Amiibo Learning Observations

[Randoman]

In this thread I want to compile a list of people's observations regarding amiibo in Smash Bros., how they learn, and what tactics they pick up from others. Feel free to post observations you've heard from others as well as your own.

(the below is copied and pasted from the SSB4 thread)

I have to say, they're kind of scary (in a good way) in how they actually learn and copy your fighting style. I was training my Mario amiibo with using Mario and going all out on him, and he actually copied down my constant caping, punishing dodges with down smashes, low recoveries that make edge guarding harder, and my insanely aggressive aerial fighting style. He's also tried to copy my cape and forward air edgeguard tactics, but thankfully he isn't anywhere near as accurate as I am (as in, he hasn't actually killed me with those moves).

From my friend who has a Link amiibo at level 50, supposedly his AI is rather poor due to training his Link amiibo using Ike. In his words, he said that Link is copying Ike's tactics with them working out miserably. He did get to improve his Link amiibo's AI a bit by using his own Link against him, though it'd probably take a while to untrain the Link amiibo from Ike tactics. From what he said as well, since his tactic is to prioritize getting items, his Link amiibo does the same and doesn't really fight effectively without them.

[euklyd]

lmao you can train Amiibos to be stupid

that's amazing

almost makes me want to buy one

"Hey guys check out my Lv. 50 Yoshi! The only attack he knows how to use is butt-bomb!"

honestly this just makes me want to see like, a Lv. 50 Amiibo trained by M2K or someone fight a Lv. 50 Amiibo trained by some random scrub

or even have pro smashers train Amiibos and have them compete in side-shows to tournaments

EDIT: While I sound like, "haha that's funny" in this post, I do actually think that's really cool, if it's legit (and it sounds like pretty strong evidence). I want to use the word "fascinating" but it's not at that level for me, at least at this time

this should still be an interesting thread

Edited November 22, 2014 by Euklyd

[Yuki]

That's actually pretty darn cool, and I want to see something like that for more games. I think it's an interesting challenge to train or fight "yourself", especially since it lets you pick out your flaws when using other characters against the amiibo. I plan to pick up Marth and Ike amiibo's myself (and hopefully Robin). I'll probably start noticing that Marth is taking after me when he starts using Counter the whole time. :P

[Sentacotus]

That actually makes me wanna get one now. Makes me wonder if you pick up the Captain Falcon one and just train him to taunt the entire time. I guess you can say that *puts on sunglasses* you can show him your moves....

[metalsnowman3]

dude my marth and fox amiibo kick the shit out of me lol. they both 3 stocked my falcon and shiek in a 3 stock match on FD. I beat em with rosalina but they adapted so well to my in your face aerial style its insane.

[Carter]

So, if I'm reading correctly, the best way to train your amiibo is with that specific character? (Training Peach with Peach)?

Sounds easy enough! Hopefully my student will learn much from me! But that's actually extremely scary, how they "copy" your style. I can't even begin to imagine what would happen in a Lv. 50 Peach amiibo and myself as Peach... it's like it would be two of me!

[Mighty Kamina]

honestly this just makes me want to see like, a Lv. 50 Amiibo trained by M2K or someone fight a Lv. 50 Amiibo trained by some random scrub

or even have pro smashers train Amiibos and have them compete in side-shows to tournaments

Is it bad that I actually want this to be a thing?

Well, I'll look forward to training a Shulk amiibo when I can buy one.

[metalsnowman3]

dude back alley amiibo fights, its gonna be high stakes boys

[Sentacotus]

dude back alley amiibo fights, its gonna be high stakes boys

I can see it now crowds gathered in the dark alleys your parents told you to avoid rolling the dice and placing bets that shits gonna get real.

[Randoman]

I've gotten my two younger brothers to fight my amiibo (who're quite good at Smash Bros., but I'm slightly better), but they weren't able to defeat him. I haven't lost to my amiibo yet, despite it being at level 50 already. It's kind of neat how I'm catching onto my own weaknesses with Mario and exploiting them (like leaving myself vulnerable to aerial attacks from using down smashes quite a lot).

That actually makes me wanna get one now. Makes me wonder if you pick up the Captain Falcon one and just train him to taunt the entire time. I guess you can say that *puts on sunglasses* you can show him your moves....

You actually reminded me, I've been trying to teach my Mario amiibo to taunt after pulling off a KO by taunting when I pull off a KO (when I can), but it's sadly only done it once or twice. Then again, it's quite hard to taunt right after pulling off an edgeguard KO (which is what ~2/3rds of my KOs on the Mario amiibo consist of), since I'm still usually in mid-air when the Mario amiibo gets KOed.

I think I remember one guy online (I think it was Andre from GameExplain) who said he was able to teach his amiibo to taunt successfully after each KO the amiibo performed.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Randoman

[Loki Laufeyson]

honestly this just makes me want to see like, a Lv. 50 Amiibo trained by M2K or someone fight a Lv. 50 Amiibo trained by some random scrub

or even have pro smashers train Amiibos and have them compete in side-shows to tournaments

OH YES. This is the Big Main Thing i want to see happen. MAKE IT HAPPEN, BOYS!

Its gonna be pretty wiggy to train Yoshi and then see how i fare against my own Big Gay Pink Yoshi. Hurry up, 3DS amiibo compatibility!

[shadowofchaos]

From my friend who has a Link amiibo at level 50, supposedly his AI is rather poor due to training his Link amiibo using Ike. In his words, he said that Link is copying Ike's tactics with them working out miserably.

So Link fighting for his friends isn't working out as well as fighting for Zelda booty?

[Quintessence]

So the best way of training amiibos is against the own character? Is it better 1 on 1 against your amiibo? Or on FFAs? Or 8 player matches with you and your amiibo?

I'm really interested on getting the Little Mac and Zelda amiibo for the second wave of amiibo, and for the third wave Shulk and Rosalina & Luma. I hope Lucina and Robin get their amiibos, eitherway I'll have to get Marth and Robin, if he gets one though.

[Randoman]

So the best way of training amiibos is against the own character? Is it better 1 on 1 against your amiibo? Or on FFAs? Or 8 player matches with you and your amiibo?

Well, I personally went something like this with my Mario amiibo:

Lv. 1 -> Lv. 10 = Training with myself (as non-Mario characters) and computers in 4 player matches.

Lv. 10 -> Lv. 43 = Trained with Mario amiibo using my Mario against him all the time in 1-on-1's

Lv. 43 -> Lv. 50 = Got my younger brothers to try to defeat my Mario amiibo, which they weren't able to.

Seeing how the majority of the fights the Mario amiibo had were against my Mario and my friend said his Link amiibo was "using Ike tactics and performed poorly as a result due to using Ike against him a lot" I guess training an amiibo with the character they are (eg: training a Mario amiibo with your own Mario), really makes a big difference and really helps them learn and fight better.

On another note, despite my Mario amiibo being trained for 1-on-1's for a majority of the time, it did insanely well in a 4 on 4 battle with my two brothers, the amiibo, and I against 4 level 9 CPUs. It actually ended the match with 2 lives (everyone started with 3) a lot of the time, except for when my brothers and I had to borrow a stock from him. Not counting stock borrowing, it always had the lead in lives (except at the start since it's not like stocks are lost that quickly) during the 4 on 4 team battles my brothers and I had teaming up with the amiibo.

Another thing it actually copied from me was the way it used the Mario Finale. I almost always go to one side of the stage, jump off the stage, and use it when I'm at short hop height. It eventually actually used the Mario Finale in the exact same way, even copying jumping off the stage, which is something computers almost never do (at least in SSB4) barring edge-guarding from the edge they're jumping off from.

@ shadowofchaos: Sadly, "Link copying Ike's tactics with them working out miserably" is all he left me with regarding specifics about why his Link amiibo was rather bad. Though I don't know for sure what kind of stuff the Link amiibo did, I could imagine it'd be things like pulling out bombs right before getting attacked (copying Ike's down B with poor results) or using a grounded spin attacks when opponents are right above him (copying Ike's up B with poor results).

[Roivann]

I trained my friend's Link to run away from most everything. It was great, but then we never could beat him.

[Magical Glace]

I guess I'm getting a Ness amiibo to train to learn to grab -> backthrow after PK Fires...

And I was planning on just Marth.

[Randoman]

Another thing I forgot to mention: when I constantly edgeguarded my Mario amiibo using the cape and Mario's forward air, it actually learned to use the cape to reflect fireballs from my Mario. It's interesting since I only used the cape against the Mario amiibo to edgeguard, yet it learned to use the cape often not for edgeguarding as well, but for reflecting fireballs. That is something I never did in my matches with the Mario amiibo until the Mario amiibo started reflecting fireballs.

So basically, I think that if you use a move often, the amiibo will also use that move but not necessarily in the way that you use it (eg: I use the cape mainly for edgeguarding, but the Mario amiibo used the cape mainly as a reflector).

[euklyd]

it's possible that CPUs have a preprogrammed library of techniques they can "learn" when you do different things, I suppose

which would be hella easier to program than a true learning AI

I just wonder how fine a distinction they can make among your techniques...

[Mikethfc]

Are these any good then? I'm thinking about getting one, but if using it pretty much locks you to that character then I'm not entirely sure it would be that good.

[shadowofchaos]

Are these any good then? I'm thinking about getting one, but if using it pretty much locks you to that character then I'm not entirely sure it would be that good.

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/11/26/story-fox-amiibo-nearly-won-super-smash-bros-tournament/

A hero.

One the community didn't expect.

[Chastlily]

I trained my Marth amiibo for around 7 hours and I must say he became too good for me

Starting from level 47 he started to read every of my movement and teleport (as palu). He still mess up a lot his dancing blade and end up using the dolphin strike but he counters everything perfectly, edgeguard like a boss, perfect shield everything and even manage to chain grab me and juggle with me like I'm some baloon.

Right now, I can only beat him with my two mains (Samus and Ganondorf) and he has trouble against me as Palutena, but he dodges every air attack and I literally can just try to spike him off the stage or play follow-ups only.

It's very fun to fight against him, but he became way too powerfull now, if he could use his dancing blade perfectly I don't think I could beat him.

Also, he uses his dolphin strike offensively a lot while I never do as Marth, that's one of the two things he learned to do alone.

He learned to dash+up smash alone and he hits with the tip most of the time. Also he does B-reversal

He's a great sparring most of the time, but if I try anything I want to improve like Fox or Palutena he almost always obliterate me in less than a minute

Sakurai pls nerf

Are these any good then? I'm thinking about getting one, but if using it pretty much locks you to that character then I'm not entirely sure it would be that good.

Honestly? Yes they are, at first you'll be beating them easily but it's quite challenging at the end.

As for the way I trained him, it's very simple

At first I played Marth only against him so he could assimilate what are the basic combos and what he sould do, and what he should not do (hi dolphin strike in the middle of the dancing blade)

Afterwards, I trained him against projectiles and I played only Link/Palutena/Samus using only specials so he could learn how to approach safely.

To learn him not to get him, I did a 50 stock match with 300% handicap and high gravity for him, all hits would be deadly to him and after the 3rd game he had learned how to perfect shield/power shield/dodge any attacks.

The only thing he cannot do yet is learn to not try to hit a Warlock-punching Ganondorf, he dies everytime to that or my up tilt

I'm gonna keep training him, but I'm starting to lose half of the time against him and I fear that I created a monster.

[Randoman]

@ Chasticot: Wow. Thanks for your thorough post. It sounds like your Marth amiibo is leagues stronger and scarier than my Mario amiibo. I wish my Mario amiibo would properly be able to copy my edgeguarding techniques (or maybe not, since I do want to be able to defeat him). How'd you get your Marth amiibo to properly learn edgeguarding? I've been edgeguarding my Mario amiibo like crazy ever since he was at level 1 (around 2/3rds of the KOs I've performed on him were edgeguards), yet he's still very inaccurate in his forward air meteor smashes and cape edgeguards (as in, he's never successfully hit me with either).

As for your Marth amiibo being really bad against Ganondorf's hard hitting attacks and not learning how to deal with them, that sounds very similar to my Mario amiibo's weakness to edgeguarding. No matter how many matches I've spent edgeguarding him, he always just takes the brunt of it or air dodges and gets himself killed from being too low to recover. Oh well, I guess we can't expect computer AI to be perfect.

Are these any good then? I'm thinking about getting one, but if using it pretty much locks you to that character then I'm not entirely sure it would be that good.

Well, starting with just one if you're still not sure isn't a bad idea. I will say that fighting against them once they reach the higher levels (40-50) is definitely a fun and intense experience, especially when you're doing a mirror match against them.

Yeah, you will have to do around 5-10 mirror matches with your amiibo once they reach the mid levels (level 20-40), but after that, they'll be able to fight using strategies and techniques that best fit the character they are (eg: Link will use all his projectiles properly, and won't pull out a bomb before he's attacked since he's trying to copy Marth's counter). After level 50, I've had my Mario amiibo fight a lot of battles that didn't have Mario in them, yet he didn't pick up any detrimental strategies from trying to copy other fighters he fought against.

it's possible that CPUs have a preprogrammed library of techniques they can "learn" when you do different things, I suppose
which would be hella easier to program than a true learning AI

I just wonder how fine a distinction they can make among your techniques...

That would clear thing up. I guess despite me using the cape mainly for edgeguarding, the amiibo recognized it simply as me using the cape and used it the way a CPU Mario typically would (for reflecting projectiles).

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/11/26/story-fox-amiibo-nearly-won-super-smash-bros-tournament/

A hero.
One the community didn't expect.

Wow. That actually sounds really neat, yet scary. I'm quite suprised that a Fox amiibo was able to defeat that many tournament level players. Even with the level 50 stat boosts and perfect dodging and timing of attacks, I thought the tournament players would be able to find some sort of flaw in the amiibo AI to exploit. In particular, amiibo are generally really vulnerable to edgeguarding and aren't able to smartly deal with it in the way high level human smashers would. My Mario amiibo in particular hasn't properly learned how to counteract my edgeguarding. He either tries to hit me too early/late when I'm edgeguarding or he tries to air dodge my attack and recovers too late due to the air dodge ending when he's way too low to recover. Then again, this was an amiibo trained by a tournament level player. I have to wonder how he trained it, since my Mario amiibo still has a ways to go and I want to bring my Mario amiibo up to speed with his training techniques.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Randoman

[Chastlily]

@Randoman

I played as marth a lot of time so whenever I would throw him offstage i'd edgeguard all the time and even suicide death so he died with me, he copied me and now he's like "Let's open to page 7 of the Book of Chast"

Edited December 10, 2014 by Chasticot

[euklyd]

Some guy on Reddit had some fun training up three Yoshi Amiibos and comparing results; some of it is pretty interesting.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2p3xvv/im_the_guy_who_trained_3_yoshi_amiibos_im_back/

Just thought this thread might be interested :V

[Zak Something]

I saw this on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qIfYVQnYmc

is it bad I wanna try this