The Genius of Two Versions

[Aethin]

My roommate has expressed his disdain for the two-version thing, but I honestly don't have an opinion on the matter. I am past the point where I would care how much it costs to get the games.

From a monetary standpoint, have become blind consumer of Fire Emblem.

#noregrets

[Ghostlander]

People are so salty. I think it's fine. They have different stories/characters right? Okay then. The end.

[euklyd]

No logical person could have figured out that they were planning to release two versions based on the NA direct. It has nothing to do with assuming. When we look at the fact this video was shown at the SAME TIME as the JP one in which it was revealed - it's pretty ****ing obvious what was happening.

Lol. They found out that they could sell the series well with Fire Emblem Awakening and now they're trying to double that. Most of your post is actually assumptions. It's a cash grab.

you're acting like an entitled child

there are very good reasons for telling japan what's going on, namely the game being released in two months

it's quite possible nintendo has not decided on the method of release overseas, since that's next year

if they announced one thing, and decided the other, they would catch hella flack

more than I would have expected, looks like, judging from the childish reactions in this thread

as a sidenote, the bold is fucking hilarious

thanks for that

[ckc22]

you're acting like an entitled child

there are very good reasons for telling japan what's going on, namely the game being released in two months

it's quite possible nintendo has not decided on the method of release overseas, since that's next year

if they announced one thing, and decided the other, they would catch hella flack

more than I would have expected, looks like, judging from the childish reactions in this thread

as a sidenote, the bold is fucking hilarious

thanks for that

Ahhh the classic defense of people with no point "you're entitled!"

[shadowofchaos]

So how would have people felt if they got the special edition cartridge I preordered as the ONLY option with that elevated price?

[nordopolica]

The fact is that the move probably WAS a so-called "cash grab." But Nintendo is a business, and they obviously felt it appropriate to split the two games. This decision was probably made very early in development, so the opportunity to maximize each version's potential with exclusive content or whatnot probably arose very quickly.

It's very easy to react negatively to this sort of marketing particularly when we are exposed to series like Pokemon which monopolise on this sort of thing but if IS delivers and each game has as much exclusive content as a full game like Awakening, it becomes less about "splitting the game" and more about "buying two separate games."

The fact that they offer the second and third as DLC at a discounted price could mean that Nintendo is being a champ about it and letting you potentially own two full games at a lower price, or it could mean you are being offered 1.5 or even only 1 game for a higher price.

We simply don't know at this point.

[Baldrick]

Ahhh the classic defense of people with no point "you're entitled!"

That was a nice strawman riposte to counter it, though. You neatly evaded answering my post in the process.

We simply don't know at this point.

Also this.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Baldrick

[euklyd]

That was a nice strawman riposte to counter it, though. You neatly evaded answering my post in the process.

dude you're not giving him enough credit

he avoided answering any posts

I'm not sure I'm up to the challenge of dealing with such advanced debating techniques...

edit: and as far as opinions go, more generally -

I personally don't care about whatever the hell was advertised

I am happy for the chance to be able to play two fire emblem games, even if I have to (gasp!) spend money on both

I would much prefer to get two games with slightly less than a full game's content each (since overlap), and so significantly more than a normal "full game" between them, than a single game

and hell, for the most part, I'm liking what I'm seeing, so I'm pretty excited for this whole thing

Edited April 8, 2015 by Euklyd

[eclipse]

##Dayvig: Baldrick

##Vote: Euklyd for pointing out pro mafia techniques outside of the mafia subforum, such forbidden knowledge must not leave!

Ahem. . .

Perhaps IS will wait and see how the game goes over in Japan, and figure out how they'll market the international release from there. I don't think there's enough info to truly judge what everyone outside of Japan will get.

[szechuan]

I like the idea but I wish we were able to play all in a single not locked ganme, even if you pay more (I think that is the deluxe edition, I hope I get to buy one), for example, I was introduced to the series with the amazing Awakening, so I think I'll choose Hoshido, even if I think the character design of this edition is a bit poor for the moment (all nohrian look dark+blue/purple and hoshido white+red/pink, and that is very annoying).

I hope they release this in Europe as a single version or at least they sell the deluxe version so I can play everything in a single game even if I have to pay more.

The bad thing about this is also that they erase character diversity in your army. I think one of the things that people like most is to collect warriors, recruiting all of them, but having just a half and knowing that you wont be able to get the other half is not cool :C Awakening was cool because you could recruit A LOT of different characters with their story and stuff, I hope at least each version of FE:if has more that 20 characters to play with.

[ckc22]

dude you're not giving him enough credit

he avoided answering any posts

I'm not sure I'm up to the challenge of dealing with such advanced debating techniques...

edit: and as far as opinions go, more generally -

I personally don't care about whatever the hell was advertised

I am happy for the chance to be able to play two fire emblem games, even if I have to (gasp!) spend money on both

I would much prefer to get two games with slightly less than a full game's content each (since overlap), and so significantly more than a normal "full game" between them, than a single game

and hell, for the most part, I'm liking what I'm seeing, so I'm pretty excited for this whole thing

What posts have I not answered? Based on what we know there's not a whole lot to say - you think it's a good idea, and I don't.

The fact is that the move probably WAS a so-called "cash grab." But Nintendo is a business, and they obviously felt it appropriate to split the two games. This decision was probably made very early in development, so the opportunity to maximize each version's potential with exclusive content or whatnot probably arose very quickly.

Which is why the NA direct is a problem.

[Sentacotus]

So how would have people felt if they got the special edition cartridge I preordered as the ONLY option with that elevated price?

Honestly, I think the special edition is the best choice if they want to continue with the whole two version strategy and if they do the same thing over here thats the one I'll go with. No reason not to. In the end its overall cheaper than getting everything seperately, you get a bunch of extra stuff like the art book, its all on one cart and you get the third path DLC for free.

The fact is that the move probably WAS a so-called "cash grab." But Nintendo is a business, and they obviously felt it appropriate to split the two games. This decision was probably made very early in development, so the opportunity to maximize each version's potential with exclusive content or whatnot probably arose very quickly.

It's very easy to react negatively to this sort of marketing particularly when we are exposed to series like Pokemon which monopolise on this sort of thing but if IS delivers and each game has as much exclusive content as a full game like Awakening, it becomes less about "splitting the game" and more about "buying two separate games."

The fact that they offer the second and third as DLC at a discounted price could mean that Nintendo is being a champ about it and letting you potentially own two full games at a lower price, or it could mean you are being offered 1.5 or even only 1 game for a higher price.

We simply don't know at this point.

I'm a bit conflicted on this. Yes you are right when you get down to it Nintendo is a business and their job is to make money and quite frankly they don't owe diddily squat to anyone aside from the product you pay for.

But the problem with this game is that the fundamental selling point is that there are multiple paths in the story and the fundamental mechanic of the game is having that choice available in the game. So when you all of a suddenly make it so that you have to pay for that basic mechanic that you are advertising as the best part of the game then you are shooting yourself in the foot. It almost becomes a microtransaction on steroids. Imagine getting to chapter whatever and having a dialogue box pop up saying oh if you want to play this path you got to pay $15. But you bought the game on the basis that you could make that choice from the get go as part of the game only to find out you have to pay extra. I could see how this would peeve people including myself which is why I'm hoping the special edition comes out here in the West and that Nintendo just gives us a single cart.

[Baldrick]

@ckc; you're assuming the West's version will be released a certain way, while shooting down alternate theories as "just assumptions". It's more a case of optimism v pessimism IMO.

[NekoKnight]

I like the idea but I wish we were able to play all in a single not locked ganme, even if you pay more (I think that is the deluxe edition, I hope I get to buy one), for example, I was introduced to the series with the amazing Awakening, so I think I'll choose Hoshido, even if I think the character design of this edition is a bit poor for the moment (all nohrian look dark+blue/purple and hoshido white+red/pink, and that is very annoying).

I hope they release this in Europe as a single version or at least they sell the deluxe version so I can play everything in a single game even if I have to pay more.

The bad thing about this is also that they erase character diversity in your army. I think one of the things that people like most is to collect warriors, recruiting all of them, but having just a half and knowing that you wont be able to get the other half is not cool :C Awakening was cool because you could recruit A LOT of different characters with their story and stuff, I hope at least each version of FE:if has more that 20 characters to play with.

The lack of diversity is one of my concerns too. It's possible the cast for each side is large, even without much overlap but I hope the cast is not as uniform (such as the color themes already present) as we've seen so far. I'd rather have 20 apples, 15 oranges and 15 pears than 50 apples.

What posts have I not answered? Based on what we know there's not a whole lot to say - you think it's a good idea, and I don't.

Which is why the NA direct is a problem.

I think the main question you haven't addressed is why you are so adamant that NoA is making a cash grab and that the NA direct is misleading people about the true nature of the game when neither has been proven to be the case outside of Japan. You're right to be suspicious but these are just assumptions for now.

[NinjaMonkey]

I really don't see why they couldn't have done like what they did with Sacred Stones: You get to a certain part in the story, are offered a choice of factions to side with, choose one of the factions and then play their story to completion. Then you restart the game, reach the path split again, and then choose to go with the other faction and experience their story.

[Aurath8]

I really don't see why they couldn't have done like what they did with Sacred Stones: You get to a certain part in the story, are offered a choice of factions to side with, choose one of the factions and then play their story to completion. Then you restart the game, reach the path split again, and then choose to go with the other faction and experience their story.

I think the difference here is that in Sacred Stones you only split for...8 chapters iirc? The choice gives you different maps and story until Chapter 15, and otherwise continues very similarly between versions from there. Characters are the same too (though availability varies) and the choice doesn't have any huge consequences.

In FEif, the choice is permanent, so we could expect around 20 exclusive chapters on each side. It's reasonable to expect path-exclusive units. All the characters on the boxart are very strong contenders for that. The story should be completely different for much of the game. Overall I'd say IS have done more to make the two sides of the game more different. They're also keen to emphasize that this choice is permanent.

Of course none of that prevents them from treating the game in the same manner as FE8. It's unlikely to change now, so I think the question is really whether a single path is fleshed out enough to act as a full game on its own. If it is, then I'd be perfectly fine if they charged an extra £12 for vastly different second campaign.

[RandomSwordmaster]

I think the difference here is that in Sacred Stones you only split for...8 chapters iirc? The choice gives you different maps and story until Chapter 15, and otherwise continues very similarly between versions from there. Characters are the same too (though availability varies) and the choice doesn't have any huge consequences.

In FEif, the choice is permanent, so we could expect around 20 exclusive chapters on each side. It's reasonable to expect path-exclusive units. All the characters on the boxart are very strong contenders for that. The story should be completely different for much of the game. Overall I'd say IS have done more to make the two sides of the game more different. They're also keen to emphasize that this choice is permanent.

Of course none of that prevents them from treating the game in the same manner as FE8. It's unlikely to change now, so I think the question is really whether a single path is fleshed out enough to act as a full game on its own. If it is, then I'd be perfectly fine if they charged an extra £12 for vastly different second campaign.

I agree, if enough exclusive content is on both sides, it could merit a version split.

[NinjaMonkey]

They're also keen to emphasize that this choice is permanent.

That's what bothers me the most. I really want to do the Nohr side, but if I pick that side I'm stuck with it, with no choice to restart on the Hoshido side if I find the Nohr side to be too difficult for me (and unlike the Hoshido side, I can't just solve my problems by level grinding my units).

[RandomSwordmaster]

That's what bothers me the most. I really want to do the Nohr side, but if I pick that side I'm stuck with it, with no choice to restart on the Hoshido side if I find the Nohr side to be too difficult for me (and unlike the Hoshido side, I can't just solve my problems by level grinding my units).

For me, I just want to try out both paths, without any DLC shenanigans....

[ckc22]

@ckc; you're assuming the West's version will be released a certain way, while shooting down alternate theories as "just assumptions". It's more a case of optimism v pessimism IMO.

I've been pretty up front about that....?

Both sides are assuming. Based on Nintendo's recent practices mine is pessimistic.

I think the main question you haven't addressed is why you are so adamant that NoA is making a cash grab and that the NA direct is misleading people about the true nature of the game when neither has been proven to be the case outside of Japan. You're right to be suspicious but these are just assumptions for now.

Most of my posts have been stated as if/when - if/when the game gets announced as two versions here (or one version with day 1 dlc of the other half) - then there is no denying that the direct released on 4/1 at the same time as the Japanese one was misleading.

[astrophys]

But that's not actually inherently true because that presumes that NoA had actually made a decision on that issue at that time of the direct.

For all we know they're still possibly working on deciding that right now, in which case they might now have announced a version split yet (even if it comes eventually) because they might not have committed to it as of the time of the direct and only arrived to a decision later.

[euklyd]

What posts have I not answered? Based on what we know there's not a whole lot to say - you think it's a good idea, and I don't.

the issue isn't that you're wrong we disagree

it's that you choose to find things personally offensive and are totally dismissive of other possibilities / interpretations

it's completely toxic

e: on mobile rn so I'm way too lazy to quote things you didn't respond to

iirc the post you quoted in your strawman riposte would be a good place to start

Edited April 8, 2015 by Euklyd

[ckc22]

But that's not actually inherently true because that presumes that NoA had actually made a decision on that issue at that time of the direct.

For all we know they're still possibly working on deciding that right now, in which case they might now have announced a version split yet (even if it comes eventually) because they might not have committed to it as of the time of the direct and only arrived to a decision later.

Except they did make a decision at the time of the direct - to present it as if it were one game.

the issue isn't that you're wrong we disagree

it's that you choose to find things personally offensive and are totally dismissive of other possibilities / interpretations

it's completely toxic

e: on mobile rn so I'm way too lazy to quote things you didn't respond to

iirc the post you quoted in your strawman riposte would be a good place to start

Where have I taken something personally offensive?

I think you're reading an awful lot into my posts that simply isn't there.

I've responded to other issues/possibilities/interpretations with my own perspective. Your issue is that you disagree - which you're welcome to. Except while my complaints have focused on the game you have focused yours on me and started name calling and screaming that I'm wrong. If anyone is taking it overly personal and being toxic - it's you.

Edited April 8, 2015 by ckc22

[goodperson707]

Okay ckc22 if i ever seemed to attack you personally i apologize, and correct me if this is not where your coming from.

You joined this fourm after the direct announced this game and from some of your comments you were quite looking forward to it.

Then you watched the NA direct and were expecting a choice filled game with two campaigns,

But then you saw that there were two versions and you saw it as a betrayal of your expectations and a massive blatant cash-grab totally contrary to what the NA direct said. And you seem to have a low opinion and have bad experiences with nintendo or game companies in general when it comes to money. i think i remember you talking about those figure things which annoy me too to be honest,

Does that about sum up your thoughts? Am i close?

Theres one problem Feif having two versions is not confirmed in North America yet and for me at least due to my own personal experiences in other fandoms people disliking a game thats not out yet due to unconfirmed bad marketing and that spreading it out without giving out all the facts might poison others to a game thats not even out yet or confirmed to contain the main thing you object too kinda irks me abit.

[ckc22]

Okay ckc22 if i ever seemed to attack you personally i apologize, and correct me if this is not where your coming from.

You joined this fourm after the direct announced this game and from some of your comments you were quite looking forward to it.

Then you watched the NA direct and were expecting a choice filled game with two campaigns,

But then you saw that there were two versions and you saw it as a betrayal of your expectations and a massive blatant cash-grab totally contrary to what the NA direct said. And you seem to have a low opinion and have bad experiences with nintendo or game companies in general when it comes to money. i think i remember you talking about those figure things which annoy me too to be honest,

Does that about sum up your thoughts? Am i close?

Theres one problem Feif having two versions is not confirmed in North America yet and for me at least due to my own personal experiences in other fandoms people disliking a game thats not out yet due to unconfirmed bad marketing and that spreading it out without giving out all the facts might poison others to a game thats not even out yet or confirmed to contain the main thing you object too kinda irks me abit.

I've been on this forum long before the direct.

I don't consider this a betrayal of my expectations - the only logical reading you get from the 4/1 NA direct is that its a game with two campaigns. I think Nintendo has put forth very different messaging to the NA and JP crowds and there are many people who find it shady/suspect.

I love Nintendo and Fire Emblem - I think I've made that pretty clear - I'm just not happy with a lot of the practices they've adopted in the recent past, and I find that to be fairly convincing evidence that they'll also do something equally shady with Fire Emblem.

As I don't work for Nintendo, I don't feel responsible for protecting them from their own poor marketing decisions.