Vorena Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 is for more chapter clear conditions. I am tired of rout and seize options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Cero Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Did awakening even have seize? I think it just had kill boss and rout lol. But yeah more chapter objectives are a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roivann Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I second this 100%. Hell, not only do I want varied objectives, I want multiple options on how to achieve my objectives. If my objective is to defeat the boss, I want to be able to surround the boss on all four sides, and hold them for ransom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonLord Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I would be amazed to see a return of the Escape chapters from FE5, I actually liked those cause I had to plan out a proper escape plan to make sure none of my units died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerserg Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I second this 100%. Hell, not only do I want varied objectives, I want multiple options on how to achieve my objectives. If my objective is to defeat the boss, I want to be able to surround the boss on all four sides, and hold them for ransom. This is what I really want, I would love to be given several choices on how to handle most chapters. Obviously some need to be dealt with in one way but it would make me feel like I had more control over my army. Do I want to kill all my foes to make sure no one stands in my way? Do I have a choice but to do that? Could I escape into the woods and avoid loses? I would love to have lots of choices in gameplay and the ransom Idea is perfect. I think that would be a nice natural evolution for the series to have more real choices in game play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Was unsure when I came in this topic, but I definitely agree. Hopefully the "challenges" Iwata mentioned is partially referring to diverse clear conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I would be amazed to see a return of the Escape chapters from FE5, I actually liked those cause I had to plan out a proper escape plan to make sure none of my units died. RD had those too. But yes. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kysafen Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 -If enemies can't pair up, neither should the players -A good 2-gen system or none at all. Look guys, can we all agree that Seisen no Keifu is the obvious superior of the games when it came to generations because the story demanded you use them? Awakening's was almost if not completely optional, and thereby pointless: did you get a different ending for recruiting all the children? No. Did their presence (sans Lucina) in the main game actually CHANGE anything about the main story? Not a damn thing. The only time when their presence is actually meaningful is in The Future Past... a DLC story that you have to pay for, is optional and unnecessary to finish the main game's story. If you're going to introduce the children of our units, then don't make it some option, force us to use them. Or better yet, don't have a 2-gen system at all and focus your efforts instead on polishing the other aspects of the game. -Writing. Seriously, do any of you people picture Tharja as someone who could exist in real life? As a character you've seen and said "you know what, she really does seem to have a background that rationalizes why she has her attitude, personal tendencies, and decisions she's made in her life?" Because I sure as fuck didn't. She sucks, not because she's grimdark, but because she's grimdark without any kind of humanity that would explain WHY she's grimdark. In fact, do we get a backstory as to why Olivia is shy to dance around people, and why she decides to do it, despite? Do we get a reason as to why Cordelia doesn't just fucking talk to Chrom? Do we know why Gaius likes candy? Do we know why Virion likes to flirt with women? Do we have any real reason WHY Anna likes money? Of course we don't. Because they're poorly written. They're not written as people so much as trope-ridden icons rife with character traits, but no humanity or depth underneath. If Pegasus Knight Hinoka is going to be a tomboy, explain through the support conversations WHY she's a tomboy, and with NUANCE, and how her interactions with other units makes her not only learn something about the other unit, but herself as well. Give her, give the whole damn cast a piece of heartfelt humanity that we, the players, can personally connect and relate to. Don't write characters, write PEOPLE. -A story with focus: Awakening had it rough being the tentative "final" Fire Emblem: the developers must have felt that it had to be a grand epic: about the story of how a woman's sacrifice changed the tide of a country's conflict, it wanted to be about taking down an empire hell-bent on taking over the world, and it wanted to be about defeating an ancient evil bent on destroying it. It's the Spiderman 3 syndrome: it tries to be everything, and either stumbles or outright fails at each thing. If you had the entire game be about just one of these things, cut the 20-something paralogues and make them part of the main story, then maybe we would've had the time to focus the drama at play here, and maybe even make it actually compelling. But can you blame IS? It wanted not just 3 storylines, but it also wanted to pay homage to the previous titles in the series, a "curtain call," if you will, in the form of being able to recruit characters from previous titles, and playing in some re-made maps in the DLC. It would have made for a decent-enough finale to the series... except it sold. Brilliantly. And now that Intelligent Systems has the financial proof that Fire Emblem isn't going anywhere, they no longer have the excuse to make their story a full-on scattershot of plotlines. Now, I don't know how good of a writer Shin Kibayashi is, but if he has the privilege to professionally write for the game industry, then he'd better make it a tale that organically and logically unfolds, and is pretty lacking in plot-holes, filled with relatable, human characters and actual drama that has the capacity to touch us in one way or another, or at the very least make it rife with political intrigue. Or so help me, I will tear this game a new one. -Actual varied mission goals: it's easier than you think to organically write how you can have different mission goals in a series like Fire Emblem: --Escape: "Though the defense of the fort was indeed fierce, the young lord found it somewhat off, that their resistance was somewhat lacking. Setting up guards for the night, he awoke upon the brink of dawn to his personal guard bursting into his room. The Emperor, in a gambit, had sacrificed the strategic Fort Lawrencia and lowered the guards there, to trap the young Prince's forces, demolish their forces, and retake the Fort in one fell swoop. It was a harsh truth, but the booming of the overwhelming numbers of the vengeful Empire, coming from the direction of dawn, spelled out one single option: they had to run." --Arrive: "The information of an imminent massacre on Palace Vestol was a piece of information bought with many of Vestol's lives. His Majesty's honor guard, the Nacht Ritter, all carried the information of this news. 8 men, fleeing a force of 100. Would the riders fly along the coastline? Would they endanger the guardsmen of the villagers to buy time? What weighed heavier in their hearts? Even so, they knew: not all of them would survive. Who would live? Who would die? And who would be the one to deliver the message alive?" --Defend: "Castle Ro: Might Upon High. With the Empire dispersing the Prince's forces, morale was low for the country of Vestol. Murmurs abound the textiles and blacksmiths alike on the expedition towards this battleground suggested an air of defeat for the Humble Country, submission to the Empire, even. The Prince had decided: 'Now is the time to show them why we are humble, for beneath each man and woman here lies the ferocity and tenacity of a thousand subjects of the Empire!' The two forces, separated from the ambush of Lawrencia, reunited, and ensnared Castle Ro in a pincer's strike. Fighting on two fronts, the Prince seized the place from General Naevec's cold, dead grip. Vestol had retaken Ro. But in the Empire's tremendous battalion of pegasus and owl riders, set to swarm the palace, the question still remained: could Vestol weather the storm of the Empire, and instill hope in her subjects?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerserg Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 @Kysafen Not sure if this was the right place to put all that but I don't know If I could disagree with you more on a lot of that stuff. I do agree we should have more varied mission goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlordsd Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I agree that there should be more mission types, but what other mission types should there be? I loved the escape missions mostly on principal, because they represented something important that awakening completely botched: Not all battles are winnable. Sometimes, you have to retreat. Awakening was so obsessed with its idiotic "change fate" message that it never put you in a situation where you truly felt threatened. Chrom just went everywhere, beat up everything, and that was that. The first half was interesting, because Emmeryn actually died, but even that wasn't because the enemy forces were somehow victorious. Sorry, that was a bit off topic, but it did really annoy me. I am really curious to hear if anyone has any good ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlordsd Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Oh, and I agree with Kysafen's rant completely. Awakening prioritized Quantity over Quality, and I think that's why a lot of the supports fell flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabethegreen Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I want to see a few new classes and playable soldiers and no world map or at least no grinding on the world map Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlordsd Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I think grinding is inevitable, as regards support conversations. Honestly, what I'd like is an improved version of the FE8 Tower of Valni/Other dungeons. My idea is that they could have a weak sort of map that you can use to grind out support convos, but that is intentionally set up so that it doesn't actually give you much exp/items. But the biggest thing I loved about FE8, the thing I think they did right, is randomly generated post game dungeons. I thought that was a great idea, and I'd love to see that come back. Especially if they can add optional, super hard bosses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) There a lots of threads with this topic in this section so it's time for copypasting once more: My wishes: light magic => magic weapon triangle staves like sleep, silence and berserk and maybe some new staves ballistas weapon weight (however it has to be fixed for mages) anima long range tomes steal command for thieves much more mission types (defend, escape, rout mission in XX turns) bringing third tier class back instead of endless reclassing Maybe I can think of more... I know it won't happen anyway. Edited January 15, 2015 by The Taninator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlordsd Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I agree with everything Taninator said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 A good 2-gen system or none at all. Look guys, can we all agree that Seisen no Keifu is the obvious superior of the games when it came to generations because the story demanded you use them?I can agree it's better, but that's not to say I think it's actually good. Awakening's was almost if not completely optional, and thereby pointless: did you get a different ending for recruiting all the children? No. Did their presence (sans Lucina) in the main game actually CHANGE anything about the main story? Not a damn thing.Guess what? The same thing can be said of Genealogy! What happens if you kill off, say, Aira and never get Lakche and Skasha? Does it really have that big of an impact on the story as a whole? What happens if you kill off all the mothers in the first generation, thereby preventing you from recruiting any of the children characters? Does the story as a whole change, or do you still get essentially the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlordsd Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Well Genealogy was over a decade ago, I think the point is you'd have expected some improvement by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kysafen Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I can agree it's better, but that's not to say I think it's actually good. You missed my point: Seisen no Keifu actually incentivized players to marry the first generation through its gameplay mechanics and narrative flow; you're going to be playing through the second generation whether you like it or not. Do the Child characters play any effect on the second half's narrative? No. Do you have incentive to utilize the generational system being that the game mechanically rewards that you do? Hell yes. Awakening gave the players little to no incentive to recruit, let alone use any of the child characters because your roster would already be filled with powerful units by the time you get them, and made no effort to provide players incentive otherwise, such as, potentially, altering the story and/or changing the ending. I can agree it's better, but that's not to say I think it's actually good. Better != good. It's better to be $200 in debt than $2,000,000 in debt. Also, as an idea to balance grinding, the fatigue system should not only be in place, but also should be ignored when it comes to "grind" maps, and then deduct 30 points of fatigue every time you finish a full chapter, should your unit be overfatigued. Example: you grind Franz up to level 19 with 36 HP, and you can deploy him to Valni despite his fatigue being over 180. He levels up to level 20, and from his actions on the map he gets fatigued 20 points, making him at 200 fatigue. Now he has to stay benched for at least 6 chapters to reduce his fatigue to 20, since you overfatigued him. So you want to make someone incredibly strong? You better be prepared to risk benching that unit when it could really, really count. Easy mode: Fatigue only happens on grind maps Casual mode: You can deploy an overfatigued unit to a main chapter, but his/her stats will be reduced Normal mode: Fatigue happens on all maps. Edited January 15, 2015 by Kysafen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerserg Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Oh, and I agree with Kysafen's rant completely. Awakening prioritized Quantity over Quality, and I think that's why a lot of the supports fell flat. I don't know anyone outside of these forums who had a problem with how the supports worked in Fire Emblem outside of them not having enough. I got a lot of people to buy awakening and it seemed the overwelming issue people had with support is that females and males for the most part could only support the other sex. It really made it about shipping the whole game when after you get an S rank I think most people wanted to explore dynamics between other characters. I also the the generic father conversations were a bit dull (and Mother in Lucina's case) after the first run through, sort of broke the immersion. 3rd classes returning would be fantastic, I wouldn't mind not reclassing if we had three ranks of progression but I do like second seal for a whole lot of reasons. Stops horrible RNG, allows for really varied personalized characters, and I just think it was a fun thing to do after beating the game to get everyone to every job they could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonLord Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 RD had those too. But yes. I agree. Haha, have yet to play RD. Either way, I would like to see it return as it was not present in Awakening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlordsd Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't know anyone outside of these forums who had a problem with how the supports worked in Fire Emblem outside of them not having enough. I got a lot of people to buy awakening and it seemed the overwelming issue people had with support is that females and males for the most part could only support the other sex. It really made it about shipping the whole game when after you get an S rank I think most people wanted to explore dynamics between other characters. I also the the generic father conversations were a bit dull (and Mother in Lucina's case) after the first run through, sort of broke the immersion. Sorry, yeah, when I said "fell flat" this is what I meant. There were definitely some good ones, but overall I think the system could be refined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerserg Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Sorry, yeah, when I said "fell flat" this is what I meant. There were definitely some good ones, but overall I think the system could be refined. Oh in that case I totally agree I simply misunderstood you. Feel Flat just felt a little hash. The previous support systems just failed to please me, after playing awakening going back to previous games I couldn't stand the 5 support limit. To me that is worse then what awakening did and awakening was a step for hopefully this game to take it and slam dunk support systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoleo21 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Remove Children, they don't have a place in the theme of this game Rework S-ranks to have Same sex S-ranks and non marriage S-ranks No world map and instead use a linear branching structure based on multiple possible objectives that could also lock off after doing certain ones, thereby influencing part of the story Main Missions have more variety such as Defend and escape Maps have more elevation and more gimmicks like Breakable walls Bring Back casual mode (I'd like to do some experimental runs from time to time) Pair up has a disadvantage to some stats like movement Push Returns (and you can't push a pair up) More activate-able abilities like Gamble (But remove galeforce and the Rally commands) An MU with a stark personality and isn't secretly an amnesiac monster like Robin. My most important want: A more focused story, Awakening tried to do too much with three completely separated ideas alongside being a final fanservice as well as being IS's test of their 3ds engine. Here we have the West Vs East Conflict, a potential monster situation and the dancer girl. Looks easier to tie together than awakening's subplots to me. Edited January 16, 2015 by Neoleo21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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