Mikethfc Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Hivemind refers to organized system of group controlled by a being. Think Ants, and Bees in real world. Tyranids and Zergs in games. 4chan is most certainly not a hivemind. If I had to compare 4chan to something. I'd compare it to Deep Sea. It's full of darkness, and unimaginable horrors. I like the TB quote although I can't fully remember it "4chan is like a blunderbuss full of shit, nails, waifus and crap, when it fires some of it will hit the right target and the rest will scatter everywhere leaving an unholy mess" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Not seeing any stickies on /v/ atm. They gave publicity to her game, and they wrote articles about her doing a game jam shortly after she D-Dos-ed TFYC one and one other one that she didn't want to be a part of.Also the doxxes linked to some place in Hawaii and a Motorbike shop, so it doesn't seem that valid.Plus it was never entirely all about her sex life, you think if she slept with 5 random firefighters, or anybody else outside of the games industry people would care more than making the odd joke?Plus on top of everything there's also the mass-censorship and the alleged wizard chan "attacks" which looks so much like it was a set up. Finally even if they were only close friends, siblings or flat-mates (like what they're reporting another journalist for now) they would probably have taken some issue with that although probably not to the same effect Also I'm not going to say there isn't overly misogynistic people there and a lot of lewds posted, but for the most part they're content just to shit on each other's preferences, (the only time you can have a good Metroid thread is early in the morning because there isn't the constant Prime vs Super, and Other M was good because it wasn't Prime) but I will say it is being overplayed. Also them sending the porn in with it was great, and Afterlife Empire because imagine the shitstorm and the tears when somebody accidentally kills Vivian in it, assuming she's an NPC that goes round the house. All I've seen is that she talked some shit about TFYC's idea on twitter, and when I saw what shit exactly I thought she might've been a bit harsh on what could be considered technicalities, but DDoS? Doxxing? Some assholes from whatever circles in the tumblr/twitterspheres may have [seen her conversation or otherwise gotten wind as a result of her having had words with them and subsequently] hated on TFYC about it, and like their response to things on soundcloud sounded mostly fair enough to me, and her "4 tweets" isn't breathlessly accurate, but I don't see the proof in the pudding for any of this. Is the cold hard proof that she slept with some guys coming based just on the words, words alone, of the same guy who posted her nudes and info? Because why would I believe that guy. The censorship crap, assuming we're talking about the reddit/whatever other gaming sites whatevers: man from a very slightly different perspective that's "somebody on reddit/rps/whatever knowing when his comments section has become raw sewage less worth the trouble of allowing or moderating than cutting off." It's not like turning off comments on a public private? I dunno whatever website or something is """censorship""" in the first place, it's just "use somebody else's fucking platform for this." Comments sections on news articles in general are routinely minefields regardless, I've heard arguments that they should be done away with entirely that frankly sounded less batshit than a bunch of comments sections I've seen I just, I can't see this as anything other than a completely, totally inordinate amount of bullshit over he-said she-said, at its absolute best Notwithstanding that some guys on /v/ gave some money to a self-identified feminist game jam, wonder of wonders yeah yeah whatever Edited August 28, 2014 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 You are giving her so much benefit of the doubt I am astounded holy shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Is the cold hard proof that she slept with some guys coming based just on the words, words alone, of the same guy who posted her nudes and info? Because why would I believe that guy. Well I mean when it's her own words through chat logs that the guy verified through video, then yeah, I kinda do expect you to believe it. http://thezoepost.wordpress.com/ Could there be bias from this guy? Yeah, sure. But when it's in her own words? Regardless, this is kinda of a separate deal from the whole journalism thing. I don't think anyone's defending doxxing or DDoSing, and I have no idea if she was involved in such. And this was wide-spread censorship throughout reddit/kotaku/whatever else, it wasn't like this was a few out-of-line comments - for questioning mods certain people were blatantly told to "Fuck off." on reddit, and those who even questioned gaming journalism in regards to this issue mildly were censored or banned. Not seeing any stickies on /v/ atm. https://archive.moe/v/thread/260249258/#q260256512 shall this suffice? Some of the videos have already been posted. Edit: I've also heard that Zoe Quinn herself has just donated to TFYC, for what reason I do not know. Edited August 28, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) double post instead of editing argh Edited August 28, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikethfc Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Not seeing any stickies on /v/ atm. All I've seen is that she talked some shit about TFYC's idea on twitter, and when I saw what shit exactly I thought she might've been a bit harsh on what could be considered technicalities, but DDoS? Doxxing? Some assholes from whatever circles in the tumblr/twitterspheres may have [seen her conversation or otherwise gotten wind as a result of her having had words with them and subsequently] hated on TFYC about it, and like their response to things on soundcloud sounded mostly fair enough to me, and her "4 tweets" isn't breathlessly accurate, but I don't see the proof in the pudding for any of this. Is the cold hard proof that she slept with some guys coming based just on the words, words alone, of the same guy who posted her nudes and info? Because why would I believe that guy. The censorship crap, assuming we're talking about the reddit/whatever other gaming sites whatevers: man from a very slightly different perspective that's "somebody on reddit/rps/whatever knowing when his comments section has become raw sewage less worth the trouble of allowing or moderating than cutting off." It's not like turning off comments on a public private? I dunno whatever website or something is """censorship""" in the first place, it's just "use somebody else's fucking platform for this." Comments sections on news articles in general are routinely minefields regardless, I've heard arguments that they should be done away with entirely that frankly sounded less batshit than a bunch of comments sections I've seen I just, I can't see this as anything other than a completely, totally inordinate amount of bullshit over he-said she-said, at its absolute best Notwithstanding that some guys on /v/ gave some money to a self-identified feminist game jam, wonder of wonders yeah yeah whatever Again, you're trying to make this about the sex, (which several cases were confirmed by other parties involved on Twitter.) So I'll ask again, do you really think this would have happened if the five guys were police officers or librarians? As far as private life goes, this is another issue with media corruption, as they obviously didn't feel that should be respected for Mattingly and Temkin, and if people are using it get ahead in their field, like when GH won an indiecade award, I would say it's 2(?) of the people on the panel having close ties to ZQ is a public issue. And I'm not even going into the "some comment sections are bad so we should get rid of all of them" debacle. Edit: I've also heard that Zoe Quinn herself has just donated to TFYC, for what reason I do not know. Yeah I heard that this morning, but I haven't seen anything on either twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Well I mean when it's her own words through chat logs that the guy verified through video, then yeah, I kinda do expect you to believe it. http://thezoepost.wordpress.com/ Could there be bias from this guy? Yeah, sure. But when it's in her own words? Regardless, this is kinda of a separate deal from the whole journalism thing. I don't think anyone's defending doxxing or DDoSing, and I have no idea if she was involved in such. And this was wide-spread censorship throughout reddit/kotaku/whatever else, it wasn't like this was a few out-of-line comments - for questioning mods certain people were blatantly told to "Fuck off." on reddit, and those who even questioned gaming journalism in regards to this issue mildly were censored or banned. https://archive.moe/v/thread/260249258/#q260256512 shall this suffice? Some of the videos have already been posted. Edit: I've also heard that Zoe Quinn herself has just donated to TFYC, for what reason I do not know. Last word I'd heard her give on it was a pastebin where the only thing she said about any of her sex life was along the lines of "not getting into any of it, don't have anything to prove, fuck off," didn't know she'd issued anything else. Taking a look at the blog post now Oh, it's the guy's account of it, with the chat logs. This is part of my problem with this whole thing- I don't know how to tell what share of almost any of this is verifiable beyond what people have posted on either social media or gaming sites, so I don't know whether I'm looking at images that could possibly be verified as "not doctored" by any method other than, I dunno, holding a magnifying glass up to source code. Without that, I still can't know for sure that this isn't he-said she-said. Do any of the videos cover that, before I take the plunge? A big reason I've been so set on noting doubt about this guy's words and his pictures, which, yeah, I keep coming back to, is that I keep hearing he posted nude pictures of her. The reason that makes me so leery is it's a scummy enough thing to do that even if everything he said there is true, he still fits the description of "vindictive ex with an axe to grind," and that in turn makes me much less inclined to take his word at face value. Also, putting aside that it's a shitty thing to do, new to me is how that post had him identifying as actually pro-feminist and pro-sjw. IIRC, somewhere in that post he said he regretted that this would draw some fire on those crowds or something. I've read a relatively small amount of material by some of those dudes, but it was plenty to make me ask, what the flaming merciless hell kind of person who's genuinely either of those would post any ex's nudes under circumstances anything like these, regardless of how wronged they felt? It's antithetical to everything I've ever heard come from anybody who identified like that. Didn't exactly incline me to give him the benefit of doubt. And I think I heard the original post was deleted? Was that it? The whole thing? Was it on Something Awful, I seem to remember hearing? And does anybody know if it was deleted (if it was) because the guy took it down (which I heard implied), or because of the site's moderation? I mean, I've seen people contest whether there was even proof Zoe was harassed afterwards. Just every possible thing to beg the question "is any of this shit even happening" Again, you're trying to make this about the sex, (which several cases were confirmed by other parties involved on Twitter.) So I'll ask again, do you really think this would have happened if the five guys were police officers or librarians? As far as private life goes, this is another issue with media corruption, as they obviously didn't feel that should be respected for Mattingly and Temkin, and if people are using it get ahead in their field, like when GH won an indiecade award, I would say it's 2(?) of the people on the panel having close ties to ZQ is a public issue. And I'm not even going into the "some comment sections are bad so we should get rid of all of them" debacle. Yeah I heard that this morning, but I haven't seen anything on either twitter. Okay, new to me. What exactly was verified on twitter by who? The reason I kept bringing up the sex thing was that I've seen so much half-hearted, incomplete whingeing about how it's not only a stone cold given that it absolutely happened, absent any real independent verification given by any of it I saw, and about how all the ways Zoe (and her free damned game etc) benefited unfairly solely because of sexual favors are self-evident. If anybody has even been calling out anything else in gaming journalism at large other than a single instance of assumed sex favors for unclear returns then I've missed it. Probably because, I admit, I've been sticking my head in the sand a bit after only seeing and hearing for myself the vilest, least-justified harassment shit. Which I can confirm exists, and didn't give a shit about anything else, like however many (other) goddamn dinosaurs of problems with video game journalism there are in the room. For the record, I've heard even less about Temkin, assuming that's the Cards Against Humanity guy being accused of rape years ago thing, or the Mattingly thing, assuming that was the guy who texted a drunk come-on to a journalist. Definitely don't doubt there were likely people who took both too far, like I don't doubt TFYC's original pitch didn't deserve to go the way it did either. Edited August 28, 2014 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) I suggest you watch the two InternetAristocrat videos. I think they summarise it pretty well, whatever your opinion is on it. The ex posted a video showing a part of the chat logs in the link. Depends on what you want to say on if video can be heavily doctored or not. And I haven't heard anything about the ex linking nude pictures. I've heard "Naked pictures of Quinn have begun to circulate. People have tried to frame this as nudes being leaked, but theres something wrong with that: The pictures being spread around are from professional photo shoots. These arent personal images being leaked, theyre readily available to anyone who pays for them." So yes, the boyfriend didn't leak them, they were in fact, already up on the internet. (Brokendollz is a softcore porn site, I think you can imagine the rest) Of course, when these were pointed to, she basically called harassment about the "proliferation of nude pictures". And also to paint the ex-boyfriend as a scumbag. Which has seem to have worked. I really can't be bothered getting into arguing the rest. Unlike some of others convictions on this, I don't see myself terribly excited on this. Edited August 28, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Nepos Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 A big reason I've been so set on noting doubt about this guy's words and his pictures, which, yeah, I keep coming back to, is that I keep hearing he posted nude pictures of her. The reason that makes me so leery is it's a scummy enough thing to do that even if everything he said there is true, he still fits the description of "vindictive ex with an axe to grind," and that in turn makes me much less inclined to take his word at face value. He didn't post nude pictures of her. The nude pictures circulating / having circulated were actually available from some website, for payment if I'm not mistaken. Quinn's ex had nothing to do with them. The main issues, at least to me, are: nepotism, conflict of interests. The fact that addressing these two issues was met with censorship and attempts to silence all criticism is a third issue, which was then added to the list. Quinn's sexual infidelity is a side note. However, I do not agree with people saying about her sexual infidelity: "Her sex life is her private business and everyone should stay out of it." Forgive me the exaggerated comparison, but if someone's sex life is nobody else's business, then please explain to me how the Lewinsky scandal was anyone's business and why there was a vote to impeach Bill Clinton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Zoe Quinn is not a victim here. Let's be clear. She wasnt doxxed. She faked doxxed herself with fake information. There is proof that that the information is fake. The numbers that were supposedly doxxed led to a shop in Hawaii among other things. Nobody leaked nudes of her. They were publicly available on a porn site that she herself sold those photos too. Now she's going around accusing anyone who disagrees with her of doxxing her and spreading her nudes like she did with Adam Baldwin after he called her bullshit out. She also harassed a Wizardchan and claimed she was the one being harassed. The proof that that she cheated on the guy is there in his blog. But that's not the main issue anymore. Nevermind that at least one of the guy admitted to having a relationship with her but insists there was no conflict of interest which is lol. Then you have shit like her getting TFYC shut down for a while. Zoe Quinn is not the victim. The worst part however, is the blanket censorship on all news sites who either refuse to talk about it claiming personal lives of game developrs are not their concern or just accuse all critics of her being angry young males. Many things wrong with that. These news sites were all too happy to discuss the rape allegations against Tempkin and these articles are still up for all to see. The reputation of that man was ruined forever, no matter if the charges were true or not. And yet, they are won't discuss this. Unbelievable. The claim that ot's only angry young males is also bullshit since women are also demanding answers. What's also pretty bad is the abuse that TotalBiscuit has been getting from SJWs for taking a totally neutral stance and asking both sides to calm down or abusing JonTron for not siding with Zoe. Zoe Quinn is a not victim. She's much closer to being the oppressor. This post though (https://archive.moe/v/thread/260249258/#q260256512) as linked by Tryhard contains everything of note. Edited August 28, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Ugh. Okay, yeah, been an idiot in here/on this, repeated a lot of the kind of hearsay I was on about myself and came from a position of more ignorance than not while assuming a lot less good faith than I was myself giving, became my own peeve etc, no excuse for it. Just let this shit strike a nerve a couple days ago and turned the blinders on. I apologize. I just, I loathe the harassment. Wish I'd thought more of that before assuming the worst of the ex and more, but I have a lot of personal problems with the idea of it evading the spotlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Ugh. Okay, yeah, been an idiot in here/on this, repeated a lot of the kind of hearsay I was on about myself and came from a position of more ignorance than not while assuming a lot less good faith than I was myself giving, became my own peeve etc, no excuse for it. Just let this shit strike a nerve a couple days ago and turned the blinders on. I apologize. I just, I loathe the harassment. Wish I'd thought more of that before assuming the worst of the ex and more, but I have a lot of personal problems with the idea of it evading the spotlight. S'alright mate, no hard feelings, I don't blame you with as much misinformation flying around from both sides. Obviously I would hope that no-one supports the harassment (which I would say is different from "questioning the possibility of conflict of interests"). (Some) people are angry for the wrong reasons, and those on the other side may have been obfuscated and lied to. It's a shame. Edited August 28, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Ugh. Okay, yeah, been an idiot in here/on this, repeated a lot of the kind of hearsay I was on about myself and came from a position of more ignorance than not while assuming a lot less good faith than I was myself giving, became my own peeve etc, no excuse for it. Just let this shit strike a nerve a couple days ago and turned the blinders on. I apologize. I just, I loathe the harassment. Wish I'd thought more of that before assuming the worst of the ex and more, but I have a lot of personal problems with the idea of it evading the spotlight. It's all good. Her supporters are spreading misinformation fast. Even the likes of Adam Baldwin have joined in and supporting us. Edited August 28, 2014 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Incidently, one of the women who were up in arms over TFYC accepting money from 4chan has apologized.That twitlonger of hers was really profound, imo. I was impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 That twitlonger of hers was really profound, imo. I was impressed. I couldn't find the link so I edited my post to remove the reference to it but if have the link... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s644c0 This would be it, right? Edit: I'm getting shocked about the amount of articles calling misogyny and sexism over this, and the people on twitter/tumblr who are defending vehemently. This honestly worries me. Edited August 28, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 http://www.brightsideofnews.com/2014/08/25/gamers-revolt-another-take-on-the-zoe-quinn-scandal/ Great article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alertcircuit Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Edit: I'm getting shocked about the amount of articles calling misogyny and sexism over this, and the people on twitter/tumblr who are defending vehemently. This honestly worries me. The harassers and the people making threats, hacking, etc. are pretty obviously misogynists hiding behind the game journalism thing. The thing is that social justice people are trying to find the line and figure out who is a sexist harasser and who is a calm criticizer of the concept of fucking your way to the top, and they get it wrong sometimes. The whole situation is really a mess. Let this thing be a lesson to everyone not to censor or cheat or lie or anything in the eyes of a public audience, or shit goes awry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Nepos Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I think a big part of the issue is how most sources on it are biased. A lot of people join in on the discussion without really knowing the whole story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) The harassers and the people making threats, hacking, etc. are pretty obviously misogynists hiding behind the game journalism thing. The thing is that social justice people are trying to find the line and figure out who is a sexist harasser and who is a calm criticizer of the concept of fucking your way to the top, and they get it wrong sometimes. The whole situation is really a mess. Let this thing be a lesson to everyone not to censor or cheat or lie or anything in the eyes of a public audience, or shit goes awry.The problem with these sorts of people is that they often wait for such hate comments/threats to come in (and no doubt, they will come in - people are like that, especially when instigated), say how awful people are acting to them, and then disable comments and ratings as to prevent anyone calling them out legitimately and paint anyone who criticizes them in a bad light. Indeed, some/many are saying that Zoe Quinn (and possibly Phil Fish for whatever relevance he has to the story) herself 'pretended' to be doxxed like RJW said (with the information leading to a shop in Hawaii, supposedly) to turn round and basically say, "look how awful these people are." I really have no love for /v/ or 4chan in general, but I find it extremely intellectually dishonest and manipulative the way these people conduct themselves, and its spread across multiple websites this past few days. As Ariel said from that earlier apology: "I didn't do research. Why would I? Obviously someone as awesome as her would know what she's talking about. And therein lies the problem. It's so easy to misdirect and deflect blame or scrutiny from yourself by choosing your words carefully." I can't really feel mad at the people who go along blindly with people like Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian as soon as they hear the word "misogyny". It really is quite controlling. Gamers are horrible people, or something. These were some of the examples of the coverage it was getting from Quinn's side. Really, there hasn't been too many articles that have sided against her, the one by RJW was one, and I believe there was another one that was taken down (it figures), but I can't really find much else from the media. Then again, I'm not entirely sure about these sites. Ah, well. I find some of the claims in these articles to be ridiculous to say the least. http://www.dailydot.com/geek/zoe-quinn-depression-quest-gaming-sex-scandal/ http://www.dailydot.com/geek/4chan-hacks-phil-fish-over-his-defense-of-zoe-quinn/ http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/zoe-quinn-slut-shaming-the-feminist-conspiracy-and-depression-quest http://www.vice.com/read/meet-the-female-gamer-mascot-created-by-anti-feminists-828 http://www.themarysue.com/video-game-harassment-zoe-quinn-anita-sarkeesian/ Here was the latest one, and this one really made me laugh, honestly. http://kotaku.com/we-might-be-witnessing-the-death-of-an-identity-162820379 Edit: It should be noted that I obviously have my own bias and tendencies, and you should keep that in mind. I look at the evidence presented and I think this is the most likely case. Edited August 29, 2014 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The SJWs are demanding that Valve block Stream access for an hour to protest the 'harassment'. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Wow. So i actually took a look at this. Wow. Im officially grossed out. Now, before you go "BUT LOKI~" ill explain what grosses me out. Someone here messed up big time. Someone let a cat out of the bag. Now that someone is trying to control the media by various forms of language policing and twisting of information, on top of fabrication of evidence. You know, this looks like your average political scandal. The difference here, theres a woman involved and its online and about gaming. But this person is capitalizing on the fact she has a vag in order to garner support. Claim to be a feminist. Capitalizes and manipulates a situation because female. Thats fucking disgusting and the biggest double standard ever. This is everything thats wrong with internet social justice. Now then, the other elephant in the room: The Gaming Journalism Issue. This is an issue. Gaming journalism has been biased and fucked up for eons. The fact that this ugly beast is what brings the issues to the forefront, depresses me. However, maybe some good will come from it. There is a lesson to be learned here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 http://kotaku.com/we-might-be-witnessing-the-death-of-an-identity-162820379 edit: wow, they actually took it down Edit2: It should be noted that I obviously have my own bias and tendencies, and you should keep that in mind. I look at the evidence presented and I think this is the most likely case. I saw this earlier, and audibly laughed when I read him saying he was going to moderate the comments. Of course the ones that were left were those which did not disagree, who'da thunk. I didn't see it get taken down though, good. The sooner these people realize the gaming community isn't going to eat their insane drivel and desperate attempts to spin this in their favor, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry/ An excellent article. The title is intentionally ironic. Great article. I mean that genuinely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 When I was talking about claiming harassment, this is the sort of the thing I meant. [spoiler=big image] (And I guess OP enough people care about it lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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