Guitar Mafia - Game Over

[#HBC Larsa]

Alright, I'm a little out of my element here so bear with me as I adjust my bearings.

2.] Larsa's insistence on responding to every single problem with him concerns me. Larsa, why are you so focused on defending yourself here as opposed to looking for scum? I am reading page 2 and see you swatting flies. You are all over the place with your explanation of Poly's claim bothering you as well, and it is rather gross that much of your focus happens to be on your first critic, Refa.

Different setting, making sure I cover all of my basis and don't leave any question unanswered since these people are new to me. If I didn't address the problem it open all sorts of WIFOM and other factors of me being arrogant, etc for not answering their scrutiny. It's really not all over the place either, it just takes me post after post of reiteration to make my point completely known. I thought I could concisely explain, but it ended up having to be expounded on again and again. I think that's partly due to the pace of yesterday, and people asking the same questions without looking for the answer. Of course I'm gonna swat my flies also, if I leave em there and unanswered, it derails town later due to me being absolved to push what I beleive through. I think you're thinking it's more than it really is due to the pace at which this game has been played and you not being used to it. That was all within a pretty small time frame, and then further moved to my qualms with Mancer and later Dewound.

Also, have you read past the first few pages? I haven't mentioned Refa since he shifted something at me, nor was my vote ever on him. Appears to me you skimmed pretty hard and missed where my focus was. I guess I can excuse that due to your work johns, but misrepresenting my reads is quite annoying. I responded the way I did to Refa to bait a response to see what stance he'd take, as I've said. That's also stated twice before this. I really don't see your issue really, both of what you claim to find wrong with me is skewed information. Your question does exactly what you seem to be claiming you don't want me to do... so what's the motive there?

@Larsa: My post talking about the miller claim is to tell you why town miller would just claim off the start. I did not say that there's a possibility of a gambit because when lynching players, town would ignore the miller claim and scum hunt as per normal. Scum doesn't really benefit much from such a gambit since it doesn't really clear them as town.

It doesn't clear them no, but think of the benefit it does have... If millers are a commonality here, and as you say, you ignore the claim and continue on. Wouldn't the make it all the more perfect for a gambit? They get to oust themselves as a miller, and continue on unpressured and play the game as they would, however with the back up upon a guilty that they're just a miller. It's a failsafe and diverts follow the cop on that read. I'm just pointing out to you the why it would work in this scenario from what I've seen. Scum have to improvise sometimes and take some gambles that are high risk-high reward. While I do not know Poly's meta, I do see the distinct possibility of gambits where they are applicable. Let me ask you this, when past millers have claimed in D1 in games here, has it been in there first post into the game? Just curious.

okay I missed that somehow even though it got posted twice...

but really it doesn't change my points against him because he still doesn't have any real content and I don't know what he really thinks about dewound either after reading that post

As for him mudslinging Refa, it's just a lot of little remarks embedded throughout his posts that still don't commit to a Refa scumread, like him saying Refa is hellbent on attacking him with no grounds, or like saying Refa is chainsaw defending Poly.

Read the thread. I'm not responding to your same posts over and over again. To be clear though, If I had a scum read on Refa I would say so. There is NO Refa scum read. I was waiting to gauge his responses. The implication is for a response, you're tunneling a remark to gauge something that I did not even say this is scummy, or break down why. You're missing everything I say trying to tunnel and interpret my motive for doing things. Omega asked why I keep swatting flies, because I keep dealing with the same stupid comments that are needlessly dredged up over and over while they hold no merit. You're misrepresenting information terribly.

Also, I aded this in after I finished my post, I DON'T throw my vote around. I vote when it's a lynch target I want for that Day. If I need to vote in every post for it to amount to content to you, please let me know. I wasn't aware asking questions, and bettering reads wasn't producing content... I just do not AT ALL see what you're going on about.

to be fair larsa DID unvote after the votals

can you go into more detail regarding larsa mudslinging refa?

Also note my vote was NEVER on Refa. Soemthing he's tunneling like a damn prairie dog. And there was no mudslinging...where he comes up with that, idk. Gauging a response by trying to get a rise out of someone = mudslinging now. Lol.

This is going to be a long and ridiculous game at this rate if someone can't agree with a small consensus without being a 'hipster.'

There is not much weight beyond the sole impression that I get of how he has handled Mancer, which I literally kept reading his 'I'm comfortable with this until he produces more content' line and I just sat there and felt a migraine coming on with someone sitting on someone like mancer where, again, admits that there isn't shit to go on. It is holding Mancer himself into a standard that will be never fulfilled and looks like he had no reason to be there in the first place. I wanted to keep this to myself for the sake of reactions, but I am forced to bust out about what I felt about it in general, and that honestly irritates me.

I just don't see the association you're claiming at all. I also don't see the problem with what you're saying your issue is with him, that's a town thing to do...

[#HBC Larsa]

In SF Mafia, we see it as uncommitment to a scumread. If you find someone scummy, why not vote them? Why wait so long?

Ahhh, so THIS is where it's coming from. To be fair, this is indicative of nothing. Administering the proper amount of information and substantiation to your case before you vote, is pro-town. Throwing down a vote before you've expounded on anything can just leave you backtracking a lot, which helps no one becuase it makes your paper trail more erratic and gives others more ammunition to fire at you for being wishy washy and the like. There's a clear disconnect from the mafia I'm used to playing, and the system here. So excuse me if it takes me a while to adjust into the game.

[#HBC dewound]

I'm sorry, but what you felt is too subjective to be taken objectively in the game's context. You -feel- that Mancer is town, but do you have any other objective basis for it? I assume not, since you haven't shown any. So, your Mancer read seems shallow and weak.

I'm not sure if I should take your reluctancy to vote me as bad or not. In SF Mafia, we see it as uncommitment to a scumread. If you find someone scummy, why not vote them? Why wait so long?

I suppose I do, if we're speaking objective in the sense of what they said specifically and how I feel about them in general, I rather liked his #59 in particular and didn't feel he was cracking under pressure like everyone else was stating he was. I see a lot of Mancer in myself so perhaps it's just inherent that I town-read those behaviors because he does a lot of what I would do as town.

[#HBC dewound]

I just don't see the association you're claiming at all. I also don't see the problem with what you're saying your issue is with him, that's a town thing to do...

Oh? In what way is it town? I don't think it's townie to instantly make a judgment call as a double standard by implying that it's not really a judgment call until they 'give more content.' I would say that this is quite different for me because Rapier has been backing it up so at this point I almost feel reluctant in backing down from Rapier as he's been proving my initial assumptions of him wrong.

[#HBC dewound]

I have a question to anyone who has decided to jump from me to Mancer: do you still scum read Mancer and shifting priority, or do you think that he shouldn't be the lynch anymore?

[Donald Trump]

im actually just a part of the international lynch mob and have a deep craving for putting a noose around whoever's throat is in reach.

[Vhaltz]

Votals

MancerNecro (3): Prims, Rapier, Polydeuces

dewound (3): Gorf, BBM, Omega
Randa (2): Psych
HBC Larsa (1): Refa
Psych (1): Randa

Rapier (2): Mancer, dewound

Not voting (1): EvilG

With 13 alive it takes 7 to hammer. Phase ends in 51~ hours. (Countdown.)

Edited October 11, 2014 by Vhaltz

[#HBC Larsa]

Oh? In what way is it town? I don't think it's townie to instantly make a judgment call as a double standard by implying that it's not really a judgment call until they 'give more content.' I would say that this is quite different for me because Rapier has been backing it up so at this point I almost feel reluctant in backing down from Rapier as he's been proving my initial assumptions of him wrong.

It seemed as just a basis of his read that he wanted to see more before he made a full opinion, is that really so foreign? I saw nothing wrong with it, and he's read town to me.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

1.]

He's [Rapier] done nothing more than explain his position WRT voting me and simultaneously attacking and defending Randa. All these pings Rapier as scum.##Unvote: Randa, ##Vote: Rapier

Can you elaborate on the bolded and put it into perspective as to why he is likelier to be scum for this? How do you think a TownRapier would treat a slot like Randa? Also, I find it kind of weird that you would jump on him for something he might do instead of waiting it out and gauging for if he reached for the scummy scenario. I do not find this scummy in itself, but I'm reading this like you showed your hand a little too quick and don't see how you can get more out of this vote. It makes me question what you're trying to accomplish.

2.] Dewound vs. Rapier potentially being written off as a meta clash is discouraging and has knocked the wind out of my sails. I am currently weighing if I should stick to my initial dislike or if I should switch to an active lurker. I actually see what dewound meant by Refa throwing out a flimsy townread on Prims for who knows why.

3.] I feel better about Larsa on a reread. He had a case of diarrhea mouth, but as convoluted as his explanation was I see a logical trail that does not involve manipulating those questioning him.

4.] I forgot that EvilG was in this game.

5.] Gorf, who is Town? Is Rapier still null for you?

[Prims]

Deathbound feels from Refa, aka when he was scum in Persona 4 Anonymafia

there are so many inaccuracies in this sentence I don't even know where to begin

real post later

[Donald Trump]

@omega

oh shit @ #4, i didnt even realize he was a thing till your post n i saw that he was voting nobody. id be down to swing the vote to em if he doesnt get in thread n do stuff.

@ #5 atm bbm larsa and you strike me as town. prims n rapier nulltown.

[Refa]

Off to the movies and dinner, will announce my return and make a post then (was working on one now but ugh WHATEVER).

[Prims]

Alright, been looking over the content since I stopped posting.

My result: dewound is mafia.

"Waiting for scum" is understandable when most of the game hasn't posted, but it wasn't the case when dewound made his empty post. Instead he had to be pressed several times to out and focus on his Rapier read which he made sound like something he genuinely believed in... and if he did there was no reason for him to "wait and see". Why not make his Rapier suspicion clear from the beginning? Probably because it's not real and he's trying to mimic a fluid town process but can't and just ends up being Weird.

##Unvote

##Vote: dewound

Larsa is still posting a lot of words about himself but not many clear suspicions. All his interactions with the person he's voting are just back and forth about the Miller claim and his vote seems really weak at this point. Larsa, what do you think of my spat with dewound and the rising pressure on him from people like Gorf and Omega?

Mancer's post is better but I think he's on the wrong track; I am townreading Rapier despite his ability to forget all details of games from like a month ago. If you read his posts where he talks about his methods he's really transparent despite being aggressive - he's town trying to make something out of nothing. The biggest problem here though is that I'm not sure I can see either of them as dewound's scumbuddy tbh.

After dewound and Larsa/Refa (<- don't think both of these cane be scum) I'd probably go for Psych/Randa. Randa saying he couldn't draw conclusions from Mancer and Rapier's posts was questionable when Rapier had clear opinions. Want him to elaborate on the struggle with Rapier's posts.

im actually just a part of the international lynch mob and have a deep craving for putting a noose around whoever's throat is in reach.

same

2.] Dewound vs. Rapier potentially being written off as a meta clash is discouraging and has knocked the wind out of my sails. I am currently weighing if I should stick to my initial dislike or if I should switch to an active lurker. I actually see what dewound meant by Refa throwing out a flimsy townread on Prims for who knows why.

it actually isn't meta clash - the "I don't need to vote constantly" is, but the part where dewound never votes Rapier and plays wait-and-see despite having a reasonable case all laid out shows lack of town intent

[Rapier]

there are so many inaccuracies in this sentence I don't even know where to begin

real post later

After thinking more about it, I realize I exaggerated. However, insisting on the case against Larsa during RVS is a waste of time that could be spent scumhunting with basis more credible than a RVS joke vote. That's my point.

I find kind of weird that you would jump on him for something he might do instead of waiting it out and gauging for if he reached for the scummy scenario. I do not find this scummy in itself, but I'm reading this like you showed your hand a little too quick and don't see how you can get more out of this vote. It makes me question what you're trying to accomplish.

I'm impressed that you managed to sum my rebuttal against Mancer in one line. Makes it simpler, hehe. '^^

I suppose I do, if we're speaking objective in the sense of what they said specifically and how I feel about them in general, I rather liked his #59 in particular and didn't feel he was cracking under pressure like everyone else was stating he was. I see a lot of Mancer in myself so perhaps it's just inherent that I town-read those behaviors because he does a lot of what I would do as town.

I thought your reluctancy to vote was based on clashing metas, but it seems it isn't. You are also intentionally being reluctant to townreading Mancer, your "perhaps" makes it explicit. If you are uncertain of your reasons why Mancer is town and admits they are mostly part of how you feel about him, how can you state that you believe he is townie or go as far as to defend him? Your post #194 tells us that you're not even sure of your case on me. I wonder, are you really scumhunting or deliberately pretending to scumhunt? Your lack of assertiveness on your reads is very odd.

[#HBC dewound]

Alright, been looking over the content since I stopped posting.

My result: dewound is mafia.

"Waiting for scum" is understandable when most of the game hasn't posted, but it wasn't the case when dewound made his empty post. Instead he had to be pressed several times to out and focus on his Rapier read which he made sound like something he genuinely believed in... and if he did there was no reason for him to "wait and see". Why not make his Rapier suspicion clear from the beginning? Probably because it's not real and he's trying to mimic a fluid town process but can't and just ends up being Weird.

When you say "waiting for scum", do you mean Rapier? He was the only person who has said something like this. I had to be pressed? I practically gave it to you on a silver platter, willingly. There was no pushing or prodding needing to be done, though I will admit I wanted to keep it to myself until I actually heard from Rapier himself. I..didn't make it clear? You sure you're reading the right game? I didn't blatantly say 'guys I think Rapier is scum' immediately but I would think that anyone with a brain could realize that I was trying to play it off of Rapier's responses before I came to the conclusion, but I felt pressured to just outright say it and then spent like a whole page trying to tell people why it is.

[#HBC dewound]

I thought your reluctancy to vote was based on clashing metas, but it seems it isn't. You are also intentionally being reluctant to townreading Mancer, your "perhaps" makes it explicit. If you are uncertain of your reasons why Mancer is town and admits they are mostly part of how you feel about him, how can you state that you believe he is townie or go as far as to defend him? Your post #194 tells us that you're not even sure of your case on me. I wonder, are you really scumhunting or deliberately pretending to scumhunt? Your lack of assertiveness on your reads is very odd.

Huh? I don't understand where you came to the conclusion that I'm reluctant to town-read Mancer? You're looking far too into my wording here if you think me saying 'perhaps' there is somehow worse if I said something like 'probably' or even 'possibly.' I will admit that I have been feeling less confident on you, and would say if I were to jump off you I would look more towards Refa/Gorf, as I'm almost ready to submit that I was wrong about you initially as I feel I'm becoming a broken record.

[Prims]

After thinking more about it, I realize I exaggerated.

if calling BBM "Refa" and SMT mafia "Persona 4 mafia" are exaggerations, then yeah

[Prims]

dewound at this point I would suggest spending less time talking about doing things and more time actually doing them.

[#HBC dewound]

dewound at this point I would suggest spending less time talking about doing things and more time actually doing them.

Well who knows, maybe if I do too much I'll be trying too hard to be town also according to you?

[Prims]

I could go on about why I think your handled your Rapier case awkwardly anyway - evidently you were willing to direct discussion toward him given that you questioned Gorf but like several posts after jumping in the thread - but for now I want to see you produce rather than defend, otherwise I don't see this read going anywhere.

[#HBC dewound]

Well, Refa/Gorf both seem too complacent for my taste, Gorf especially. I didn't really care to go into it because I really wanted to deal with the whole Rapier thing, but it sort of dealt with itself. My read on Gorf can be summarized that he dropped Mancer immediately over an issue I had with not liking mancer, but that read on Mancer never went anywhere. I would think that both a townie and Gorf himself would delve more into it instead of dropping it off completely.

Refa looks like either a slow thinker or the type of scum who promises to post content but never gets around to it.

[Refa]

Hi, I'm back (I actually didn't go out to eat dinner). If I don't make a fucking amazing post in a few hours, turbolynch me or something.

[Rapier]

if calling BBM "Refa" and SMT mafia "Persona 4 mafia" are exaggerations, then yeah

... I didn't even read that game, come on.

Huh? I don't understand where you came to the conclusion that I'm reluctant to town-read Mancer? You're looking far too into my wording here if you think me saying 'perhaps' there is somehow worse if I said something like 'probably' or even 'possibly.' I will admit that I have been feeling less confident on you, and would say if I were to jump off you I would look more towards Refa/Gorf, as I'm almost ready to submit that I was wrong about you initially as I feel I'm becoming a broken record.

Why this sudden agreement with my position? It feels strange, since you spent a lot of posts talking about my playstyle only to conclude that I am not such a big deal. Excuse me if I missed something along the way.

[#HBC Larsa]

@Prims: Is it necessary that all thought process be outward? JW. My suspicions should be pretty easy to follow. Dewound>Mancer Who I've directed my flak towards, eh?

Anyways, I don't feel well, have had a migraine since earlier in the day. Also, Prims. I wasn't voting anyone. That was due to me waiting to see how Dewound panned out, but he can die for sure.

##Vote: Dewound

I'll be back tomorrow sometime when I feel better.

[#HBC dewound]

Breaking down this horrible wagon if I can see it. Sorry if the way we see things don't mesh but you're really on the wrong track and I simply don't want to deal with arguing about myself all the damn time. I'm Steve Vai, Town role-blocker/enabler. I don't know what the enabling explictly does nor have I asked, but I have been told by the mod that I can give people 'compensation', which must play a part in enabling someone's role to work or something like that?

If you want to lynch me still despite this, then at least give me time to fully post my thoughts.