Anacybele Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) So, almost every FE game has had a support system of some sort and it's a staple in the series. You make your units converse with one another to build up support and get bonuses during battles, like stat boosts. The stat boosts are most prominent in Awakening. But the support system has worked differently in each game for the most part. In the GBA games, you had to keep two units standing next to each other for a bizarre amount of turns to get them to support. In PoR, you only had to have units fight in the same battle, they didn't have to stand next to each other, and it didn't take nearly as many turns as in the GBA games. RD let you support anyone with anyone, but at the cost of quality conversations. Each conversation was really basic and didn't have much to it. Awakening lets you support many different units and you're allowed to get as many A supports as you'd like, but each character can only have one S support. The S support was added because of the marriage system. Which system do you want to see in this game? Or do you want something new? I think we need a combination of PoR's and Awakening's systems. What made me love PoR's support conversations was not only did they have quality writing and develop some characters (Jill is a notable one), but they actually tied in with the story. You might, say, put Ike and Oscar in the same battle long enough for them to support, but you wouldn't actually be able to trigger the conversation until a certain point of the game so it can tie in with everything going on. Awakening, however, just botched that completely. You can view any conversation at any time as long as the pair of units has enough support points. This caused wacky loopholes in some instances. For example, you marry Cordelia to Stahl, and then Cordelia later gets enough support points with Frederick to trigger a conversation with him. But when you see what they talk about, it makes NO sense at all at this point. Cordelia goes on about her crush on Chrom, but she's already married to Stahl. Just...yeah lolwut. But what Awakening DOES do right is give plenty of pairing and support options while still having some quality to the writing (not all of the supports are good, but some definitely are) and make it easy to build lots of supports because of pair-up making it easy to get a lot of support points. RD lacked a lot of pairing options, and imo, that hurt its replayability a bit. So stack PoR's story-related quality support conversations with Awakening's number of options and support points method I think we'd hit the jackpot here. The game doesn't necessarily need as many options as Awakening had, even a little less or the number of options we saw in FE7 and FE8 would be fine. But yeah. What do you guys think? Edited January 17, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think the combo of PoR and Awakening support styles is a good idea. In-game, I like the idea of having pairings and stuff (it's when people go on a shipping crusade on the Internet that bugs me), I also really liked how supports tied in with events and I think supports should also help serve world building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Yeah, supports can definitely help with world building too, good point. Two characters from different countries could support and end up talking about what their respective nations are like and give us a bit of a history lesson. Can't believe I didn't think of that sooner. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxSpes Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 This is pretty much how I think the best support system could be. While I liked the sheer amount of options Awakening gave us, it left us with some supports that could be pretty repetitive and bland. Limiting the amount of support but making sure each one lets us learn something new about the characters and the world they inhabit as well as let us know more details about the main plot (while making sure these supports are not a pain to unlock) would be fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stewart Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think you've misunderstood PoR's support system it's not based on turns at all, just on how many battles two units have taken part in together. (This is actually the same system used in FE11 and 12. Yes, SD has supports, just not conversations.) You also didn't mention FE4's love points system. It's like a combination of the GBA system and the FE9/11/12 one. Two units will gain a certain number of points naturally, but you can augment that by positioning them next to each other. Anyway, the FE9/11/12 method (just have two units fight in a battle together) is my favourite, but in a game like Awakening (i.e. one with an open map and infinite grinding), I don't feel that system would work. I think the one Awakening has is actually quite nice for itself. The only thing I'd maybe add is a passive support growth like in FE4, but I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think you've misunderstood PoR's support system it's not based on turns at all, just on how many battles two units have taken part in together. Really? I honestly hadn't known this and I've played through PoR many times. o.O Man I feel kind of dumb. But it's still my favorite support system. You also didn't mention FE4's love points system. Er, that's because I've never played FE4, so I didn't know such a thing existed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Stewart Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Er, that's because I've never played FE4, so I didn't know such a thing existed... Well, now you know. And knowing is half the battle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The only thing I'd maybe add is a passive support growth like in FE4, but I dunno. That would be extremely annoying. Imagine the amount of unwanted flashing S-rank icons there would be. FE4's jealousy system is certainly something that could fit in, though. Anyway, mechanically Awakening's worked just fine, though I would like to see some content alterations so supports with units who are already S-ranked don't seem as awkward and the supports mention events that happen in the main story. Adding additional post-S supports would also be nice, but would also take a lot more work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 That would be extremely annoying. Imagine the amount of unwanted flashing S-rank icons there would be. That honestly sounds good to me :B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Party Moth Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) My ideal support system for the next Fire Emblem game is this: Retain Awakening's feature of being able to reach every A support in a single run. That aspect is one of the few improvements Awakening offered over previous games, so it should stay. However, supports per character should be limited to around 5-8, with varying ratios of male : female. Too many supports will lead to the issues of quality that plagued Awakening's supports. S supports should be retained and still be limited to one per person. Characters would have about 1-4 different characters they can achieve an S support with. However, they should not be limited to male-female supports, instead extending to male-male and female-female ones as well. S supports should not, however, be awkward marriage confessions; they should instead guarantee a paired character ending for the two characters and subtly hint at the eventual outcome. Paired endings should consist of a myriad of marriages, romantic relationships that don't end in marriage, love affairs, lifelong bonds of friendship, familial bonding, and a few tragic endings. This is the best mix between GBA-era supports and Awakening's style of supports I can think of that cuts down on both countless GBA playthroughs of "5 supports only" and the thin writing quality of Awakening supports. Edited January 17, 2015 by Duels at Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIceTeaPeach Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Actually I would like the FE10 1x1 support system, if the conversations weren't be so bland. Gameplaywise it was excellent, because you can cancel and recover the support any time in the game. In the other parts you can only break the support, if one of the two characters dies. If the conversations are better, I definitely go for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soen Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 If FE14 has grinding and a map like Awakening, PoR's support system would be silly. You could litterally have all the supports completed as soon as it's given the opportunity of using something like Reeking Boxes or DLC. I'd prefer to have a limited number of supports per run, with a possibility to reach S-rank(but no children please). That would make convos much more tought out and not bland as they were in Awakening. In games like GBA ones, supports were a way to not only make your units stronger, but also to discover their past, their interests and their feelings about what's happening in the game. To make an example, someone who has never played FE7 sees that Rebecca can support with Dart. Normally, it would be strange that a pirate has any link to a village girl, but through supports you discover(I'll put it under spoiler if anyone hasn't played FE7/doesn't want to know) that they're long lost brothers. For Awakening I feel like they went for quantity over quality when the developers were making the game - probably because it might have been the last one - and I hope that doesn't happen again. I still wonder what were they smoking when they tought of "since we've seen each other naked, let's get married". IMO, M!Avatar and Tharja have one of the best S-rank Supports of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Cero Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 If this games is linear then I would most definitely want PoR's system. If it's a world map though, then Awakening's system would work just fine. I mostly think that the actual content of supports need to be reworked. Before when supports were limited they tended to have a resolution for the characters involved. With the infinite supports going on this would result in character regression as seen in Awakening since normally you're only supposed to get one ending. I really hope IS finds a solution for this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Since I'm basically the only person ever who prefers bizarre amounts of turns and in battle supports from GBA, I'd say combine GBA and PoR, with in battle supports and gaining points by standing together/pairing up, but still gain points by deploying together. That way, those who like grinding supports, like me, get what they want, and LTC'ers are happy too. Also, bring back the five convo limit. Added a lot more to picking supports and replayability. And it would fit the choices theme too. Also, remove everyonexeveryone. Limit it back to around 7~10 like GBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I still wonder what were they smoking when they tought of "since we've seen each other naked, let's get married". Wat. Which support is this in? I think yeah, combine PoR and Awakening style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassyWolf Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Wat. Which support is this in? F!Avatar/Chrom I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 F!Avatar/Chrom I believe. Figured that. But wasn't it only one way around? He sees her in the shower, not the other way around, so "each other" wouldn't be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Figured that. But wasn't it only one way around? He sees her in the shower, not the other way around, so "each other" wouldn't be the case.Nope, it's both. Chrom sees her in B and she sees him in A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soen Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Figured that. But wasn't it only one way around? He sees her in the shower, not the other way around, so "each other" wouldn't be the case. He sees her naked in the B Support, then she sees him naked in the A one. In the S support they marry. Really realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirie Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) I like the Awakening style of supports in general, but I do think there should be some changes. I'd like to see S-supports stay along with an unlimited number of A-supports, but I'd prefer the total support pool for each character to be smaller and the S-support pool smaller still, and have both gendered options for both S- and A-supports. S-supports should also not be marriage right on the spot, but simply an acknowledgment of a deeper bond with marriage (and non-marriage together pairings) given at the end of the game. I'd also like to see the content altered to be more like supports from earlier in the series that delved deeper into character's pasts and histories; we got some of that in FE:A (Gaius/Maribelle's support comes to mind), but not very many, which is a shame considering that supports are traditionally the way that we get the most characterization for non-main units. I'd also like to see the supports be a bit more varied in content rather than simply hammering a chosen character's traits over and over again (Cordelia's supports in particular come to mind here) or other non-sequiturs (Chrom/FemAv, for example). I'd also like to see there not be any characters with extremely limited support options like Anna, Tiki, Say'ri, Flavia, and Basilio had; the lack of supports made those characters much weaker than they could have been otherwise, and served to make them feel more like second-class citizens. Edited January 17, 2015 by Kirie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Yeah,the Chrom//Female Avatar support was one of the dumbest in the game and is a reason I don't like that pairing. But this isn't a shipping war thread, so moving on. I also agree that everyone x everyone shouldn't be a thing. Even in real life, a soldier isn't going to talk to and befriend every single person in his squadron, or even want to. It just doesn't work realistically AND it lowers the quality of the conversations. Yeah, I'm one for realism. I like things being realistic because then I can take it more seriously and get more immersed and hooked to the plot. I also like the idea of keeping S supports even if they don't automatically make the characters married. It still gives you a whole extra conversation! Edited January 17, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirie Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) I also like the idea of keeping S supports even if they don't automatically make the characters married. It still gives you a whole extra conversation! Most importantly, in my mind anyway, it kind of makes it more of a special bond between two characters, whether that bond is romantic, or best friends, or super rivals, or whatever have you. I think that's more realistic than simply allowing units to have a bunch of A supports and be equal friends with everyone. And if you're only limited to one A support, then it's just like an S support then, just one level lower to build up. Edited January 17, 2015 by Kirie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Yeah, that's a good point too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Actually I would like the FE10 1x1 support system, if the conversations weren't be so bland. Gameplaywise it was excellent, because you can cancel and recover the support any time in the game. In the other parts you can only break the support, if one of the two characters dies. If the conversations are better, I definitely go for this. This. Gameplay-wise, I like being able to pair any characters I want, but I dunno how many "Hello, good to see I'm not the only one fighting" I can tolerate now. Edited January 17, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 My favorite system would be more limited S supports, as said earlier in the thread. This would hopefully keep quality and improve the believability of a relationship, and make it deeper, too. An interesting system would be if supports also influence the choices/course of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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