Malaysian Plane Shot Down

[Eail]

If it wasn't known that the plane was being escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets before arriving at the location it was shot down, AND that this information has been wiped clean from the net from any credible news source, I might be willing to believe it was just separatists that were behind this.

Something fishy is going on here, and I don't like it

[Rewjeo]

If it wasn't known that the plane was being escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets before arriving at the location it was shot down, AND that this information has been wiped clean from the net from any credible news source, I might be willing to believe it was just separatists that were behind this.

Proof?

We now have official confirmation that the plane was definitely shot down (as opposed to exploding midair some other way) and the American government, while not stating for sure either way, has made it clear that the rebels are the most likely candidates, along with open claims that Russia has been giving the rebels the necessary supplies and training to carry out this attack. Multiple nations are calling for international investigations, and some have already started dispatching their own. Meanwhile, Russia and the west are pointing fingers at each other and saying "It's your fault for egging Ukraine/Donetsk on in this conflict!" (They're both kinda right, but, y'know, whatever)

[euklyd]

Proof?

Weren't you listening? All the proof has been wiped from the net in some vast conspiracy.

this information has been wiped clean from the net from any credible news source

at this point, it's almost as though the proof never existed in the first place #illuminati2k14

I for one am perfectly willing to believe the unsubstantiated claim of a stranger on the internet that all credible news sources are engaged in a vast conspiracy to delete !!the facts!! before anyone ever saw them in the first place.

Meanwhile, Russia and the west are pointing fingers at each other and saying "It's your fault for egging Ukraine/Donetsk on in this conflict!" (They're both kinda right, but, y'know, whatever)

What was the Ukraine gov't supposed to be doing in this situation? (or do you mean the initial protests?)

[blah the Prussian]

Personally speaking I think this'll just be another piece building towards WW III. I figure it's all but inevitable at this point. History will look back and compare this to the reseizure of Hungary by the nazis. Least that's the way I see it. Yeah appeasement. So effective.

The Nazis didn't seize Hungary. It was a minor axis nation. I think you mean Austria.

[Magical CC]

1. There were two deleted tweets from the pro-Russian rebel leadership. One showed them in possession of a surface-to-air missile system capable of bringing down a plane at the altitude and speed that the Malaysian plane was at. The other was bragging about taking down a Ukrainian supply plane... at the same time that it was known at the Malaysian plane was downed. There was no evidence of any Ukrainian aircraft taken down at that time period either.

This. The only reason I can think off why someone could want to shoot a civilain airplane is.....they shot them by mistake. May be someone in the rebel was to happy trigger and thought it was an Ukraine army airplane. But how can someone make such a mistake....a bunch of amateurs! Like the rebel.

Saying that Ukraine was targeting Putin's plane is stupid. What would Ukraine get from killing Putin? This is not some medieval politic. Not to mention, Putin dies right in Ukraine's territory only brings more chaos and may push the Russia to directly invade Ukraine.

Weren't you listening? All the proof has been wiped from the net in some vast conspiracy.

While it's true that there were two deleted tweets from the rebel's leader. There's nothing about your conspiracy. Just saying that all of the proofs have been deleted will not fool anyone. The world is not stupid. If there were something, they will dig it up.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Char

[Zeithri]

I read about this a few days ago.

I rarely read news because they can leave me angry, depressed or melancholic about things. But this thing I read up on.

It angered me greatly - especially when it turns out it was some ex-military douche who brags about it because they thought it was a military plane.

Yeah, they'll be going for his head. Everyone. He's screwed, he's sooo screwed. I'm expecting Russia to just lift their hands up and say "Whoa dudes, he's all yours!" while all other countries will go in there with pitchforks to nail him to the freaking wall with.

As it should be if you ask me..

Anyone who attacks civilians, be it kings or military, they should be nailed to the wall as punishment in the most painful ways as possible.

This was the most depressing and upsetting thing I've read in a long time.

So unnecessary.

[SgtSombrero]

Been reading news and trying to figure out what happened since December, when things between Ukraine and Russia started; I also have an Ukrainian friend who's really sensitive about the conflict.

The rebels shot the plane, 75% sure. Why should they have shot it then?
On one hand, we could say that some guy was mistaked by the shape of the plane and hit the button. Wich, pretty much, to me sounds strange: usually - even if an army is composed by farmers - they don't give farmers or fanatics weapons they can't use\are too cocky to use.
So, it's really strange. Rebels and Russia are trying to maintain a low profile, so why shooting a civil plane?

I'd say propaganda. Firstly, to confuse more people, for they will have more to argue about on a hypotetic peace table; secondly, who's dealing with the dead corpses?
The rebels.

Dealing themselves -not the ukrainian sovereignity, beware- is something really crucial.
Think about it; a plane has fallen in rebels' territory, and they are dealing with it. This means that they now are behaving like an actual country, not anymore your usual bunch of terrorists or whatsoever.

I'm not saying that they shot the plane for propaganda, but they may have done so.
Or simply they grasped the opportunity.

[Magical CC]

One of the rebel leaders admitted that they do have buk missile system and blame Ukraine for trying to trick the rebel to shoot the poor civilian plane. He said that there were many other military bombers around at that moment and the rebel mistook the Malaysian airplane for one of them. Good job, the rebel, good job. You managed to hit the only plane you shouldnt hit.

Although, some moments later, Russia denied everything the rebel leader said. But honestly, Russia. You should control your lap dog better.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Char

[euklyd]

While it's true that there were two deleted tweets from the rebel's leader. There's nothing about your conspiracy. Just saying that all of the proofs have been deleted will not fool anyone. The world is not stupid. If there were something, they will dig it up.

We have confirmation! The enemy's sarcasm detectors are offline! Going for the kill!

*cough*

You clearly underestimate the combined power of the illuminati, the black helicopters, and the fluoride-industrial complex.

With Google on their side, their control over all the world's information knows no bounds!

realtalk: honestly I don't think that there's any, like, ~malicious intent~ behind the shooting down of a civilian plane; neither side gains anything from shooting down such a plane, so it was probably the mistake of an over-zealous commander.

[spoiler=the above was written in response to]

Been reading news and trying to figure out what happened since December, when things between Ukraine and Russia started; I also have an Ukrainian friend who's really sensitive about the conflict.

The rebels shot the plane, 75% sure. Why should they have shot it then?

On one hand, we could say that some guy was mistaked by the shape of the plane and hit the button. Wich, pretty much, to me sounds strange: usually - even if an army is composed by farmers - they don't give farmers or fanatics weapons they can't use\are too cocky to use.

So, it's really strange. Rebels and Russia are trying to maintain a low profile, so why shooting a civil plane?

I'd say propaganda. Firstly, to confuse more people, for they will have more to argue about on a hypotetic peace table; secondly, who's dealing with the dead corpses?

The rebels.

Dealing themselves -not the ukrainian sovereignity, beware- is something really crucial.

Think about it; a plane has fallen in rebels' territory, and they are dealing with it. This means that they now are behaving like an actual country, not anymore your usual bunch of terrorists or whatsoever.

I'm not saying that they shot the plane for propaganda, but they may have done so.

Or simply they grasped the opportunity.

But applies to other people's posts as well.

I do wonder what interesting things might be expected to be found in the black boxes the rebels recently handed over after, y'know, blocking the access of investigators to the plane.