twisted the mischance into a diving lunge. His point scraped past her parry and bit into her upper thigh. A red flower blossomed, and Jaime had an instant to savor the sight of her blood before his knee slammed into a rock. The pain was blinding. Brienne splashed into him and kicked away his sword. “YIELD!”

Jaime drove his shoulder into her legs, bringing her down on top of him. They rolled, kicking and punching until finally she was sitting astride him. He managed to jerk her dagger from its sheath, but before he could plunge it into her belly she caught his wrist and slammed his hands back on a rock so hard he thought she’d wrenched an arm from its socket. Her other hand spread across his face. “Yield!” She shoved his head down, held it under, pulled it up. “Yield!” Jaime spit water into her face. A shove, a splash, and he was under again, kicking uselessly, fighting to breathe. Up again. “Yield, or I’ll drown you!”

So the fight was all about his hands being manacled and him being weakened from a prisoner. I had thought the brook played a part, in my mind I remembered the fight being fought in knee-deep water, but I guess the picture I had in my head was warped over the years.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Esau of Isaac

[Phoenix Wright]

it's true, he was weakened from being a prisoner, but i do love how conceited he is with not mentioning those excuses until he starts losing.

[Aizenberg]

no greyjoys.......that is all

[Loki Laufeyson]

no greyjoys.......that is all

lololololol assuming the comic-con feature of new cast members is of everyone new showing up next season. Heres a list of the people that havent been announced yet which im pretty sure are gonna show up next season:

[spoiler=characters in the story from this point onward. May have da spoilas]

we got three Sand Snakes, Doran, a recast Myrcella, Trystane, Areo (yuss), High Sparrow, and the Yellow Whale.

Arianne hasnt been announced yet. Shes a major character, so cutting her would be a real dumb move.

Darkstar. Not sure if he will even be a thing. But i fail to see why HBO would pass up an opportunity to put someone like that in the show. Come on, scenery wont gnaw on itself!

Two very major characters that appear in Tyrion's story arc. Without getting too spoilery, the Griffs. While not major in terms of screen time, they are HUGE to the plot. So im pretty sure they are getting in. Given how the show loves Tyrion, yeah....

Quentyn also hasnt been announced.

Victarion and Euron are left hanging. I kinda doubt Vic is getting cut...

Kindly Man and the Waif havent been announced yet either. We all know we will see those two. And possibly a bunch of Braavosi minor characters.

Green Grace hasnt been announced. hell, theres a lot of people missing from Dany's arc. Wtf is my Shavepate?

Also Lady Stoneheart hasnt happened yet...

Theres probably a couple of others i just cant think of right now...

I wouldnt throw a fit about the Greyjoys or the way the season (4) ends until we get more info about next season.