Smash 4 Tier List Speculation (May Contain Spoilers)

[Carter]

I don't go to tournaments, nor do I watch them, but I actually love tier lists.

It's like one big competition between all of the fighters.

Smash 4 recently came out in Japan, and many gameplay videos have surfaced. Gathering this, along with analysis and mere speculation, we could (SF) make our own, influenced by no outside voices (other forums, posts, etc).

So, I'm curious. What do you guys think about each character?

(None of these listed are of my decision; NO BIAS included). If I made this list, Zelda would be S, but we all know that's not happening xD.

S

Robin

Zero Suit Samus

Rosalina & Luma

Duck Hunt

A+

Pac Man

Shulk

Villager

Meta Knight

Greninja

Lucario

Yoshi

A-

Dedede

Bowser Jr.

Pikachu

B+

Bowser

Kirby

Fox

Toon Link

Sheik

Lucina

Marth

B

Peach

Sonic

Link

Wario

Mr. Game & Watch

B-

R.O.B.

Charizard

Dark Pit

C+

Dr. Mario

Pit

Yoshi

Captain Falcon

C

Wario

Falco

Palutena

Donkey Kong

Diddy Kong

C-

Mario

Ness

Samus

Luigi

D

Little Mac

Ike

Zelda

Wii Fit Trainer

E

Jigglypuff

Mega Man

F

Ganondorf

And please, don't tell me this is a stupid idea since Smash 4 literally just came out.

This was for fun, and to see what the people at SERENESFOREST thought about each character.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Carter

[Mighty Kamina]

It's not a dumb idea, but making a tier list this early will usually end up with a tier list that is dramatically different from even the 2nd tier list. (Especially that the NA release isn't even out yet) From what I've seen though, Shulk will probably be in the S - A- tier range. Ganondorf will probably end up at the bottom of tier F because he looks almost identical to how he was in Brawl.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Shulk

[solrocknroll]

Lesse here...

Ganon, Lucina, Ness, and Marth don't look to be the highest of tiers.

Shulk, Robin, and Villager look good.

[Shin]

This seems incredibly preemptive, the chances are it's going to be terribly wrong too! I remember that people thought Toon Link would be top tier before Brawl!

[Anacybele]

I don't think we can make tier lists anymore, to be honest. Because customizing exists now. So we can make characters better or worse than they are by default. You could just say that the tier lists will be for default builds only, but they won't matter in tournaments that allow customizations.

[Mighty Kamina]

I don't think we can make tier lists anymore, to be honest. Because customizing exists now. So we can make characters better or worse than they are by default. You could just say that the tier lists will be for default builds only, but they won't matter in tournaments that allow customizations.

Not exactly true. It's highly likely that most, if not all tournaments will force the default build for each character.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Mario needs to be in like C- tier or some junk, cuz hes actually kinda bad. Other than the slight buff of the fireballs, hes the same as he was in Brawl.

Other than that, i do think this is a dumb idea because its just too soon.

[Shin]

I don't think we can make tier lists anymore, to be honest. Because customizing exists now. So we can make characters better or worse than they are by default. You could just say that the tier lists will be for default builds only, but they won't matter in tournaments that allow customizations.

In all honesty, the pros will find set ups that work best and lists will be based on those. Think of it like Pokemon's tiering system, they're based on the optimum movesets they can have.

[Carter]

I don't think we can make tier lists anymore, to be honest. Because customizing exists now. So we can make characters better or worse than they are by default. You could just say that the tier lists will be for default builds only, but they won't matter in tournaments that allow customizations.

Then let's base our decisions by default movesets!

[Phoenix Wright]

serious question:

in what ways was meta knight nerfed?

[Ema Skye]

Oh what the heck.

Spoilered for size.

Characters are not ordered within their tiers:

S+ : Palutena, Robin, ZSS, Sheik, Duck Hunt, Rosalina

S- : Pac-Man, Shulk, Villager, Meta Knight, Greninja, Lucario

A+ : Dedede, Bowser Jr., Lucina, Marth, Pikachu, Toon Link

A- : Bowser, Kirby, Wii Fit Trainer, Link, Fox

B+ : Peach, Sonic, Mr. Game and Watch, ROB, Charizard, Dark Pit

B : Dr. Mario, Pit, Yoshi, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong

B- : Donkey Kong, Ness, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Mario, Samus

C : Little Mac, Ike, Jigglypuff, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mega Man

Everyone pretty much looks viable in this game though, which is why I introduced all of the + and - tiers. I think the difference between, for example, Duck Hunt and Mega Man, is a lot smaller than the difference between Melee Fox and Melee Kirby, or Brawl Meta Knight and Brawl Ganondorf.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Doofina

[riariadne]

Not exactly true. It's highly likely that most, if not all tournaments will force the default build for each character.

This is really way too early to call that- from the looks of it, customizing moves doesn't take that much time and can be done from the character select screen. Games like Street Fighter that have this sort of thing as an option do allow moveset choices, so saying "probably no custom moves" this early is unwise.

I don't think a tier list this early makes any sense because I am fairly certain almost nobody here has actually played the full game. It'll all be off of what we've seen other people do and what others have said- at the least it'd be smarter to wait for the full game to come out worldwide.

[Carter]

This seems incredibly preemptive, the chances are it's going to be terribly wrong too! I remember that people thought Toon Link would be top tier before Brawl!

REALLY? I can assure you, ours will be WAY more off! :)

This is really way too early to call that- from the looks of it.

I don't think a tier list this early makes any sense because I am fairly certain almost nobody here has actually played the full game. It'll all be off of what we've seen other people do and what others have said- at the least it'd be smarter to wait for the full game to come out worldwide.

Well yes, I addressed that in my post.

Still, there's always the famous question: WHY NOT? It's for fun! Of COURSE it'll be way off! That's what makes it great!

Go with the flow!

Edited September 14, 2014 by Carter

[Anacybele]

Why wouldn't there ever be tournaments that allow customizations? I would think that a lot of competitive players would want to look for builds they think are good and test them out.

[Carter]

Why wouldn't there ever be tournaments that allow customizations? I would think that a lot of competitive players would want to look for builds they think are good and test them out.

I didn't say that!

I said "Then let's base our decisions by default movesets!", not "TOUnaMENTS WILL NOT ALLOW IT"! You got cotton in your ears? hardeeharharharharharharhar

[Anacybele]

I know, Carter, I was directing that to those who thought there would be no tournaments that allowed customizations. :P

[Carter]

I see... carry on then!

Oh what the heck.

Spoilered for size.

Characters are not ordered within their tiers:

S+ : Palutena, Robin, ZSS, Sheik, Duck Hunt, Rosalina

S- : Pac-Man, Shulk, Villager, Meta Knight, Greninja, Lucario

A+ : Dedede, Bowser Jr., Lucina, Marth, Pikachu, Toon Link

A- : Bowser, Kirby, Wii Fit Trainer, Link, Fox

B+ : Peach, Sonic, Mr. Game and Watch, ROB, Charizard, Dark Pit

B : Dr. Mario, Pit, Yoshi, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong

B- : Donkey Kong, Ness, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Mario, Samus

C : Little Mac, Ike, Jigglypuff, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mega Man

Everyone pretty much looks viable in this game though, which is why I introduced all of the + and - tiers. I think the difference between, for example, Duck Hunt and Mega Man, is a lot smaller than the difference between Melee Fox and Melee Kirby, or Brawl Meta Knight and Brawl Ganondorf.

Would you mind elaborating?

I don't mean explaining EVERY single character, but just to split up characters based on the tiers provided? I tried my best to try to put what you wrote into the tiers, but I have a feeling I interpreted wrong.

[PM ME MARIANNE ART]

>Greninja

>A+ tier

I greatly approve of this

Carry on

[Djing]

Please explain each character's position.

[Comet]

I don't know the effects of the customized moves, but I'd think a good tier list would have all possible variations of a character's specials ranked individually.

Let's see:

A: DeDeDe, Pikachu, Robin, Mario, Doctor Mario, Zero Suit Samus, Bowser, Meta Knight

B: DHD, R.O.B., Lucario, Dark Pit, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Toon Link, Shulk, Samus, Olimar, G&W, Mii Fighter (fist)

C: Greninja, Palutena, Fox, Bowser Jr, Pit, Ike, Marth, Lucina, Captain Falcon, Link, Sonic, Wario, Yoshi, Pac Man, Ness, Mii Fighter (sword), Captain Falcon, Luigi, Sheik

D: Villager, Zelda, Jigglypuff, Little Mac, Rosalina, Mii Fighter (gun)

F: Mega Man, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer, Ganondorf

I didn't feel like anybody was good enough for an S tier. D3's in A because his projectile seems really good and gives setups to combos off grabs. Greninja's in C because I feel like he has the tools to deal with anything, but doesn't get much off of anything. I don't know what to think of Pac Man... Falco got really nerfed, and I don't see what he has over anybody else. Wii Fit Trainer's in the same boat as Greninja, but not as fast. However, I don't have the game yet, so even I, the one who made this list, would take it with a grain of salt.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Comet

[Jiac]

I think Little Mac should be a little higher since people in Smashboards are saying Airgame is not as good as it used to be in Melee and Brawl. And Little Mac has high priority in his attacks so I don't think he'll be in that low of a tier. But who knows, SSB4 just came out and we know so little, he could truly be that low. He does have a few approaches but most of them are punishable which could justify why he is low.

[euklyd]

lmaoimhotep the only tiering that should be done at this time - if any - is of the five characters in the demo, and only wrt to match-ups amongst themselves

:V

I don't know the effects of the customized moves, but I'd think a good tier list would have all possible variations of a character's specials ranked individually

that would be 256 variations per character
assuming that there are (3 custom options + default) ^ (4 specials) per character
which would be over 10000 positions on the tier list

I'm pretty sure my math is right, although if my assumptions re: # of options are off then I'm totally wrong

[Zkirsche]

It is WAY too early to get an accurate tier list, but I guess it's fun to speculate. I do kinda think we should have the game first though.

I would like to know the justification for:

-Fox in B+

-Rosalina in S

-Samus not in bottom

-Donkey Kong in C and Bowser in B

edit: there's three options for each special so that's actually 3^4(81) not 4^4 Euklyd. I approve of the maths though! It's obviously an absurd amount of characters to tier and that's why we should only consider the best options.

Edited September 14, 2014 by kirsche

[Carter]

It is WAY too early to get an accurate tier list, but I guess it's fun to speculate. I do kinda think we should have the game first though.

I would like to know the justification for:

-Fox in B+

-Rosalina in S

-Samus not in bottom

-Donkey Kong in C

Oops sorry about that!

I didn't make any part of the Tier List, it's just a compilation of the few that actually threw some ideas xD.

I meant to put Fox under A-, unless you think he should be higher...?

Rosalina (I'm assuming) because of Luma. She might become the next Ice Climbers (keep in mind this is a casual saying this).

Samus was buffed a ton, Sakurai said at E3 2014 (could be wrong) was the best at game.

Link: http://youtu.be/edCQDRuL8Dk?t=26m58s

Donkey Kong... I have no idea.

[Florete]

I don't think we can make tier lists anymore, to be honest. Because customizing exists now. So we can make characters better or worse than they are by default. You could just say that the tier lists will be for default builds only, but they won't matter in tournaments that allow customizations.

In all honesty, the pros will find set ups that work best and lists will be based on those. Think of it like Pokemon's tiering system, they're based on the optimum movesets they can have.

That, and even in the case of multiple options being viable based on situation or whatever, there will never be a fighting game such as this where tiering isn't possible so long as the characters are all different. I do think, however, that tiers for this game will change more over time than the Melee and Brawl lists did.

That being said...I'm not at all against the idea of a tier list, but this is really jumping the gun. Most of us have only had a chance to play as 5 characters, if even that, and have only been able to watch the rest. It's like tiering all the characters in an FE game based on the first quarter.

At most this can be considered tier list speculation. "What do you think it will look like?" And in that case, the most I've heard is that Robin and Palutena seem really good. I've even heard from a few people that Palutena could be this game's Meta Knight, but that's likely overreacting.