List all the wasted potential in Awakening. And think of ways to improve them for the next Fire Emblem.

[Superfan959]

While "options" are always nice in theory, it's impossible to create a well balanced game when you're trying to cater to everyone's individual preferences. Let's face it - this game has serious issues regarding difficulty curves and balancing. The developers were unable to find that sweetspot between "lol everything breaks the game" and "completely luck-based sadism", and I can't help but feel this was the direct result of giving the player too many damn ways to play the game. I know that sounds "narrow-minded", "archaic", or whatnot to many of you, but I don't think it's a coincidence that this game is the one with both the most "options" and the worst balancing in the series.

If they can make the next game with the same "options" but with thought-provoking level design & enemy placement, fair but challenging difficulty (an issue for most games in the series, but let's get it a liiiittle closer to the pre-DS days), etc, I'll gladly eat my words. I just don't see such a thing happening.

[Thor Odinson]

Games are meant for people's enjoyment. It's first and foremost a means of entertainment. It does not have to be perfectly balanced. Balance is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but some times overbalance can detract from the fun factor, and you really want games to be fun. Now, everyone has a different metric of fun, so having options allows the game to feel fun for more people, and that's what's important. Especially considering that this is a single player game and all, who the fuck cares? It's not like games with actual multiplayer where you need to ensure more balance for the fairness of all player's options etc. Don't like something? Don't use it. Nobody's stopping you.

Maybe the devs could add some type of checkbox type of thing in a side options menu for the people seriously lacking self control but still want to play the hardest mode with none of the optional stuff. Or something. Actually turning risen spawning off would be grand. I hate when they spawn and thus blocked my second seal shopping experiences.

[ClassyWolf]

It does not have to be perfectly balanced. Balance is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but some times overbalance can detract from the fun factor, and you really want games to be fun.

This depends on how you mean it, ballance between enemy and your own units is something that is needed, but balance between classes isn't nececarily that good, this doesen't mean that some classes have to be bad (altough is often a side effect), but that the classes have different strengts and weaknesses and, when used effectivly, cover each others weaknesses.

Thats my 2 cents in that.

Edited September 3, 2014 by that one person

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i personally don't care about how broken you are in any videogame, as long as the enemy's or stages can give you a challenge or at least make you think.

i think we can all agree with this at the least.

[Interceptor]

Lunatic+ is, in my opinion, a really poorly designed game mode just because of the first 4 chapters. First of all, you're basically forced to play the game in very specific ways and use specific setups to do it. It's set up in such a way that you're forced to use Frederick, who even then is still taken down fairly easily if you do it wrong. Whether or not the levels are even BEATABLE is entirely up to the RNG and what enemies it throws at you. After chapter 4 it lets up a bit, but those first 4 chapters just really break the deal for me because of how specific the ways to win are. It's hardly even a strategy game when you consider that.

L+ is an excellent difficulty mode; it's probably the best one that the series has ever had, despite the flaws. Unlike other attempts at "challenge" modes, L+ tests your actual skills as a player, as opposed to seeing how good you are at memorization/iteration. You can't just keep banging your head against the same layout until you find a way through: you have to have an overall plan, as well as the ability to make adjustments based on the situation in which you find yourself.

I've never understood the "specific ways to win" criticism. Not only is it inaccurate (there are multiple ways to handle earlygame), but having a wide breadth of options is duplicative with other difficulties. If you want to play a carebear mode where you can get away with almost anything, that's what the vanilla stuff is for. The surest way to screw something up is to try to please everyone at once; L+ does one thing, and does it very well. That's not a failing, that's one of its strengths.

[ClassyWolf]

L+ is an excellent difficulty mode; it's probably the best one that the series has ever had, despite the flaws. Unlike other attempts at "challenge" modes, L+ tests your actual skills as a player, as opposed to seeing how good you are at memorization/iteration. You can't just keep banging your head against the same layout until you find a way through: you have to have an overall plan, as well as the ability to make adjustments based on the situation in which you find yourself.

I've never understood the "specific ways to win" criticism. Not only is it inaccurate (there are multiple ways to handle earlygame), but having a wide breadth of options is duplicative with other difficulties. If you want to play a carebear mode where you can get away with almost anything, that's what the vanilla stuff is for. The surest way to screw something up is to try to please everyone at once; L+ does one thing, and does it very well. That's not a failing, that's one of its strengths.

I hate to say, but after my initial complaining and playing past the first few chapters, I kinda agree with you. It test the players adaptability, and while I thought it was way too cheap at first, I changed my mind about it as I got further and started to acctually enjoy the game mode.

[Irysa]

While "options" are always nice in theory, it's impossible to create a well balanced game when you're trying to cater to everyone's individual preferences. Let's face it - this game has serious issues regarding difficulty curves and balancing. The developers were unable to find that sweetspot between "lol everything breaks the game" and "completely luck-based sadism", and I can't help but feel this was the direct result of giving the player too many damn ways to play the game. I know that sounds "narrow-minded", "archaic", or whatnot to many of you, but I don't think it's a coincidence that this game is the one with both the most "options" and the worst balancing in the series.

If they can make the next game with the same "options" but with thought-provoking level design & enemy placement, fair but challenging difficulty (an issue for most games in the series, but let's get it a liiiittle closer to the pre-DS days), etc, I'll gladly eat my words. I just don't see such a thing happening.

FE games are kinda all self imposed difficulty though. Like, nobody says we have to keep everyone alive, or not grind in the arena, or try to raise other units etc. I feel like that's kinda in spirit of the series.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Irysa

[Interceptor]

I hate to say, but after my initial complaining and playing past the first few chapters, I kinda agree with you. It test the players adaptability, and while I thought it was way too cheap at first, I changed my mind about it as I got further and started to acctually enjoy the game mode.

That's not uncommon. I used to crap on L+ back in the day, based on early reports of what it was like. Then I actually sat down and played it myself, and although it was frustrating at first, eventually I came to appreciate what it had to offer.

[Snowy_One]

1) Better balance to pairing up. I liked the mechanic a lot, loved it in fact, and I want it to return. I DON'T want it to be as ungodly broken as it was in this game. I had Nino tanking entire fights just because she had the Burger King as her partner. Granted that's a general with good stats, but... yea.

2) Better DLC. I loved the DLC in FE. I love HAVING DLC in FE! I mean, sweet! New maps, new characters, able to bring in older characters from other games... It's awesome! But... Then... When I got the BK he was just a general... Not even one with sword-ranks... what?

[isetrh]

I thought that in no-grind L+ the water trick was retty much required. That part seems retty cookie cutter, Ameven if the rest of the game requires creativity. Am I wrong?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I thought that in no-grind L+ the water trick was retty much required. That part seems retty cookie cutter, Ameven if the rest of the game requires creativity. Am I wrong?

It's not. I've beaten Lunatic+ without using the water trick. It's a bit more touch-and-go and requires leaning on Fred a bit longer, but Veteran is too strong to be held back for long.

[Interceptor]

I thought that in no-grind L+ the water trick was retty much required. That part seems retty cookie cutter, Ameven if the rest of the game requires creativity. Am I wrong?

I don't see why it would. The water trick just makes the top half of Prologue easier, you're still going to get Robin to level 5 or so without it.

The stat minimums for Robin in the early chapters are fairly modest. Sure, you need a bunch of SPD and MAG for Ch2 if you're using my method, but that's because it's skill-agnostic. In a real-world scenario, you have more flexibility in your movements because you can react to the situation on the ground, and not worst-case assume that every enemy has all available skills (which is what I had to do).

[Sleepy_Tactician]

I think the lunatic + skills were too unfair. Ambush spawns are even more bullshit than they ever have been.

Hey. I see ya working real hard. Killing some mooks. Lemme just spawn over here behind you real quick and poke you with this here lance. Oh you have a defense stat? That's too bad. (Luna + activates). GG fgt! Get r3kt! .

L+is far too luck based. You may or may not get a map full of assholes with counter and hawkeye or an ambush spawn full of Luna +. And if you're unlucky they will tear you a new asshole. At least they don't hit you with the BS ambush spawns until later in the game. But still, it's unfair design. Challenge shouldn't be based on random deaths that you have little or no control over. That's just frustrating. It's less of a matter of skill than it is a matter of whether or not Anna feels like making your day miserable or not. Yeah it's true for general FE but it's far more pronounced in FE13 L+. I know I could just not play it if it frustrates me. But it could have been handled much better IMO.

. I had Nino tanking entire fights just because she had the Burger King as her partner. Granted that's a general with good stats, but... yea.

Wat? Never mind.

Lol BK can't even use swords. IS trolled him.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Sleepy_Tactician

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Um, the player does have control over how to fight reinforcements. For fort tiles, parking a unit on it prevents the reinforcements from spawning. For the edge-of-the-map reinforcements, keep units out of the attack range of the spawn points. Sure, it makes the map feel more cramped, but part of using strategy is adapting to compensate.

[IceBrand]

Um, the player does have control over how to fight reinforcements. For fort tiles, parking a unit on it prevents the reinforcements from spawning. For the edge-of-the-map reinforcements, keep units out of the attack range of the spawn points. Sure, it makes the map feel more cramped, but part of using strategy is adapting to compensate.

And to be fair, most of the time the game gives you warning of reinforcements(just not the location).

Edited September 3, 2014 by Ace Gamer

[Sleepy_Tactician]

You can't always cover the forts in time. Especially when you're forced into a situation where you have to turtle through. Also, you have to pray to anna so that you don't get paladins or other units with high move and luna+ and hawkeye that can close in on you in the very turn they spawn in and luna+ your face with perfect accuracy. (thank goodness they don't get brave weapons) Yeah there's ways around it, But it's still pretty luck based if you ask me.

IIRC they don't always warn you, but fair point.

Note, it's not as much the ambush spawns that bother me as much as it is the skills. I'm just saying, it makes the ambushes even more BS. Without shit like luna + and hawkeye and Pavis/aegis+ etc, it wouldn't be so bad.

[Baldrick]

In a way, the ambush spawns with random skills are no worse than playing FOW maps blind; you are tested on your ability to anticipate what will be thrown at you, and your defensive formation. That said, they are a nasty combo so the player should be offered the choice to deal with either one or the other.

Edited September 4, 2014 by WeaponsOfMassBaldrick

[Airship Canon]

i personally don't care about how broken you are in any videogame, as long as the enemy's or stages can give you a challenge or at least make you think.

i think we can all agree with this at the least.

This.

Now, an RPG is an RPG, and if you decide to level off Boars, you level off Boars. If this doesn't give an actual rise in power compared to the enemy, what's the point to the stats?

...But there should always be something to challenge you, somewhere. Which is where the concept of "Balance the game around the strongest choices" comes into play.

If a game offers a choice to the player, anywhere, that affects how powerful they can become, the game should be assuming that the strongest choices will be made for the highest end.

...And that's my issue with Awakening's Post-Game. It doesn't. It may have done the opposite, which creates a powergap and weakens the whole.

Apotheosis [Particularly SR] is /supposed/ to fill that niche for challenging the high end. It doesn't. You get all this power thrown around, and for what? If you're running it all, the hardest/highest level map in the entire game becomes almost a brain check... you basically don't have to make any strategic decisions, and the level of tactics required is "nothing special" at that point. That's why all these challenge runs exist.

Main game, especially Lunatic+ (which starts assuming meta strategies, like Nosferatu spam, will be used [and throws things that counter them, like ...Counter at you]) did well for what it is. The only issue is scaling for skill of player, which has that notable "Missing Maniac Mode". Yes, main game can be trivialized by "Grind off Boars" or using a dominant/meta strategy. ..doesn't mean that was poorly handled.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Airship Canon

[Sleepy_Tactician]

Well, that's a good point. Despite hating it with a passion, I still enjoy the game very much. I've spent about 300 hours playing

Still I think it's flawed. Another thing I think needs to be nerfed or cut is the forge. At least in FE10, you could only forge iron, steel, or silver and base thrown IIRC They were good enough to warrant use but not so good that they outclass the legendary weapons. In 13 you could forge brave weapons. WHO THE HELL THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO LET THE PLAYER FORGE BRAVE WEAPONS? You can also forge nosferatu and Aversa's Night. Once again, WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA?

[Interceptor]

You can't always cover the forts in time. Especially when you're forced into a situation where you have to turtle through. Also, you have to pray to anna so that you don't get paladins or other units with high move and luna+ and hawkeye that can close in on you in the very turn they spawn in and luna+ your face with perfect accuracy. (thank goodness they don't get brave weapons) Yeah there's ways around it, But it's still pretty luck based if you ask me.

You just need to step up your game. I don't have a problem with reinforcements in L+, and it's because:

• Nothing should be a surprise, because everything has already been experienced in vanilla Lunatic. There is no difference in stats or units.
• Just in case you forgot, they warn you that reinforcements are coming.
• I assume that every unit has every skill, and prepare around that.

There's no "luck" here. None of the L+ skills have any luck factor whatsoever: Luna+/PavGis+ always proc, Hawkeye always hits, Pass always Passes, Vantage+ always goes first, Counter always fires if you hit at 1-range and the enemy doesn't die. What you call "luck", I call "preparation".

Dealing with L+ reinforcements is another aspect of understanding Fire Emblem mechanics. By the time that you have to face any, you should already be well-acquainted with how the bonus skills work, and what you need to do in order to deal with the unknown.

[Sleepy_Tactician]

Lol You're right, I am a noob lol. But I meant what's luck based about it is that the skills are random. You could be (and are likely to be) that unlucky guy to get swarmed with a bunch of luna + enemies and then you're screwed because if you can't take them out fast enough, it's up to the RNG if you can survive or not. And sometimes because the game decides to throw that ONE guy with luna +/hawkeye at you, Game Over unless dual guard decides to kick in.

IMO Enemy phase is hell when luna+ or counter is involved because I basically have no defense stat. And my units are penalized for not being able to one shot the enemy general that for whatever reason has counter. I am forced to rely on vantage wrath criticals to kill them before I can get hurt by my own attack. Which is luck based unless I have 100% Critical. And if they have vantage+, my unit has to be able to survive the hit, then survive their own hit. And Anna help me if something like astra activates.... Nosfertanking is a thing but it won't help if my unit gets taken out in one hit or deals less damage than received. Especially if counter is around.

On player phase, I need to rely on galeforce to kill them all before they can do too much damage. But If there's a lot of them and if they have pavise/aegis+, I'll need to get a lucky crit or my own luna or something. Which relies on luck. Unless I'm going about this the wrong way entirely, (Which is likely) in which case please show me my error.

I know it's possible to beat, I just think IS could have thought of a better way to increase difficulty besides giving the enemies BS skills.

[shadowofchaos]

The skills are random so that you don't bruteforce your way through by relying on the same strategy over and over again hoping it'll get you through.

It forces you to think on your feet. It was part of the design, and I've learned to appreciate it over time.

And sometimes because the game decides to throw that ONE guy with luna +/hawkeye at you, Game Over unless dual guard decides to kick in.

IMO Enemy phase is hell when luna+ or counter is involved because I basically have no defense stat. And my units are penalized for not being able to one shot the enemy general that for whatever reason has counter.

1. If you have no defense stat you'd be dead regardless if they had Luna+ or not.

2. Find the turtling spots and unequip your damn weapon on your tank. Or switch to the bow user. OR USE FREAKING RANGED WEAPONS OR SPELLS OR SOMETHING. Mages doing major damage to physical units are not meant to get up in their face to take huge damage from counter AND get wrecked by a counter attack.

On player phase, I need to rely on galeforce to kill them all before they can do too much damage. But If there's a lot of them and if they have pavise/aegis+, I'll need to get a lucky crit or my own luna or something. Which relies on luck.

...if you have Galeforce by the time you're handling this, you either:

A) Should be familiar with the layouts of the enemies, their behavior, their reinforcements, and know how to deal with them.

B) Grinded to all hell and don't know what in the hell you're doing to die from relying on criticals. It's your fault that it's "luck based".

So far all of your "luck based" occurences have been your own fault.

Earlygame has an element of that because the mode has its flaws.

But many people have gotten past that.

I am SORRY to sound so elitist, but damn, it sounds like you're just salty and have an agenda against Lunatic+.

Learn from your mistakes instead of trying to put the blame on a game mode you can't handle.

Come back when you have more solid evidence of "luck based".

Edited September 4, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Kreekakon]

I personally have not yet played Lunatic+ (Still being on my first run of Lunatic normal), and from what I've read I agree that while the Lunatic+ skills are very fearsome they are all able to be dealt with properly.

However putting aside simply being able to be "dealt with", there is one skill of the Lunatic+ skill pool that I dislike out of design: Hawkeye

The reason I dislike this skill is because it complete negates any influence of the avoid that your unit may have. Luna+ at least will still take your defense into account, and you will still be rewarded for your unit having a high enough defense to soak it up. Hawkeye just takes the factor that it affects (Avoid), and completely throws it out the window, removing its existence for this battle completely.

It is definitely able to be dealt with in various ways such as attacking in a way so that the enemy cannot attack back, or others. Later in the game, the damage might not even be large enough to matter that much. I simply do not like the skill because it removes completely one of the many factors that go into determining how a battle will turn out.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Kreekakon

[Interceptor]

Lol You're right, I am a noob lol. But I meant what's luck based about it is that the skills are random.

The pool of skills is always from the same seven, and none of them have random properties. You can prepare for any by preparing for all. This is how the Ch2 strategy I posted works: I just assume that all enemies have every skill, and solve the problem for that situation. You can do the same thing for reinforcements.

IMO Enemy phase is hell when luna+ or counter is involved because I basically have no defense stat. [...] Unless I'm going about this the wrong way entirely, (Which is likely) in which case please show me my error.

Your problems are completely self-inflicted. Sometimes you need to be creative to deal with reinforcements. Take a look at what I did for Ch16 in my playlog. This chapter is notorious for having both a mess of fliers, and reinforcements that arrive from behind your starting position. I deal with it by avoiding land-based enemies, unequipping people, and limiting their facings.

However putting aside simply being able to be "dealt with", there is one skill of the Lunatic+ skill pool that I dislike out of design: Hawkeye

The reason I dislike this skill is because it complete negates any influence of the avoid that your unit may have. Luna+ at least will still take your defense into account, and you will still be rewarded for your unit having a high enough defense to soak it up. Hawkeye just takes the factor that it affects (Avoid), and completely throws it out the window, removing its existence for this battle completely.

Hawkeye needs to exist in order to make Luna+ a credible threat. Otherwise you could just load up your army with dodgetanks.

Each of the L+ skills unravels one or more standard strategies. PavGis+ forces you to have variety in weapon types, Counter kills the super-unit tactic (mostly), Pass breaks up walls, Vantage+ makes weakening/training more difficult and forces extra damage on you, etc. Hawkeye and Luna+ work to keep you from just bombing through the game with units that have either high avoid or high concrete defenses, respectively.

[Kreekakon]

Hawkeye needs to exist in order to make Luna+ a credible threat. Otherwise you could just load up your army with dodgetanks.

But why couldn't they have made Hawkeye be a skill that gives general all-around +50, or x2 hit? Heck I would even go with something like +100 hit (Exaggeration, but you get the idea). My point is that the concept of Hawkeye now completely ignores the Avoid on your character, making one of the aspects of battle not play a role at all.

Even if it ended up with something like x2 hit, then what it would be would probably be that normal units would always get hit, and dodge-tanks would be extremely weakened in effectiveness. I like this better, because it at least still acknowledges the skill points that you have on your units. I don't have this problem with Luna+, because while it still does immense guaranteed damage, your defense will still play a role in it.

I understand the role that Hawkeye is intended to play. I just do not like the way it was presented.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Kreekakon