Road to Smash Wii U Tourney (Smash 3DS tournament)

[Knife]

Hey.

This is a special tournament held to say bye to Smash 3DS, what with the Wii U one coming out soon. Not saying there will be no more tournaments for 3DS after this, but there sure as hell will be less.

Here's what we got: a Swiss tournament with no entrant cap and much more lenient round deadlines. Kinda like the olden days. Though, trust me I do not have nostalgia goggles on, the competitive scene here has improved a lot since back in those days when we all sucked.

I'm trying this on Challonge for the first time. Swiss can be a bit complicated, so here's the story:

Each match will be 2 stocks, 6 minutes, first to 3 wins. Scores do count since each one gets added to your Swiss points. So losing 3-2 still adds two points for the loser. Getting 3-0 gets no points for loser. The winner of a round always gets 3 points. Though the winner should try to 3-0 because it helps them in overall rankings. Max points for any participant is 12. There are 4 rounds of Swiss, each round being open for 2 days. After the 4th round ends, top cut round begins. The number of people in top cut depends on the number of total entrants (more participants, bigger top cut!), but is 4 people at minimum.

Don't sweat the complicated shit though, just know that winning=good. Losing by 3-2 is much better than losing 3-0. Overall rankings will be posted at the end of round 4. Rankings also factor in opponent strength. If you lose to the guy who lost against everyone else, but you end up winning every other round, it still hurts your overall ranking a lot. If you lost against someone who ends up doing very well overall, but you kick ass in most rounds after you could still make top cut. Technical wins (other player forfeits/is inactive) will get the winner an automatic 3-0.

Previewing rounds:

By allowing preview rounds, I'm allowing you to see who you're playing the next round. So for example when round 1 starts, you can also see who your round 2 opponent is. You can even play your match early if you want. This is only possible in a Swiss tournament as all rounds that aren't top cut will be random pairings. So you basically have 4 days to play your rounds instead of 2. You can only preview 1 round ahead though to keep the suspense going!

Holding matches:

Through a mutual agreement (Gentlemen's clause), two opponents may decide to "hold" off on a match even past the round's deadline without penalty. So if two opponents in round 1 can't fight on 11/2, 11/3, 11/4, 11/5 but 11/6 (beginning of round 3) works perfectly for them, that's totally cool. Be careful about "holding" too many matches though since Swiss rounds must end when Round 4 ends. Any "held" matches that haven't taken place by then will get both competitors 0-0. There's also no guarantee that you will be able to hold your match since your opponent could easily say "I was available, you were not, so screw you I'm taking the win". You must keep the TO (me) informed of held matches as well as when your intent is to play. Round 4 ends on a Sunday, so you should be able to find a time to play assuming weekends are not a problem.

Rankings:

First off, points are the most important thing when it comes to rankings. As you know, points are equal to the number of games (not rounds) you won. Someone with 10 points will always rank higher than someone with 9. However, it is completely possible (as in, it will happen) that two participants have the same number of points. Who ranks higher then? At that point, two factors come into play; your win percentage and your opponents' win percentage. Your win percentage is simply:

(number of games won ÷ number of games played)

Your opponents' win percentage is:

(win percentage of all opponents combined ÷ number of opponents)

Technical wins do not count as anything (as in doesn't get added to games won or played). They neither help or hurt. Does however cause your other games to weigh more on your percentages.

These two percentages add together to help determine your ranking. What does this mean? You better try to win all your matches because allowing even 1 win for your opponents hurts your win percentage. Though this somewhat balances out because if you played someone good and your score was close, it is likely your opponent will do well against other players and raise your opponents' win percentage.

Custom moves allowed, custom equipment no.

Stage list:

-Battlefield

-Final Destination

-Omega anything (except Pac-Maze)

-Arena Ferox

-Yoshi's Island

-Prism Tower

Schedule:

11/2/14 (Sunday, Monday) - Round 1 begins

11/4/14 (Tuesday, Wednesday) - Round 2 begins

11/6/14 (Thursday, Friday) - Round 3 begins

11/8/14 (Saturday, Sunday) Round 4 begins

11/10/14 (Monday, Tuesday) - Top cut semifinals begins

11/12/14 (Wednesday, Thursday) - Top cut final begins

Prize:

https://club.nintendo.com/rewards-details/a/45108.do

1st place gets this 3 set poster collection of Smash 4 newcomers, or something of equivalent value to 700 coins if its not available at the end of the tournament. You're gonna have to be ok with me knowing your address though since I gotta ship it to you.

Brackets be here:

http://challonge.com/roadtosmash

Round 1 Pairings (ends on Monday 11/3)

-Knife vs. DodgeDusk (Knife won 3-0)

-Void vs. Elieson (Void won 3-0)

-Gemma vs. Febro (Febro won 3-1)

-Raven bye bye (3)

-General Horace vs. Red Fox (Red Fox won 3-2)

Round 2 Pairings (ends on Wednesday 11/5)

-DodgeDusk vs. Void (Void won 3-0)

-Raven vs. Febro (Febro won 3-0)

-Gemma bye bye (3)

-General Horace vs. Elieson (General Horace won 3-1)

-Red Fox vs. Knife (Red Fox won 3-2)

Round 3 Pairings (ends on Friday 11/7)

-Febro bye bye (3)

-DodgeDusk vs. General Horace (DodgeDusk won 3-1)

-Raven vs. Knife (Knife won 3-0)

-Gemma vs. Elieson (Gemma won 3-1)

-Red Fox vs. Void (Red Fox won 3-2)

Round 4 Pairings (ends on Sunday 11/9)

-Gemma vs. Raven (Gemma won 3-2)

-Knife vs. General Horace (Knife won 3-0)

-DodgeDusk vs. Elieson (DodgeDusk won 3-1)

-Febro vs. Red Fox (3-0)

-Void bye bye (3)

Swiss Results

-1st: Febro (12 points, 90% win rate, 41% opp. win rate)

-2nd: Knife (11 points, 79% win rate, 37% opp. win rate)

-3rd: Void (11 points, 73% win rate, 38% opp. win rate)

-4th: Gemma (10 points, 54% win rate, 43% opp. win rate)

-5th: Red Fox (9 points, 50% win rate, 70% opp. win rate)

-6th: DodgeDusk (6 points, 43% win rate, 52% opp. win rate)

-7th: General Horace (6 points, 38% win rate, 48% opp. win rate)

-8th: Raven (5 points, 18% win rate, 74% opp. win rate)

-9th: Elieson (3 points, 20% win rate, 52% opp. win rate)

Semi-finals Bracket (needs to be done by Tuesday 11/11)

-Febro vs. Void

-Knife vs. Gemma

-6th

Edited November 10, 2014 by Knife

[Anacybele]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but several things.

1. All tourneys are posted in the tourney hub thread and you have to get permission from the thread starter, Doofina/Starbound to post one there.

2. Doofina already gave me the okay to do a Wii U hype tourney and at most of those same dates.

3. Sign ups aren't even allowed to be opened until like a week before it begins.

4. It's not fair to start it before the 6th, as not everybody will have Smash Wii U until then.

[Knife]

1. Why do all tournaments have to go through there? Why is Doofina the authority on tournaments? Seems like kinda an arbitrary rule. Plus I can't really tell what the current/next tournament is since its all mixed in there. What's wrong with separate threads?

2. You can still do it, there's no problem. This is a different format anyway (probably). Why is there a rule against multiple tourneys anyways? It only becomes a problem when there's like 5 at once.

3. 5 days is still plenty of time for sign-ups.

4. I am confused... this is not for Smash Wii U, its for Smash 3DS.

[Anacybele]

1. I personally don't like a single thread for all tourneys myself, but that's how everyone else agreed on it and that's how it's been going since Smash 3DS came out. Doofina was the one that started the tourney hub thread.

2. Actually, I misread your dates. For some reason, I thought those were December dates, not November ones. Nevermind about that. >_<

3. See above.

4. Yeah, I misread that too... Gods, I'm an idiot right now...

[Knife]

1. I personally don't like a single thread for all tourneys myself, but that's how everyone else agreed on it and that's how it's been going since Smash 3DS came out. Doofina was the one that started the tourney hub thread.

2. Actually, I misread your dates. For some reason, I thought those were December dates, not November ones. Nevermind about that. >_<

3. See above.

4. Yeah, I misread that too... Gods, I'm an idiot right now...

1. I think we should bring things back to normal now... I'm sure I'm not alone when I say its confusing as hell to have a 60+ page topic for all tourneys, not mention relying on one person to update everything regarding tourneys. If the concern is about having too many tourney threads, we should have a sub-board or something. Don't think it'll be a problem though.

Join..

[Elieson]

We are not getting a Sub-Board or something. Much more deserving sections of SF haven't received one, so why should this?

[Knife]

That wasn't the point, just a suggestion. Would rather that than have to dig through 60 pages to find a tourney. Or last 5 pages.

Out of curiosity, what sections?

Edited October 29, 2014 by Knife

[blyegg]

Honestly, I'd love this idea of a Wii U tourny on the release day - this way we can all enjoy release day to the fullest and people who get it later can still enjoy Ana's. I suggest you submit the idea to Doof, if you haven't already

[Ema Skye]

Honestly I have no issues with Knife doing this. I'm in no way an authority figure over tournaments, and I am in no way able to stop or forbid people from entering Knife's tournament.

I'd sign up but this is right around when finals are and they're kinda more important than Smash Bros. Best of luck!

[Elieson]

That wasn't the point, just a suggestion. Would rather that than have to dig through 60 pages to find a tourney. Or last 5 pages.

Out of curiosity, what sections?

The FE Drafting Board went on for what would equate to Years. Mafia too. Granted they got theirs, but it took quite a while of invested dozen+ page threads.

Link Arena went on for Months, and had individual threads that got designated to the FE Drafts threads.

League of Legends and MMOs/MOBAs undertook a massive debate that went on for weeks before mods finally buckled in on what was a really unecessary subforum create (a year old subforum with barely 2 pages of threads, several of which already existed and were just moved there for convenience? Please. It was a bad suggestion then and the fad wore off really quickly).

In case you haven't checked, I'm keeping serious track of all things Tourney related in my Googledoc, and is pretty much waiting on common approval for a few other things before it gets doc'd up even more. Have a Q? Click the links in there. Also, Doof's reported having extreme PC issues, which I think nets him the bye of not being able to maintain his OP and I'll just usurp him from it if he fails because i'm a shrewd bastard who likes to organize things.

I think the way we host tourneys is fine as is. Organize everything in one place, and when Doof can return to stocking his OP properly, it'll be fine. Unless you can give me a good reason for why we need a separate thread for every tourney when there's barely any discussion that revolves around that [or any] specific tourney to begin with. The things end in like two days, and most of the talk goes on about "Hey are you available? Hey here's my score, but the Challonge bracket already has it. Damn good match ttyl m8."

Edited October 29, 2014 by Sara.

[Knife]

I'd be cool with it if it was organized better. So I don't mind doing it through that as long as the tournaments are actually linked from the OP. Or just leave Elie's list in the OP if Doof can't do it.

Also, why can't we have more than 1 tourney at a time. You're restricting a lot of good times to be had.

But I already made this thread and all so... yeah.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Knife

[Florete]

I figured I'd wait to see some opinions before posting, and now that Doofina has shown I think it's time.

On one side, I wanted the main tournament thread so things could stay organized. Having a new one for each tournament would create too much clutter.

On the other side, I don't want to snuff out other people who want to host tournaments on the side. Doofina is one person and not everyone is going to want to follow that procedure. The system has yet to be perfected.

For now I'm going to say that this can stay since it should be big enough (no cap on entrants, after all). I won't let any smaller ones have their own thread, though. Anything for 16 entrants or fewer goes in the main thread, but ideally, everything would go in there, and after some tweaking to the system I'll likely decide that they all need to go through that for the sake of organization.

[Raven]

I've never seen this format before, it looks interesting. I've signed up.

Upon initially reading the title though, I assumed it was a tournament that will be hosted on the Wii U version. Might want to change that to attract the people who are still playing Smash on 3DS right now (so that's still everyone).

Edited October 29, 2014 by Raven

[Quintessence]

Signed up for this Waha Knife! I hope I can do the rounds without any trouble because weekday, homework, university and stuff.

[Raven]

It's Waha Kife!

[metalsnowman3]

I figured I'd wait to see some opinions before posting, and now that Doofina has shown I think it's time.

On one side, I wanted the main tournament thread so things could stay organized. Having a new one for each tournament would create too much clutter.

On the other side, I don't want to snuff out other people who want to host tournaments on the side. Doofina is one person and not everyone is going to want to follow that procedure. The system has yet to be perfected.

For now I'm going to say that this can stay since it should be big enough (no cap on entrants, after all). I won't let any smaller ones have their own thread, though. Anything for 16 entrants or fewer goes in the main thread, but ideally, everything would go in there, and after some tweaking to the system I'll likely decide that they all need to go through that for the sake of organization.

I would like to mention that outside of the draft tournament there really isn't a good reason to allow as many people to the tournament as possible. If there happens to be bye's with an uneven amount, do seeding based on the leaderboard if PKL/Doofina update it. If they don't, just seed it so the top players get byes.

I would also like to suggest (maybe when the wii u ssb comes out) of doing like a weekly tournament that just starts on monday and ends on friday and anyone can join but that wouldn't work with Doofina's thread being the only place for tourneys.

sorry for cluttering up this thread but i don't know where the best place is to discuss this.

[Knife]

I've never seen this format before, it looks interesting. I've signed up.

Upon initially reading the title though, I assumed it was a tournament that will be hosted on the Wii U version. Might want to change that to attract the people who are still playing Smash on 3DS right now (so that's still everyone).

*does that*

Signed up for this Waha Knife! I hope I can do the rounds without any trouble because weekday, homework, university and stuff.

I'm gonna kick your ass.

Uh, due to a few concerns/questions, here's a mini-FAQ:

-Are customs allowed?

Custom moves are allowed, custom equipment is not. Bring out the Palutena mains.

-5 rounds seems like a lot?

Yeah, I kinda thought about that too and therefore I am shortening the Swiss rounds to 4 instead of 5.

-Some of these rounds are in the middle of the week when I'm busy and I think it'd be hard to play?

Two things I'm gonna implement: preview rounds and the ability to hold matches.

By allowing preview rounds, I'm allowing you to see who you're playing the next round. So for example when round 1 starts, you can also see who your round 2 opponent is. You can even play your match early if you want. This is only possible in a Swiss tournament as all rounds that aren't top cut will be random pairings. So you basically have 4 days to play your rounds instead of 2. You can only preview 1 round ahead though to keep the suspense going!

Through a mutual agreement (Gentlemen's clause), two opponents may decide to "hold" off on a match even past the round's deadline without penalty. So if two opponents in round 1 can't fight on 11/2, 11/3, 11/4, 11/5 but 11/6 (beginning of round 3) works perfectly for them, that's totally cool. Be careful about "holding" too many matches though since Swiss rounds must end when Round 4 ends. Any "held" matches that haven't taken place by then will get both competitors 0-0. There's also no guarantee that you will be able to hold your match since your opponent could easily say "I was available, you were not, so screw you I'm taking the win". You must keep the TO (me) informed of held matches as well as when your intent is to play. Round 4 ends on a Sunday, so you should be able to find a time to play assuming weekends are not a problem.

-What is top cut?

Thought the name would make it obvious, but essentially the top cut round is only for participants that did well enough in the Swiss rounds. Top cut round will be a traditional single elimination mini-tournament. Length depends on how big top cut will be, which is TBA until we have the final participant count.

Finally, I'm going to throw in a prize for 1st place. First place wins a 3 set collection of posters of newcomers for Smash 4 (if that's not available when the tournament ends, I'll get you something of equivalent value to 700 coins). Got plenty of coins and they expire this June for me, so its cool. See this link for more details:

https://club.nintendo.com/rewards-details/a/45108.do

Edited October 30, 2014 by Knife

[General Horace]

could we perhaps bad some omega's like the Pac Maze/other ones with dark backgrounds/stages? It's something really minor, but some moves like greninja's shadow sneak are really hard to see on those stages since you can't see the shadow. I've heard people say rainbow road is laggy as well, but I haven't had a ton of problems with it.

[Knife]

So I'm actually in the process of moving and I won't get full internet until the 5th (Wednesday). Terrible timing I know. So whoever my opponents are for round 1 and 2, we're gonna have to hold our matches until then. This does not affect anyone else. I still have 4G internet on my phone so I can still stay posted.

Finally thought of a way to make rankings fairly calculated, thought I'd share my process in advance so there are no debates later on.

First off, points are the most important thing when it comes to rankings. As you know, points are equal to the number of games (not rounds) you won. Someone with 10 points will always rank higher than someone with 9. However, it is completely possible (as in, it will happen) that two participants have the same number of points. Who ranks higher then? At that point, two factors come into play; your win percentage and your opponents' win percentage. Your win percentage is simply (number of games won ÷ number of games played)

Your opponents' win percentage is:

(number of games won by all opponents (does not include wins against you) ÷ number of games played by all opponents (does not include your games))

These two percentages add together to help determine your ranking. What does this mean? You better try to win all your matches because allowing even 1 win for your opponents hurts your win percentage. Though this somewhat balances out because if you played someone good and your score was close, it is likely your opponent will do well against other players.

Stay in the game even if your losing in the beginning. Aren't you curious where you rank among other tournament entrants?

For a tournament like this, I'm probably going to let top cut be 33% of total participants without rounding. Right now with 13 entrants we're looking at doing a top 4. If we were to get 24 people, it would turn into top 8. In the unlikely event that it's gonna be 36 entrants, we'll do a top 12.

could we perhaps bad some omega's like the Pac Maze/other ones with dark backgrounds/stages? It's something really minor, but some moves like greninja's shadow sneak are really hard to see on those stages since you can't see the shadow. I've heard people say rainbow road is laggy as well, but I haven't had a ton of problems with it.

Sure, though can't recall any other dark stages. I don't think anyone care enough about Omega Pac-Maze to argue for it. If you think of anymore, let me know. Omega Rainbow does not lag though, it's just as laggy as any other Omega.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Knife

[Knife]

Sign-ups end soon so whoever challonge says your facing, that's who you face. I will have to post round 2 previews at in the evening time tomorrow as challonge is tough to use on the phone. Whoever didn't get paired gets a technical win assuming we stay odd.

Btw, who is Dodge dusk, bluewyvern, Roxasiamario, and Hi-flo?

Also, time out gives a win to the person with the lower percent damage fyi. Sudden death means nothing.

Last thing is be sure to post your scores in this thread so I can stay informed.

Good luck.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Knife

[euklyd]

Sure, though can't recall any other dark stages. I don't think anyone care enough about Omega Pac-Maze to argue for it. If you think of anymore, let me know. Omega Rainbow does not lag though, it's just as laggy as any other Omega.

off the top of my head: Pictochat and Flat Zone (black stage), and Balloon Fight (background).

I don't remember if they're bad: WarioWare, Brinstar, Boxing Ring

I've heard the lag thing with omega stages as well; idr if it's actually the case or not

dynamic backgrounds might do it? no clue

Sign-ups end soon so whoever challonge says your facing, that's who you face. I will have to post round 2 previews at in the evening time tomorrow as challonge is tough to use on the phone. Whoever didn't get paired gets a technical win assuming we stay odd.

Btw, who is Dodge dusk, bluewyvern, Roxasiamario, and Hi-flo?

DodgeDusk, Blyvern, and idk the other two.

[Raven]

I'm pretty sure Roxas is Roxas. Hi-flo sounds familiar, but I'm not sure who it is exactly.

Either way, if things stay as they stand, I'll be up against Roxas in round 1.

Edit: With regards to hi-flo, he may well not even be an SF user. Checking his tournament history on Challonge, he's never entered an SF tourney before.

http://challonge.com/users/hiflo

Edited November 2, 2014 by Raven

[Knife]

Ok then Hi-flo, identify yourself here if you want to continue. If your a lurker and don't have an account here, make one. You'll need it to communicate. Either way, looks like you get a bye this round.

[General Horace]

rfof won 3-2! someone teach me how to fight rosaluma DDDD:

Edited November 2, 2014 by General Horace

[Florete]

Yep, 3-2. I won the three as Rosaluma, lost the two as Peach and ZSS. I know Rosaluma is being considered one of the better characters (if not the best outright), but I got wrecked so hard when I switched even though ZSS is (at least I think) my 2nd best character in this game and was my best in Brawl.