Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 4 - Game Over

[Percivalé]

but that's the fun part

[Percivalé]

kinda playing with the idea that psych is mafia who made us think there's a cult when there's not to distract us, only because we haven't seen any cult flips yet which bugs me??

and the possible SK kill bugs me too, why would there be a cult and sk

[Shinori]

WELL FINE FOR NOW I WONT BLOCK YOU LEVY GAWD.

Srs stuff though:

Refa, if I was lying then Carpet monster would have said he got blocked for two nights in a row so it couldn't have been me.

Believe me if I blocked someone you would know it cause I BLOCK SO MUCH.

[Refa]

.Refa has pretty poor assosiation with scum, scumreading eclipse until her lynch didn't seem likely then suddenly "whoa BBM's case on Elie is actually pretty good everyone should vote him" with <7 hours into the phase. Then he completely 180s on his eclipse read based on Elie interactions when said interactions were pretty weak (which he himself pointed out when he criticised eclipse's vote). Also his ISO of Mitsuki feels really inconclusive and isn't well explained (why was her Marth read bad?) and outside of these guys the only stuff I can remember is his criticisms against SB which I know is wrong and he's also pretty all over the place with today (scum-->town-->null). Am pretty happy to lynch here tomorrow.

I don't really get your issues with me. BBM said I should read up his ISO, so I did and changed my mind. Like seriously now. I'm not going to keep the same opinions throughout the day just so that I look better. I don't disagree with you saying that my ISO of Mitsuki was inconclusive because I didn't know what to think of her. Also you're conveniently ignoring my interactions with eclipse's slot, who I was the only one who had issues with for the majority of D1. ;/ Don't get what your issues with my reads here.

[Refa]

kinda playing with the idea that psych is mafia who made us think there's a cult when there's not to distract us, only because we haven't seen any cult flips yet which bugs me??

and the possible SK kill bugs me too, why would there be a cult and sk

I can see that, actually. LIke if there's a cult I could see the second shot being a vig, but both of the targets were obvious town so I don't see why anyone would vig them...

[Percivalé]

only because psych has done nothing of note/nothing townie since then, keeps flopping around with his reads, and apparently can't keep his role straight.

although what happened to me (August) in SF3 mafia is why I give people the benefit of the doubt about this now ;-;

[Percivalé]

WELL FINE FOR NOW I WONT BLOCK YOU LEVY GAWD.

ilu shinori

also our friendly neighbor carpet monster already explained it was a forgotten action and not a roleblock & pblade was waiting for actions at the end of the night so I don't think shinori is lying.

[Psych]

i'm keeping my role straight, i'm just paranoid about it and don't know whether it's true

my role is that i'm unrecruitable

it's my knowledge of a cult that's making me paranoid

[Percivalé]

can you claim your character

[FrostyFireMage]

I was going to target eclipse last night and thought I did but I guess my brain skipped a beat.

[Refa]

He claimed eclipse earlier.

[Zkirsche]

lol Via, I'm sure you won't be hooked tonight after all this. I didn't realise what Shinori's role was entirely.

I don't really get your issues with me. BBM said I should read up his ISO, so I did and changed my mind. Like seriously now. I'm not going to keep the same opinions throughout the day just so that I look better. I don't disagree with you saying that my ISO of Mitsuki was inconclusive because I didn't know what to think of her. Also you're conveniently ignoring my interactions with eclipse's slot, who I was the only one who had issues with for the majority of D1. ;/ Don't get what your issues with my reads here.

I'm questioning the timing though, it's like you went into this game bussing eclipse and then when an Elie lynch is likely you jumped aboard and really pushed it, going as far as to quote your case again. It just feels very unnatural for someone who had called him town not long before that. I recognise that you suspected eclipse for a while, but that's neutral to me as I can see you bussing her. Dropping her like you did wasn't very well-thought at all, and bussing her then in a maf's position could be disastrous considering the events of D2.

There's a difference between changing your mind and flip flopping on reads repeatedly. That's ignoring the fact that the change in opinions came at times most convenient for a mafioso and least convenient for a townie (you wrote off a scumread quickly and hopped wagons at phase end twice, and both times away from scum no less).

tl;dr my problems with your reads:

-Eclipse's interactions with Elie were really not strong. You youself thought that the Elie vote was bad as it wasn't made for a reason that is scummy.

-The turn-around on Elie was sudden, doesn't reflect a natural townie thought process and comes at a time where lynching Elie over eclipse might be favourable as Elie would be lynched either D2 or over the coming days whereas the push on eclipse wasn't as strong.

On Psych: I don't know if he's smart enough to pull off something like that, though he could plan it with his teammates.

[Refa]

I feel like you're twisting around my interactions to make them seem worse than they really are. For example, why would I lock myself into bussing eclipse as scum (why not just bus Elieson D1 instead)? Why did I only vote for scum on D2? Like seriously, what is the actual benefit to locking myself into a scum lynch no matter what I did? Basically most of my reads have been spot on and I'm still getting cased for it, it's stupid.

Exactly. I didn't think scum (eclipse) would make a lame reason to bus their scumbuddy (Elieson), because they wouldn't get optimal towncred that way. Also what the fuck at this ("you wrote off a scumread quickly and hopped wagons at phase end twice, and both times away from scum no less."). Ignoring that I hopped onto a scum wagon from another scum wagon, I never wrote off any of my D1 scumreads, people just did not agree with them with me. I also felt that BBM's case on Elieson was stronger than my case on eclipse.

[Zkirsche]

Elieson wasn't going to get lynched D1, so it's possible that you just chose eclipse over him arbitrarily, maybe due to role? I shouldn't need to explain why bussing can be helpful as scum. You didn't lock yourself onto scum, you suspected my slot too.

I guess that makes sense, but don't you think making a weak case like that can be beneficial as it can let you change opinions are later? I addressed your D2 swap, the swap to Elie was more convenient and looks like it was set up to be used as a defence: "look at how right I was!" Which is basically what you just did.

I understand that you changed your mind and that opinions changed, but you went from not really bothering to read and process BBM's case to suddenly hardpushing Elie, going as far as to repeat the case in full not once, but twice; pushing hard to encourage others who didn't really see scum!Elie to consider it more. It feels disconnected and rather unnatural to me which is what I find suspicious about it.

I don't think I'm twisting your actions, this interpretation is not unreasonable or overblown. Consider my interpretation of your Elie vote: Do you think you paid enough heed to BBM's case as he wrote it? Don't you think that repeating the case to people who didn't see Scum!Elie shows eagerness to convince others of his guilt? Don't you think that such an attitude change can be seen as suspicious? My answers are "no", "yes" and "yes" and I can't see the unreasonable interpretation there. Do you think I'm wrong and/or scummy for that interpretation or the other points here?

I want others to weigh in on this, I'm interested in the logic part of Via's townread on Refa but I would like some responses to the stuff here too and not just from Via obviously.

[Zkirsche]

Man I become really verbose when I can't quote bomb.

[Eurykins]

So.......I may have been preoccupied with IRL to the extent that I may have slightly forgotten to post/exist here. Whoops.

Wow, another confirmed scum shizz? Gj town.

I'm somehow still intent on seeing Refa gone at some point- I'm standing by "Mitsuki/Refa should be lynched" from D1 thoughts/guts

[MRDRHAWK]

I don't really see the cases on Refa? Like, he's playing a bit differently than he usually does, but I'm not feeling him being overly scummy in any way. Plus, I don't imagine Refa would be bussing two scumbuddies like he is based off of his normal style, so I'm not overly sold on Refa as scum.

[Refa]

Are you lyncher on me.

[Psych]

There's 14 people left alive though. Considering 14/5/1 though, that means we have 8/3/3.

Refa town in my eyes, as is Rein, but I feel like either one will be cult tonight or maybe was yesterday. Honestly, my scum reads are a little blank, as I've gone blank in regards to all the sub outs and the fact that so many people haven't been very active. I've been trying to read more for cult, but that's not really helping. I also don't really understand the eclipse lynch? Like she's too aggressive? Eclipse is always aggressive. I don't understand it but she does rub me the wrong way as there's something there in her tone that's not typical town eclipse though.

I also notice rein is now dead. I'll vote eclipse but I don't feel comfortable doing it this soon since I think we should draw the day out more.

[Refa]

Weapons saw eclipse targeting BBM last night, and she claimed to have no action (so it's not like she's some townie and scum just ninjakilled BBM).

[Percivalé]

it kinda feels like the day's slowing down

lurkers the eclipe lynch doesn't mean a free pass for you to lurk say something

also kirsche's/sb's constant push on refa is rly rubbing me the wrong way

[Psych]

oh well in that case

##Vote Eclipse

it kinda feels like the day's slowing down

lurkers the eclipe lynch doesn't mean a free pass for you to lurk say something

also kirsche's/sb's constant push on refa is rly rubbing me the wrong way

It is a little, but we still have like between 24-48 hours since I can't count. I think we should keep discussing cult stuff maybe but I don't really know what else we could talk about then.

[Percivalé]

dont leave eclipse at L-1 because if she's really scum she can self-hammer and cut our day early and you guys apparently don't want that so

[Jalmont]

so wait, are kirsche and sb the same slot with the same role pm? not really understanding that mechanic at the moment

i think psych is town. psych revealed it very early in the game iirc and i see no reason a mafia would open the game like that. seems too risky for it to be made up. of course, the cult could just be an elaborate troll (those kittens anyone?) but if it's real which psych's role seems to indicate it to be so, then i think psych is town

i think it's unfair to criticize refa for the eclipse to sara. turnaround, to be fair i had to take a look at what bbm had to say on the situation having not read it so thoroughly and i found my opinion to have been changed. while maybe you could say that refa was more blatant in switching, i felt that bbm's post encouraged me to relook through sara. and i changed my mind because i looked at the interactions and agreed with what bbm was saying moreso than what i thought about mafia having no reason to lie in sara.'s spot

didn't like the last eurykins post it just felt to me eurykins was getting behind refa being scum just because kirshe came in and layed down an argument on refa, relying on kirshe's argument instead of their own

[Refa]

##Unvote

To stop self hammers, I guess.