fire emblem villians discussion

[Ownagepuffs]

Trabant is my favorite villain by far. No matter how evil his actions and how nationalistic his intentions, there's something perversely noble in how much he is willing to do to help his people. I especially love how he sacrifices himself in the end, probably in the hope that Arion will surrender to the liberation army (this isn't explicitly stated in game, but I think it's a reasonable interpretation.)

Trabant and Naesala have much in common, and I love both of them for that same reason. There is something wonderful about how much they are willing to do for Thracia and Kilvas.

[Topazd]

My other favorites (Arvis, Travant) have already been outlined above better than I personally could have done, but I still have to give the spot to Hardin.

His story might not be terribly unique, but the sheer contrast between his characterization and that of the series' antagonists' prior to him was remarkable. To be fair, his pre-Emperor characterization was almost nonexistent until BSFE/FE11, but there he's shown to be a humble man above all else - which we learn in FE3 to be in appearance only.

We see a man mentally weakened as a result of unrequited love and by extension, alcoholism, who thus could no longer suppress his feelings behind his guise of modesty when presented the Darksphere. Sure, Gharnef had his part in the mixture, but Hardin's resentment and envy towards Marth were both completely authentic, if rather pronounced by the sphere. His death quote is easily my favourite in the series, on top of all that.

As opposed to Gharnef, I honestly feel Boah was the greater offender when the events leading to FE3's plot are concerned, haha.

[Jedi]

Ah yes Hardin, he is such an interesting character and by extension Wolf (not a villain but he's kind of a similar to Finn style character despite appearing first).

Finn and Wolf is an interesting loyalty to their lord perspectives that I think could use its own thread speaking of which.

[Katie]

Definitely agree with Hardin.

And I see you guys' Arvis and Travant and raise you an Ishtar.

I also love Cervantes and Batta the Beast, assuming bosses count.

[Anacybele]

I can't see how Zelgius isn't a villain. He kills Gawain for shallow reasoning, and basically assists Ashnard to commit mass murder. The only reason he was remotely likable was that we had no idea he was the Black Knight.

Because the only evil thing he's done is kill Greil and try to kill Ike (he just couldn't kill Ike because Caineghis was nearby and roaring). Otherwise, even as the BK, he does some cool stuff. Zelgius helps Ike in the Mad King's War, then goes to defend Micaiah in Daein as the BK, and then the guy freaking has the sense to stand down and not attack a defenseless unarmed woman (referring to the chapter where Elincia disarms herself in an attempt to stop a battle from erupting on Crimean soil). Oh yeah, he also promised not to have his troops attack when Ike and the gang attempted to go back to Gallia and kept his word. They only ended up attacking anyway because of that creepy idiot Valtome.

Also, the reason Ike considered Zelgius his last teacher and gains some respect for him is BECAUSE of these good deeds he's done, methinks.

[Baldrick]

He was also helping Sephiran-sama kill off humanity (beorcity and laguzity?) so it depends on where you draw the line between villain and not-villain.

[-Cynthia-]

He kidnapped Leanne for Ashnard and likely killed a number of Crimean citizens in the Mad King's War as well (He probably would have had to prove his loyalty to Ashnard somehow or how else would he become one of the Four Riders?)

Edited March 7, 2015 by -Cynthia-

[IceBrand]

Because the only evil thing he's done is kill Greil and try to kill Ike (he just couldn't kill Ike because Caineghis was nearby and roaring). Otherwise, even as the BK, he does some cool stuff. Zelgius helps Ike in the Mad King's War, then goes to defend Micaiah in Daein as the BK, and then the guy freaking has the sense to stand down and not attack a defenseless unarmed woman (referring to the chapter where Elincia disarms herself in an attempt to stop a battle from erupting on Crimean soil). Oh yeah, he also promised not to have his troops attack when Ike and the gang attempted to go back to Gallia and kept his word. They only ended up attacking anyway because of that creepy idiot Valtome.

Also, the reason Ike considered Zelgius his last teacher and gains some respect for him is BECAUSE of these good deeds he's done, methinks.

Remember that Ike never got his full training from Greil. BK did. So he technical got his full training from Zelgius.

[Radiant head]

I have a hard time believing that he became Ashnard's right hand man and top of the four riders, and never actually helped him commit atrocities.

Zelgius is a sociopath who deludes himself into thinking he has honor. If they wanted to make him sympathetic, they could have at least given him a good reason to kill Greil. Not "I had to see if could surpass my master...but other than that I minimize casualties, I swear!"

The game obviously intends Zelgius to be some "honorable" antihero, but it's all nonsense. One of the reasons I think Radiant Dawn is such a mess when it comes to plot.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Radiant head

[Anacybele]

Yeah, but did Zelgius ever really know what Sephiran was actually trying to do? If he wanted all of humanity to die, why did he go and defend people like Micaiah and help her protect Daein?

Radiant Head, a sociopath is someone who likes to kill people and enjoys seeing them suffer. Given Zelgius's actions that I mentioned above, he is not like that.

[Radiant head]

A sociopath is someone who doesn't empathize. That's how I would describe someone who knowingly orphans two kids for the sake of personal satisfaction (at least Sephiran has a higher cause in his mind). Especially since he knows what happened to their mother.

Zelgius's character only makes sense if Zelgius is just an act. He pretends to be honorable when he shows his face, but he's secretly a monster.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Radiant head

[Just call me AL]

I'm a little bit of a sucker for the mysterious. So, Idun. We don't know much of her life, aside from being forced to become what's essentially a Shadow Divine Dragon. But I think that's what makes her so interesting. Looking like a Rule63!Sephiroth also helps in my book.

As for anyone else...

Arvis. Just... Arvis.

I could write a god damn thesis paper on why Arvis is one of the best villains in the series.

Took the words out of my head before I could even think of them yet again.

And I'm surprised not many people are bringing up Nergal. Granted, he's essentially evil for the sake of power. But the circumstances surrounding his quest for power make him pretty tragic if you ask me.

Ashnard, Travant, Zephiel, Lyon, Sephiran, Ishtar, and Hardin are fine too.

Gharnef, Sonia, and Manfroy would be more of the "love to hate" variety of favorite.

Anyway, what hurts me so much about Gangrel and Walhart is that they were perfect contrasts to Chrom. They were both already rulers whereas Chrom was suddenly thrust into the position. Rather than carry on Emm's dumb ideals and shove it in their faces, Chrom himself could have developed as a ruler, noticing that Emm's way was admirable yet wrong. He could have created his own ruling philosophies, shaped by his encounters with Gangrel and Walhart. This in turn would have made Chrom one of the best protagonists by far.

A-freaking-men. Maybe if Awakening didn't feel so rushed, stuff like this would have made it in, and Awakening would be one of this series' best games. But alas...

[Magical Glace]

Lyon. Lyon, Lyon, Lyon. He's the most sympathetic villain in the series, being an old friend of the lords driven mad by love and jealousy. At the same time, the lords actively do not want their friend to die/be consumed. It's just... heartbreaking.

Zephiel is a runner up. Guenivere explained his motives in FE6, after Roy asks if he killed his father, but it's FE7 that really brought his character home. His chapter name in FE6, the Neverending Dream, really says a lot about his desire to eradicate humanity after losing his faith in it. Feplus explained why I like him quite nicely.

Arvis as well, for reasons others have stated.

And Nergal for Aenir

Edited March 7, 2015 by Glaceon Mage

[IceBrand]

Yeah, but did Zelgius ever really know what Sephiran was actually trying to do? If he wanted all of humanity to die, why did he go and defend people like Micaiah and help her protect Daein?

Radiant Head, a sociopath is someone who likes to kill people and enjoys seeing them suffer. Given Zelgius's actions that I mentioned above, he is not like that.

All of that was part of Sephiran's plan. Zelgius knew full well of what Sephiran had in plan.

[Anacybele]

Zelgius's character only makes sense if Zelgius is just an act. He pretends to be honorable when he shows his face, but he's secretly a monster.

Then what about when he gives Ike Alondite and all? He seemed to me like he regretted the bad deeds he had done. Also, keep in mind that Zelgius is a Branded, and just about nobody knew. He was also pressured with fear that soon enough, people would notice that he's not aging and get suspicious. And then all hell would break loose. And we all know how beorc and laguz generally view the Branded.

It's funny... Ike gets both of the blades that killed his parents. Ettard looks like the sword Greil is holding in that one art, which means it probably killed Elena, and Alondite killed Greil.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Anacybele

[IceBrand]

Then what about when he gives Ike Alondite and all? He seemed to me like he regretted the bad deeds he had done. Also, keep in mind that Zelgius is a Branded, and just about nobody knew. He was also pressured with fear that soon enough, people would notice that he's not aging and get suspicious. And then all hell would break loose. And we all know how beorc and laguz generally view the Branded.

It's funny... Ike gets both of the blades that killed his parents. Ettard looks like the sword Greil is holding in that one art, which means it probably killed Elena, and Alondite killed Greil.

Nah. Zelgius wanted to fight Greil at full strength, but he wasn't. He hoped Ike would be just as good if not better tha Greil. So he gave him Ragnell to fight at full force.

[Anacybele]

...Uh, I never said anything about Ragnell. o.O

[Ownagepuffs]

I feel like a lot of credit is given to Ishtar (and rightfully so) but not enough to Blume. He was opposed to the child hunts and also didn't mistreat Tinny. But he was still an antagonist. I always had mixed feelings about the guy.

I like PoR Black Knight too. Simply because he had presence. He was this wtf powerful dude that showed up randomly and made you piss your pants every time. Few things suck harder than not being able to beat him in C27 duel tho.

[Baldrick]

Zelgius had only two motivations; see if he surpassed Greil, and help Sephiran. Everything he did during the game was for one of those two reasons. Not sure how much he knew of Sephiran's plans, but he wouldn't have objected to them as long as he could fulfill his own ambition.

Alondite was the one who wanted Ike to pick it up, I believe.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Baldrick

[IceBrand]

...Uh, I never said anything about Ragnell. o.O

Oh......then I have made a huge mistake then.XD

[Magical Glace]

Zelgius had only two motivations; see if he surpassed Greil, and help Sephiran. Everything he did during the game was for one of those two reasons. Not sure how much he knew of Sephiran's plans, but he wouldn't have objected to them as long as he could fulfill his own ambition.

Alondite was the one who wanted Ike to pick it up, I believe.

It was

Yune:

“The swords are calling to each other…”

Yune:

“The holy sword Alondite… It’s the counterpart to your sword, Ragnell. I think it wants you to take it up.”

Ike:

“Alondite… The sword that took my father’s life.”

[Loki Laufeyson]

Naesala was one of my favorite villains in FE9, but once they revealed he was actually a blackmailed hero, I found him lame.

My lawn. Thou art standing upon it. Remove thyself from such, posthaste.

What made Naesala interesting was the fact he was caught by the balls. He's more of an anti-hero than anything, and hes awesome at it.

I like Ashnard. Hes one of those perspective villains. Like, he is objectively an asshole and a terrible person. But as a normal citizen of Daein, he didnt seem too bad. In fact, Sothe goes on about how Ashnard gave people from the slums a shot at being a big shot. To the average poor citizen, thats seen as kinda awesome. And the post arrived on time.

BK was legit intimidating and that was awesome.

Walhart had potential to be one of the best antagonists in the series. He could have been a lot like Stannis Baratheon. His character seemed to be pointing in this direction. (Ruler that does not bend no matter the stakes. Ruler who employs extreme tactics but has the realm in mind when doing so. Ruler who is facing inner conflict between what he sees as morally fucked up, and what is right.) Sadly, he is two-dimensional, only out to CONQUER, and thats just disappointing. I mean, his goal was to remove the Grimleal from Valm ultimately. He and Chrom probably could have seen eye-to-eye in some instances. There would have always been a fundamental disagreement between Walhart and Chrom, but i think both would sympathize a bit with the other.

Bloody fucken shame.

I liked how Lyon felt more like a romantic villain than anything else.

[ZeroEnigma]

Hands down Lyon is the best villain. Nergal is second

[Just call me AL]

I feel like a lot of credit is given to Ishtar (and rightfully so) but not enough to Blume. He was opposed to the child hunts and also didn't mistreat Tinny. But he was still an antagonist. I always had mixed feelings about the guy.

I wonder if it's because of the fact that he's pretty much reduced to being Hilda's lapdog. At the least, the guy didn't strike me as strong-willed.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

I wonder if it's because of the fact that he's pretty much reduced to being Hilda's lapdog. At the least, the guy didn't strike me as strong-willed.

pretty much this for me.

i mean the man's strong, but he lets his wife control him in what feels like not his choice, despite that he could most likely kill her.