Patch 1.0.4 update list

[Florete]

It's been too long for me to remember if I've ever done it in Brawl. I didn't hear about the concept until I was done with Brawl.

Probably placebo or something else entirely.

[Jedi]

Yeah, the extra kill move in Farore's Wind is really big, though to be honest Din's Fire is pretty unimpressive and the fact it puts you in helpless freefall has gotten me SDed a couple of times because I slid off a ledge. Phantom is not the greatest but it does give her some extra edgeguard potential... just not the best.

Getting wins with Zelda is still not easy but I think it's hard to make her good without fundamentally changing what makes Zelda feel like Zelda. Unfortunately being light, floaty, tall, and slower-than-average movement is tough to pull yourself out of but she wouldn't feel right if any of that were different.

I find Din's Fire quite useful for applying pressure, and I never use it in mid-air or totally near an edge. due to that very possibility, I have gotten really good at controlling it over the years

I'd say its much easier then before to score wins with her. She has my 3rd most amount of wins online haha

Edited November 20, 2014 by Jedi

[PKLucas531]

It might be placebo, but I feel like running into an up smash has become a lot harder. Is it possible/plausible I've been doing DACUS and just not realizing it?

People on Smashboards have been saying dashing into up-smash has been made harder. Definitely not placebo, I've tested it myself.

The change only applies to those with Tap Jump off. Go into the control config and try doing the same input for dash up-smash with Tap Jump on, then off, it doesn't work while it's off.

You can still do dash into up-smash with Tap Jump off with a bit of exploiting: Dash, input the Up like you normally would, but roll your finger from X to A instead of just doing up Smash. You'll probably have a higher success rate doing that.

(If you care about why this works: It's because you are cancelling your dash into a jump, and then cancelling the jump into an up-smash before it even comes out. Tap Jump on makes this much easier because the input for Up applies to both the jump and the up-smash, so 1 less input is required)

Edited November 20, 2014 by PKLucas531

[Crow the BOOLET]

So they nerfed Bowsercide!?

Bowser isn't as cheap as he used to.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Crow the BOOLET

[Zera]

In Soviet Russia (and now Smash 4), Bowserside kills YOU first! Most heavyweights have a suicide move to compensate for slow attack speed, and it's the last thing I would nerf. Decreasing the knockback would be fine; few things are cheaper than a grab attack with KO power (I'm looking at you, Ness B-Throw). But telling me that Bowser dies first even though he's on top is just plain stupid.

[Comet]

In Soviet Russia (and now Smash 4), Bowserside kills YOU first! Most heavyweights have a suicide move to compensate for slow attack speed, and it's the last thing I would nerf. Decreasing the knockback would be fine; few things are cheaper than a grab attack with KO power (I'm looking at you, Ness B-Throw). But telling me that Bowser dies first even though he's on top is just plain stupid.

pretty sure their compensations are actually living longer and hitting harder. the suicides are really gimmicky and situational. besides, it isn't just limited to heavyweights; kirby can do it too. i want kirby's melee throws back....

[Florete]

Compared to other suicides, Bowser's is really safe and easy to land; others are almost guaranteed to kill the user if they miss, and the opponent usually needs to be over the edge already, whereas Bowser can just do it from the ground and it doesn't even have a ton of cooldown. I fully agree with the nerf.

[Zera]

pretty sure their compensations are actually living longer and hitting harder. the suicides are really gimmicky and situational.

Have you ever played a good Bowser player? They will ALWAYS end a close match with Flying Slam if they can, and now that option is completely gone. Unlike with Gannondorf, Dedede, and Kirby, Bowserside is an essential tool in Bowser's arsenal. Bowser went from a tie winner to a tie loser. This change is so significant that my brother switched back to Gannondorf. And let me tell you, he was a tough Bowser to beat...

And of course...

|

|

Bowser

You

|

V

(Bowser dies first)

This scenario speaks for itself. And one last thing: Since Bowser dies first, the opponent is released, giving them a chance to potentially recover. How's THAT for a suicide attack?

[Jester Capri]

If they're gonna fix Bowsercide, why didn't they fix Ganoncide too?

[Knife]

I don't really Bowsercide and I play Bowser. That hitbox is very tiny and I end up opting for a grab anyway. His B-throw kills too. Bowsercide only works when Bowser has the lead anyway.

[FrostyFireMage]

Bowser still has the most broken smashes in the game

[Zera]

Bowser still has the most broken smashes in the game

Exactly. So let's nerf the Bowserside instead.

Also, my brother made a joke that they once again forgot about Meta Knight's Sword. I cut clean through both of Marth's legs with the first hit of his F-Tilt in Training and it didn't register a hit. Now I know why he has gauntlets now... because they are what he actually uses to fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlQLM0XkXW0

What's the fun of playing a character whose hitboxes don't match the animations? I'm fine if the last 10 or 15 percent of the sword doesn't count, but there is a line and it has been crossed. Many glitches have been removed with this patch. Perhaps the next patch will remove this one.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Zera

[FrostyFireMage]

Exactly. So let's nerf the Bowserside instead.

The Bowsercide was easily the least balanced thing about Bowser. You could KO somebody with less than 50% easily as long as you had less damage than they did.

[Lord Raven]

If they're gonna fix Bowsercide, why didn't they fix Ganoncide too?

Because, as someone else pointed out, the only way to "safely" do a ganoncide is from the edge if the person is in just the right spot. Which most sane players can easily avoid. If you're attempted it off screen then you're basically screwed if it misses.

[Zera]

The Bowsercide was easily the least balanced thing about Bowser. You could KO somebody with less than 50% easily as long as you had less damage than they did.

Perhaps you're forgetting the part where Bowser dies as well.

And the part where the opponent has more control if they have less damage themselves.

Literally the only advantage of Bowsercide is that the opponent dies first. And now that advantage belongs to the opponent instead.

In other words, this move is now more useful for the opponent than Bowser himself.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Zera

[Jedi]

Perhaps you're forgetting the part where Bowser dies as well.

And the part where the opponent has more control if they have less damage themselves.

Literally the only advantage of Bowsercide is that the opponent dies first. And now that advantage belongs to the opponent instead.

If you are in the lead by a stock its still a huge advantage and scare factor. Please. Mind games are an advantage too. If a bowser has a lead on you you're going to be a lot more wary of being near him

[Florete]

Perhaps you're forgetting the part where Bowser dies as well.

And the part where the opponent has more control if they have less damage themselves.

Literally the only advantage of Bowsercide is that the opponent dies first. And now that advantage belongs to the opponent instead.

In other words, this move is now more useful for the opponent than Bowser himself.

Get first kill -> Bowsercide to victory.

[Zera]

If you are in the lead by a stock its still a huge advantage and scare factor. Please. Mind games are an advantage too. If a bowser has a lead on you you're going to be a lot more wary of being near him

Wasn't that the point? I mean, really, think about it. We're talking a giant fire-breathing dragon-turtle-monster. I for one, love the fact that he's actually somewhat intimidating in this installment of Smash Bros, and I don't even play as him.

My friend Miles Edgeworth would like to have a word with all the newbies who think Bowsercide is overpowered.

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=7659118

[FrostyFireMage]

I don't think you understand just how cheap the Bowsercide was. It was like Little Mac's KO Punch except far easier to pull off and you don't have to wait until it charges.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, what Red Fox said. Also applies to Kirby and Dedede.

[Zera]

I don't think you understand just how cheap the Bowsercide was. It was like Little Mac's KO Punch except far easier to pull off and you don't have to wait until it charges.

You're right, I don't understand. Please explain what's so cheap about it.

As I previously stated, you cannot gain the lead with Bowsercide.

[Lord Raven]

one KO then getting them to a higher percentage than you then bowserciding = you win

that's the basic idea

On top of that if you already have the lead then bowsercide = no hope

Bowser himself has some very powerful aerials that aren't even that slow which puts this firmly in the realm of possibility

And I think the developers would much, much rather nerf one move than nerf many, many moves. I don't know why you think the former is a better alternative.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Lord Raven

[Zera]

one KO then getting them to a higher percentage than you then bowserciding = you win

that's the basic idea

On top of that if you already have the lead then bowsercide = no hope

Congratulations sir, you've won the daily award of Proving My Point™.

Bowsercide does not create victory, it only secures it.

Bowser himself has some very powerful aerials that aren't even that slow which puts this firmly in the realm of possibility

And I think the developers would much, much rather nerf one move than nerf many, many moves. I don't know why you think the former is a better alternative.

Finally, a point that actually has some value against my argument! You did it!

I do not think Bowser's aerials are that amazing. They can be devastating - but they are just as predictable, if not more so, than others.

If there's one move that needs to be nerfed, it's Flying Slam. It's a grab attack - that deals a whopping 19% damage - and has enough knockback to KO.

Especially while playing light characters, I have suffered more KOs from Flying Slam than Bowsercide, smash attacks, and aerials.

And Bowercide is one of the most unique characteristics of Bowser's playstyle.

That is why I find it incredibly difficult to believe that anyone would rather nerf Bowsercide.

Also, I still can't get over how dumb it is that Bowser dies first even though he's on top. Does no one else find that revolting? It's even worse than Meta-Knights air sword.

There are so many ways to balance a game without making it so that the gameplay doesn't match the animations, and in this regard Nintendo has done a mediocre job with Bowser and Meta-Knight.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Zera

[Lord Raven]

Congratulations sir, you've won the daily award of Proving My Point™.

Bowsercide does not create victory, it only secures it.

It secures it far earlier than it should. That's why it's considered cheap.

I do not think Bowser's aerials are that amazing. They can be devastating - but they are just as predictable, if not more so, than others.

If there's one move that needs to be nerfed, it's Flying Slam. It's a grab attack - that deals a whopping 19% damage - and has enough knockback to KO.

Especially while playing light characters, I have suffered more KOs from Flying Slam than Bowsercide, smash attacks, and aerials.

And Bowercide is one of the most unique characteristics of Bowser's playstyle.

That is why I find it incredibly difficult to believe that anyone would rather nerf Bowsercide.

Flying Slam is down B? That's not that OP at all... and his forward B as it stands does a ton of damage anyway so I don't see the complaining. Now you just can't take them off the edge.

Also, I still can't get over how dumb it is that Bowser dies first even though he's on top. Does no one else find that revolting? It's even worse than Meta-Knights air sword.

If I'm recalling right they escape (very very very low) before he goes down.

[Comet]

i think it'd be important to remember that you have to have higher damage than your opponent and be near the edge to make this happen, so it shouldn't be happening in the first place. or, you know, just don't get hit. or maybe kill bowser before he does it since he should have a decent amount of damage if skill levels of given players are close.

ugh i'm stupid, it's lower percent.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Comet