Aqua's role

[RandomSwordmaster]

I doubt it. From what I read, it explicitly says that Aqua was taken as a prisoner, try comparing that to Kamui being raised in Nohr.

Sequence would probably be like:

Garon kills masked Hoshido person(possibly Kamui's father), takes Kamui as a child and raises him in Nohr royal family

Hoshido retaliates with taking Aqua and holding her prisoner (albeit not cruelly, more like "You're our captive, but we won't mistreat you or anything")

[Aurath8]

Sequence would probably be like:

Garon kills masked Hoshido person(possibly Kamui's father), takes Kamui as a child and raises him in Nohr royal family

Hoshido retaliates with taking Aqua and holding her prisoner (albeit not cruelly, more like "You're our captive, but we won't mistreat you or anything")

I think Kamui's case is very different to Aqua's. If Kamui is taken during following that swordman's execution then Hoshido will probably thing Kamui died as well or is otherwise permanently lost. I speculate that Kamui is more or less raised in secret, and neither Hoshido or Kamui knows about his true heritage. In fact, I suspect only Garon and maybe Marx will know about it before the events of the game.

With Aqua, as she's ostensibly explicitly said to be a prisoner, then I think Hoshido are keeping her captive in order to pacify Nohr's 'glory-seeking' habits. i.e. if Nohr tries anything then Aqua, and the things her about that make her special (like her pendant), will be at risk.

[RandomSwordmaster]

I think Kamui's case is very different to Aqua's. If Kamui is taken during following that swordman's execution then Hoshido will probably thing Kamui died as well or is otherwise permanently lost. I speculate that Kamui is more or less raised in secret, and neither Hoshido or Kamui knows about his true heritage. In fact, I suspect only Garon and maybe Marx will know about it before the events of the game.

With Aqua, as she's ostensibly explicitly said to be a prisoner, then I think Hoshido are keeping her captive in order to pacify Nohr's 'glory-seeking' habits. i.e. if Nohr tries anything then Aqua, and the things her about that make her special (like her pendant), will be at risk.

That actually seems much more likely.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

That actually seems much more likely.

i believe it, in some countrys back then family hostages to prevent wars or keep alliances were common, as awful as that sounds.

[Mackc2]

To be fair a lot of main characters in FE have walked right into the villain's trap besides just Chrom. Sigurd, Eliwood, and Eirika all come to mind. Even Micaiah and Ike did a few times.

Yeh but all those guys didn't have robin telling them that it was a bad idea

[sirmola]

Honestly, i'm not really worried about aqua eclipsing kamui. THis is because both cris and robin did the eclipsing because they were player inserts and the authers wanted to make the players feel special. In kamui's place, however, the opposite logic applies, so he is more likly to eclipse people rather than the other way around.

[Thane]

Honestly, i'm not really worried about aqua eclipsing kamui. THis is because both cris and robin did the eclipsing because they were player inserts and the authers wanted to make the players feel special. In kamui's place, however, the opposite logic applies, so he is more likly to eclipse people rather than the other way around.

I feel the same way. I've mentioned it before, but it seems they've really tried to make Kamui special in almost every regard, which can be seen in details such as his attack animation, and how utterly ridiculous it is.

[Crysta]

Yay! lets criticize characters as (possibly) being 1 D cliches before the game is even out yet. *Sigh*

I'm just going to let the Late Sir Terry Pratchett do the talking for me.

“The reason that clichés become clichés is that they are the hammers and screwdrivers in the toolbox of communication.”

Yes. In a forum full of threads filled with mere speculation. What are the odds?

Cliche's are the backbone of lazy writing. Mind you, sometimes they can be done well, but not often.

[goodperson707]

^ however cliches are also the backbone of lazy "criticism" what makes something a cliche is that people consider it cliche so If people don't like something its cliche, if people do like something it's not. And with humans fondness for story telling nearly every story telling element worth telling is or was or will be cliche at some point or another, the elements that cliches are made of are the backbone of stories in general.

[ColdHeartAndASummerDream]

^ however cliches are also the backbone of lazy "criticism" what makes something a cliche is that people consider it cliche so If people don't like something its cliche, if people do like something it's not. And with humans fondness for story telling nearly every story telling element worth telling is or was or will be cliche at some point or another, the elements that cliches are made of are the backbone of stories in general.

Do you know what cliché means? It's basically something that's overused. It doesn't matter if it's liked or not,it can still be cliché.it just could be a good cliché.there are those,but it's still overused~ Sorry if I sound rude,it wasn't my intention.

[goodperson707]

^ well yeah it means overused but it is a mainly negative connotation of overused, you can have a good cliche, but it still implies that other uses of it are at default negative. But if something is not seen as negative it might never be seen as cliché. Also nearly everything can be considered overused in this day and age, but people tend to consider examples from media they dislike as cliche but not examples from what they like. Mainly i dislike cliches in general in just seems to be a way to say what story elements are in fashion this season.

[Crysta]

It usually has a negative connotation because it's usually the literal backbone of the character or plot, and it is essentially borrowing an idea which has been used by someone else because you can't make up your own concept.

Cliche's work when it's an overleaf of a plotline or character, not the essential part. So far, Aqua hasn't really shown her cards... and perhaps as more information comes to light she will appear less and less of a Mysterious Waif.

But right now? That's how she appears.

[Philranger]

Yeh but all those guys didn't have robin telling them that it was a bad idea

Micaiah willingly walked into traps. Eirika was told multiple times that nothing could save Lyon (including but not limited to Lyon himself, Ephraim, and L'Arachel) and she STILL hands the sacred stone over.

[goodperson707]

^^ yes but almost everything has been done before in some sense.

Also one of my main problems with the overuse of the term cliche (i would say calling things cliche is ironically in itself cliche) is that it is an easy way to add weight to an insult/criticism of a work or part of a work, that like terms such as deus ex machina and retcon have mainly negative connotations that seem to be used quite selectively (and sometimes not even accurately though that mainly seems to be deus ex machina) and are quite hard to argue against regardless of the validity of the argument. I could for example call nearly every fire emblem character or a character from any media for that matter cliché and you would be unlikely be able to say anything valid against it besides saying that it is my opinion and reasons why you think the character is a well done cliché but it is still a cliche nonetheless.

Also the thing is wether or not a cliche is a character's essential part is a opinion and subjective, but the negative part of cliche tends to in my opinion prevent people from looking past a cliché that as said by Terry Pratchett often become cliches for a very good reason.

Edited May 18, 2015 by goodperson707

[Crysta]

No, not every cliche' is a cliche' for a very good reason. Some are ridiculously stupid.

I don't think the Idiot Hero cliche' people are complaining about now has ever had a good premise.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeroBall

I love that site, by the way.

I don't think every Fire Emblem character is a cliche', either, or at least an overdone cliche'. I like Hector. I guess you can try to argue he is the big dumb one but there isn't really much evidence to support it - or at least any evidence suggesting he's dumber than the other two lords in his series.

It'd be difficult to argue against my claim that Aqua will be the Mysterous Waif just because we don't have enough information to confirm or deny it: it is literally a guess on my behalf. Once you do, you can argue against it. And it may not even be very hard.

[IceBuster573]

Well...finding out that Aqua is of Nohr blood, but taken prisoner by Hoshido kinda takes the mystery out of her, doesn't it?

[Crysta]

Well...finding out that Aqua is of Nohr blood, but taken prisoner by Hoshido kinda takes the mystery out of her, doesn't it?

There's still the who, what, when, where, and why.

[Ryo]

...and how! :o

[IceBuster573]

There's still the who, what, when, where, and why.

I don't see how that's different from Kamui's situation. The circumstances surrounding how Kamui ended up in Nohr, how Hoshido retaliated, etc. are just as known as Aqua's situation (as in not much).

[RandomSwordmaster]

I don't see how that's different from Kamui's situation. The circumstances surrounding how Kamui ended up in Nohr, how Hoshido retaliated, etc. are just as known as Aqua's situation (as in not much).

They do have SOME differences.

For Kamui, he was believed to be dead by Hoshido after mysterious Hoshido swordsman became a pincushion, and was raised in secret by the Nohr royal family.

As for Aqua, she was taken prisoner, and both Hoshido and Nohr know it. The date of her being taken prisoner is unknown, though it is likely to be before Kamui was taken, as the two have never met beforehand until the events of the game. I could be wrong about this though.

[Venterqua]

They do have SOME differences.

For Kamui, he was believed to be dead by Hoshido after mysterious Hoshido swordsman became a pincushion, and was raised in secret by the Nohr royal family.

As for Aqua, she was taken prisoner, and both Hoshido and Nohr know it. The date of her being taken prisoner is unknown, though it is likely to be before Kamui was taken, as the two have never met beforehand until the events of the game. I could be wrong about this though.

Are these difference speculation? I don't recall these specific details.

[RandomSwordmaster]

Are these difference speculation? I don't recall these specific details.

Aqua being taken prisoner is confirmed. As for Kamui, it's just speculation, although it is educated speculation, as evidenced by Hinoka and what will probably be most of the Hoshido royal family being surprised that he is still alive and well at this point.

[IceBuster573]

I just want people to recognize that Kamui and Aqua are both mysterious in their own ways. Why does Aqua have special singing powers? Why is Kamui the only one shown to be able to transform? Why is Kamui choking Aqua? Why does Aqua have a strong connection to water?

Edited May 18, 2015 by IceBuster573

[RandomSwordmaster]

I just want people to recognize that Kamui and Aqua are both mysterious in their own ways. Why does Aqua have special singing powers? Why is Kamui the only one shown to be able to transform? Why is Kamui choking Aqua? Why does Aqua have a strong connection to water?

-Ancient dragon powerz?

-This was confirmed to be due to Kamui inheriting a very large amount of dragon blood.

-Possibly he lost control upon transforming for the first time?

-Who knows?

[IceBuster573]

-This was confirmed to be due to Kamui inheriting a very large amount of dragon blood.

I hope there's more to it than Kamui just getting lucky in inheriting the genes to be able to transform into a dragon while Hoshido's other 4 siblings weren't lucky and none of Nohr (of course this is assuming that Aqua can't transform into a dragon).