Of Fallen Princesses: Julia as heir to the Lopt Clan.

[Mayus]

As I'm sure you already know, Julius was born with the blood of Loptyr. He was given the Book of Loptyr, letting the Shadow Dragon go to the prince. Here's an alternate scenario:

How would Judgral's history be different if Julia was born with Major Loptyr? Julius on the other hand would be born with the blood of Naga. How would GotHW's 2nd Gen play out? Would Julia have gotten as far as Julius did? What would Manfroy do to account for Loptyr's blood flowing through a girl's veins? How would the political landscape be different?

Edited May 8, 2015 by Mayus

[GrySun]

I'm pretty sure Julius was born with major blood because he was the firstborn. Even then, if Julia had the major Lopt blood things would have mostly stayed the same. It doesn't matter that she's a woman, she'd be taken over and Manfloy would serve her. Politically it doesn't matter as remember, Julius was technically just the prince. His father was the emperor, and he'd have been regardless which of his kids had the blood. The only difference I see is that Julia would not get Ishtar's blind support and love. Maybe her brother Ishtor would've fit the role? And as Julius was under control, Julia would have the same personality under control as well. Only a different body.

This means that she would have lost too, as Julius lost because he was cocky and so would she be.

[sirmola]

I'm pretty sure Julius was born with major blood because he was the firstborn.

It's entierly random from a story perspective. As an example: andrei does not carry majer uler despite being the eldest. And i belive that ishtar is younger than ishtor.

That being said, i agree with everything else that you said. The game says that Julius was actually a pretty nice guy, but we never see him in control at all. all we see is loptr. My guess is that the plot would have unvieled the same way, only with fewer ishtar fights (heck maybe Julius could convince her not to fight him).

[Refa]

Julius and Celice would be Narga bros for life.

[Acacia Sgt]

This is an interesting question. Considering they were twins, it really could've gone either way I think.

It's entierly random from a story perspective. As an example: andrei does not carry majer uler despite being the eldest. And i belive that ishtar is younger than ishtor.

The firstborn thing may not be a hard-coded rule, but it's not really entirely random either. Andrei is actually the younger sibling. No idea about Ishtar if she's older or not than Ishtor.

Anyway, I also think things would not be that much different overall. Although to me that could change perhaps with some more researching on the situation than just a surface observation...

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Andrei is also Briggid and Aideen's half-brother, not that it matters as much, but he is still younger than them. Same thing with Lex and Danan, Eltshan and Lachesis, etc. The only outlier is Ishtar and Ishtore, with Ishtar being the carrier of the Major blood.

[sirmola]

Andrei is also Briggid and Aideen's half-brother, not that it matters as much, but he is still younger than them. Same thing with Lex and Danan, Eltshan and Lachesis, etc. The only outlier is Ishtar and Ishtore, with Ishtar being the carrier of the Major blood.

Oops. My mistake. I double checked the source i was using and it called hi the "first son" while also calling brigid the "first daughter" Another example of the younger children geting the holy blood is hezul's children. From the exerpt from the "fe4 playing guide" on this site.

Q: Why is it that the Nodion Royal Family can wield Mistolteen and not Agusty’s leader?

A: Black Knight Hezul founded the Agusty Royal Family. He had many children and one of them, his youngest daughter who possessed the holy markings, was married off to the Nodion family. From then on, the successor of the holy markings appeared within the Nodion Royal Family and they were allowed to take the Demon Sword Mistolteen if they swore an oath of loyalty to the Agusty Royal Family. In terms of bloodline, the rulers of Agusty were Hezul’s direct descendants.

Edited May 8, 2015 by sirmola

[Acacia Sgt]

I remember someone here once came up with a theory that the reason for that was that the daughter was born after Hezul became one of the 12 Crusaders, hence why Shagall didn't had not even minor Hezul.

I'd say it has some sense behind it, but nothing to outright confirm it either.

Anyway, back to Major Lopto Julia... one thing that comes to mind that could be different is Dierdre's death, or at least, the situation behind it. I don't think it can just be like the original and just the twins' roles switched. Maybe...

[Rapier]

How much control did Lopt have over Julius' body? I know it was stated that he was a nice guy before being possessed, but I don't see where it is stated that Julius lost all control of himself. On some parts, he seems autonomous enough to tend to Ishtar and have his fun, ie. he expresses his emotions as Julius normally would. He also refers to Alvis and Julia as 'father' and 'sister'. The only part where Lopt seems to take over (fully, at least) is when Julius is defeated (the all caps monologue).

Edited May 8, 2015 by Rapier

[Sartek]

Andrei is also Briggid and Aideen's half-brother, not that it matters as much, but he is still younger than them. Same thing with Lex and Danan, Eltshan and Lachesis, etc. The only outlier is Ishtar and Ishtore, with Ishtar being the carrier of the Major blood.

Corpul and Leen too. Corpul get major holsety if Levin is his father despite being the youngest child.

[Zasplach]

I was under the opinion that Lopt had considerable control over his host, thus why each of the past emperors of the Lopt empire would change their name to Galle and they would become the evil emperor. Why else pass along an ancient tomb if you didn't get a ton of control over your host? That's why they need to have major holy blood.

And to answer the original question, if Julia banished Julius like what happened vice versa in the actual game, not much would change, but if Julius would be allowed to thrive, then Narga's descendant rather than Lopt's would become emperor. Obviously being male is more important than holy blood in terms of inheritance, thus why Andrei inherits over Briggid.

[Skarthe]

I'm pretty sure Julius was born with major blood because he was the firstborn.

In the particular case of Julius, birth order isn't terribly relevant since each of Arvis's three children carries a major blood - Saias has major Fala from Arvis (he was a bastard with Aida, who has no holy blood, so he presumably just has Arvis's major Fala/minor Loptyr since he was Arvis's firstborn), Julius has major Loptyr from the combination of Deirdre and Arvis, and Julia has major Naga from Deirdre. I think, in the case of Julia and Julius, who got which blood was basically random.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I was under the opinion that Lopt had considerable control over his host, thus why each of the past emperors of the Lopt empire would change their name to Galle and they would become the evil emperor. Why else pass along an ancient tomb if you didn't get a ton of control over your host? That's why they need to have major holy blood.

And to answer the original question, if Julia banished Julius like what happened vice versa in the actual game, not much would change, but if Julius would be allowed to thrive, then Narga's descendant rather than Lopt's would become emperor. Obviously being male is more important than holy blood in terms of inheritance, thus why Andrei inherits over Briggid.

Andrei's inheritance also happens because Briggid was lost at a young age, and Ring mist likely would have believed her dead. Also, Andrei killed Ring and seized control while Aideen was in Silesia. I'm not sure if Andrei was legitimate or not since it was never confirmed the identity of his mother (numerous possibilities galore, but if she was a mistress it makes Andrei a bastard), but it seems like Aideen had quite a presence in Jungby.

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

Andrei's inheritance also happens because Briggid was lost at a young age, and Ring mist likely would have believed her dead. Also, Andrei killed Ring and seized control while Aideen was in Silesia. I'm not sure if Andrei was legitimate or not since it was never confirmed the identity of his mother (numerous possibilities galore, but if she was a mistress it makes Andrei a bastard), but it seems like Aideen had quite a presence in Jungby.

You also have Leif and Altena as an example of a younger male minor-blood child taking precedence over the older female major-blood carrier. If Briggid hadn't disappeared maybe Ring might've decided to disinherit Andrei, seeing as they didn't get along (and then Andrei would've likely murdered him anyway) but there's definitely a sense that being male matters more than anything in Jugdral when it comes to inheritance. Julia doesn't get to be Empress of Grannvale at the end of FE4 unless you've married her to Seliph even though she's the Naga heiress. Legitimacy OTOH tends not to matter that much-- Deirdre wasn't legitimate and nobody cared because she had the mark of Naga and that was proof enough of her bloodline. Technically speaking Julia and Julius aren't legitimate either unless Arvis and Deirdre re-affirmed their vows after Sigurd was fried.

[Acacia Sgt]

While I also think Julia not being first in line despite the major Narga to be weird, to be fair, Seliph being male didn't got to do with it. It was because he was Dierdre's firstborn.

[sirmola]

While I also think Julia not being first in line despite the major Narga to be weird, to be fair, Seliph being male didn't got to do with it. It was because he was Dierdre's firstborn.

Also, he was the leader of the liberation army, and the one who pretty much everyone wanted to be king because of that. Who is tecnecaly next in the line of succesion dosn't have all that much to do with it.

[Skarthe]

I don't think birth order necessarily matters to the Grannvale line of succession, either. In Ch.5 when King Azmur and Arvis are talking, Azmur says that Arvis's and Deirdre's son will be Prince of Grannvale if he inherits the power of Naga, implying that the important factor to the line of succession is the major Naga blood. Arvis legally rules as regent because it would be kinda silly to have the random amnesiac girl from the forest be placed on the throne, and then he rules as regent to... technically Julia, I suppose? The game doesn't really explore whether, if everything hadn't gone to hell, the legal successor to Arvis's regency would have been Julia.

Of course, when Seliph defeats Julius, he becomes emperor anyway because he was the leader of the liberation army, the son of the legendary hero Sigurd, and still has at least minor Naga blood lending more credence to his claim - as Seliph holds the throne de facto and Julia isn't interested in it, there's no exploration into whether he'd be the legal heir either as Deirdre's firstborn, or if Julia would have been as the major Naga scion.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Skarthe

[Zasplach]

I don't think birth order necessarily matters to the Grannvale line of succession, either. In Ch.5 when King Azmur and Arvis are talking, Azmur says that Arvis's and Deirdre's son will be Prince of Grannvale if he inherits the power of Naga, implying that the important factor to the line of succession is the major Naga blood. Arvis legally rules as regent because it would be kinda silly to have the random amnesiac girl from the forest be placed on the throne, and then he rules as regent to... technically Julia, I suppose? The game doesn't really explore whether, if everything hadn't gone to hell, the legal successor to Arvis's regency would have been Julia.

Of course, when Seliph defeats Julius, he becomes emperor anyway because he was the leader of the liberation army, the son of the legendary hero Sigurd, and still has at least minor Naga blood lending more credence to his claim - as Seliph holds the throne de facto and Julia isn't interested in it, there's no exploration into whether he'd be the legal heir either as Deirdre's firstborn, or if Julia would have been as the major Naga scion.

He does say if the son inherits the power of Naga, but if the gender was unimportant, wouldn't he have just said child? I was always under the opinion that most of Grandbells duchies had agnatic-cognatic, or male priority, succession. I think that even if everything doesn't go to pot and Julius just inherits Fala's power over Naga's, he would have still been emperor.

The Seliph versus Julia question is definitely more interesting one. Seliph becomes king because he is the liberation army's leader and he pretty much marches into the Bahara and takes the throne, but it would seem Julia has a pretty hefty claim to it versus Seliph. First off, she is a legitimate child of Deidre's official marriage, recognized by the prior king and the nation as a whole, while Seliph is all but an illegitimate product of a relationship conceived without consent from Deidre's male caretakers. Secondly, Julia does have major Naga blood, not the end all be all, but certainly helpful for restoring the bloodlines to their proper location, while Seliph really only has a strong claim on Chaply, give to Oifyae because Seliph, the new emperor, wishes it. Thirdly, a Chaply as king still brings up a lot of bad blood between the varying houses, a wound only begun to heal by this war.