Want to make a new tier list?

[Florete]

If your belief is that the game can't be tiered, what are you doing here? Leave it alone. That's what I'm doing.

[Junkhead]

Hey, I'm still up for arguement in any case available. Just give a reason other than "Z character, lower"...(no, not you, RedFox, I mean those who want to participate)

[Snowy_One]

I believe FE10 can be tiered. I also believe that a tier-list for FE10 would be largely meaningless outside of a mental exercise or highly generalized statement because of how the game is made.

[Radiant head]

Well OP did say he's treating it as a sport than as some sort of authoritative document.

[Ownagepuffs]

Tanith T above Gatrie. I don't think Gatrie's availability overshadows Tanith T's better part 4.

[Junkhead]

My reasoning behind that is giving Gatrie Celerity and call it a day. You'd have an 8-Mov juggernaut and he can do the same in Greil's route. People will argue his Mov is his problem, but Celerity fixes that issue. He suffers against thickets, but the only map that's supposed to be a "problem" is really 3-3, where Haar, Titania and Oscar are the sole dominators there (Haar can fly and Titania/Oscar can use Pass the best to set things on fire). 3-4 is the only real problem, but Haar is taking Ike up and Randulf is taking himself up at the Arrive spot.

[-Cynthia-]

Gatrie's problem isn't just his Mov- his Spd base is a little low and he'll run into his T2 Spd cap pretty quickly. It's difficult to justify giving Gatrie Celerity, Master Crown etc. over other candidates.

[dondon151]

lol why would you give celerity to gatrie and not haar or maybe reyson

[Snowy_One]

lol why would you give celerity to gatrie and not haar or maybe reyson

Isn't it obvious? Without Celerity even the trees in skirts can outrun him. Clearly Gatire needs an edge in chasing the women lest he die a shriveled husk of a man. Now Haar and Reyson? They have women gushing over them. Haar has that sweet red-head and everyone wants to be close to Reyson so he hardly has to try.

God I'm gonna get punished for that.

[dondon151]

you don't give tauroneo the boots because his mov is bad, so why would you give gatrie celerity?

[Moishe Oofnik]

Gatrie (T) Caps everything but his caps are awful

I could give celerity too a god in Haar who shaves way more turns

P.S:Proposing Ike(T)-Str Spd Skl to Heroes of daien Tier

Transfer Ike is absurd as fuck really also checking if Kyza actually shaves enough turns to warrent mid and proposing (N) Astrid to Falco tier

Edited March 25, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[-Cynthia-]

Tauroneo being a tier under the lions is kinda odd. He's probably the best unit in 1-6(1) (KOs everything at 1-2 range), best along with Jill in 1-6(2) and due to positioning can kill a good number of units particularly with a Master Crown in 3-12. Not very useful after that, but the lions only exist for~2 chapters anyway.

Not sure why Calill is so high. She seems difficult to salvage, 18 base Spd is probably what she's coming into 3-9 with and that's what Soren had back in 3-P. Even with a BEXP dump and Paragon, she's going to have a lot of problems doubling along with durability issues.

Soren(T) being 2 tiers over his normal self is also odd. He is a bit of a better BEXP candidate, but he's still too slow to double at base, is limited by his speed caps, and has pretty bad durability.

Edited March 25, 2015 by -Cynthia-

[Junkhead]

Gatrie's problem isn't just his Mov- his Spd base is a little low and he'll run into his T2 Spd cap pretty quickly. It's difficult to justify giving Gatrie Celerity, Master Crown etc. over other candidates.

I don't think his Spd would be much of a problem given a great Spd growth, which made it really easy for him to just BEXP that up after bits of CEXP (not saying everything he gets should be based on BEXP, that would be too expensive). I forgot about that one, you're right. Now, regarding his low Spd cap...I think he could get the Crown and promote for 25 AS, but since this is effeciency, he's taking it up over others who could use it better. Unfortunately. ),:

lol why would you give celerity to gatrie and not haar or maybe reyson

You should know, I can be rather fickle. In this case, it's because I'm not entirely sure how the whole effeciency-based tier list would work. Of course, that doesn't mean I can't allow for others to help with that, and that's the point. My counter against that was going to be, "but what if im not using gatrie?". But then I remembered effeciency is what it is, and that includes taking up certain resources others will just use better...

Isn't it obvious? Without Celerity even the trees in skirts can outrun him. Clearly Gatire needs an edge in chasing the women lest he die a shriveled husk of a man. Now Haar and Reyson? They have women gushing over them. Haar has that sweet red-head and everyone wants to be close to Reyson so he hardly has to try.

God I'm gonna get punished for that.

That was histerical. ),:

you don't give tauroneo the boots because his mov is bad, so why would you give gatrie celerity?

Gatrie has a lot better potential in combat than Tauroneo does, that's why. The only thing that's preventing Gatrie from being a juggernaut is low Mov...and the lack of a Master Crown, sadly.

Gatrie (T) Caps everything but his caps are awful

I could give celerity too a god in Haar who shaves way more turns

P.S:Proposing Ike(T)-Str Spd Skl to Heroes of daien Tier

Transfer Ike is absurd as fuck really also checking if Kyza actually shaves enough turns to warrent mid and proposing (N) Astrid to Falco tier

His caps aren't awful, only his Spd cap is. But I understand your point, as the other before you have stated.

I don't think Ike (T) stands out a ton in Part 3, really. Yeah, he has amazing combat...when he attacks at 1-range. He still fails to 1RKO at range, needs to take Adept to keep 1RKO'ing with it and lacks great Mov even when he does. Yeah, I'm the one guy who proposed Celerity Gatrie, but at least he's rocking at 8 Mov. with great offense, thanks to Hand Axes. I think Ike's glow mostly comes from being excellent in Part 4, thanks to Ragnell. But. to me, he seems to be in a similiar apartment to Sothe. Sothe carries a great deal of Part 1 (Part 1 and only Part 1), but that's saying a lot when you consider the context he's rendered in. Ike is one of (if not the best?) at 1RKO'ing, but he isn't beating the likes of Haar, Titania, Oscar (T...maybe even normal), Gatrie (T) & Boyd (T) as they're capable "front-liners" (what I like to call for those who carry most of Part 3 with them). No, I'm not saying our front-liners take care of everything, but they do take care of most of the heavy lifting.

tl;dr: How much are we really weighing on his Part 4?

Tauroneo being a tier under the lions is kinda odd. He's probably the best unit in 1-6(1) (KOs everything at 1-2 range), best along with Jill in 1-6(2) and due to positioning can kill a good number of units particularly with a Master Crown in 3-12. Not very useful after that, but the lions only exist for~2 chapters anyway.

Not sure why Calill is so high. She seems difficult to salvage, 18 base Spd is probably what she's coming into 3-9 with and that's what Soren had back in 3-P. Even with a BEXP dump and Paragon, she's going to have a lot of problems doubling along with durability issues.

Soren(T) being 2 tiers over his normal self is also odd. He is a bit of a better BEXP candidate, but he's still too slow to double at base, is limited by his speed caps, and has pretty bad durability.

I admit, I got a little carried away by Chiki's "when they exist, they're great. they should still be better than trash above them", and I just started tiering those guys who performed greatly when they're around over others who exist but don't do much... This is an interesting case, since both are doing solid stuff (Tauroneo isn't terrible, though). I'll check on Tauroneo.

Well, I do give her credit for being one of two (the other, being Marcia) who can 3-turn 3-9...but now I see it's only one chapter, and that she isn't as easy to salvage as I remembered, even after BEXP (there's also not exactly a great TON of it around for that many levels...). I mean, I figured that if she can get through that stage, she can be pretty good at the Silver Route. Resolve/Flare is a badass combo for a Sage, especially when said Sage has actual existent Spd and durability (and by that, I mean she doesn't get 1HKO). Callil (T) seems to live up to that expectation, imo.

Regarding Soren (T), I think he's a lot more capable. With the capped stats, he can easily get Spd. Then you his Spd cap starts biting him in the ass, and you realize he just HAS to take a Crown...now assume that with a support with Ike + Resolve. As a fighting unit, I can see him like a beast. But as far as effeciency goes...yeah, he's not going anywhere. If you consider that setup, he's great. Otherwise... ),:

[Ownagepuffs]

Question: Why is Titania T not top of top tier? She's like Ike T on a horse.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Question: Why is Titania T not top of top tier? She's like Ike T on a horse.

Hagrido. but Worse part 4 is worse

Ike (T) is a better celerity canidate then gatrie will ever be his offence reaches god mod in part 4 str skill speed transfers mean alot to him and he is basicly fail

In part 3/4 Ike is going to support oscar (t) for dual earth soren is a way way way worse support option

Marshalls Caps are crap compared to the dracolords in which as follows:

Gatrie's Caps:

• HP: 60
• Str: 36
• Mag: 20
• Skl: 34
• Spd: 31
• Lck: 30
• Def: 37
• Res: 30

Haars caps:

• HP: 60
• Str: 38
• Mag: 10
• Skl: 38
• Spd: 32
• Luck: 30
• Def: 38
• Res: 20

Only thing Nigga is losing at is Res and mag and gatrie aint going to cap them anyway

Edited March 25, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Junkhead]

Question: Why is Titania T not top of top tier? She's like Ike T on a horse

woopsie daisy!

Ike (T) is a better celerity canidate then gatrie will ever be his offence reaches god mod in part 4 str skill speed transfers mean alot to him and he is basicly fail

And I never denied that part. But, do realize your mistake there: "Part 4". What is Ike doing with Celerity and awful 2-range in Part 3? Killing the scarcely-spared Sages (AKA, the only enemies he 1RKO's with Wind Edges)?

In part 3/4 Ike is going to support oscar (t) for dual earth soren is a way way way worse support option

Yet, Soren's is a far more capable option when you consider he's actually keeping up with him. With Oscar and his fancy 9-Mov, what's he going to do to keep up? Get Savior'd and miss out on all action?

Marshalls Caps are crap compared to the dracolords in which as follows:

Gatrie's Caps:

• HP: 60
• Str: 36
• Mag: 20
• Skl: 34
• Spd: 31
• Lck: 30
• Def: 37
• Res: 30

Haars caps:

• HP: 60
• Str: 38
• Mag: 10
• Skl: 38
• Spd: 32
• Luck: 30
• Def: 38
• Res: 20

Only thing Nigga is losing at is Res and mag and gatrie aint going to cap them anyway

That's irrelevant, I never compared Gatrie to Haar (it's far too obvious) and 3rd tier caps are irrelevant, considering they'll reach them (if they even...) by Late/Endgame... Edited March 26, 2015 by The Red Queen

[Ownagepuffs]

Only Titania T should be top of top tier, Titania N was fine where she was before but Titania T is ridiculously close to her tier 2 caps right off the bat. It's amazing. She no longer needs the speedwings but if she takes them then she caps Spd immediately. Is the rule about Transfers still the same as in they are assumed to be the only Transferred unit?

[Junkhead]

I had completely forgotten about that, lol. I didn't even understand that rule very much in the first place. So no, not necessarily...

[Moishe Oofnik]

woopsie daisy!

And by never denied that part. But, do realize your mistake there: "Part 4". What is Ike doing with Celerity and awful 2-range in Part 3? Killing the scarcely-spared Sages (AKA, the only enemies he 1RKO's with Wind Edges)fa?

Yet, Soren's is a far more capable option when you consider he's actually keeping up with him. With Oscar and his fancy 9-Mov, what's he going to do to keep up? Get Savior'd and miss out on all action?

That's irrelevant, I never compared Gatrie to Haar (it's far too obvious) and 3rd tier caps are irrelevant, considering they'll reach them (if they even...) by Late/Endgame...

A.Dual earth>Not Dual earth B.You do realize Im pointing this at celerity Ike which means he has fancy 9 move like a mount C.Transfer Ike comes with capped str he can 2RKO most enemies and ORKO some enemys

and just to adress your ridicolus point:

SOREN is not going to frontline ever with that 9def/28hp bulk lets compare him to nolan who starts with 9def/29hp AS A LEVEL 9 FIGHTER AT PART 1 soren +22.5 Avoid from one earth A

Soren aint keeping up with gatrie considering soren gets raped 2RKOd By 0/19Nolan no bexp

HP:35 Str:17 Skil:18 Spd:16 Lck:13 Def:13 Res:7

Soren cant double him

23mag+6 might elwind-7nolanres=22 Damage

SteelAxe11might+17str-9def=19 Damage

Scrubs with Nolan level stats in HM exist alot and soren takes a hit like a pussy

P.S:Dual Earth is insane

Edited March 26, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[-Cynthia-]

I think double earth is overkill durability for most pairs(especially since Ike and Oscar don't share movement). Ike's better off with +Mt from somebody.

Not sure why Soren is getting compared to a randomly leveled Nolan instead of like actual enemy stats though.

[Snowy_One]

I think double earth is overkill durability for most pairs(especially since Ike and Oscar don't share movement). Ike's better off with +Mt from somebody.

Not sure why Soren is getting compared to a randomly leveled Nolan instead of like actual enemy stats though.

That's not to mention that just because a certain support is overpowered doesn't mean that other units should be denied the value of it. That avoid helps a lot of units out in general and while Earth/Earth may be very powerful plenty of other units can really use the help. It's the same principle as why you don't usually give STR boosters to your warrior. Sure, it makes him stronger, but he was already strong and it's much better used elsewhere.

[Radiant head]

I feel like any additional +avo support is overkill for Ike, let alone dual Earth.

[Zkirsche]

I think some people are forgetting that celerity is easily transferable.

Edit: Why is Aran now in upper mid? He's going in the wrong direction. Kieran should still be moved up for being a second Oscar. Comparing him to Kyza, they have very similar availability except Kieran is better in 3-9 and 2-3 and in 3-10 onwards he has the same 9mov with Canto, two range and no gauge slowing him down. They're fighting for the same statboosters + paragon too so it's hard to justify giving them to Kyza over Kieran. Hard to make stat comparisons though, what level will Kieran be coming out of 3-9?

Edited March 26, 2015 by kirsche

[Moishe Oofnik]

I think double earth is overkill durability for most pairs(especially since Ike and Oscar don't share movement). Ike's better off with +Mt from somebody.

Not sure why Soren is getting compared to a randomly leveled Nolan instead of like actual enemy stats though.

was too lazy to look up enemy stats

if we need more attack on Ike id rather having him in a support with mordy/ulki a better unit then fucking soren

Edited March 26, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Junkhead]

A.Dual earth>Not Dual earth B.You do realize Im pointing this at celerity Ike which means he has fancy 9 move like a mount C.Transfer Ike comes with capped str he can 2RKO most enemies and ORKO some enemys

2RKO'ing is a good thing? 12/1 Gatrie has 38 Atk before any +Atk with a Hand Axe. That's 2HKO'ing. Then forges arrive at 3-8, and he's beasting 45 Atk with Hand Axes forges, which is almost enough to 2HKO the toughest Generals...

and just to adress your ridicolus point:

SOREN is not going to frontline ever with that 9def/28hp bulk lets compare him to nolan who starts with 9def/29hp AS A LEVEL 9 FIGHTER AT PART 1 soren +22.5 Avoid from one earth A

If by chance you do happen to use him (as a front-liner, no less), then no, he isn't going to be having 29 HP/9 Def. Actually, if you are going that far (only a matter of course, if you're investing on such a task), it's a smart choice to give him an Angelic Robe. A 10/1 Soren (T) would have something like 41-42 HP/13 Def (okay, not fantastic at said point, but I'm just trying to contraddict your statement lawl). Besides, did you miss the part I mentioned Resolve was in play? Resolve/Flare + (at least) 15 Avo from Ike while you 1RKO everything in sight is pretty ridiculous. Although, now that I see it, giving him Resolve would be taking away Celerity from him...

Soren aint keeping up with gatrie considering soren gets raped 2RKOd By 0/19Nolan no bexp

HP:35 Str:17 Skil:18 Spd:16 Lck:13 Def:13 Res:7

Soren cant double him

23mag+6 might elwind-7nolanres=22 Damage

SteelAxe11might+17str-9def=19 Damage

Scrubs with Nolan level stats in HM exist alot and soren takes a hit like a pussy

Relevant?

Base level Tormod with his fists could beat base Mist with Florete in a fight

Assuming a fist has 0 mt, uses str, and has 1 range, and hit/avoid doesn't matter, Tormod would deal 6 damage to Mist's 28 HP and double her. Mist would deal 10 damage to Tormod's 34 HP and not double.

The only way Mist would win is if she was allowed to attack at 2-range (i.e. if there was a Tormod phase and a Mist phase, and Mist could attack at 2-range on her own phase). If it was an arena-like fight from the ones in FE6/7/8, Mist would lose even if she went first. Oh, or if she scored a crit, and she has like 7 crit on Tormod.

Even switching between Florete and Mend, Mist would still lose without a Crit or being able to attack at 2 range.

Tormod attacks, Mist counters. Tormod is down 10HP, Mist is down 12.

Mist equips Mend.

Tormod attacks, Mist counters for 0 damage. Tormod is down 10HP, Mist is down 24.

Mist heals 20HP.

Mist attacks with Florete, Tormod counters. Tormod is down 20HP, Mist is down 16HP.

Tormod attacks, Mist counters. Tormod is down 30HP, Mist dies on Tormod's second attack.

Or.

Mist attacks, Tormod counters. Tormod is down 10HP, Mist is down 12.

Tormod attacks, Mist counters. Tormod is down 20HP, Mist is down 24.

Mist equips Mend.

Tormod attacks, Mist counters for 0 damage. Tormod is down 20HP, Mist is dead.

And if she just kept Mend equipped the entire time, Tormod would eventually kill her.

Yes, a mage that is only 4 levels higher than Mist could beat her using a sword with just his fists in a fight. It's amazing what Mist's base stats can do for her.

Discuss.

I think some people are forgetting that celerity is easily transferable.

Are we not implying that Celerity is transferred to the GMs, far more often than not? Or is that not what you meant!?

Edit: Why is Aran now in upper mid? He's going in the wrong direction.

Yeah, I'm not incredibly sure on Aran, really. Like, back in the old tier list, I heard things of something like a 14/1 Aran struggling because he may run the risk of being 1RKO'd by 41 Atk Tigers and boasting only 14 AS and not enough durability to make use of it (aka, his strong point, apparently). Never used him, and I've not much of an idea how his levelling would go about (is it feasible to get him anywhere close to lvl.20, even?)...I figured, he can't be terrible?

Kieran should still be moved up for being a second Oscar. Comparing him to Kyza, they have very similar availability except Kieran is better in 3-9 and 2-3 and in 3-10 onwards he has the same 9mov with Canto, two range and no gauge slowing him down. They're fighting for the same statboosters + paragon too so it's hard to justify giving them to Kyza over Kieran. Hard to make stat comparisons though, what level will Kieran be coming out of 3-9?

I feel Kieran's only real saving grace is the fact that he happens to be more like a second Geoffrey in the chapters they co-exist. At least Geoffrey has the virtue of wielding the Brave Lance (assuming you're not giving it to Marcia). I find it hard for him to be of anything resembling useful, after that. His Spd is just awful (awful base, growth AND cap...), the only thing he's got going for him is 9 Mov, durability and even a bit of Atk. Problem is, you're doing not doing too much with that pre-Part 4 and definitely not in Part 4. Getting Kyza to double isn't actually that hard, his durability is really good and he also has 9 Mov...thing is, I can see him being a lot more useful with the proper investment in Part 4 than taking down a door in one chapter.

Oh, yeah. Levels. Well, that depends. Would he take the 3-9 Crown? 13/1 Kieran isn't exactly amazing.../:

was too lazy to look up enemy stats

...and that's why, in the front page, I linked this.

if we need more attack on Ike id rather having him in a support with mordy/ulki a better unit then fucking soren

With Ulki or Mordecai, he's running into the same issue as with Oscar. They have 9 Mov transformed. Mia's his best option, as they highly benefit from good Avo + Atk. He gets even more Avo and the same Atk from a support with Soren, as well... Edited March 26, 2015 by The Red Queen