NewThreadTime FE4 Gen1+Gen2 Tier Lists

[Yojinbo]

Sharlow and virtually any iteration of Corple are actually pretty useless and should probably be ranked as low tier. I'm not even sure if we should take Claude!Corple's ability to use the Valkyrie Staff into consideration. I don't think we're seriously arguing under the assumption that a unit will die in our hypothetical playthrough. With that in mind I'd say that in a playthrough they'll end up doing even less than Claude would do in Gen 1, which is already next to nothing. If we're looking at those units we're honestly not even arguing about what they are doing but what to *could* be doing in theory that sets them apart from units that are just completely worthless like Hannibal, Johalva or Assholio.

Like, a promoted Linda can do pretty much all the necessary staffbotting duties and it's not actually hard to have her promoted by the beginning of Ch.9. So yeah ... talking about Sharlow/Corple means we're talking about a unit that is to all intents and purposed being obsoleted by Linda. That's kinda bad.

[Refa]

How do you get Linda promoted by the beginning of Chapter 9?

[Baldrick]

Get her to lv. 20, then you can promote her in the Arena Base.

She has Elite, I think?

Edited March 29, 2015 by Baldrick

[momogeek2141]

Sharlow and virtually any iteration of Corple are actually pretty useless and should probably be ranked as low tier. I'm not even sure if we should take Claude!Corple's ability to use the Valkyrie Staff into consideration. I don't think we're seriously arguing under the assumption that a unit will die in our hypothetical playthrough. With that in mind I'd say that in a playthrough they'll end up doing even less than Claude would do in Gen 1, which is already next to nothing. If we're looking at those units we're honestly not even arguing about what they are doing but what to *could* be doing in theory that sets them apart from units that are just completely worthless like Hannibal, Johalva or Assholio.

Like, a promoted Linda can do pretty much all the necessary staffbotting duties and it's not actually hard to have her promoted by the beginning of Ch.9. So yeah ... talking about Sharlow/Corple means we're talking about a unit that is to all intents and purposed being obsoleted by Linda. That's kinda bad.

That's...pretty true actually. Claud!Corple can use fortify however (it's definitely not a huge plus, but it's there.) Maybe Sharlow to Low then, above the other two.

[Moishe Oofnik]

changed the list to all corples in low and sharlow in top of low

Current Topic:

Jamka!Lester Placement

Buttface Placement

Hawk and Lex!Arthur Placement

Edited March 29, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[General Horace]

Hawk's no worse than any Sety except Claude and Levin. Sety doesn't get inheritance really otherwise,and the stuff he'd get otherwise with Azel as a dad is totally negligiable anyway.

Amid's stats are pretty good, but he has no pursuit, no horse, and no staves, so he's honestly pretty terrible unless you actually need him to kill something like in a subs run or something.

Jamka!Lester is honestly fine, high strength and the hero bow tide him over until he can grab the pursuit ring (not high in demand later in the generation)

Lex!Arthur is pretty good, but he has no staves, and his offence and defence (due to having no speed) kinda suck from chapter 10 onwards. Dunno where to put him.

Having Holsety!Corple is pretty much equivilant to not having Holsety at all. Even if promotes, he's promoting in endgame and has 5 movement. Otherwise, it's the berserk staff vs inheriting stuff (probably only reserve since giving Corple anything else is a complete waste other than maybe a return ring) and Elite.

And I'm pretty sure Linda can promote by chapter 9 if she like, kills 3 enemies and clears the arena or something, she's actually really good for a sub.

[Moishe Oofnik]

More guys on current topic

Janne

Tristian

Linda

Dimna

Edited March 29, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Yojinbo]

Dimna sucks. He is pretty much the same as Azel!Lester except with an awful Spd growth. If you wanna be generous you can maybe argue him to be like low mid tier because he has a horse, great availability and can chip stuff but that's pretty much all he can do. By the time he can get his hands on the Hero/Killer Bow in Ch.8 his growth rates will already start to hold him back way too much for him to ever be actually useful.

Tristan can actually be kinda useful depending on how many resources you're willing to give him. A 50-kill Steel Sword from the 1st generation, the Pursuit Ring [+ Speed Ring], the 2nd Hero Sword and the Power Ring are all things that aren't necessarily in high demand at a certain point anymore. Giving him a few of those things can make him a serviceable combat unit at the very least. Not sure where to tier him exactly but I think he'd definitely better than Johan so if Johan is like top of low-mid tier then Tristan would probably somewhere in mid tier, I guess?

Linda has Elite and gets B-Staves upon promotion. It's not actually a big deal though because you'll have Lana, Nanna, Julia, Leaf and Hawk who can easily fulfill all the staffbotting tasks you need to get done but it's still something to consider. It makes her at least better than Corple/Sharlow and she generally isn't among the worse substitute units imo. I'd say she's either mid or low-mid tier. Fun fact: I'm pretty sure I'll actually need her in my LTC run because Julia dips after Ch.9 and I'll have to skip hawk. So the stricter the turn count requirements of a tier list, the more important Linda becomes.

Janne has a horse, can use staves and has good availability. That already makes it impossible for her to be any worse than mid tier in my book. Again, not exactly sure where to tier her specifically but possibly somewhere in the higher ranks of mid tier. It kinda depends on how other units will be ranked though. For now I'd say mid tier probably.

[Shin]

Janne's actually pretty useless. She might have a horse, but she can't fight and she's stuck at C staves. It's not like she's a detriment, but I really don't see anything useful she could do other than heal people sometimes.

Dimna suffers from his growths and being stuck on Iron for two chapters. His speed's kinda iffy so there's a couple of enemies who he might not be able to double later, and he kinda relies on having all 4 hits to kill. He's worse than every incarnation of nonmage!Lester, but I guess he can help clear some dragons in chapter 9 or something.

Tristan's actually kinda OK if you can spare him resources. Critical's a good skill to have and his class bases are kinda neat. His main problem is his growths are pretty lame except HP and he needs like the Hero Sword and Pursuit Ring to function. Even then, he's kinda a bad Delmud or a poor man's Oifaye.

Linda's essentially Tinny but with early Thoron access. Like, she doesn't have pursuit or any durability but she functions just about the same.

[MartyTheDemonSlayer]

Return Staff ! Janne has some very real turn saving potential, but at 220 turns that's probably not too relevant. I don't think she should be rated very highly.

Edited March 30, 2015 by MartyTheDemonSlayer

[Psych]

Now I don't play for turncounts ever so really all that does is probably accentuate my issues, but I'm currently doing a playthrough to test a few pairings and I feel these points can still stand.

Aideen Claude

Dew Aira

Sylvia Levin

Tiltyu Lex

Fury Noish

Azel Lachesis

Brigid Holyn

So while I've done a few of these before, it was more to test Sylvia Levin, Tiltyu Lex, and Azel Lachesis. I'm on chapter 8 so far, and I'm not super impressed.

Delmud has been okay. I'm liking him when he doesn't have to eat a counter, but his magic isn't spectacular so his damage isn't as great as I would like. Nanna I'm not really having any issues with, but I chose to give her the Light Sword and just pass Leaf the chapter 3 silver. I think Leaf is hurting for it and I'm having to feed him children but Nanna's combat is pretty good compared to normal which I suppose isn't saying a lot actually.

Arthur is thoroughly disappointing. He's already promoted but besides that not the greatest. I suppose I am a bit paranoid about leaving him in Wrath range, but outside of it he's awful an in it I don't want to rely on his dodging since he has trouble one shotting a lot of things. Maybe now that he can use Thoron that could change. I'm actually more impressed with Tinny. I typically do Levin Tiltyu and it's more of the Arthur show, but Lex is actually making me favor Tinny more this runthrough. She's basically level 18 or so and I'm at Manster and that's been just a handful of enemies and clearing 7+8 arenas. She's got a lot out of Wrath Ambush when typically her combat isn't great. Though I suppose she could start with Elwind with Levin as her father, the crits are a lot more useful.

Leen's still a dancer with inheritance so not much to say even if her combat is awful. I had Levin pass down Bargain so I will probably grind Corple to promo in 9 with the Elite ring which I realize others probably wouldn't have time or money to do. Otherwise nothing to really say here.

I usually do Dew Ayra and Brigid Holyn so I don't really see anything different here. I did mix up inheritences a bit and gave Shakasher the Shield Ring, Defender, and Earth Sword, so between those and Sol he was really tanky. Lakche didn't get much inheritence besides the Cutter since I remembered having issues with the Armors early in Gen 2. I probably could have given her the Hero Sword instead of Patty, but Lakche is just there for me at the moment and not really standing out.

Lester got the Pursuit Ring and the Strength Ring in an effort for me to make Claude Lester not just take up a spot warming the bench in the home castle. He's doing okay and I'm actually surprised how well he's doing all things considered. I think giving him the Hero Bow now should make him a lot better but otherwise I'm surprised how well he's doing for so little up till now. And I could go on and on about Claude Lana but I think I already have in the thread. Still, the amount of sticky situations I've gotten out of with Reserve to heal my whole team if I want to fight something like Johan's whole battalion, or Liza's is impressive. And Rescue has been saving turns and making sure people keep up with the group rather than get left behind for visiting a village has been really useful.

All in all:

• Claude Lester actually hasn't been as bad as I thought with just the Pursuit and Strength Rings
• Lex Arthur has been a letdown without Pursuit actually, and his strength is higher than his magic? So Thunder Sword time I guess?
• Lex Tinny actually been doing a lot better than Levin Tinny?
• Azel Delmud nice, but could be better in Arenas and against people who can counter at range

[PuffPuff]

You don't actually fight the bow squad in the final chapter because they can't attack you before the castle they are locked onto is seized. Bahara's squad also is kinda skipped because you can just berserk the hel mage in front of the castle to reduce Julius' HP to 1 and have a flier chip in from below the cliff to deal the final bit of damage to him.

Hannibal's squad is generally pretty annoying to deal with, not just for Oifaye but for just about everybody. The dragon knights shouldn't be a problem though because he can just ORKO them with the Light Sword and a Magic Ring - he'll easily dodgetank their innacurate attacks if he stands on a mountain so they aren't actually a problem for him.

In all honesty, the final chapter is probably the one where you do the most amount of skipping enemy squads and just heading straight for the castle. You're not actually doing any fighting except against the bosses of Edda, Dozel and Freege castle, you don't even actually fight Julius or Ishtar. Like, I think you have to kill maybe 4 or 5 axe knights on the way to Dozel [Oifaye can deal with them just fine], nobody [!] on the way to Freege and a few mooks on the way to Edda and Barhara [which Oifaye can handle with a 50+ kill Light Sword for the most part]. The amount by which he supposedly 'falls behind' is generally being blown out of proportion imo.

Irrelevant.

-On a fort.

-High Speed.

=

Spell miss.

Combat ran isnt a problem in FE4 what are you smoking

Only rank you ever need to fear in FE4 is EXP(Mabye tactics if you are going for some odd pairings that cost turns or good pairings that

Oifayes is still solid in 10 and 9 he just isnt as amazing as he is in 6/7/8

The only hurdle with this ranking is Tilty, Deidre, Azel, Arden, Quan, Ethlyn, Dew, bad pairings, Daisy, most pairings for Patty, Hannibal and getting like the Yewfelle which is gone forever if Briggid and Adean don't meet up and...

Tilty

-She will need Paragon at any cost for the EXP rank. So...she'll have to get it soon since Raquesis already needs it until she promotes and that she can't cross mountains in Ch4 for the civilians.

Deidre

-I honestly don't know what to say about her other than to Staff Spam since she only joins for a short time.

Azel

-Bad Mov really makes him troublesome to raise along with his not so good avoid. He needs a Magic Ring to KO his foes better and will need babying more than most characters.

Arden

-Problem is his Mov. He can tank well...but, he will never stand a chance in the arena even with a Slim sword. Making him General will be tough as he cannot get the civilians in Ch4 as Armored Knights cannot cross mountains.

Quan

-He's easy enough to raise with Ethlyn's lover support, but his short time is what makes it tough as other characters need to be experienced too. It is best that he should only deal with parts that you have to hurry to get things. (Bargain Ring)

Ethlyn

-Her short time is what makes it tough. She will have to do unnessessary healing to get her promoted.

Dew

-He will need to get the Light Sword in order to have any chance of getting trained as most enemy units have God awful Res.

Daisy

-Is a problem without slowing down in Ch7 to catch her up. She doesn't grow Str hardly and that the Sleep Sword weighs her down more than anything. It is best to give her the civilians and maybe the Miracle Ring(For the arena) to get her trained.

Patty

-She is a problem without having Holyn's pairing. Without it...well she needs to have the Hero Sword and a Paragon Ring which is bad since Teeny needs it alot more.

Hannibal

-He can mostly just guard the castle as by the point that he joins you, too many troops will be using magic. Arena is his suit to getting trained as averagely he can be to LV25 by the end of the game!

Jamka!Lester's primary weakness is pursuit, which is easily fixed. He doesn't really need the Brave bow cause of continue. I say UM.

Julia has 5 mov, and Julius can be defeated by Hel. Though you're right, Julia is far more reliable. Mid. Nosferatu is useful vs Liza, not really anywhere else as they are either too far to reach or too fast to deal with.

Whaa? I don't follow that logic.

But...how?! His avoid is too good for that and he's on a fucking fort. :/

And I'm pretty sure Linda can promote by chapter 9 if she like, kills 3 enemies and clears the arena or something, she's actually really good for a sub.

She actually is a better choice than Teeny for free Paragon which she desperately needs upon her join time and can be a great backup unit in the final Chapter with Miracle and Defense Ring. She can be a great asset in dodging (Place her on a mountain) and Wrathing the hell out of Hilda's squad which is good for seizing faster.

Edited March 30, 2015 by PuffPuff

[momogeek2141]

Whaa? I don't follow that logic.

But...how?! His avoid is too good for that and he's on a fucking fort. :/

It's called rigging. Hence why I said Julia is a RELIABLE way of beating Julius. If not, she would be in Low mid, or low in mid, because of 5 mov, no elite, nothing special (Resire and Aura are heavy). Beating Julius is good, but berserking the Hel mage is far easier (not reliable, easier.)

Now I don't play for turncounts ever so really all that does is probably accentuate my issues, but I'm currently doing a playthrough to test a few pairings and I feel these points can still stand.

Aideen Claude

Dew Aira

Sylvia Levin

Tiltyu Lex

Fury Noish

Azel Lachesis

Brigid Holyn

So while I've done a few of these before, it was more to test Sylvia Levin, Tiltyu Lex, and Azel Lachesis. I'm on chapter 8 so far, and I'm not super impressed.

Delmud has been okay. I'm liking him when he doesn't have to eat a counter, but his magic isn't spectacular so his damage isn't as great as I would like. Nanna I'm not really having any issues with, but I chose to give her the Light Sword and just pass Leaf the chapter 3 silver. I think Leaf is hurting for it and I'm having to feed him children but Nanna's combat is pretty good compared to normal which I suppose isn't saying a lot actually.

Arthur is thoroughly disappointing. He's already promoted but besides that not the greatest. I suppose I am a bit paranoid about leaving him in Wrath range, but outside of it he's awful an in it I don't want to rely on his dodging since he has trouble one shotting a lot of things. Maybe now that he can use Thoron that could change. I'm actually more impressed with Tinny. I typically do Levin Tiltyu and it's more of the Arthur show, but Lex is actually making me favor Tinny more this runthrough. She's basically level 18 or so and I'm at Manster and that's been just a handful of enemies and clearing 7+8 arenas. She's got a lot out of Wrath Ambush when typically her combat isn't great. Though I suppose she could start with Elwind with Levin as her father, the crits are a lot more useful.

Leen's still a dancer with inheritance so not much to say even if her combat is awful. I had Levin pass down Bargain so I will probably grind Corple to promo in 9 with the Elite ring which I realize others probably wouldn't have time or money to do. Otherwise nothing to really say here.

I usually do Dew Ayra and Brigid Holyn so I don't really see anything different here. I did mix up inheritences a bit and gave Shakasher the Shield Ring, Defender, and Earth Sword, so between those and Sol he was really tanky. Lakche didn't get much inheritence besides the Cutter since I remembered having issues with the Armors early in Gen 2. I probably could have given her the Hero Sword instead of Patty, but Lakche is just there for me at the moment and not really standing out.

Lester got the Pursuit Ring and the Strength Ring in an effort for me to make Claude Lester not just take up a spot warming the bench in the home castle. He's doing okay and I'm actually surprised how well he's doing all things considered. I think giving him the Hero Bow now should make him a lot better but otherwise I'm surprised how well he's doing for so little up till now. And I could go on and on about Claude Lana but I think I already have in the thread. Still, the amount of sticky situations I've gotten out of with Reserve to heal my whole team if I want to fight something like Johan's whole battalion, or Liza's is impressive. And Rescue has been saving turns and making sure people keep up with the group rather than get left behind for visiting a village has been really useful.

All in all:

• Claude Lester actually hasn't been as bad as I thought with just the Pursuit and Strength Rings
• Lex Arthur has been a letdown without Pursuit actually, and his strength is higher than his magic? So Thunder Sword time I guess?
• Lex Tinny actually been doing a lot better than Levin Tinny?
• Azel Delmud nice, but could be better in Arenas and against people who can counter at range

You're not using Arthur correctly. You're supposed to put him in wrath range. He doesn't need to dodge because Ambush lets him go first (see what I'm getting at?) Plus, high strength is good (critical brave swords). Lex!Tinny can obliterate Hannibal's squad with no sweat because of that. It also seems like you are using personal experience rather than stats.

Azel is a better father for Nanna because she can heal. Azel!Delmud still should have little problems in combat, so I'm thinking you're using personal experience rather than average stats. Holsety!Corple is a waste because he promotes at the end of the game with 5 mov and crappy caps. He probably won't even walk in time to reach the tough battles.

[Psych]

Most enemies have HP that prevent Arthur from one shotting them. So then he either dodges forever or eats a hit. I've had to reload states a couple of times because of this. And Nanna can use Relive so she could always heal proficiently.

Sure this is personal experience at the moment, but it's still going to be the same problems people have. Azel Delmud has a 40% growth for magic and a 3 base, that's not exactly great, and even then it's what, 7-8 points above what he would have? And that's average, my Delmud is pretty blessed and it's not doing me any favors.

Julia also has B staves, letting her use stuff like Warp, Libro and the Status staves, plus Resire is REALLY good. She should be at least at Lana's level if not above due to actually being able to get money from arenas. And yeah, we can use the Hel mage, but it requires so much RNG manipulation it's not really a good idea.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Psych

[General Horace]

Did you give Delmud a magic ring? He does pretty well with it. This being said, my Delmud is also extremely magic blessed so my opinion might be null and void. I'm also at chapter 8 and he's like this which is totally ridiculous:

I do agree with the general statement that he's ok when he doesn't have to do enemy phase stuff though.

Edited March 30, 2015 by General Horace

[Yojinbo]

I'm pretty sure Azel!Delmud and Lex!Arthur both kinda need a Magic Ring to do their stuff. Arthur will definitely need it to one-shot people with Wrath and Azel!Delmud doesn't have enough base magic to work as a magic sword user for a while. In that case I'd say that Arthur would have a stronger claim for it because he's ridiculous with it and because Delmud still has solid physical strength that will help him until he can get the second magic ring from Ch.8. Then again there's also Oifaye who does great things with it ... so I'd definitely advice against doing TiltyuxLex and LachesisxAzel in the same run.

[PuffPuff]

I'm pretty sure Azel!Delmud and Lex!Arthur both kinda need a Magic Ring to do their stuff. Arthur will definitely need it to one-shot people with Wrath and Azel!Delmud doesn't have enough base magic to work as a magic sword user for a while. In that case I'd say that Arthur would have a stronger claim for it because he's ridiculous with it and because Delmud still has solid physical strength that will help him until he can get the second magic ring from Ch.8. Then again there's also Oifaye who does great things with it ... so I'd definitely advice against doing TiltyuxLex and LachesisxAzel in the same run.

You actually get the second one in Chapter 10 by Milotos in a village.

Edited March 30, 2015 by PuffPuff

[Yojinbo]

I thought it was a Village near Conote castle, looks like I got that mixed up with the power ring then. Makes things even more messy though I'd still say that Lex!Arthur should be the one to inherit the Magic Ring from Gen 1.

[Psych]

Did you give Delmud a magic ring? He does pretty well with it. This being said, my Delmud is also extremely magic blessed so my opinion might be null and void. I'm also at chapter 8 and he's like this which is totally ridiculous:

I do agree with the general statement that he's ok when he doesn't have to do enemy phase stuff though.

That's my Delmud. Including the Oifey conversation in 7, he's -3 in HP, -1.5 in Strength, +2 in magic, -2 in skill, -3 in speed, -1 in luck, +2 in defense, and -3 in resistance. So wow actually not doing great.

But this goes to reinforce my point of if he was average and had 8 magic, that's only like 20 damage with a magic sword? Not the best when enemies have well above 40 HP. He's not going to kill anything we want him to. I think he's too high and I'd probably put him at the top of mid.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Psych

[General Horace]

if he inherits/buys the magic ring he suddenly ORKO's all enemies he doubles in chapter 7

I still don't think it's the best pairing for Lachesis, but if you give him the tools he needs to be effective he does his job

[Psych]

if he inherits/buys the magic ring he suddenly ORKO's all enemies he doubles in chapter 7

I still don't think it's the best pairing for Lachesis, but if you give him the tools he needs to be effective he does his job

I'm not sure if he'll ORKO mages or dark mages, but then we also have to choose between him and Lex Arthur if we're doing that pairing. Who's more deserving of the magic ring? I guess Delmud cause horse but idk

Who else would want the magic ring? Maybe Tinny, maybe Julia.

[General Horace]

What does Julia do with a magic ring? If she doubles, she kills things anyway. He still has potential to kill the mages from 1 range regardless, and nobody other than promoted Celice (or like, Lester) are killing them from range anyway.

I think giving magic rings to magic using units is pretty useless (unless its for using a sleep or silence staff, or they're an effective bosskiller with Holsety or something), but Lex!Arthur has the magic of a physical unit anyway. I still think it's more useful on Delmud (until Arthur promotes at least) since he clears the arenas with Elite anyway.

One enemies have enough HP to not be killed by Delmud Arthur can probably take the ring, and it's probably at the same time he promotes anyway.

[Refa]

Doesn't Arthur like always make the best use of the magic ring regardless of his parents (like even Levin!Arthur because it lets him OHKO some people easier which does seem like it'd save a lot of money)? Besides that though, can't really see any case where it'd be super useful besides maybe getting Linda/Tinny some easy levels or just as a free 10k (which anyone could probably use).

Edited March 30, 2015 by Refa

[General Horace]

I think giving Levin!Arthur is a waste until later on, if he has the pursuit ring (which in my opinion he doesn't really need either) he just kills enemies just fine with Elwind, if you're using Holsety on mooks its likely more defensive than offensive anyway since unless he's the only option it's unlikely he'll be targetted early on on the enemy phases anyway when nobody on your team has avoid. Even if he doesn't have the pursuit ring, the Magic ring only might make a difference when he uses Holsety, and it likely doesn't make a difference anyway, Levin!Arthur has a 10 magic base and a 40% growth, so he's likely to oneshot the non-magic enemies in chapter 7 anyway.

I totally think it's a good use of him getting it when he has a horse though. Giving it to Tinny or Linda is pretty useless though, their magic is high enough to kill things without it, and they aren't really fighters anyway. I'd rather have it on Oifaye or Celice.

[Psych]

Well who wants the pursuit ring?

Sword kids don't need it, Horse kids don't need it, Fury's kids don't need it, Faval doesn't need it, giving it to Sylvia's kids is a joke.

That leaves Lester if we do Jamka, Arthur, Tinny, Patty, Leaf, and maybe Altenna. Out of all of those it's really only between Arthur and Leaf. And if we're giving Arthur the Pursuit Ring that means his father isn't Azel, so it's either Lex or Levin, which means he wants the Magic Ring too.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Psych