Objectives

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

For such a penalty, if they do this, I really hope they put more effort into the scenario. Enemies who get one-rounded still being able to sound the alarm was one of the dumbest things about the previous implementation.

That's a bit harsh and unfair. Just have them summon more enemies if you get caught.

The idea of the stealth mission came by playing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8nKz31IlIE

It doesn't have to be as complicated as this example.

[Moishe Oofnik]

Something like FE7 or 10, please

I don't want any more FE13s. The less is done like that game, the better

you want FE7 defend

insert FFX Meg ryan

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Edited March 24, 2015 by TTPK_Tal

[NinjaMonkey]

The idea of the stealth mission came by playing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8nKz31IlIE

It doesn't have to be as complicated as this example.

Taking ideas from shitty ROM hacks is the last thing this series needs.

Edited March 24, 2015 by NinjaMonkey

[Shadow Mir]

Yes, all the mission objectives from Tellius must return.

Only seize or rout missions bore me after while.

This is one of the main issues I have with the latest FE games.

I really miss a stealth mission like chapter 10 in FE9.

Although if you are detected by an enemy => Game Over

Also two objectives could be combined like defeat boss + escape or defend + defeat boss.

I agree with NM - don't pollute the series with shitty ideas like this.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Levant Caprice

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Taking ideas from shitty ROM hacks is the last thing this series needs.

Unimaginative mission objectives as in FE13 are pretty much the last thing this series needs.

Actually ROM hacks have way more to offer than most regular FE parts:

New classes, weapons, mission objectives etc...

Bleah. Worst idea evar.

Accepted!

Edited March 24, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[X-Naut]

Except the soldiers didn't even have any special dialogue indicating that if they died. They just alerted with a full, long string of dialogue, as though they were the ones initiating. That aside, because of the limitations of the FE engine, it only makes sense for a one-round to count as a stealthy ambush that incapacitates the enemy before they can call for help. Heck, I'd settle for only certain, swifter clases being able to do it, or, if they wanted to program extra commands, something like a subdue command that gives the unit a penalty to its stats in exchange for causing the soldier to not alert. Basically, I'd like some actual tools for dealing with the scenario, because it ruined my suspension of disbelief to think Ike's troops would just tromp in completely unprepared to discreetly eliminate enemy sentries (especially with a veteran soldier like Titania and Soren, the Paranoid, around).

What limitations? It's plausible to create two alert scenarios that depend on whether the soldier lived or died and have the game check how the battle ended. Although I agree that the alert trigger is situational and there can be work-arounds to prevent or postpone the alert.

Taking ideas from shitty ROM hacks is the last thing this series needs.

This remark has as much weight as FE12 weapons. Care to explain what makes it a shitty ROM hack?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

What limitations? It's plausible to create two alert scenarios that depend on whether the soldier lived or died and have the game check how the battle ended. Although I agree that the alert trigger is situational and there can be work-arounds to prevent or postpone the alert.

That the game doesn't inherently have stealth mechanics or animations built into it, since it's a tactical war game first. Like, there's no animation and mechanic for, say, Volke slipping up behind the guy and slitting his throat. Since stealth missions aren't a regular part of the series, they could reasonably be expected to cut corners and just go with standard combat mechanics and animations. Following that, it would be logical and reasonable for a player to assume that a one-round could be counted by the game as a stealth kill, which would prevent the alert (since this is something that could be implemented with existing tech). Sorry if my previous explanation wasn't clear on that.

[Vascela]

If you kill enemies, then they could leave the body behind for you to "rescue" (or just bring back capture). If the corpse was visible within ~3 tiles then alert.

[Magical Glace]

Even with limitations of the genre, I'd call it possible. The map Julian posted seemed to use "don't move unless player is in range" AI, based on the player's careful positioning to stay out of enemy range. It provides an interesting layer of strategy to the map, from what I saw, different from the normal FE tactics.

Taking ideas from shitty ROM hacks is the last thing this series needs.

Don't knock before you try.

Unless you have played Midnight Sun and dislike it, I'm going to ask you to be silent.

Unimaginative mission objectives as in FE13 are pretty much the last thing this series needs.

Actually ROM hacks have way more to offer than most regular FE parts:

New classes, weapons, mission objectives etc...

Accepted!

Finally I agree with this post tbh. FE13 is just a mess and the only way FE14 can be as good as GBA or FE10 is stray as far from it as humanly possible.

[Anacybele]

Bring back RD's unique chapter objectives, PLZ, IS. That stuff was so awesome! One chapter literally had you setting the enemy camp's supplies on fire! That was so much fun!

Edited March 24, 2015 by Anacybele

[NekoKnight]

I'd like to see a Defeat the Boss map where the boss is too strong to defeat by conventional means and must be lured into a trap.

Another cool map would be one where you must sabotage one of the enemy's resources which will affect what they can use next map. For example, release all their horses = no mounted enemies next map, or raid their armory so they only have basic weapons next map.

That the game doesn't inherently have stealth mechanics or animations built into it, since it's a tactical war game first. Like, there's no animation and mechanic for, say, Volke slipping up behind the guy and slitting his throat. Since stealth missions aren't a regular part of the series, they could reasonably be expected to cut corners and just go with standard combat mechanics and animations. Following that, it would be logical and reasonable for a player to assume that a one-round could be counted by the game as a stealth kill, which would prevent the alert (since this is something that could be implemented with existing tech). Sorry if my previous explanation wasn't clear on that.

One-rounding might be difficult for a lot of units unless you make the enemies really weak. My idea is to have a character with a literal Silence staff that mutes all sound, including the sound from fighting. It would be balanced by low durability or short range so you have to choose carefully when to use it.

The important thing for a stealth mission is that the player has a clear understanding of the 'alert' conditions.

Edited March 25, 2015 by NekoKnight

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

The important thing for a stealth mission is that the player has a clear understanding of the 'alert' conditions.

The "alert" conditions must be explained in the story before you start the chapter. They shouldn't be mentioned in the losing conditions.

Chapter 10 in FE9 did it exactly right.

Even with limitations of the genre, I'd call it possible. The posted map seemed to use "don't move unless player is in range" AI, based on the player's careful positioning to stay out of enemy range. It provides an interesting layer of strategy to the map, from what I saw, different from the normal FE tactics.

Since the dialouges are skipped I'll explain this mission shortly:

It's a stealth mission with a turn limit.

The main character has to seize a certain spot in 30 turns.

If someone is detected or 30 turns are passed => Game Over

Before you start the map, it will be explained, which enemies move and which not.

The knights (except for the only one in the eastern area) are stationary so you can move in their movement range. Though if you place an unit in their 1-2 attack range, they'll attack you and you'll lose.

Everything else will move and attack you, if you're in their movement range.

A few reinforcement soldiers will move automatically.

Though there's an order to follow of visiting all the villages.

It influences the spots of certain enemies and the further development.

If you don't know this order, this chapter will become frustating for a blind player.

Imo it's a fantastic idea, because you must keep your eyes open on the enemies' movement range the entire time.

And you must make excellent use of canto / rescue + take + drop.

Though I think this mission is a little bit too complicated for an inexperienced FE player.

One chapter literally had you setting the enemy camp's supplies on fire!

It would be even cooler, if the enemies can extinguish them.

That means you have to defend them for 2-3 turns till the supplies are complety burned.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[MoonlitSonata]

All of Radiant Dawn's objectives were pretty nice. An idea that would be cool is to have more adv. chapters since I think RD only used that mechanic once? Not to mention adv. chapters would be brilliant in a game with a world map in that they could totally bring up an excuse as to why you can't retreat to base/the world map, like they got surrounded and now have no choice but to rout/kill off enemy commander/defend/escape. It would also be nice if the chapter beforehand was a mammoth of a chapter meant to force you to use up many supplies.

As for supplies in the world map if it were used? Have a hidden mechanic that forces shop prices to fluctuate between chapters. For example if your army claimed an iron mine the price of iron weapons would drop, but if a major trade city got blockaded then all prices would rise due to the townspeople needing to make money off of something, even if that something is your army. This mechanic could also be used if they decided to bring back a mechanic like the monster encounters, raising/lowering prices as monsters gather/are defeated.

Overall I can't think of any "new" objectives that haven't been used in the series yet, since about the only objective that they haven't utilized as a win condition was still a sub-objective in Awakening, which is the ever-dreaded escort mission.

[The Geek]

Please no stealth missions. There's no need to mix two game genres I'm terrible at into one.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

One-rounding might be difficult for a lot of units unless you make the enemies really weak. My idea is to have a character with a literal Silence staff that mutes all sound, including the sound from fighting. It would be balanced by low durability or short range so you have to choose carefully when to use it.

The important thing for a stealth mission is that the player has a clear understanding of the 'alert' conditions.

This is true, although pre-promo or similarly powered characters should generally still be able to do this. If we forgo the game over on alert condition, this could even be used as a choice. The player could eliminate the sentries using their Jeigan, which denies EXP to their growth units, but makes the map less hectic and would probably have some sort of reward for getting through without an alert. Or the player could just choose to engage with their growth units, turning it into a brawl, but getting extra CEXP for units who may need it, at the risk of both being overwhelmed by reinforcements and giving up whatever reward would be obtained for no alerts. Basically, the FE9 scenario, but implemented in a much better and more logical way.

Expanding on what I said previously, another idea might be to make it so certain classes can fight and not trigger an alert if they don't one-round the enemy. Obvious choices here are Thieves, Rogues and Assassins, which could help give Thieves more of a niche in the early game. A case could be made for Archers and Snipers too. Another implementation that could be done with existing tech is to make the alert trigger terrain-dependant. If the player unit attacks from a tile that provides bonus Avoid and doesn't get the one-round, no alert is triggered.

Another cool map would be one where you must sabotage one of the enemy's resources which will affect what they can use next map. For example, release all their horses = no mounted enemies next map, or raid their armory so they only have basic weapons next map.

I'd love to see something like this. It'd definitely add to the feeling of being in the middle of a war. Perhaps it could even appear regularly as secondary objectives with a time limit. That is, the player has a small window to get units in to perform the sabotage. This would encourage the player move at a brisk pace (care would have to be taken to make the timing not too tight, though) and reward such play with large, tangible effects. Another option for the timing would be give a more generous window, but make the consequences scale. Ignore the objective or take unreasonably long and the enemy retains their silver weapons for the next battle. Just narrowly make it in 15 turns and the enemy is stuck with backup steel. Lead a lightning raid that empties the armoury in 10 turns and the enemy is stuck with whatever they can scrape together—iron and bronze.

[Magical Glace]

I agree with the almighty Helix Fossil.

Please no stealth missions. There's no need to mix two game genres I'm terrible at into one.

Then get good?

snip

Perhaps decrease enemy counts on lower difficulties? That way they can get used to the chapter before going for clearing the harder version.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Perhaps decrease enemy counts on lower difficulties? That way they can get used to the chapter before going for clearing the harder version.

In general, I agree.

If there is also a given turn limit as in this hack, the turn limit should be 10-15% higher than in hard mode.

For example if you have a limit of 30 turns in HM, you should have 33-35 turns in NM.

In MS the number of enemies isn't too large tbh.

The side conditions make this chapter harder.

Visiting all the villages in the right order is very hard for a blind player.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[FlipFlopMist]

I want sandbox where enemies will continously spawning and I have to fight to the death, or at least forced retreat. The thrill of being cornered and outnumbered is all I care about.

This would be a great mission, you leave behind a sacrifice group that are pretty much just there to buy time for the main group, the longer they hold out the more turns the main group has to do their objective/escape.

It would be a trade off of how many characters you would sacrifice for this, the strength of them, etc etc, for how much time you would need and what units you'll have for this upcoming fight that will surely be difficult. It'd have to be/should be a late game mission, but the prospect of having to thoughtfully consider what units to sacrifice for this would be awesome and possibly heart wrenching.

Just as long as they made it to where it wouldn't be an easy choice would be good for me, like you can't just toss out the three characters you don't like/never use, and call it a day.

- - -

Having to get from one end of the map to the other while under ballistic fire, increasing in strength and number troops, would also be interesting-anything that could kick the intensity up a notch, most battles tend to be really sleepy unless it's got story backing it up.

Edited March 26, 2015 by FlipFlopMist

[NekoKnight]

I'd love to see something like this. It'd definitely add to the feeling of being in the middle of a war. Perhaps it could even appear regularly as secondary objectives with a time limit. That is, the player has a small window to get units in to perform the sabotage. This would encourage the player move at a brisk pace (care would have to be taken to make the timing not too tight, though) and reward such play with large, tangible effects. Another option for the timing would be give a more generous window, but make the consequences scale. Ignore the objective or take unreasonably long and the enemy retains their silver weapons for the next battle. Just narrowly make it in 15 turns and the enemy is stuck with backup steel. Lead a lightning raid that empties the armoury in 10 turns and the enemy is stuck with whatever they can scrape together—iron and bronze.

Another idea in the spirit of "actions taken in a mission affecting subsequent missions" is having an Escape map where you are faced with overwhelming odds (low deploy count and lots of enemies). If you stick around too long, you will get surrounded and overwhelmed but for every enemy you kill, it will be one less you have to fight for the next map. There could also be chests deep in enemy territory to test the player's ambition.

[phokingbeast]

i love the escape and defend objectives

[Dragrath]

I gave my support for this before but I want to reiterate the types of maps that add a challenge. route and defeat boss maps tend to be some of the easiest maps. however a defend map which puts you on the defensive is a much greater challenge as you need to exploit every choke point and watch out for enemies that have a weapon of ability that can bypass your defenses. imagine a defense map where at one point two enemy units with pass would show up and easily bypass your defenses!

Or an escape chapter with a unofficial turn count as distant extremely powerful enemies (think lv 20 promotes w/ capped stats when you are only starting to get you top units to promote) are slowly approaching your position!

I'd also like to see a map where the player needs to use the fog of war to their advantage in a stealth chapter

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

C6 on Lunatic+ is basically the defend chapter you're asking for.

As for stealth in fog of war, it's an interesting idea, but the AI would have to stop map hacking first in order for the player to use it in any meaningful way.

[Dragrath]

C6 on Lunatic+ is basically the defend chapter you're asking for.

As for stealth in fog of war, it's an interesting idea, but the AI would have to stop map hacking first in order for the player to use it in any meaningful way.

its the closest awakening gets however it is still a route chapter. More over the skills on the enemies are random, which isn't all that strategic(rater its more get lucky) a true defend chapter involves barriers walls terrain and a particular objective that needs to be hidden. These maps only end by lasting out to the turn limit.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I'd also like to see a map where the player needs to use the fog of war to their advantage in a stealth chapter

Any idea how it should work?

What is the consequence, if you're detected?

It seems to be very frustating for a blind player, because you have almost no room for moving.

C6 on Lunatic+ is basically the defend chapter you're asking for.

Tiki's paralogue comes a defend mission much closer tbh.

[Awakener_]

Does it really matter though? Most players in general will just thoroughly routed the enemies for maximum EXP gain in any given situations. During Lyn's tutorial chapter on defending Dorcas's wife, instead of waiting out I just kill them all to end early. I feel like even if IS implements bunch of objectives to do, main priority for the players will be killing everything for EXPs and then whatever left. Even during the escape chapter in Awakening, I have my units to kill as much as possible. I think the stuff in Awakening are plentiful enough in a chapter.

I also don't see the point of seize, every thrones or castles that is seizable is guarded by a boss unit. You kill the boss to get to the objective to end the chapter, which is fairly redundant when there a winning condition already by just killing the boss to end the chapter.

Unless there are bonuses for achieving certain things (FE 6 did this the best by rewarding players with new maps, ending, different recruits and powerful weapons), otherwise main focus will always be killing everything for EXPs.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Awakener_