Are 4 Fire Emblem characters in SSB4 too much?

[Jave]

You do realize that removing Lucina from the roster won't add another character to it, right?

[PuffPuff]

You do realize that removing Lucina from the roster won't add another character to it, right?

Why not?

[HK Motendra]

Simply put, at the moment in time of newcomer selection, there were really only 3 candidates for Fire Emblem (4, if you count Roy, but that's a whole other tangent). Out of those 3, only 2 actually got in fully. If you were to remove Lucina then who else would there be? No one. Ergo Jave's point.

Correct me if this wasn't where you were going at

[Jave]

That, and the roster has already been decided. It's way too late to add a new character from scratch at this point. Removing ANYONE from the roster now is an action without benefits.

[Anacybele]

I think Bimbo means in a future Smash, Lucina would likely be cut, especially if a new, more unique and iconic female FE protagonist comes along. And I agree with this.

[PuffPuff]

Simply put, at the moment in time of newcomer selection, there were really only 3 candidates for Fire Emblem (4, if you count Roy, but that's a whole other tangent). Out of those 3, only 2 actually got in fully. If you were to remove Lucina then who else would there be? No one. Ergo Jave's point.

Correct me if this wasn't where you were going at

No.

*Sigh*

I was saying that she should be dropped for somebody else. Ness, Jigglypuff, Metaknight, or Snake. ...And exactly. We don't need 4 FE reps. Period. Marth, Ike, and Robin are all that we need.

[Anacybele]

I agree that the roster doesn't need Lucina. And that FE shouldn't have more than one rep from the same game due to just how many games and main protagonists are out there in the series. I'd have used Ephraim instead if Sakurai really wanted a fourth rep.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Anacybele

[Jave]

And again, removing Lucina AT THIS POINT IN DEVELOPMENT won't add another character to the roster. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest this can happen.

@Ana: Bimbo is clearly talking about this game. She makes no mention of future games in the Smash series (where I would agree Lucina is very likely to be cut).

[Florete]

No.

*Sigh*

I was saying that she should be dropped for somebody else. Ness, Jigglypuff, Metaknight, or Snake. ...And exactly. We don't need 4 FE reps. Period. Marth, Ike, and Robin are all that we need.

The idea that Lucina is replacing Ness, Jigglypuff, Meta Knight, Snake, or any veteran is an absolutely stupid one. Please get a grip on reality.

I agree that the roster doesn't need Lucina. And that FE shouldn't have more than one rep from the same game due to just how many games and main protagonists are out there in the series. I'd have used Ephraim instead if Sakurai really wanted a fourth rep.

If Lucina didn't have that slot, no one would (at the very least, no Fire Emblem character would). It's pretty easy to see this based on the information we've been given.

[PuffPuff]

I agree that the roster doesn't need Lucina. And that FE shouldn't have more than one rep from the same game due to just how many games and main protagonists are out there in the series. I'd have used Ephraim instead if Sakurai really wanted a fourth rep.

...Or Alm. Make him use axes.

And again, removing Lucina AT THIS POINT IN DEVELOPMENT won't add another character to the roster. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest this can happen.

@Ana: Bimbo is clearly talking about this game. She makes no mention of future games in the Smash series (where I would agree Lucina is very likely to be cut).

That would be a problem. Well...can't they make her different? Because were getting a mountain of complaints about her.

@RedFoxOfFire

Oh my...

rofl

My bad.

Oops. Sowwy. Double post. x.x

Edited July 21, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[Jave]

Smash 3DS is coming out in two months in Japan. This is the post-production period. Fix minor tweaks and check for bugs, but way too late to remove and add different characters.

Unless of course, you want the game to be delayed.

[kingddd]

That would be a problem. Well...can't they make her different? Because were getting a mountain of complaints about her.

Animation is one of the biggest resource intensive part of creating and developing a character in a fighting game. There is a reason why most of the characters brought back from Melee to Brawl had the same animation because they didn't need to reanimate everything. They just tweaked it slightly to make it fit with the current status of the character. Same thing can be applied here with Lucina. They just took the animation of Marth, tweaked it fit with Lucina's models and rigging and slight status changes.

You have to remember what they need to animate in this game. They need to animate each item a character holds and uses an item like the Super Scope, how they hang on a cliff, getting hit, flying in the air, attacking, defending, idling and facial expressions.

You might think making a character is easy in fact it's not. You have to consider the voice, the character model, the animation, proper body riggings, textures and a significant amount of testing to make sure each character works correctly in game. Not to mention the amount of balance that needs to be examined for each different unique movesets. Adding to the fact that we now have custom movesets just adds a significant multiple of complexity to the characters being created.

Edited July 21, 2014 by kingddd

[PuffPuff]

Animation is one of the biggest resource intensive part of creating and developing a character in a fighting game. There is a reason why most of the characters brought back from Melee to Brawl had the same animation because they didn't need to reanimate everything. They just tweaked it slightly to make it fit with the current status of the character. Same thing can be applied here with Lucina. They just took the animation of Marth, tweaked it fit with Lucina's models and rigging and slight status changes.

You have to remember what they need to animate in this game. They need to animate each item a character holds and uses an item like the Super Scope, how they hang on a cliff, getting hit, flying in the air, attacking, defending, idling and facial expressions.

You might think making a character is easy in fact it's not. You have to consider the voice, the character model, the animation, proper body riggings, textures and a significant amount of testing to make sure each character works correctly in game. Not to mention the amount of balance that needs to be examined for each different unique movesets. Adding to the fact that we now have custom movesets just adds a significant multiple of complexity to the characters being created.

Not to mention that is why that we have product testers as well as the Supervisor, Programmers, Programming support, Graphic Designing, Graphic Support, Artworking/Writing, and the localization team. Since this is getting developed in Japan. It is never easy to create someone out of transmogrification out of zero's and ones. Chrom was dropped, but his development only lead to him being a final smash for Robin. He was so well developed, because Sakurai planned to have him in at one point. Nobody can make these masterpieces alone.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Bimbo

[Raven]

Not to mention that is why that we have product testers as well as the Supervisor, Programmers, Programming support, Graphic Designing, Graphic Support, Artworking/Writing, and the localization team. Since this is getting developed in Japan. It is never easy to create someone out of transmogrification out of zero's and ones. Chrom was dropped, but his development only lead to him being a final smash for Robin. He was so well developed, because Sakurai planned to have him in at one point. Nobody can make these masterpieces alone.

Where is the proof to say Chrom was actually in development? I haven't read anything on this, except that Sakurai was deciding between Chrom and Robin.

[HK Motendra]

He wasn't. Strongly considered, but it never happened

[Florete]

He wasn't. Strongly considered, but it never happened

Not even "strongly." He was considered ("naturally"), but Sakurai thought he was too similar to Ike and Marth.

[PuffPuff]

Not even "strongly." He was considered ("naturally"), but Sakurai thought he was too similar to Ike and Marth.

You hit the nail on the head.

...Or else they wouldn't bother to have Chrom in Robin's Final Smash as they did so with his unfinished coding.

[shadowofchaos]

Smash 3DS is coming out in two months in Japan. This is the post-production period. Fix minor tweaks and check for bugs, but way too late to remove and add different characters.

Unless of course, you want the game to be delayed.

To add onto this, the roster is FINAL at this point.

Games at the very least have to be absolutely finished an entire month before release due to the horrendous amount of crap they have to go through. And that's being GENEROUS.

[amadeuscho]

Lucina's probably took very little development time, so she didn't really beat anyone out. According to the Sakurai Famitsu interview, she's basically an alternate costume that got lucky and got an upgrade.

"Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes.

After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.
However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!"

http://smashboards.com/threads/translated-sakurai-famitsu-interview.361454/

[Shin]

You hit the nail on the head.

...Or else they wouldn't bother to have Chrom in Robin's Final Smash as they did so with his unfinished coding.

That's a massive assumption, just because Chrom appears in the game doesn't mean that any prior work on him was done for a character slot. It's like saying Waluigi might have been a character at some point in development because he had a model to use.

[solrocknroll]

This is like arguing with a wall. it isn't worth it.

[BANRYU]

I'm starting to think Bimbo is just the most brilliant and subtly manipulative troll SFF has ever seen. NO one can possibly ignore logic, reason, and common sense this earnestly.

[Esaka]

Yes, but Lucina takes 1/6th the effort as other characters tops. Adding her in to make the roster larger feeling is fine.

But 4 unique characters?

Hahhah NO

[Florete]

You know, I think a better question would be, "Is 4 Fire Emblem characters in SSB4 enough?"

And the answer is "no."

[Baron the Shining Blade]

I can't believe there are arguments over something as trivial as series representation. In my eyes, a series can't be "overrepresented" unless their playable characters exceed that of all the other playable series in the game by a long shot, which none of them do. Oh sure, there's been tons of pokeballs and assist trophies, but playable characters are the focus here.

We've got four Fire Emblem characters now. I'm extremely happy seeing Lucina and Robin in the game. I don't see why FE having 4 reps makes any difference. Oh, Lucina's a clone? I couldn't care less. It's another Fire Emblem rep, I'm happy. Heck, they could have more reps, go right ahead. I'm an Embemier. Aren't you guys Emblemiers, too? I would've expected nothing but praise and excitement from most if not all of you, not petty arguments about one of your favorite series being "overrepresented." I can understand not liking the fact that Lucina is a clone, but then I hear arguments about the likelihood of certain characters getting in or not getting in, being "replaced," cut, or "(not) deserving of a 'slot'."

...Seriously, guys? There is no such thing as character slots (nevermind the fact that Sakurai himself has used the word "slot" in a Miiverse post. Just hear me out for a moment). You don't replace a character for another one. The roster is decided from the get-go. And we don't even yet know how many "slots" there are, so how can anyone say a character is replaced? Now, I know characters can get cut or added late in development, but that's not a matter of them "deserving" a spot or not. It's simply a decision that Sakurai made. How do you know veterans like Ness, Jigglypuff, Roy, Mewtwo, or whoever haven't returned? We'll never know what goes through Sakurai's mind as he makes these games, and we shouldn't try to act as though we do. We'll never know the whole roster 100% set in stone until the game releases. So, just wait for the dang blasted game to be released, ok? You can argue to your heart's content afterwards. I'll be enjoying myself in my indulgence of SSB4 3DS all the while.

If you wanted a (good-hearted) opinion about any possible returning veterans, I think Roy and Mewtwo could be returning, as they are two of the Forbidden 7 which were planned for Brawl, but were ultimately cut. Who's to say Sakurai didn't decide to actually bring them back this time around? Only time will tell. I'm excited with just the current announced roster so far, but come release day, it'll be a blast no matter what happens.

As I said before, be grateful that Sakurai posts pics and info for us on Miiverse every weekday. Just enjoy the ride.