I'm tired of people saying games are too easy these days.

[Kon]

Well, that "Fuck Skyward Sword" comment really ticked me off, so I thought I'd try to show you how I felt about it.

This is a better way to explain things here to me. Thanks, Dual Dragons, now I see where I was misunderstanding others. I felt like I was being attacked because as Kon said, I was the first to bring up Skyward Sword, then someone else mentioned not liking it, then I responded and the rest is history.

Really it just made me sad that you would do that just to get back at me, though I can't say I was surprised.

No one was or is attacking you, Ana. You really need to understand that. People are allowed to share their opinions on things, especially when it is brought up in the opening post.

[Sunwoo]

You need to stop making yourself into a victim over everything, Ana. Life is so much happier when you just don't.

Also, I don't care how much easier games nowadays are, Etrian Odyssey is still evil. And I love it.

[Original Alear]

Strange, I found TWW to be one of the easiest games I ever played. The monsters were pathetic, the dungeons were super easy to figure out, and Ganondorf wasn't hard either. The only part that had ANY kind of challenge was the Puppet Ganon battle, and even then, I only died once. That was the only time in the game I ever died on my first playthrough. I died at least a dozen times in Skyward Sword, and the enemies got way tricker to beat. Especially the ones where you had to hit them a certain way in order to do damage.

Hmm. The only part I remember being challenging was the final fight with Ganon. I didn't really know what I was supposed to do in terms of the swordfighting, but I sort of flailed around and beat him on my first try without having any strategy in particular.

But I'm still shit at old school Mario and Sonic. I'm ashamed to admit that.

You know, back when I played Super Mario Bros 3 for the NES as a little kid, I usually got stuck in giant world or water world (and it took a lot of playing before I could even get that far without a whistle). But when I played it on GBA, I got through the entire game without a game over on my first try (granted, I could save at that time so I didn't have to do it all in one session). Then, for one reason or another, I ended up playing the original Mario 3 again...and I died on world 2! I think that the mechanics of the NES mario 3 are actually faster or something than in the GBA Mario 3, because I found making precise jumps a lot harder.

Also, I thought Skyward Sword was OK. The silent realms really weren't very hard IMO. Maybe 2-3 tries max. To be honest I actually rather liked them. Fi was dumb but ignorable, at least for me (I tend to be kind of hard to annoy when it comes to pointless dialogue ;) ). I do agree with Loki saying that ALBW was much better. With the exception of Majora's Mask I tend to strongly favor overhead zelda to 3d zelda, so that's a thing.

The hardest part of SS for me was actually the scorpion boss. Simply because I sucked at executing stab attacks at that time, and therefore had a lot of trouble damaging the boss. One other thing I did not like about the game was how pointless and boring exploring the sky realm was. It was like WW's great ocean except worse, and you had omnidirectional movement.

I've been playing the original legend of zelda again on my 3ds. I really have to say, I enjoy how unpredictable enemy movement seems to be in that game. Really keeps you on your toes. And gets me killed a lot. Fuck wizzrobes.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I gotta agree some of the NES games are just brutal just look at the Ninja Gaiden trilogy and yeah Zelda II is just nightmarish. I do think there are hard games out there though like some of the ones I mentioned and I still love em to death though.

And sorry I guess I didn't realize I was complaining at all. I'll try to refrain...

Actually my last line was meant for Ana. The whole post itself was meant for you and Ana but the last one is exclusive because she does in fact complain a lot.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Sirius

[Anacybele]

because she does in fact complain a lot.

I fail to see how this is at all true. And now I really AM being attacked here. So I would thank you to stop.

[Kon]

I fail to see how this is at all true. And now I really AM being attacked here. So I would thank you to stop.

The entire reason you started the thread was to complain about people complaining.

You've also complained about people liking Hoenn, wanting Chrom to be in SSB4, people not thinking Ike would win against literally everything, ChromXFeMU, IkeXSoren, ElinciaXGeoffery, people criticizing you, your writing, disagreeing with your opinion(s), etc., etc., etc.

I can provide quotes if you want proof

[Anacybele]

Okay, maybe I complained about some of those things a LONG time ago. But I certainly do not complain about critique these days, nor do I think Ike would win against literally everything, nor do I complain about people disagreeing with my opinions (I had no complaint with people disliking Skyward Sword, I only had a complaint with how they were presenting their disagreement). Also, sometimes complaints are well-placed and I felt that my complaint in the OP of this thread was just that.

Also, you act like I'm the only one around here that complains about anything. And that's certainly not true.

[eclipse]

I fail to see how this is at all true. And now I really AM being attacked here. So I would thank you to stop.

Rather than outright complaining about this, I strongly suggest you take a step back and try to see why people think the way they do - perhaps this is something that YOU can fix. This isn't the first time it's happened.

Also, I don't care how much easier games nowadays are, Etrian Odyssey is still evil. And I love it.

Etrian Odyssey and easy are antonyms, and I want them to stay that way.

For the rest of the games, stuff like Pokemon is easy for me, because I'm well aware of how certain mechanics work (types, moves, etc.). Once I step outside of my comfort zone, games feel like they're harder - they could've been "dumbed down" over the years, but I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I think it's a matter of perspective.

[Kon]

Okay, maybe I complained about some of those things a LONG time ago. But I certainly do not complain about critique these days, nor do I think Ike would win against literally everything, nor do I complain about people disagreeing with my opinions (I had no complaint with people disliking Skyward Sword, I only had a complaint with how they were presenting their disagreement). Also, sometimes complaints are well-placed and I felt that my complaint in the OP of this thread was just that.

Also, you act like I'm the only one around here that complains about anything. And that's certainly not true.

These complaints were just from the past year with the exception of the EnciaXGeoffery thing.

I never said nor implied such a thing. Sirius pointed out that you frequently complain and you said you didn't think that was true, so I provided some examples from memory. And sometimes the complaints are well placed, but oftentimes yours are not.

[Vashiane]

If any game wants the award for Most Painful Tutorial, Skyward Sword's not taking that medal home.

That's going to Kingdom Hearts 2.

And actually, if there's any series I can look at and say, "Okay I like this but it's got its flaws like damn," it would be Kingdom Hearts.

And for a game that's more centered for a kid's/teenager's demographic, the difficulty level is bullshit.

The actual 13-year-old shouldn't be rage-quitting over the second world in the game.

[Florete]

Not this shit again.

Ana, seriously, stop pulling the victim card. It does absolutely nothing except make you look whiny. It doesn't help you defend your case, it doesn't get people to stop, and it doesn't make anyone sympathetic towards you. If you legitimately think you're being attacked/flamed/trolled/etc., report it. You don't have to respond to everything. Often times it is best to just let things go.

[Anacybele]

These complaints were just from the past year with the exception of the EnciaXGeoffery thing.

I never said nor implied such a thing. Sirius pointed out that you frequently complain and you said you didn't think that was true, so I provided some examples from memory. And sometimes the complaints are well placed, but oftentimes yours are not.

And even within a year, things can change a lot. I don't complain about a lot of those things anymore. Trust me, in just the past HALF year alone, I've been trying to listen to people like Sangyul/Sunwoo on taking a look at myself and fixing any issues I had that I didn't see before. My eyes were opened and I started working to change and stop the bad.

This isn't the topic of the thread though, if you wish to continue this, PM me. Even though I would prefer not to.

To get back on topic, something else about Zelda baffles me relating to its difficulty. People bashed TWW for being too easy and having "kiddy" graphics, now it's popular. Then TP came out and it was bashed for being too easy and it taking far too long to get to the first dungeon and all. It was also bashed for poor usage of items (people said you didn't get to use any of the items enough). Now people love it. Skyward Sword is now the victim of the criticizing. I just see a weird trend here, is all.

I never disliked TWW's graphics though. In fact, I really like them. I also liked TP's. And Skyward Sword's.

Ana, seriously, stop pulling the victim card. It does absolutely nothing except make you look whiny. It doesn't help you defend your case, it doesn't get people to stop, and it doesn't make anyone sympathetic towards you. If you legitimately think you're being attacked/flamed/trolled/etc., report it. You don't have to respond to everything. Often times it is best to just let things go.

I know, I don't think I was being attacked anymore (except when I was told I complain too much). I misunderstood (like I seem to still do too often...) and I really do apologize.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Anacybele

[Quintessence]

Omg pages pages and pages.

I missed PuffPuff's quote but it is ok that if a game is easy then you can make it harder by adding restrictions while if a game is hard then you might have a chance at making it easier or at least play it in a easier difficulty; but the point is not making difficulty a subjective concept in which the player needs to create a separate difficulty with self-imposed challenges and resource restrictions (sure, do it just to have fun and anyways, what else can the player do?). But take Bayonetta 2 as an example when it is more balanced than its prequel, the game itself has a nice difficulty level including the resources the game puts at the player's disposal, but it is a natural difficulty, not an artifical difficulty the player needs for customization and fun's sake.

EDIT

SO MANY POSTS AT THE TIME I MISSED THEM WHILE POSTING. Sorry if unnecessary but:

On the other hand, Ana, you need to change the way you take things and criticism, you're stuck in the position of victim where you take things defensively and think the world is against yo: no one is against you or bashes you because you like this or that.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Quintessence

[kingddd]

If any game wants the award for Most Painful Tutorial, Skyward Sword's not taking that medal home.

That's going to Kingdom Hearts 2.

And actually, if there's any series I can look at and say, "Okay I like this but it's got its flaws like damn," it would be Kingdom Hearts.

And for a game that's more centered for a kid's/teenager's demographic, the difficulty level is bullshit.

The actual 13-year-old shouldn't be rage-quitting over the second world in the game.

Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 for me in general takes a long time to get to the meat of the game. The presentation is nice and all but the pacing does take forever to get to where you want to. This is especially an issue where the games have different difficulty options. If you beaten the game and you want to replay it in higher difficulty, you want the option to skip those tutorials and unfortunately, you cannot for majority of the time. I personally think this is a design flaw that some games need to consider when implementing different difficulty systems.

Mario & Luigi RPG series also has a similar issue where a simple new mechanic requires a 3 minute tutorial of please press the L button to switch to this new powerup you just acquired. It is not a difficult mechanic to understand if you are an intermediate gamer but it can be very aggravating for someone who is a long time series player. The handholding can get pretty annoying. This is even worse that the fact in order to play the higher difficulty in Mario & Luigi 4, you need to beaten the game first and if you play hard mode, those tutorials are still mandatory.

Edited February 4, 2015 by kingddd

[shadowofchaos]

If any game wants the award for Most Painful Tutorial, Skyward Sword's not taking that medal home.

That's going to Kingdom Hearts 2.

And actually, if there's any series I can look at and say, "Okay I like this but it's got its flaws like damn," it would be Kingdom Hearts.

And for a game that's more centered for a kid's/teenager's demographic, the difficulty level is bullshit.

The actual 13-year-old shouldn't be rage-quitting over the second world in the game.

The worst part is that Critical Mode is an even bigger step in difficulty, halving your HP and essentially giving regular enemies 1 hit KO's on you.

Then again I'm the elitist that has had plenty of practice since I got Final Mix YEARS ago.

But yeah, if you watch all the cutscenes it's 3 hours long and... KH2 has the most hand-holdy tutorial I've experienced.

Edited February 4, 2015 by shadowofchaos

[Dual Dragons]

This is a better way to explain things here to me. Thanks, Dual Dragons, now I see where I was misunderstanding others. I felt like I was being attacked because as Kon said, I was the first to bring up Skyward Sword, then someone else mentioned not liking it, then I responded and the rest is history.

No worries. Just keep working on breathing in and out and letting things go in better ways.

You know, back when I played Super Mario Bros 3 for the NES as a little kid, I usually got stuck in giant world or water world (and it took a lot of playing before I could even get that far without a whistle). But when I played it on GBA, I got through the entire game without a game over on my first try (granted, I could save at that time so I didn't have to do it all in one session). Then, for one reason or another, I ended up playing the original Mario 3 again...and I died on world 2! I think that the mechanics of the NES mario 3 are actually faster or something than in the GBA Mario 3, because I found making precise jumps a lot harder.

I have one of the Sonic collection games on PS2. Cannot complete a single game.

My friends and I tried the Genesis Sonic game since one of them likes that game. We Game Over'd.

The only Sonic games I could complete were after Sonic's "proper" introduction to 3D, so the Sonic Adventure series. I bet Colors would be up my alley as well.

Now Mario is a different beast because I play the more spin-off-y ones like Paper Mario and Mario Party but I apparently am pretty skilled in New Super Mario Bros. when it comes to helping out my friend getting the special coins.

Maybe it is what you said about the speed thing. My tastes are very slow by comparison so that would make it seem old school Mario and Sonic are so hard for me. Haha.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Dual Dragons

[Sentacotus]

In reference to one of my earlier posts about the Ninja Gaiden trilogy on the NES. Seriously who would do this to themselves?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t2YvyLqw3c&spfreload=10

Edited February 4, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Zera]

Unfortunately, difficulty is not the one and only factor to take into consideration when choosing what game to play, so that doesn't work. A game could have many selling points but also be rock-bottom in difficulty- would you suggest that I fix that by moving to a game with fewer/different/less important to me selling points that has higher difficulty? If what I want is to play easy game A and be challenged, changing to difficult game B is not a fix for that because I'm not getting what I want- it would be challenging, but not game A and I want both.

Unfortunately, there is a very real possibility that the game you want simply doesn't exist. In the real world, there are no hard games that play like Kirby, or easy games that play like Ikaruga. In this case, your best bet is to ask a friend (or me) for a suitable alternative, or become a game developer yourself.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

In reference to one of my earlier posts about the Ninja Gaiden trilogy on the NES. Seriously who would do this to themselves?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t2YvyLqw3c&spfreload=10

I've actually beaten the whole game without dying in one run. It just took many playthroughs.

It's the same thing with every game really.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Sirius

[Original Alear]

I have one of the Sonic collection games on PS2. Cannot complete a single game.

My friends and I tried the Genesis Sonic game since he likes that game. We Game Over'd.

The only Sonic games I could complete were after Sonic's "proper" introduction to 3D, so the Sonic Adventure series. I bet Colors would be up my alley as well.

Now Mario is a different beast because I play the more spin-off-y ones like Paper Mario and Mario Party but I apparently am pretty skilled in New Super Mario Bros. when it comes to helping out my friend getting the special coins.

Maybe it is what you said about the speed thing. My tastes are very slow by comparison so that would make it seem old school Mario and Sonic are so hard for me. Haha.

I've never actually owned a genesis sonic game. I played #2 a fair amount at a number of different friends' and relatives' houses. Eventually I emulated 1 and 2...I really hated how #2's final boss level doesn't have any rings AFAIK, so you have to beat the bosses without getting hit once.

I've been playing some of the somewhat more recent sonic games because humble bundle had Sonic Adventure 1 and Sonic Generations, and then steam also had sonic adventure 2 selling in their store. Sonic Generations (at least for the PC) is pretty damn fun if you ask me. It does involve more gotta go fast than the adventure games, though. The adventure games, if you played them, are also good IMO, but I think they are a bit less polished. Sometimes the treasure hunting stages gave me grief.

Generations is actually much easier for me to get good ranks on than the Adventure games, though. I usually got E through C rank on sonic adventure 1 and 2 levels, but I usually get As on generations levels. That's in part because generations doesn't seem to consider your ring count in your ranking...they just go by time.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Severlan

[Kon]

And even within a year, things can change a lot. I don't complain about a lot of those things anymore. Trust me, in just the past HALF year alone, I've been trying to listen to people like Sangyul/Sunwoo on taking a look at myself and fixing any issues I had that I didn't see before. My eyes were opened and I started working to change and stop the bad.

This isn't the topic of the thread though, if you wish to continue this, PM me. Even though I would prefer not to.

To get back on topic, something else about Zelda baffles me relating to its difficulty. People bashed TWW for being too easy and having "kiddy" graphics, now it's popular. Then TP came out and it was bashed for being too easy and it taking far too long to get to the first dungeon and all. It was also bashed for poor usage of items (people said you didn't get to use any of the items enough). Now people love it. Skyward Sword is now the victim of the criticizing. I just see a weird trend here, is all.

I never disliked TWW's graphics though. In fact, I really like them. I also liked TP's. And Skyward Sword's.

I know, I don't think I was being attacked anymore (except when I was told I complain too much). I misunderstood (like I seem to still do too often...) and I really do apologize.

You certainly have been improving, just keep at it and you'l get better \^o^/

As for the shifting opinions, that's really all it is. Back when Wind Waker was first released, a lot of people were still really sour about the drastic change from Ocarina of Time, so most didn't like it all too well. But as tie went on people went back to it (or new people played it) and suddenly woah holy shit this game was good the whole time?!?! I remember TP being more popular at release, though I remember not liking it too much because of the really long tutorial and the fucking Water Temple D; I think people just started liking it more because it doesn't have to be the best game ever for it to be fun to play to people.

And with Skyward Sword, that's mostly hype backlash. Skyward Sword was set up to be the best Zelda evar with all the bells and whistles you could ask for (and then some), but the game fell flat for... a lot of reasons. Some of the characters are still well liked at least, especially Groose~

[Sentacotus]

I've actually beaten the whole game without dying in one run. It just took many playthroughs.

It's the same thing with every game really.

That third one though...shudders...

[Zera]

I remember TP being more popular at release, though I remember not liking it too much because of the really long tutorial and the fucking Water Temple D; I think people just started liking it more because it doesn't have to be the best game ever for it to be fun to play to people.

I liked the Lakebed Temple. It's rare that I almost get lost in a dungeon, and using the rotating staircase to direct the water flow was awesome. I hope Zelda Wii U has some really crazy dungeons.

[Kon]

I was incredibly lost for most of the dungeon, and the rotating staircase was pretty cool, but that just made the navigation harder for me D;

[Dual Dragons]

I've never actually owned a genesis sonic game. I played #2 a fair amount at a number of different friends' and relatives' houses. Eventually I emulated 1 and 2...I really hated how #2's final boss level doesn't have any rings AFAIK, so you have to beat the bosses without getting hit once.

I've been playing some of the somewhat more recent sonic games because humble bundle had Sonic Adventure 1 and Sonic Generations, and then steam also had sonic adventure 2 selling in their store. Sonic Generations (at least for the PC) is pretty damn fun if you ask me. It does involve more gotta go fast than the adventure games, though. The adventure games, if you played them, are also good IMO, but I think they are a bit less polished. Sometimes the treasure hunting stages gave me grief.

Generations is actually much easier for me to get good ranks on than the Adventure games, though. I usually got E through C rank on sonic adventure 1 and 2 levels, but I usually get As on generations levels. That's in part because generations doesn't seem to consider your ring count in your ranking...they just go by time.

I rented Adventure DX and I think finished it? I own GC Adventure 2 Battle and I do like that game despite its camera controls being fucked and the action button being finicky at times. Not too long ago I got all the Emblems for that game :D. I own Advance... 2 or 3? Maybe both? I can't remember if I finished those.

I was on the fence to try Generations since I'm not a Sonic fan or anything but maybe I can go for it if it goes on a really good sale. Just recently made my first computer build. I wonder how much better it would look and play on PC than console.

In reference to one of my earlier posts about the Ninja Gaiden trilogy on the NES. Seriously who would do this to themselves?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pERNUuCRdJ8

You raise Ninja Gaiden, I raise Battletoads.

It gets so bad that one person kept dying in one stage and they wanted to turn off the infinite lives so they could restart the game from the beginning as opposed to restarting over and over on that stage.

I bet both games would make bad good drinking games.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Dual Dragons