Civ 5 Draft - Round 2

[AnonymousSpeed]

Barracks

I'm going to be honest, I don't often build barracks. I don't normally go to war either, but either way, am I missing out by not building those?

[XeKr]

(in the mod) With Honor I build them because you get +100% production (double speed) on exp buildings. Also a policy later in Honor gives 2 culture 1 happiness on them. This works out so that if you do full Honor as the starting tree, your satellite cities can skip monuments (go Barracks->food building, I went granary first because I had free monuments from legalism).

I usually don’t build them early on with the other trees (or in unmodded play). If doing some early war with Tradition/Liberty, usually units are better. I’ll build them if there’s enough time for midgame wars, which depends on how hammers are looking, what turn do I hit the military tech of interest and how many units can immediately upgrade, etc.

They’re usually not worth delaying the attack or having another round of units instead. One of the problems I had when trying to learn to war was trying to have everything “prepared” like exp buildings, heroic epic, etc. But each turn the opponent gets stronger and you lose more of the (potential) military tech advantage. Attacking 10 turns earlier is a lot better than marginally stronger units. Actually I usually try to hit with 5-6 composites around turn 50-55, so this is a little late because I went to Writing. Assyria’s UB is pretty strong so that’s okay, but maybe I should have skipped calendar since I had happiness from city states (though would have less gold for upgrades so eh). No iron also sucks because imo the best honor timing attack is upgraded Swordsman.

Later in the game for artillery/planes and stuff you should usually have them, and there should be plenty of time to fit it in.

Edited December 30, 2015 by XeKr

[AnonymousSpeed]

Hm, thanks. It did seem to be like a composite bowmen would be better than a free promotion on my other composite bowmen, and I feel I tend to be late with my attacks, like you say you used to be. I just didn't know if, like, being closer to logistics was needed, or something, so I did want to ask. It's a good tip to have though, thanks. Should come in handy should I need take some cities, which I don't normally do, because I'm not great at wars, but...you got to get better, you know?

[BBM]

I noticed that the Tradition changes haven't been implemented in the mod- is that intentional or did I screw up somewhere?

EDIT: highlights of this game so far: I chose Random map and it ended up being Pangaea. Closest neighbours are England and Japan. In true form Japan has 4 cities each moving successively closer to me and is friendly with me. WAR IS COMING. Unfortunately I had no horses or I would have War Elephanted his ass up. Ethiopia was annoyed that I stole a worker from a city state but then a few turns later they declared friendship with me. I got kind of screwed because I missed both Great Library and Stonehenge by 2 turns... Somehow I'm first in Population despite having only one city atm. Population Growth ftw, at least until I set up more cities. Ethiopia declared friendship with Japan as well bc wynaut and I'm also sending a trade route to Japan, which will probably forestall the war a little bit... but I also need to get it going before Samurais.

Edited December 31, 2015 by BBM

[XeKr]

Tradition didn’t get changed much. Just reverted the order of the policies to the last official patch, so you’re not forced to take oligarchy before legalism, and now Landed elite is +15% and Oligarchy gives free walls instead of the ranged strength.

Anyways, it seems to be working for me, so maybe try reinstall/clean cache etc?

btw Japan is crazy, I'm 2nd in army and he still has 25k more than me (like 40% more army). I probably would have steamrolled if another AI was nearby. But Oda (and Shaka) is like this sometimes. My cities have great food but bad production which is not good for honor. His Discipline Swords take like 10 shots from my composites too so it's hard to fight efficiently. >_>

seem to slowly be breaking him though...

Hm, thanks. It did seem to be like a composite bowmen would be better than a free promotion on my other composite bowmen, and I feel I tend to be late with my attacks, like you say you used to be. I just didn't know if, like, being closer to logistics was needed, or something, so I did want to ask. It's a good tip to have though, thanks. Should come in handy should I need take some cities, which I don't normally do, because I'm not great at wars, but...you got to get better, you know?

I like having a little war myself to mix things up and not just sim-city all day. It doesn't work that well in the regular game (turtling is just more optimal) but I enjoyed trying it. In the mod, it's more encouraged, and I find it fun being proactive.

Certainly takes some practice compared to the usual though.

Edited December 31, 2015 by XeKr

[AnonymousSpeed]

I like having a little war to mix things up and not just sim-city all day. It doesn't work that well in the regular game (turtling is just more optimal) but I enjoyed trying it. In the mod, it's more encouraged, and I find it fun being proactive.

I mean, I like the domestic aspects of Civ more, I like the building libraries and finding places to settle, so, I tend not to war unless people settle where I want to, in which case I try (and usually fail) to drive them out. Recently, though, my composite bowmen rushes have been more successful and clearing unindeally placed cities, even if it was against Brazil...I got them to give me a city with El Dorado, right next to it, too, so I think that's an observatory, which is pretty nice. But, again, it's Brazil, I don't think they're a military power house.

Given who I'm next to this game though, things might be more...interesting...

[spoiler=Starting Location]

Settled on spot, the coast was to far, and while not great, deer is a nice tile. Two luxuries isn't bad, though neither are very good luxuries.

Sent my warrior to explore west, and found some locations I wanted to settle. I even discovered Mount Kilimanjaro and was the first to meet Samarkand, so...thirty gold. Unfortunately, Samarkand is too close to Kilimanjaro for me to settle it.

Near Kilimanjaro was some barbarians, as well as some ruins. The ruins gave me a map, which is meh, but it showed me Assyria to the south of Samarkand. That has me a little worried, you know? Early game warlord is my neighbor, might make expansion west a little dangerous. At the same time though, it's better than letting him settle that land and have a clear path to my capital, right?

Normally I build a scout first, but because Ethiopia, I build a Steele first. This gave me Goddess of the Hunt pretty early. I considered Sacred Waters as well, but...eh, there's a fair bit of deer around me, plus the truffles, the extra food just sounds better, even if I mostly want to settle on rivers.

I had my warrior continue south, around Assyria, where I was second to meet the Vatican. Since I had a pantheon, four faith wasn't all that important, but it can't hurt to have, neither can fifteen gold. That same turn I also opened tradition, since I'm not using the mod and thus there is literally no reason to ever not go tradition.

I got a scout out after the Steele and sent them south, getting a 60 gold ruin and meeting Ghandi. And finding that there are barbarians all up in the woods that surround me. Which sucks. For some reason I opened with researching pottery, despite the Steele meaning that can be delayed a bit, so...yeah, I went with Archery next to try and deal with some barbarian problems, fend them off and stuff. I had a granary in the works, but once Archery finished I put it on hold to get the archer out.

My scout was still pretty close to my capital, I hadn't sent him far yet, so I actually had him go north a bit and pick up a ruin. And reveal barbarians, like, eight tiles from my capital. These ruins sucked, really, though 60 gold wasn't terrible, since I wasn't making any money for a while there. While my warrior was looping back around, I met Austria, and then sent my scout further south.

I met Ur, got 15 gold, and then decided to steal a worker. Ghandi was protecting them, but since he isn't all too violent, unless he had nukes of course, I decided it would be okay. He wasn't even that pissed off, because he offered me a Declaration of Friendship literally four turns later. It turns out he and Austria are on good terms, and turn 44 I made a DoF with them as well. Now we're all friends!

I was building a worker when I hit four pop, but I stopped to get a settler. I didn't want Assyria taking the land (I don't know what their expansion flavor is) and I had just stolen one, so I could delay. Brought the worker back, hooked up my truffles with +1 food, and sent my settler westward. While he was traveling, I finished the worker and decided to build an archer, because...archers.

Finally, I settled my second city, and decided to call this session there. I want to do this in little bits, get other people to provide input, and stuff, see what they have to say about my ameteur playing.

[spoiler=I didn't notice the graphical glitches until post]

Salt and river, therefore it's good.

Working my enhanced truffles is helping my economy quite a bit. In my capital, one worker is hooking up the deer and the other a nice four source of horses, so that should be nice. Haven't chopped anything yet, might for the library or save it for National College. Not really eyeing any wonders or victory conditions at the moment.

Capital Build Order:

Steele -> Scout -> Granary (Stop) -> Archer -> Granary (Finish) -> Worker (Stop) -> Settler -> Worker (Finish) -> Archer (Ongoing)

Research Order:

Pottery -> Archery -> Animal Husbandry -> Trapping -> Mining -> Writing -> Wheel

Policy Order:

Tradition Opener -> Oligarchy -> Legalism -> Landed Elite

As I'm sure the above chart shows. I did not have much in the means of focus or a plan for these first fifty turns, so...yeah. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[XeKr]

I go back and forth actually. Sometimes I get frustrated with AIs double dowing me when all I want to do is build my empire (bribes won’t stop modded ai). But I also get bored pressing next turn with no action. >_>

And dat tundra in your start. :p

Btw Assyria isn’t always so bad because sometimes he spams his Siege Towers which can’t attack units.

Sending Harar a caravan + improving the salt could help it get going. Looking like 2 city NC?

@BBM: Elephants don’t require horses, right? Looking forward to seeing how you deal with Japan.

[AnonymousSpeed]

And dat tundra in your start. :p

Ah, right, forgot about the tundra because I wasn't ever going to work it. But yeah, even better to go with Goddess of the Hunt then, right?

Btw Assyria isn’t always so bad because sometimes he spams his Siege Towers which can’t attack units.

Hm, right...yeah, the AI does have a love of its unique units, though I'd still need units to wall off the cities and, you know, pillaging is pretty annoying.

Sending Harar a caravan + improving the salt could help it get going. Looking like 2 city NC?

Maybe? I was planning on settling another city further down the river first, actually, hopefully having the gold to just buy the library in the city by that point. Which I might, looking at my current gold, if I could get a bit more GPT. I also wanted to settle westwards (and just realized I forgot what east and west where when I typed my little thing up there), but I don't have competition for that land, so...definitely can wait.

Harar is actually not bad, looking at it. Yeah, it had tundra, but also a river, two sheep, two salt, two deer, a fish, plenty of plains...it's not bad.

I admit I am actually pretty bad at getting internal trade routes going, usually because I forget to build granaries in cities without wheat, even if they do have bananas and deer, because...what?

@BBM: Elephants don’t require horses, right? Looking forward to seeing how you deal with Japan.

Nope, neither do Narusan's Elephants (or whatever you call them) and...Horse Archers...

Edited December 31, 2015 by AnonymousSpeed

[BBM]

No, the fact that it got reverted to the old Tradition is what I meant wrt not implementing Tradition changes.

The AIs went crazy and like 5 wars happened. Odo backstabbed Ethiopia and then denounced me like two turns after declaring friendship with me because why not. Ethiopia is holding out though. Odo's southern cities that are beside me have no units in them but my army isn't yet ready so I don't want to declare war. I made a second city but I took too long; Ethiopia and Japan's forward-settling removed most of the good land. I figure I'll just puppet Japan's cities.

France declared friendship with me, but then attacked England, which caused England to denounce me... Then I finally met Portugal and Austria, who are both warmongering even though I thought they're generally peaceful? I was kind of not paying attention to the France vs Portugal/England/Austria war and then Portugal took Paris out of nowhere. Portugal and Austria must have bonded over their hatred of France I guess bc the next turn Portugal and Austria declared friendship. gg France; they've got one city left but yeah.

I accidentally traded the last copy of a lux away and now I'm unhappy. sux. I completed Tradition and got 2 policies in Patronage. Building army.

also ffff I forgot Elephants didn't need horses. They're too shitty now to be useful.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Odo backstabbed Ethiopia

I know who I'm looking out for...

Ah, India, and their weird happiness thing.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

wait are we doing this now?

[BBM]

You don't need to do it now but drafting is finished, so we're starting since we have time.

[XeKr]

Ah, right, forgot about the tundra because I wasn't ever going to work it. But yeah, even better to go with Goddess of the Hunt then, right?

Might run out of good tiles to work (Freedom will be good later). There’s only like 4 fresh water tiles and 2 granary resources? Goddess of the Hunt was a good choice, especially since being Ethiopia guarantees you’ll keep it.

Hm, right...yeah, the AI does have a love of its unique units, though I'd still need units to wall off the cities and, you know, pillaging is pretty annoying.

Scouts are cheap. ^_^

Maybe? I was planning on settling another city further down the river first, actually, hopefully having the gold to just buy the library in the city by that point. Which I might, looking at my current gold, if I could get a bit more GPT. I also wanted to settle westwards (and just realized I forgot what east and west where when I typed my little thing up there), but I don't have competition for that land, so...definitely can wait.

Harar is actually not bad, looking at it. Yeah, it had tundra, but also a river, two sheep, two salt, two deer, a fish, plenty of plains...it's not bad.

Yeah if you can buy the library 3 cities can work well, and having friends will help there. I saw you stopped building settlers so maybe you were done expanding for now. Generally, the earlier the cities get planted the better. The reasons why I would stop building settlers are either it’s unsafe to do so, or if preparing for NC. I found this was one of the biggest differences between how I used to play and how people like Acken/HoF players get low/sub 200 in BNW.

If comparing your and mine turn 53 (broadly, I know maps are different but I don't think your early tiles are any worse than mine. turns should be somewhat comparable early, not so much later when the nerfs kick in), I have 3 cities/3 workers and they already have/almost have granaries so they're growing fast (Cap has library too. Already 50% more science, and getting pop/sci faster). You have 2 cities and the cap has a granary, and Harar won't get it for a long while if you build Library first.

(can ignore happiness/gold/culture because that's mostly CS luck)

I admit I am actually pretty bad at getting internal trade routes going, usually because I forget to build granaries in cities without wheat, even if they do have bananas and deer, because...what?

I value internal trade routes very highly for tradition. 3 food is massive at that point in the game so I build them almost immediately when available. Rough priority is: enough workers to stay happy (usually 1) -> settlers -> granary/caravans -> enough workers -> other stuff.

With the mod it’s a bit different since the base food is nerfed to 2 and it’s pretty necessary to build some more units.

No, the fact that it got reverted to the old Tradition is what I meant wrt not implementing Tradition changes.

I do find this arrangement smoother and far better for mixed policy play. Plus there’s less variance wrt to culture ruins for skipping monument or not.

I beat up Japan, growing now. Update probably when preparing to attack France. Looking like Gatlings since I have a good number of ranged units still and cheap upgrades from honor. Hopefully pick up an idealogy too. Maybe xbows, but I prefer Civil Service much earlier if going Tradition, plus they do like nothing to France’s Musketeers. If I went complete Honor instead of finishing Tradition they would be the way to go.

Edited December 31, 2015 by XeKr

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

alright i'll get on it when i can break away from yazuka 5

[BBM]

ffffff

my computer froze so I shut it off bc I thought I had autosaves turned on. Apparently I didn't. I'm going to have to restart this game. >_>

sigh

tomorrow I'll continue maybe but that was a hit to my motivation.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

ok i started out not by the ocean, which is pretty weird for england but alrighty, i'll try to make it work as the rest of my position is nice along with near by wine.

Edited December 31, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[AnonymousSpeed]

Might run out of good tiles to work (Freedom will be good later). There’s only like 4 fresh water tiles and 2 granary resources? Goddess of the Hunt was a good choice, especially since being Ethiopia guarantees you’ll keep it.

Steele OP. They really do make the civ.

Scouts are cheap. ^_^

Yeah, but...they also don't upgrade into anything, so I don't like to build them except to explore or if it's really an emergency.

Yeah if you can buy the library 3 cities can work well, and having friends will help there. I saw you stopped building settlers so maybe you were done expanding for now. Generally, the earlier the cities get planted the better. The reasons why I would stop building settlers are either it’s unsafe to do so, or if preparing for NC. I found this was one of the biggest differences between how I used to play and how people like Acken/HoF players get low/sub 200 in BNW.

Ah, well, I suppose that's something to learn, eh? Build both settlers right away...I'll do that, probably, finish the archer just because and then make the settler, unless I change my mind when I boot up the game. I'll do that later tonight, play another fifty some turn session.

If comparing your and mine turn 53 (broadly, I know maps are different but I don't think your early tiles are any worse than mine. turns should be somewhat comparable early, not so much later when the nerfs kick in), I have 3 cities/3 workers and they already have/almost have granaries so they're growing fast (Cap has library too. Already 50% more science, and getting pop/sci faster). You have 2 cities and the cap has a granary, and Harar won't get it for a long while if you build Library first.

I value internal trade routes very highly for tradition. 3 food is massive at that point in the game so I build them almost immediately when available. Rough priority is: enough workers to stay happy (usually 1) -> settlers -> granary/caravans -> enough workers -> other stuff.

Hm...I see...I am still learning, I suppose...so...what about units, then? Do you just build them before four pop and work with what you have at that point?

[AnonymousSpeed]

Alright, so, sorry I didn't get this done last year, but hey, better late than never, right?

[spoiler=Let's open with an image of my Capital]

Starting off, I sold Austria an embassy for 35 gold, because...money for libraries. Assyria isn't too pleased with my settling placement, but since I want to settle another city close I tell them to buzz off. Since there's a number of barbarians around, I finish my archer fist, but then it's right on to the second settler.

I meet Japan and France over the next couple of turns, and hook up some horses I sell to Ghandi for 6 GPT. Hook up some wine in preparation of city number three.

There was a barbarian camp to the south of Addis Ababa. I sent my scout and an archer to clear it out. It spawned a spearman, but possibly stupidly I sent my wounded scout to finish off the brute inside it. I really just wanted it gone. Obviously, the spearman killed the scout next turn, which sucks, because it had scouting one, but what can you do? Pulled my archer back, and apparently the spearman went away, or something, because I didn't see it anymore.

I also soften up a barbarian camp near Harar (city number two) and let foreign scouts take it. Whatever, as long as the path is safe.

[spoiler=Found city three on turn 70]

As you can tell from the picture, I didn't have philosophy yet, so it wasn't a big deal that I needed to wait a bit before I had 400 gold. As you can see, my GPT was pretty healthy and I had a good amount, so I was sure I'd make the dough in time. That Siege Tower though...it worried me. I put my warrior on the hill in an attempt to scare it off, or at least be ready if it attacked. I got scared enough to send the archer from my capital to Adwa, just in case.

Get a policy, pick monarchy. Should help with money and happiness and the like.

One of those list things popped up, People with the Pointiest Sticks. I was obviously at the bottom, with 81, less than half of seventh place, Austria, as 180-something. I'm on Immortal, so I don't know quite where that actually means I am, but still, not reassuring. I decide to build an archer in my capital. I could have started on a caravan, but with philosophy coming close to being done, I think squeezing out the archer is better, since I'll have something to show for it and the like before I step on the breaks and start the National College.

Assyria asks to trade embassies. I'm pretty sure he knew where my capital was already, and I wanted to improve relations, so I agreed. Still, after philosophy I start working towards construction for composites.

On turn 78 I hit 402 gold, 400 of which I spent on the library in Adwa. There was one more turn on the archer (thought I'd organized things so it would finish a turn earlier, but I guess the tiles reset or something), so I let it finish before starting on the National College. Since I have no borders to the west and the barbarians are surprisingly passive, I sent said archer east, you know, to scare off Assyria.

Assyria keep putting Swordsman or Siege Towers right outside my borders at this point. When I see the swordsman, I immediately shuffle my units so he can't attack an archer and start praying I don't have to deal with a war, or in general survive. I was a little worried, but since they're sending trade routes to Harar and it is indeed close to their capital, I hope it's just them keeping tabs on their borders.

I hook up the salt in Harar and start building camps on the tundra deer. Thanks to my pantheon, they become actually good tiles. In my capital, I work on farms. I chopped a forest for my settler, turns out it was on a tundra though, so...probably should have left that. Did shave off four turns, though.

Turn 84, a great prophet spawns out of nowhere. I wasn't actually paying attention to that, but...yeah, nice. Protestantism was taken (RIP real life bias), so I picked Judaism instead. I picked the very standard Tithe and Pagodas. I would have taken mosques, but unfortunately, those were taken. An archer finishes in Adwa that turn, so I start on a granary, Harar is also building one (with so many deer, it's a no brainer), so that way I should have granaries in all my cities. Also on turn 84, because man, isn't turn 84 great? I took a lot of notes on it, so apparently; Switch capital to production focus to shave a turn off the national college, unfortunately, it slows growth by two turns, by 11 to 13 isn't really a huge loss or anything in exchange for getting the National College earlier.

At this point, whenever I get eighty gold, I upgrade archers to composites. So...yeah. I did that roughly three times in this session. Somewhere in their I met England, or, more so, they met me. I sort of stopped scouting awhile ago. I did, however, trade embassies with Japan, though only because Ur has a quest for it...didn't even make friendship status, so that was probably dumb. I also renewed my Declaration of Friendship with India.

While Austria, India and I are all buddies, Assyria declares war on England. Assyria is also being a huge jerk to city states, but at this point I don't really want to stick up for them. Perhaps an irrational fear, but still. I should get people to gang up on Assyria, I think...but I don't know who they neighbor, because I neglected proper scouting, so...yeah.

While my capital is working on the National College, I decide to get Harar working on my caravan. It seemed it would be a bit more efficient, get that out a little earlier.

On turn 91, Assyria takes England's capital, which...is unsettling, to say the least.

I renew my Declaration of Friendship with Austria, and see a hand axe around Addis Ababa, so I sent an archer over from Harar.

Ghandi didn't want to buy my horses a second time, so I sold them to Austria for 70 gold and 3 GPT, maybe I could have gotten four, but...eh. When I hook up my second salt, though, Ghandi does by, for 7 GPT and 8 gold flat. It's small, but it helps.

When my archer from before arrives at Addis Ababa, I upgrade it to a composite and get ready to deal with barbs. I start work on a spearman to do just that, deal with barbs, you know...clear the area, and also to have a good melee unit.

I check my status with Assyria, and...apparently we're friendly? I recall that Assyria has a high loyalty flavor, so...maybe I don't need to worry? It's not a Declaration of Friendship, though, and I'm not sure I want one with someone who will inevitably piss off a lot of people. Should I denounce them? City states want it, but...nah, I don't think there's really a benefit. They're sending two caravans to Harar, so I doubt they intend to attack me in the near future. So, I sent my caravan from Harar to Assyria, mostly for the five science per turn, but five gold is nice too. This is turn 98, where I call it a day for this session.

[spoiler=Final Snapshot, hopefully it's not zoomed out too far.]

I know I should have more internal trade routes. Perhaps I should go research more trade route techs, build caravans, do that? Probably. At this point I'm also wondering if I should be building coliseums, shrines, or units. You know, happiness, faith or national security. I'm also researching Theology, as that picture shows. I'm wondering if I should try for a wonder, you know? I don't have one so far, but I don't know if it's really necessary at this point.

Addis Ababa Build Order:

Archer (Finish) -> Settler -> Circus -> Library -> Archer -> National College -> Spearman

Harar Build Order:

Library -> Granary -> Caravan -> Coliseum (Just Started)

Adwa Build Order:

Archer -> Granary

Research Order:

Wheel -> Calendar -> Philosophy -> Masonry -> Construction -> Bronze Working -> Drama and Poetry -> Theology (Hope for a wonder?)

Policy Order:

Monarchy

[XeKr]

Happy new year, all.

ffffff

my computer froze so I shut it off bc I thought I had autosaves turned on. Apparently I didn't. I'm going to have to restart this game. >_>

sigh

tomorrow I'll continue maybe but that was a hit to my motivation.

That sucks. :\

I know the feeling, though I’ve been lucky lately and usually autosave works.

Ah, well, I suppose that's something to learn, eh? Build both settlers right away...I'll do that, probably, finish the archer just because and then make the settler, unless I change my mind when I boot up the game. I'll do that later tonight, play another fifty some turn session.

Hm...I see...I am still learning, I suppose...so...what about units, then? Do you just build them before four pop and work with what you have at that point?

In normal bnw Tradition play I don’t build units unless there are massive barb problems or a barb quest. Usually build/buy an archer/spear in that case. Just rely on scouts and starting warrior to steal workers, escort settlers, etc.

I usually build settlers at 3 pop unless the timing works out that I’m already almost at 4 pop (cows/bison available, spent extra time on shrine/worker, or pop ruins.). Usually build 2 immediately (unless hammers are amazing, like 4 production tiles in range, and enough workers from steals. In that case just build all 3 settlers right then), then granary/caravans to grow a bit. Buy the last, or build it later after caravans are up and buy the library. Sometimes you won’t have the happiness for the last city so it can be delayed a little bit, it’s better to grow the initial cities with caravans/granary and take that time to get more workers and chop forests/hook more luxes and horses/iron.

Typically try to go granary first in satellites. Early food is worth a lot and the ability to feed the cap is very important. There should be time before libraries in this build order, but it depends on production in your cities. Usually Granary first is barely any slower, since you can grow into a few production tiles and plus it’s okay delaying NC for a little bit to grow (instead of stagnate for many turns).

If it’s absolutely necessary I’ll build archers in the cap after settlers and go to construction to upgrade instead of buying the library/settler.

It obviously depends on the map, sometimes you need earlier archers or triremes to clear barbs. Sometimes you want more workers early to hook up salt. Sometimes not enough good spots for 4 cities (but really should try to fit 4 unless there’s just not enough happiness/trading partners). Etcetc

Though I will note on occasion it’s just simpler to play with 2-3 cities, or expand later. It’s just weaker in the sense of less food, production, science, and slower victories. But admittedly, it might be easier if just trying to win on higher difficulties, and it may feel less risky earlygame.

In my particular game this draft I had units from Honor so I was pretty set during the expansion phase.

Re: Assyria in your game. They very rarely will attack you if they’re at war with someone else. Bit of an AI quirk. Bribe if you have to (probably cheaper than unit maintenance, and don’t waste critical early turns building them).

Not sure how much commentary you want on micromanaging. In a bigger picture, I do think internal trade routes (sailing worth the detour, engineering arguable if you have cargos) and workers to hook luxes/horses/iron (later farms. And improve dat salt) are better than happiness buildings. Also buy luxes like Japan’s for 9 gpt if really necessary and you don’t have spares yet. Again units can be skipped if possible, building early granaries is very important to snowball growth.

It’s very important to stay happy so what you did is good, these are just minor optimizations (but they can add up).

I go for Theology if I think I can get Borobudur, otherwise I usually go for Civil Service first with tradition.

Edited January 1, 2016 by XeKr

[BBM]

so I started again, King, Quick, Random map. Ended up being continents with Portugal above me, England below me, France to the right of Portugal and Asyria to the left of England. As seems to be a recurring theme due to me not making cities fast enough, I got forward settled and ended up with only one additional city. I built the Great Library in Delhi, which was probably not worth it but YOLO. I had pearls, so I got a religion pretty easily with Tears of the Gods and Hagia Sophia. (too lazy to rename Hinduism) and spread it entirely to France and partly to England. I also got the Great Mosque of Djenne and later the Colossus. Early on Portugal declared friendship, but then the turn after I made my second city they got mad and denounced me. England I knew didn't like me bc I was too close to them, so I was (slowly) building up my army amid the wonder-whoring. I was going to go for Portugal first with my War Elephant and Swordsman army because they had a much weaker army. But a few turns before, they declared war on me. I was like "whatever", and then the next turn, England and France both declared war on me. Not surprised about England but France took me by surprise.

England has a lot of Longbowmen so this is going to be interesting. Not too worried about Portugal... we'll see about France.

[Shin]

The Adventure of Queen Shin of Portugal!

Prince difficulty, standard pace, let's go! My start seems pretty alright, there's cows and rocks... and more rocks! I find Ethiopia very quickly. Hopefully I can outdo them or maybe even kill them! France and Assyria aren't too far away. There's a lot of jungle, so I think we might be on a big continent.

I make the Great Library! Then the Pyramids! Then Stonehenge! I settle another city right next to Ethiopia, taking some elephants and cotton for myself! I keep at it with stuff, the Colossus is also mine! After making so much stuff, I form the best Portugese religion ever. Ronaldoism!

Gandhi's pretty near by too. After finishing Liberty I move onto Commerce, gotta get that dosh rolling! Things are going pretty well, although France and Ethiopia start fighting. If Gandhi's telling me to beat up France, there's a problem!

France start taking up loads of the map, so together with my bro Gandhi, I liberate a captured Ethiopian city! Well, for a bit, Napoleon takes it back after he offers me swag for peace. Gandhi starts trying to get in on my wonder making and kinda tries to steal tech! I'm too smart for him and my agent kills his! You know it's bad when Gandhi's taking over the continent.

Napoleon's gotten really rapey, literally the entire world is asking me to help them fight him! After saving Ethiopia's city again, I claim it for myself and then take Troyes! It's pretty smooth sailing for the industrial era, I'm far enough ahead for it to not really matter. I continue along making various thingies. Everyone else seems to want Autocracy. Joke's on them, Freedom isn't optional! Assyria gets murdered by France and India separately, it's a shame really, I was influential on them.

It goes on until the 2000's, I'm starting to get influential on most people now. However, that's not stylish enough, with my diplomats I manage to buy World Leader votes from England, Japan and France by offering them nice things. I build nukes because I can and watch as they all fear my superior weapons... whilst listening to the finest Portugese disco.

In 2030, Queen Shin of Portugal is elected supreme ruler of the world!

Final Score - 2223, 1st in all demographics except Approval, which bombed after I sold my resources for votes. Queen Doge Shin supreme!

I've never won by Diplomacy before, I've only ever won by score and culture. It's an interesting playstyle, but it essentially needs you to get loads of science and be rich enough to buy all the city states into liking you. I'm pretty OK at combat, it would have sucked if I'd gotten attacked early.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/361777772317628357/9DD675843127C57DB9019AF96DEF1647970EB999/

game is going good, just built oracle with a great engie, tho i'm on a small island and i'm not sure if i should send a scout to explore Portugal's area or not.

also bullied Austria so they wouldn't put a city near my borders, burnt down their only other city because why not, it had nothing useful or barely anything built.

[AnonymousSpeed]

In normal bnw Tradition play I don’t build units unless there are massive barb problems or a barb quest. Usually build/buy an archer/spear in that case. Just rely on scouts and starting warrior to steal workers, escort settlers, etc.

Hm....good to know. It's all very helpful advice you've given, actually. I'll keep it in mind when playing future games and, or course, this one. Unfortunately, as school has picked back up for me, I don't think I'll be updating until the weekend. Again though, very good stuff to know.

Re: Assyria in your game. They very rarely will attack you if they’re at war with someone else. Bit of an AI quirk. Bribe if you have to (probably cheaper than unit maintenance, and don’t waste critical early turns building them).

Well...I guess I need to bribe them to attack before they have a chance to move on me, then. That way I can go back to my Steele building. and hopefully round out my empire's lands a bit. I have the room to the west to settle two more cities or so, and I plan to do that as quickly as possible so they can be of some use. Gotta work on timely expansion.

[XeKr]

@BBM: AI is a lot more aggressive if you’re using the mod. I like it because one can’t turtle with no units like usual. Almost as psycho as G&K, consequently, but usually there a reason like land dispute, etc, and there’s some ways to play around it. I’ve been playing a few other games in v4 and there seems to be less random dows/backstabs than before and have had a few peaceful games too (until industrial/modern). Sometimes though this involves “fake” wars while agreeing to team up against or with certain far off AIs.

Update time. I admit I’ve been distracted by some other games and life so not totally sure when I can finish. <_<

[spoiler=Oda is quite bloodthirsty]

2nd in army, down by 24k in army score.

[spoiler=Whittled]

Eventually pewpew shot them down. A decent amount of that score was caught up in catapults too, which are fast to clean up with horses.

Burned one of Oda’s cities, took 2 others (lots of fish/crabs for growth though no wonders), liberated Kabul. Started to stabilize and grow. Had happiness from city-states and such.

[spoiler=ok lizzy]

I was thinking of settling down there, but it would have to be coastal for the fish. It would be the only nearby coastal, and England is on the same coast nearby, so that feels unsafe. It turns out Elizabeth was eyeing that area anyways. I decided to settle to the west to fill in the space toward France. I forgot the weird way Tradition finisher works (only applied to 4 cities when the policy is taken, including conquered cities, unlike legalism) so the new city only has a free monument sadly.

[spoiler=ok nappy]

Unfortunately he dropped a city taking the Furs just before I could settle, but I later got Furs elsewhere (was debating whether to general it). The city still ends up being a nice river/mountain, though happiness is going to contrain the growth for a while.

[spoiler=oops]

Oh I didn’t actually see that, the AI does tend to drop more academies. That plus Kilimanjaro means I probably should have kept Kabul but eh.

Anyways, basically just grew a lot, built lots of stuff. Maybe autopiloted a little too much but oh well. Eventually ran into some happiness problems since England and Portugal were taking my city states. Had to spend a decent amount of gold to keep them, especially since I made some mistakes likes sending the wrong city-states caravans for quests. >_>

[spoiler=machu pichu]

This really helped. It’s nice for wider empires and to fund upgrades/cs. Sometimes it doesn’t go until later if the AI doesn’t have good mountain cities. Also built Statue of Zeus in Kyoto for a complicated chain of CS quests. Got dyes -> gems -> furs/something for like 6 CS friends/allies. Maybe worth investing a bit into Patronage later if there’s enough culture.

[spoiler=Religion Spread mod]

I want Ethiopia’s religion (blue on this map, it has Temple happiness and Jesuit Education) and gave him open borders to spread it, but Elizabeth is spamming her pointless religion (vanilla yellowish) on me. Both she and Portugal (brown) took Piety, so their religions are super strong. I suppose it doesn’t help Ethiopia is getting crushed by France.

At least there’s some happiness from Gardens, sigh.

[spoiler=overview turn 167]

Techs: Horseback riding -> Math -> Philosophy -> Education -> Printing Press -> Industrialization

Needed Horses for a little boost against Japan’s swordsman. Only built 1 Siege tower, but it did speed up the conquest considerably. Stole with UA a bunch of lower techs and Optics, Japan already had Metal Casting (his capital had a Workshop when I took it). Steel would have been really scary, so it’s good we finished him off in time.

Founded the world congress and proposed to embargo Ethiopia for some diplo points. Went for and got Leaning Tower. Engineered Big Ben.

Policies: Landed Elite -> Monarchy -> finish Tradition (with Oracle) -> Barracks Culture/Happiness in Honor -> Discipline -> Commerce -> Monument happiness/Workshop happiness/Factory science in Order.

Tried for Oracle to get the free aqueducts. It was pretty late and risky, but managed it. This did delay National College by a lot, so it was turn like 110, just before Education when it was done. But it otherwise would have taken ~20 turns to get the finisher. So either spend production on aqueducts for 10 turns of growth before the free ones, or withstand 20 turns of no-aqueduct growth. Both seem inefficient. I probably should have built less units and went philosophy earlier, maybe even worked the Library specialist earlier since it was built so early. But better overkill than failing to beat Japan.

Still not terrible tech pace, considering (also had a lot of the lower techs which I usually don’t when going Tradition and toward Education). Though a few runaways are appearing, Portugal took out India while France/Austria teamed up on Ethiopia. Hopefully can deal with France and then Austria/England soon (who doesn’t like me) as they’re nearby, but Portugal is way on the other side of the map. Actually they’re teching really well this particular game, I’ve had a few other demigod games about this pace or slower.

Potentially I could have attacked France earlier. I saw he didn’t have very advanced units when I was ending my war with Japan (he actually joined in), but I wasn’t sure how close he was to medieval units, and especially his UU. (if he beelined it, he was close, judging by the number of techs he had and the trade route science)

England offered to team up against France so agreed since Gatling timing was around then. Did some preparing and got a few factories up. Build one in 5 turns in the capital and bought 2 more in my newest planted city and Nimrud the guild city. Actually forgot to buy one a turn before capital finished, and Portugal snuck in Autocracy on that turn. Following her into Autocracy would be decent with Mobilization buying + Big Ben, but the happiness policies are pretty far off. Have some roads building to city states to hopefully grab them back, but it’s hard to keep Vilinius and Quebec City from England/Austria and the delay makes the empire very unhappy. Decided to go Order and grab the factory policy fast since a policy was coming. Still don’t have Honor finisher, but so far France doesn’t have too many units so it’s fairly okay. Will like it for the next wars, definitely.

Portugal/Austria do have decent tourism which is something to watch for. My culture is okay from Barracks culture and a few great works. Probably should be bulbing writers but I have the slots already from Royal Libraries so eh, feelsbad to not use them. It’s helping a bit to expand culture borders, actually, especially in Japan’s cities. Again a bit too much autopilot so I didn’t even try to time Rationalism in industrial. It’s going to be very delayed since we still need to finish Honor, and went a bit into order first.

Edited January 7, 2016 by XeKr

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Prince is officially too easy for me if i know the civ like the back of my hand, I'll do King for further stuff like that.

summery of other powers

France jobbed before i could even meet them, insert french jokes here *is it just me or does this seem to happen alot with france?*

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/361778221400624763/AF5A169933EB66E6C41F2F249B5493CBD2BD46FD/

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/361778221400624867/CFB2FF842ACFC2EE64E440D4FEEB3EE4B66F0172/

these sum up Assyria and Japan's achievements quite well too.

Austria sat around and got bullied by everyone

Portugal actually did pretty well until the late game, where they didn't do anything and noone cared about them

Ghandi was a madman that took over the most land (without nukes!)

Ethiopia was my best bro threw out the entire thing, tho him and ghandi were always planning on backstabbing each other after we took out Assyria and Japan.

overall pretty gud.

Edited January 8, 2016 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai