When do the Lords suck?

[Psych]

So I was making this post about how i thought Oifaye was more useful than Cuan, and it got me thinking about Sigurd and why people like him so much, and it's because he never really has a 'bad' point. So that made me want to try and go through everyone's. Also most of these are my opinion, since I know Celice honestly isn't that bad but I can't really pin down a point for him and I want one for everyone. This is kind of 'when are they worst' for some. Most of these assume a normal game, and not low turns or warp runs.

FE 1/11 Marth: Mid to Late Game

No promotion really hurts him, and he just seems to lack damage mid game when chapters move away from heavy cavalry. Sure there are more armors, but besides that he really lacks damage till the Falchion and it just feels like an "Escort the Lord to the Throne" game.

Alm: Very Early Game, Mid Game

I was kind of surprised going through this, I've honestly never really had a "Man Alm really sucks right now" point. The first 3-4 battles might be tough considering you want to feed EXP to the villagers to let them promote when you get Silk so Alm might be under performing do to lack of resources, but he's not that bad at all considering he gets Bows in Fire Emblem: OP 5 Range. He does seem to kind of fade into the background around Chapter 3 but that just might be me favoring more units over him.

Celica: Mid to Late Game

She's a squishy mage who uses HP to cast and likely will promote before Ragnarok so that gets pushed back quite a way. She ends up having to compete with high move Pegasus Knights and her durability just becomes more apparent towards then end of the desert and on to Chapter 4.

FE 3/12 Marth: Mid to Late Game

I'll be honest, I have played FE3, but not 12, so this could be wrong for that game like with a Rainbow Potion and the arena, but then there's reclassing so I don't know. Again, lack of promotion really hurts him, and he just feels mediocre by the time you start having really strong mages and flyers and can move around so quickly.

Sigurd: Mid Game

Sigurd doesn't really ever have a bad point, but I'd call Chapter 4 his worst, as it's heavy forests and mountains slowing him down, having to wait for Dew to unlock the bridge, lots of lance using Pegasus Knights, and not having the Tyrfing yet.

Celice: Early Game

This one is probably purely my fault, but I don't really like piling everything onto Celice for inheritance. Because of this and my penchant for things like Brave Lance Fee, Holsety Arthur, and actually trying to use my foot soldiers, he kind of ends up falling by the wayside in Chapter 6. I think my latest playthrough he was like level 4, and that kind of hurt him going in to Chapter 7 compared to most everyone else's like level 9. Other people usually have more success and he never really has a bad point, but no horse compared to Sigurd does kind of hurt.

Leaf: Mid to Late Game

Leaf is actually really good early. He's hitting for magic damage from 2 range when you only have inaccurate axes or shitty archers and enemy resistance is low, and then he carries a lot of weight in the Manster escape. He never suffers fatigue, but his low Magic makes him susceptible to status effects and his lower movement hurts as well. Late promotion hurts too and he hardly gets anything out of it, so around the route split towards the end of it he ends up becoming a burden really.

Roy: Late Game

Late promotion just really kills a lot of guys and Roy is one of them. He's okay early and mid thanks to heavy axe presence from the enemy, and his Rapier helps considering all the cavalry, but he always has low move in very large maps, and his combat just starts to falter thanks to a low speed cap and low con.

Lyn: Mid Game

Lyn isn't that bad if we consider Lyn mode her Early game. It's got lots of axes, and Mani Katti helps against the potential cavalry and armor lances. She does falter in the main game till her avoid comes up to par, and I suppose if you neglect her then her late game could too. I typically throw her the first seal, and she really gets nice, but most of the FE7 lords honestly just fade into the background due to favoring other units more.

Eliwood: All Game Mid to Late Game

Eliwood is bad and you should feel bad. Eliwood kind of ends up like a crappy Roy and lacks con to wield lances in my opinion. It doesn't really matter what mode you play, he's basically a shitty myrmidon, and honestly there are so many sword units in this game that have better combat from the get-go, more move, you name it. I really have to make a conscious effort to use him or arena abuse him for Geitz's chapter.

Hector: Late Game

Hector's a lot like Leaf, but with minor accuracy issues early game. And I guess that hitting resistance thing. His speed and no movement on promotion becomes an issue late game so he can kind of fall behind, and since you don't really get a lot of Tomahawks, his range starts to falter considering your mages get better and resistance is lower in this game then some. Not bad, but he's basically a general and I don't really like knights personally. If I had to pick his worst chapter it'd be Battle before Dawn, as his promotion is starting to push it, but he's okay on NoF, though I don't really remember if that's me just leaving him before thanks to disappearing tiles.

Eirika: Mid to Late Game

While Eirika is okay, it's more monsters suck ass so it's up to opinion. I do start to get damage issues with her around after Chapter 16, but the fact she's basically a mounted swordmaster is nice I guess. I usually go her route which makes her shine a bit more, but monsters are honestly so weak to magic she can take a backseat.

Ephraim: Early to Mid Game

While I do go Eirika route more and his absence for basically two-thirds of the game sucks, on his route he just seems mediocre. Like it's not like there's a ton of units for the Reginleif, and he can't really do much on stuff like Chapters 9 (long hall way to shuffle everyone down), 11 (cramped boat), or 13 (spiral marsh yeah thanks). His ability to have good 1-2 is nice over Eirika though and he doesn't get strength issues like her later on thanks to his higher con.

FE 9 Ike: Early to Mid Game

He has to compete with Shinon and Titania early and I usually just like to rush through to get to Base Operations, so he feels lackluster early on. Once you do get around Chapter 8 though he starts holding his own considering that's when I like to start weening off of Titania and he feels like he can do a lot more compared to Oscar and Boyd. Mia doesn't really feel great in 8 or 9 so meh and the mages actually kind of suck but I have favoritism so...he gets good once you start getting to Beignon though.

Micaiah: Mid to Late Game

Part 1 is basically pretty nice considering she's for all intents and purposes one of two mages you'll have (no one but me promotes Laura basically and ew Tormod). She can staff bot in Part 3 some, but suddenly popping up in Part 4 with absolute horrid speed (though that might just be my luck, I always have a tendency for speed cursed Micaiahs) and still in Tier 2 is really bad for her. Score another one for Late Promotion deaths.

FE 10 Ike: Early Game

Honestly it's like maybe the first two-three maps of Part 3 that really hurt him and that's only cause he seems lack luster considering they're route chapters in fog which is just annoying more than anything. Once you can buy Wind Swords on 3-2, his range weakness disappears, and he just has like 6 chapters til Ragnel.

Chrom: Mid to Late Game

I'll admit I probably grind too much in 13 for Skill Inheritance, but honestly Varm and after just feels like a Pair Up Chrom with your strongest fastest unit. He's not bad, but everyone else is better so meh.

oh yeah feel free to talk about this

Edited August 2, 2014 by Psych

[Shadow Mir]

Roy: Late Game

Late promotion just really kills a lot of guys and Roy is one of them. He's okay early and mid thanks to heavy axe presence from the enemy, and his Rapier helps considering all the cavalry, but he always has low move in very large maps, and his combat just starts to falter thanks to a low speed cap and low con.

Ehhh, I'd beg to differ, and say Roy starts sucking after the Western Isles, when the axes pretty much vanish.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[Irysa]

Roy has pretty decent lategame because of his superweapon actually. Even a 100% untrained Roy can do a ton of damage safely at 2 range because of the Binding Blade. He's miles above someone like Eliwood in that respect, who only has 2x effective weaponry, no Dragons or Wyverns to use Durandal on, and gets weighed down massively anyway.

Also Ephraim has base 1-2 range wtf, and Reginleif is a good weapon to use period, not just on cavalry/armors. He even gets a horse and has fantastic growths in a game where most of the enemies are jokes. I don't really know if Ephraim ever really sucks.

EDIT: I echo what the post below me says, I'm pretty sure Marth is considered one of the best units in FE1.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Irysa

[Samias]

FE 1/11 Marth: Mid to Late Game

No promotion really hurts him, and he just seems to lack damage mid game when chapters move away from heavy cavalry. Sure there are more armors, but besides that he really lacks damage till the Falchion and it just feels like an "Escort the Lord to the Throne" game.

Does FE1 Marth ever really suck? Not ever class here has a promotion and you only need +1 attack speed on your opponent to double them, which Marth can usually do. He has the Rapier to do more damage to the knights who are easily the most common enemy in the game. The Falchion is flat out broken. Plus you get a lot of statboosters and the caps are low and uniform.

This changes in FE11 where stats inflate and then Marth kind of struggles whereas Caeda takes his place with the Win(g) Spear + wings.

[Psych]

Roy has pretty decent lategame because of his superweapon actually. Even a 100% untrained Roy can do a ton of damage safely at 2 range because of the Binding Blade. He's miles above someone like Eliwood in that respect, who only has 2x effective weaponry, no Dragons or Wyverns to use Durandal on, and gets weighed down massively anyway.

You know, I actually forgot SoS is 2 ranged which goes to show how much I use Roy. But then at the same time you can use all the other S rank weapons so it's kind of why bother with Roy's.

I also noticed just how much I favor magic users in my ratings and honestly I should probably try using less of them on my runs.

Does FE1 Marth ever really suck? Not ever class here has a promotion and you only need +1 attack speed on your opponent to double them, which Marth can usually do. He has the Rapier to do more damage to the knights who are easily the most common enemy in the game. The Falchion is flat out broken. Plus you get a lot of statboosters and the caps are low and uniform.

This changes in FE11 where stats inflate and then Marth kind of struggles whereas Caeda takes his place with the Win(g) Spear + wings.

That's probably true, but I haven't played 1, just 11. It's funny, I've played 3 and 11 but not 1 and 12. I just included it for the sake of completion, but yeah I can't accurately rate him in FE1. FE11 Marth probably starts to feel bad after Chapter 7 but I kind of stick in there for a few more chapters before calling it quits on him.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Psych

[Shadow Mir]

Roy has pretty decent lategame because of his superweapon actually. Even a 100% untrained Roy can do a ton of damage safely at 2 range because of the Binding Blade. He's miles above someone like Eliwood in that respect, who only has 2x effective weaponry, no Dragons or Wyverns to use Durandal on, and gets weighed down massively anyway.

Well, whereas Roy happens to be in a game where effective damage is tripled, he's also stuck with a weaker rapier relative to Eli, in addition to being hit with WTD against the very enemies he'd want to use it on...

[Irysa]

Actually Eliwood's is 14 MT when effective, and Roy's is 15.

Also, Eliwood is in WTD vs most enemies he would use a rapier on as well, and WTD is worse in FE7 than it is in 6 (10 hit in 6 vs 15 in 7)

Regardless, I wouldn't argue against Roy being pretty rubbish most of the game but Eliwood is only relatively better in the main game because his game is even easier. Roy absoloutely has a lategame edge over Eliwood, his superweapon is just that good. That isn't to say he's great in late, but he can definitely contribute more than Eliwood does.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Irysa

[The Geek]

I'd say that Lyn really loses relevance in late game, since the tougher enemies make her low STR a big problem when trying to deal damage.

[RJWalker]

Using FE1 Marth and FE11 Marth intenchangeably is madness.

FE1 Marth never stops.

[deleted35362]

if they weren't mandatory they would be benchwarmers lol

you also should have mentioned in the gba games their classes all suck unless we count lilina...do we count her? idk i didn't beat fe6...anyway roy's promotion is junk all around....for eliwood his promotion is a paladin that can't use axes, hector is a general with a useless weapon instead of lances, and lyn is a swordmaster with no crit boost...but bows...but no horse like nomadic troopers =/ hector...hector is the only one who can use all the blade weapons with no penalty because fe7 likes to make the players con-hungry save for vaida(for example)...eh...i guess we could argue that lyn probably has the best growths for swordmasters and all lords get meaty promotion bonuses, but that's it. i would rather be using people like sain, bartre, and rath respectively. bartre even has pretty high defense in his own right. not as high as hector, but enough...

then in fe8 we have paladins but with only one weapon each.

[Passionfruit Cappuccino]

I dunno about your Ephraim thoughts. I always find him to be quite a useful unit, and when paired with Eirika for A Supports, he does excellent at avoiding as well as critting. And his Reginleif destroys all calvary. Seriously, it kicks ass

But i do agree when you say that its a real shame that you cant use him for two thirds of the game when going on Eirika's route

[X-Naut]

I would argue that Eliwood is at his worst in the early game, where his base stats really drag him down, bandits aren't as prevalent as in Lyn mode, and he doesn't stomp them as hard as Roy. After that it gets easier, with the enemy level curve moving at a snail's pace and Knight Lord being a great promotion (Free D Lances and can carry Hector? Yes please.)

[Ownagepuffs]

Celice roflstomps chapter 6 then becomes Sigurd on crack by chapter 7 start. Chapter 6 is axeland so I can't even say his early game sucks.

[Magical Glace]

Roy being worst late game? No way. As several have mentioned, the Binding Blade is ridiculous, due to 18 Might, not weighing him down, 2 range, amazing accuracy, 3x damage throughout Ch24 on... And his promo bonuses are quite good, iirc.

His mid game is the worst, being stuck unpromoted at a WTD most of the time.

However, I consider him best early due to the numerous axes being easily beaten by him due to WTA and LolFE6Axes.

[TheMoniker]

I'm making a blanket statement here, not talking about individual lords: A lord sucks when they aren't contributing to the battle positively anymore. When the rest of the army is forced into carting them around, because they have to be fed kills to get stronger, or they're stuck at normal level 20 while everyone else is promoted and are thus much weaker. If all they're doing for chapters and chapters is just lagging slightly behind the rest of the army, never fighting, or riding on the back of a horseman, then it's safe to say the lord sucks.

[Nicolas]

Leaf: Mid to Late Game

Leaf is actually really good early. He's hitting for magic damage from 2 range when you only have inaccurate axes or shitty archers and enemy resistance is low, and then he carries a lot of weight in the Manster escape. He never suffers fatigue, but his low Magic makes him susceptible to status effects and his lower movement hurts as well. Late promotion hurts too and he hardly gets anything out of it, so around the route split towards the end of it he ends up becoming a burden really.

Bold 1: In fe5 there are:

• Scrolls
• Fire Swords
• M up staffs
• M up Elixir

Also IIRC enemy has status staffs commonly only in lategame, when you have 86931734 A rank staffers with silence, sleep and berserk. You can completely avoid this problem.

Bold 2: Leif average gets 1 movement level up and has high chance for second. Don't forget he is best candidate for boost ( IMO only other reasonable is any filler, because with +2 mov fillers can easily kill ballist before ballist touch them).

Bold 3: FE 5 lategame is basically: WARP! And Leif is this guy, who gets warped. IDK how he can be burden. Especially with all those crazy swords like Master Sword, Brave Sword, King Sword and Magic Swords.

I also disagree he is bad in midgame. He probably get both shield and life ring early, what mean he has epic durability. He don't get fatigue, so he can take every hit and battle. Because that he gets some EXP, and his growth aren't bad, even without scrolls. I admit he as some bad time right before ch16, but you have unit with epic durablity, quite good offense, 8 move INDOOR and only some problems with range 1-2 weapons. Leif is IMO one of most amazing lord in this series. IMO only Sigurd and Sigurd jr. are over him.

[CT075]

unless you literally completely shaft celice (aka don't pass down the silver sword) his earlygame is still pretty sick

i mean like

he gets sigurd's magical murderstick, so he's kills everything already; what he loses in not having a horse is made up for with getting the silver sword with 50+ kills at base

[RJWalker]

I don't think Status staff users will even target Leif. I've never seen them do it at least. Possibly because you can't cure statuses without Restore. Imagine if a player didn't have that staff and Leif was put to sleep. GG.

[Shadow Mir]

Actually Eliwood's is 14 MT when effective, and Roy's is 15.

Also, Eliwood is in WTD vs most enemies he would use a rapier on as well, and WTD is worse in FE7 than it is in 6 (10 hit in 6 vs 15 in 7)

Regardless, I wouldn't argue against Roy being pretty rubbish most of the game but Eliwood is only relatively better in the main game because his game is even easier. Roy absoloutely has a lategame edge over Eliwood, his superweapon is just that good. That isn't to say he's great in late, but he can definitely contribute more than Eliwood does.

That's true... in theory. In practice, however, as like 90% of the cavs you see are lance cavs, Roy will find himself burdened by WTD often. And just how often will Roy be facing sword cavs (AKA, pretty much the only enemies where his rapier will be good against that don't hamper him with WTD at the same time)?? I won't contest that Eli's in the same boat, though.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[Irysa]

Uh, I don't really get what the point you're trying to make anymore is. You said that Roy would be in WTD all the time using his Rapier/Eliwood's Rapier was better, I showed Roy's Rapier is stronger against what you actually want to use it against, and that even though both of them have to go up against WTD, Roy's WTD is not as bad as Eliwood's.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Irysa

[Shadow Mir]

Uh, I don't really get what the point you're trying to make anymore is. You said that Roy would be in WTD all the time using his Rapier/Eliwood's Rapier was better, I showed Roy's Rapier is stronger against what you actually want to use it against, and that even though both of them have to go up against WTD, Roy's WTD is not as bad as Eliwood's.

Except it's by a measly one point, for one, and second, the enemies you'd actually want to use it against are pretty rare, so this advantage might as well not even exist. That's what I'm trying to say. I don't remember seeing much in the way of sword cavs after chapter 7... do you?

[Irysa]

Uh, you lose 1 point of MT in FE7 for WTD as well. It readjusts to 14/13, Roy's is still better via hitrates AND damage. Being at disadv doesn't negate the fact that is basically as strong as a silver lance, and that matters a lot early game. Are you really saying you'll pass up using the Rapier just beacuse he's at WTD?

I'm not trying to say LOL ROY RAPIER TEH BEST WEAPON, but the fact is, Roy gets more out of his than Eliwood's, because of the enemy composition in his games and the fact his Rapier is just plain better.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Irysa

[PKL]

Wouldn't both Rapiers be 12 after WTF? Since it lowers the MT of the weapon itself before effective coefficient, Roy's Rapier would be 4 after WTD and 12 after effective. Eliwood's would be 6 after WTD and 12 after effective.

[Shadow Mir]

Uh, you lose 1 point of MT in FE7 for WTD as well. It readjusts to 14/13, Roy's is still better via hitrates AND damage. Being at disadv doesn't negate the fact that is basically as strong as a silver lance, and that matters a lot early game. Are you really saying you'll pass up using the Rapier just beacuse he's at WTD?

I'm not trying to say LOL ROY RAPIER TEH BEST WEAPON, but the fact is, Roy gets more out of his than Eliwood's, because of the enemy composition in his games and the fact his Rapier is just plain better.

Spoken like someone who doesn't realize that effective Mt is calculated AFTER WTD. In other words, in both Roy and Eli's cases, their respective rapiers both turn out to 12 effective mt a majority of the time. And hitrate wise, I'd say it mostly evens out given that FE7 enemies aren't exactly kings of evasion.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Levant Caprice

[PKL]

I have to agree with Irysa that Roy's Rapier is better though. But Roy himself and Eliwood are pretty bad. I guess Sword of Seals does make Roy's lategame pretty good. Eliwood can carry Hector promoted which is useful in drafts but he's mediocre through and through even with his horse. In HHM, he can have a nice C24 to Endgame though.

EDIT: HHM NOT EHM

Edited August 2, 2014 by PKgone