The grimleal don't make sense.

[Saladus]

The motive and method of the Lopt Sect is established early in the game. While the backstory provides extra detail (which is apparently a bad thing?) it's by no means necessary to understand the plot.

There's also how GotHW was a SNES video game. While Awakening is one for the 3DS that manages to have worse writing.

[Moishe Oofnik]

There's also how GotHW was a SNES video game. While Awakening is one for the 3DS that manages to have worse writing.

Time doesnt really matter if the story is good

why does a time and date matters for a game story is beyond me so I kinda find your logic flawed

also

its real name is Seisen no Keifu so just call it SnK IMO if you wanna make it an abversion

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Time doesnt really matter if the story is good

why does a time and date matters for a game story is beyond me so I kinda find your logic flawed

also

its real name is Seisen no Keifu so just call it SnK IMO if you wanna make it an abversion

and get it mixed up with the japanese title of Attack on Titans? or the fighting game company SNK?

seems like a jolly good idea there chap.

[IceBrand]

and get it mixed up with the japanese title of Attack on Titans? or the fighting game company SNK?

seems like a jolly good idea there chap.

BUSTA WOLF

[Moishe Oofnik]

and get it mixed up with the japanese title of Attack on Titans? or the fighting game company SNK?

seems like a jolly good idea there chap.

Im bad with abversions dog :(

I go cri now

[Saladus]

Time doesnt really matter if the story is good

why does a time and date matters for a game story is beyond me so I kinda find your logic flawed

One point is that Awakening has worse writing for the major antagonists, despite being designed with later technology. Another is that GotHW was limited by the technology of the time.

also

its real name is Seisen no Keifu so just call it SnK IMO if you wanna make it an abversion

Its official English title is Genealogy of the Holy War.

[Delphi Sage]

I see no reason why FE4 hasn't stopped being useful.

[shadowofchaos]

BUSTA WOLF

Busta Belf.

Also, I personally don't see the extreme emphasis on FE narrative.

I saw people praising the Japanese release of Awakening because they couldn't read a lick of Japanese, but still enjoyed the gameplay, giving it a 9/10.

Then 10 months later, they fling crap at it like it's the worst FE ever to be developed with a 2/10.

They obviously enjoyed it enough to do multiple playthroughs on Lunatic on their Japanese copy earlier... yet still vocal about their hate after English release.

[Czar_Yoshi]

There's also how GotHW was a SNES video game. While Awakening is one for the 3DS that manages to have worse writing.

Don't confuse a bad plotline or bad execution with bad writing. Bad plot is where the story is riddled with holes or based on an absurdly boring premise. Bad execution is where the actual plot can't be properly discerned from the telling, and bad writing is simply when it's painful to read, no matter the subject. Awakening's writing is actually the strongest point of its story, and it's certainly better than past FEs- the plot and execution are just lacking.

I saw people praising the Japanese release of Awakening because they couldn't read a lick of Japanese, but still enjoyed the gameplay, giving it a 9/10.

*coughWestbrickcough*

[Baldrick]

Busta Belf.

Also, I personally don't see the extreme emphasis on FE narrative.

I saw people praising the Japanese release of Awakening because they couldn't read a lick of Japanese, but still enjoyed the gameplay, giving it a 9/10.

Then 10 months later, they fling crap at it like it's the worst FE ever to be developed with a 2/10.

They obviously enjoyed it enough to do multiple playthroughs on Lunatic on their Japanese copy earlier... yet still vocal about their hate after English release.

It may come as a surprise to you, but some people like having a good narrative.

With the amount of hype Awakening got, it's very easy to either get swept up in it, or backlash against it. And the most extreme of opinions tend to be the loudest and most prominent, no matter how small a fraction of the fanbase it is.

I think the gameplay is good, and the plot is bad. Am I supposed to hate something I would enjoy, or like something I don't, so that my opinion on Awakening is consistent?

[Saladus]

Don't confuse a bad plotline or bad execution with bad writing. Bad plot is where the story is riddled with holes or based on an absurdly boring premise. Bad execution is where the actual plot can't be properly discerned from the telling, and bad writing is simply when it's painful to read, no matter the subject. Awakening's writing is actually the strongest point of its story, and it's certainly better than past FEs- the plot and execution are just lacking.

Writing has long been used to refer to how a story is told.

Explain what's better in Awakening than past FEs when it comes to writing.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Saladus

[MCProductions]

Writing has long been used to refer to how a story is told.

Explain what's better in Awakening than past FEs when it comes to writing.

It's simple really, Awakening, instead of outright telling you whats going on with narration, instead has the characters carry the plot forward entirely. Which results in two things, one things like the Grimleal are left unexplained due to the main characters being the only POV you see, and two, the plot feels more like it's presently happening than other FE games which have a historian narrate the war to you.

They literally put a texedo on a goat, and expected it to be anything other than a goat in a tuxedo.

This method of storytelling would work much better in FE IF assumeing you can pick sides, due to this being the proper way to world build without haveing to point out various things thru narration.

Edited March 19, 2015 by randomsonicvideos123

[Delphi Sage]

It's simple really, Awakening, instead of outright telling you whats going on with narration, instead has the characters carry the plot forward entirely. Which results in two things, one things like the Grimleal are left unexplained due to the main characters being the only POV you see, and two, the plot feels more like it's presently happening than other FE games which have a historian narrate the war to you.

They literally put a texedo on a goat, and expected it to be anything other than a goat in a tuxedo.

This method of storytelling would work much better in FE IF assumeing you can pick sides, due to this being the proper way to world build without haveing to point out various things thru narration.

...What does this even mean?!

[MCProductions]

...What does this even mean?!

Notice how every chapter of a Fire Emblem game thats not named Awakening or on the NES has a world map scene where the game basically tells you whats going to happen in that chapter. Thats the narration I was talking about. Awakening disposed of this in telling its story, which results in two somewhat paradoxical things, One, the writing seemed better done cause you, the player, have no clue whats coming next(whereas other FE's hint at whats coming in narration) and two, the games plot feels one-sided and lacking.

put simply, the great writing is the tuxedo and the poor plot is the goat

It dosen't matter how great a new system of writing is, a poor plot is a poor plot and FE is a series that has NEVER responded well to change.

However forgoing the World Map scequences could work with FEif assuming you are allowed to chose sides, this is the only way world building in FE could work without World Map Narration

[Delphi Sage]

The dialogue is written around absolute garbage, though. Sure, you can use all the big words you can to cover up the stupid/nothing that's going on, but that's not going to stop the cynics/jerkass reviewer idolizers from noticing the stupid/nothing.

For example, FE10 made a million bits of potential dialogue for just about everyone for certain engagements in 3-7 and 3-E. Does that make the Blood Pact any less ridiculous? No, it just means the devs put in a MASSIVE amount of effort AROUND it when they could've spent time reviewing over the scenario. Especially since they end up resolving all of this in a massive "Time stands still and everyone is peaceful when it unfreezes" Deus ex Machina.

Or to use a less controversial example, nobody but RJWalker truly enjoys FE11. They made as much dialogue as they could in such a limited space, but they still didn't do enough to make it feel like anything but a new coat of paint over a 15-year old game.

And need I even mention Halo 4's "An ancient evil awakens" trailer dialogue turning into a meme that means "If your game can be boiled down to this, it's a shit game that sucks and you are a faggot for defending and/or enjoying it."?

/Gibberish

Edited March 19, 2015 by Delphi Sage

[Moishe Oofnik]

Notice how every chapter of a Fire Emblem game thats not named Awakening or on the NES has a world map scene where the game basically tells you whats going to happen in that chapter. Thats the narration I was talking about. Awakening disposed of this in telling its story, which results in two somewhat paradoxical things, One, the writing seemed better done cause you, the player, have no clue whats coming next(whereas other FE's hint at whats coming in narration) and two, the games plot feels one-sided and lacking.

put simply, the great writing is the tuxedo and the poor plot is the goat

It dosen't matter how great a new system of writing is, a poor plot is a poor plot and FE is a series that has NEVER responded well to change.

However forgoing the World Map scequences could work with FEif assuming you are allowed to chose sides, this is the only way world building in FE could work without World Map Narration

What is the quality of said tuxedo because I can link more then once instance of bad dialouge in FE:A

probably rugged and cheap.

Make a better analogy next time awakening doesnt have good writing.

Edited March 19, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[Czar_Yoshi]

Explain what's better in Awakening than past FEs when it comes to writing.

OK. Here's a quote from Morgan-M's father B support, and three different fathers' responses to it.

Morgan

Perfect! Then let's get started on Project Get Memories of Dad Back! Step one--figure how we're going to trigger some flashbacks. I've already tried banging my head against a post, but nothing. I mean, it made me dizzy and nauseated, but it didn't unearth any hidden memories. What do you think, Father? Perhaps a stone wall would work better?

Father 1

Perhaps that plan would work if I drove your head through it... Or perhaps you could gaze upon your father's noble visage for a while.

Father 2

Let's hold off on the head smashing for a bit, yeah? Why don't ya try takin' a gander at me for a while? Stare into my eyes and stuff.

Father 3

Uh... I don' reckon bangin' yer head will help none, Son. Maybe ya could try just starin' at me for a spell? Right into these here eyes.

If you've actually read any of Awakening's dialogue, you probably know who those are right off the bat regardless of whether you've had them father Morgan (and bothered to read his identical support three times) or not. If this were any other FE, could you do that?

This is a kind of crude example, but I'm not an English teacher and it's neither my job nor my talent to demonstrate this.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i don't even know who they are because every awakening character is so forgettable.

[Irysa]

It's probably Vaike, since he's the only character in the game who is so obcessed with himself. I have never read a single support with Vaike and I know this from the Chapter 2 introduction cutscene. <_<

EDIT: Upon reconsideration, the first is Virion. I'm not sure about the others.

Or to use a less controversial example, nobody but RJWalker truly enjoys FE11. They made as much dialogue as they could in such a limited space, but they still didn't do enough to make it feel like anything but a new coat of paint over a 15-year old game.

Eat shit, I like FE11, and I love FE11's writing. Scenes like this were amazing.

Nyna:
Marth! Any word? Have you found your family? Your sister?

Marth:
...My sister was taken by Gharnef. She is no longer here... And my...my mother is... She is dead. Slain...by that Dolunian dragon...

Nyna:
....! Marth, I am truly sorry...

Marth:
I thought there would be something...some part of my old life I would be coming back to. I fought so hard...

Nyna:
You fought wonderfully, Marth.

(Enter Malledus)

Malledus:
...Sire, might I have a moment?

Marth:
All the moments you want, Malledus. What is it?

Malledus:
Your people have gathered outside the castle. They are overjoyed to be free again, sire, and would like very much to see their prince.

Marth:
All right, then. I'll go at once.

Nyna:
Marth...perhaps you should let that wait, just until you are able to share their joy with them. We could send someone in your stead-

Marth:
No, that would not do. Today is a momentous day for my kingdom and my people. I must celebrate with them now, not later. Anything else would be a disservice to those who died to save Altea. I am a prince before I am a son or a brother.
Come, Malledus. Let us go greet my people.

(Switches to a scene with Marth waving to crowd. Dialogue runs from a narrator on the top)

"Thus Altea was liberated. Its people, ragged from years of Dolunian tyranny, scrambled to the castle and flocked beneath its walls, eager to celebrate what, for many, would be remembered as the happiest days of their lives. They clapped each other on the back, laughed; and when Marth, their prince, appeared up above, they saluted their hero with a thunderous cheer:
"Glory to Marth, our prince of light! Glory to our star and savior!"
Marth smiled down at his people and waved. The great commander's last victory of the day was commanding his tears not to flow."

Don't confuse a bad plotline or bad execution with bad writing. Bad plot is where the story is riddled with holes or based on an absurdly boring premise. Bad execution is where the actual plot can't be properly discerned from the telling, and bad writing is simply when it's painful to read, no matter the subject. Awakening's writing is actually the strongest point of its story, and it's certainly better than past FEs- the plot and execution are just lacking.

I disagree that the writing is neccessarily better than all past FE's. Path of Radiance, Sacred Stones and Shadow Dragon have strong scripts. I don't feel that Awakening's moment to moment sentences and dialogue are neccessarily standout worse than most prior entries however (I would have to honestly give this to Radiant Dawn, the dialogue there is really jilted for some reason), but there is a severe lack of meaningful content within that narrative. The way the actual story flows from plot point to plot point is so awfully executed that it's hard to forgive the game on a story front at all. I also think Robin's dialogue is honestly extremely bland compared to the rest of the cast but that's likely with intent, and at least it's not offensive like Chris' dialogue is.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Irysa

[Czar_Yoshi]

*Also likes Shadow Dragon*

[Baldrick]

Shadow Dragon's prose gives a lot of life to the story.

If you've actually read any of Awakening's dialogue, you probably know who those are right off the bat regardless of whether you've had them father Morgan (and bothered to read his identical support three times) or not. If this were any other FE, could you do that?

I'd have chosen Laurent and Henry's quotes instead of Walhart (like what the actual fuck the first one is so Virion it hurts) and whoever the second one was. Regardless, I don't think a variety of speech patterns is a particularly strong indicator of good writing.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Baldrick

[Saladus]

OK. Here's a quote from Morgan-M's father B support, and three different fathers' responses to it.

If you've actually read any of Awakening's dialogue, you probably know who those are right off the bat regardless of whether you've had them father Morgan (and bothered to read his identical support three times) or not. If this were any other FE, could you do that?

This is a kind of crude example, but I'm not an English teacher and it's neither my job nor my talent to demonstrate this.

Do you want me to bring up how Owain's past doesn't work if Robin is his father? Or should I use Yarne being ''I die no Taguel'', even if Morgan is his sister? Edited March 19, 2015 by Saladus

[ARGHETH]

...those are two very specific examples, one of which involves the Avatar, who breaks everything anyways, and the other probably being because the programming would be too difficult to justify one minor discrepancy.

[eclipse]

This is where I told you guys to stick to the Grimleal. That was post #33. Currently, the latest post is #75. Using the nifty Find feature, I counted eight distinct posts that mention Grima/the Grimleal (not counting those that quoted someone else's post and then talked about something else), plus one that might count as a vague reference.

Since I'm not in the mood to hand out mass warnings for off-topic posting, I'll direct everyone to here, for all of your bellyaching needs. My apologies to anyone who actually wanted to post something about the topic itself.