Does it bother anybody else that Male!Kamui is getting much more coverage?

[3Comrades]

Overcomplicated talk ahead. :p

The only thing I don't like about MKamui is his ridiculous shota-look. FKamui's design is perfect. That's it.

3Comrades => to be fair, male characters in JRPG have the same problems, not at the same level though.

No matter, I'm not gonna talk more about it any further, don't want a headache. :p

Oh I agree completely. Its actually worse for men in JRPGs then in other games since men appeal to women, women appeal to men, and few characters appeal to themselves. As i said, its becoming a worse problem for men all the time, even in western media. I'd even say they are worse for men in some areas where many of the men could pass as girls, and men are designed to be attractive just as much to women albeit in a different way, although there are Vaikes/Gregors/Basilios to mix it up a bit more in terms of looks.

But nah, it's a issue for men too, definitely, big issue.

as far as design? They both look a bit young, but they are a middle sibling that needs to pass as Hinoka's younger sibling, so that is fine. And F!Kamui is fine as well, but perfection I can't quite give her due to two left feet.

[BrightBow]

It's definitely kinda bewildering and something that confused me back in New Mystery as well, were the male Avatar was so heavily favored that he even appeared on the cover. Because I thought Fire Emblem had a very large female fanbase in Japan and that they might even the majority. Well, I recall a poll back from around the time of Shadow Dragon's release about that subject but at the very least it has to be a quite significant part.

Red Fox' example about Pokemon shows that Nintendo's marketing can approach things differently. And before Mystery, Fire Emblem wasn't exactly hiding it's female leads. Micaiah was presented as the definitive face of Radiant Dawn and Eirika and Ephraim had basically equal billing. So this game's approach really isn't something that makes sense to me.

Edited May 20, 2015 by BrightBow

[NeonZ]

Regarding that cutscene with the male avatar, maybe it's just part of the opening, and there's also a scene showing the female one with the Nohr crew (considering the game covers)?

I think it's just because they consider them more marketable.

It was the same thing with Robin. Heck, in the demo, you couldn't even select the female gender.

That's not really true. Well, in the localized marketing it was, but IS tried to be extremely neutral with Robin's marketing in Japan originally. There's a reason Robin was often shown as just a hooded figure, without even highlighting the default white haired design. Even the selection screen, although technically starting with the cursor on the male one, first shows the female one before moving the camera. It's only recently due to Smash Bros that the male Robin became the main default one in marketing.

Edited May 20, 2015 by NeonZ

[euklyd]

Also Thor Odinson's post above, though I don't agree with the idea of, "Well it may have been one playthrough and they didn't want to do another." If marketing is your job, do your fucking job and don't be lazy about it. "One run" is not an excuse here.

Not only that, you're literally showing off two versions / paths, so you HAVE to have two files.

So, any laziness isn't any more than like five(?) chapters worth of laziness...

just play on phoenix mode if it's too much effort to go that far with a second file

There would be more "Can we Bang Marx" threads though...

...I'm failing to see the issue here.

Such Marx threads would be a definite improvement.

[BrandedRogue]

but the female protagonists always have to share the spotlight. If they consider male robin their default, like they seem to do with Mamui this time, the male and female MU are not equal. And in that case Femui feels like an afterthought.

And I feel that in general the FE female characters are mostly support characters, I mean how many female characters start as support character that have 0 attack capabilities (or almost none)? I can only name one male who started off like that (Rhys) and the number of female healers ? a whole lot higher.

[goodperson707]

^Moulder, Saul, Wrys, just off the top of my head. And if you count other support classes add, ellphin, nils, Reyson and rafiel. I do agree that there are more female healers, but the troubadour class kinda helps that along a bit and they could attack in FE 4/5 Starting with gaa games 6 had one cleric and one trobadour, and one priest 8 had the same thing. Fe7 was a problem as it did not have a priest, i think adding the monk class and not wanting to add another healer to lyns mode might have something to do with it though But still 1 cleric and 1 troubadour. Fe 9 actually was the best i believe as it had one cleric and one priest, and also had reyson as a defenceless support class. Fe 10 had Laura as the only priest. But mist can fight now, and rhys was from the old game so he had to start promoted. And it was equal if you count the herons. Really expect in fe7 the recent games weren't that bad about it troubadours not having swords were the main problem really.

Edited May 20, 2015 by goodperson707

[Philranger]

but the female protagonists always have to share the spotlight. If they consider male robin their default, like they seem to do with Mamui this time, the male and female MU are not equal. And in that case Femui feels like an afterthought.

And I feel that in general the FE female characters are mostly support characters, I mean how many female characters start as support character that have 0 attack capabilities (or almost none)? I can only name one male who started off like that (Rhys) and the number of female healers ? a whole lot higher.

The number is imbalanced for female support characters, but most of the games after FE5 have at least one male unit who joins with zero offensive capability.

FE6 has Merlinus, Saul, and Elphin vs. Ellen, Clarine, and Lalum

FE7 has Nils and Merlinus again vs. Serra, Ninian, and Priscilla

FE8 has Moulder vs. Natasha, L'Arachel, and Tethys

FE9 has Rhys and Reyson vs. Mist

FE10 has Reyson and Rafiel vs. Laura and Leanne

Awakening has Brady vs. Lissa and Maribelle

Edited May 20, 2015 by Philranger

[Sentacotus]

To be honest I haven't noticed any less coverage and I've seen them used pretty interchangably.

On the subject of gender I think perhaps we might be making this more of an issue than it really is. Didn't have time to read past the front page of posts but it could just be that they are trying to establish a poster unit for the game kinda like how the default Robin is (at least partially so) for Awakening. When it gets down to it it really shouldn't be that big of a deal whether they decide to use the male Kamui or female Kamui in trailers and such. They'll still be playable in the game as far as I'm concerned and have the same role as the main character. What matters is the quality of the game itself and hopefully enough people will buy it to allow FE to continue to grow as a series.

[BrightBow]

but the female protagonists always have to share the spotlight.

Well, now quite always. Sort of.

Going back to Radiant Dawn, while Micaiah ends up playing third fiddle to Ike, IS definitely didn't mind presenting her as the undeniable protagonist. She is the focus character on the cover, in the game's opening and the entire first part of the game. Ike isn't mentioned on the back of the box either. Or anything about the separate armies, for that matter. So you wouldn't even know that a shift of focus was even on the table.

And considering that scenes from the opening involving Ike had to actually be unlocked by getting all the way to Chapter 3, you would have no idea that Ike is even important unless you managed to get that far or you looked it up.

So from the marketing angle, Micaiah didn't have to share her spotlight with anyone.

Edited May 20, 2015 by BrightBow

[BrandedRogue]

The number is imbalanced for female support characters, but most of the games after FE5 have at least one male unit who joins with zero offensive capability.

FE6 has Merlinus, Saul, and Elphin vs. Ellen, Clarine, and Lalum

FE7 has Nils and Merlinus again vs. Serra, Ninian, and Priscilla

FE8 has Moulder vs. Natasha, L'Arachel, and Tethys

FE9 has Rhys and Reyson vs. Mist

FE10 has Reyson and Rafiel vs. Laura and Leanne

Awakening has Brady vs. Lissa and Maribelle

okay, maybe it wasn't that bad in those games (tho I wouldn't could the Herons cuz' they can't be anything else, Mist could have been a myrmidon, but Reyson couldn't be anything but a Heron)

But awaking had it a lot worse. Lissa, Maribell and to a big extend Olivia were support character who started with no attack capabilities (yes Olivia could attack, but was far too squishy to use as a fighting unit)

Well, now quite always. Sort of.

Going back to Radiant Dawn, while Micaiah ends up playing third fiddle to Ike, IS definitely didn't mind presenting her as the undeniable protagonist. She is the focus character on the cover, in the game's opening and the entire first part of the game. Ike isn't mentioned on the back of the box either. Or anything about the separate armies, for that matter. So you wouldn't even know that a shift of focus was even on the table.

And considering that scenes from the opening involving Ike had to actually be unlocked by getting all the way to Chapter 3, you would have no idea that Ike is even important unless you managed to get that far or you looked it up.

So from the marketing angle, Micaiah didn't have to share her spotlight with anyone.

Not for marketing, but in gameplay quite a bit. And the fact that Micaiah also depends on Sothe a LOT

[BrightBow]

Not for marketing, but in gameplay quite a bit. And the fact that Micaiah also depends on Sothe a LOT

Sure, in the game itself it's different. But the thread is all about how the games are presented by IS and Nintendo. After all, in terms of actual gameplay and story, the both Kamui's are obviously equal.

Edited May 20, 2015 by BrightBow

[BrandedRogue]

Sure, in the game itself it's different. But the thread is all about how the games are presented by IS and Nintendo. After all, in terms of actual gameplay and story, the both Kamui's are obviously equal.

but the way nintendo advertises doesn't really suggest that (tho I do think they are exchangeable story and gameplay wise)

[BrightBow]

but the way nintendo advertises doesn't really suggest that (tho I do think they are exchangeable story and gameplay wise)

Well, yeah. That's why I was talking about how Nintendo advertised Radiant Dawn and Micaiah's role in it, as opposed to how Micaiah's role was in the game itself.

Edited May 20, 2015 by BrightBow

[Arch]

I think it's just because they consider them more marketable.

It was the same thing with Robin. Heck, in the demo, you couldn't even select the female gender.

#ThePatriarchy, because women don't buy games too?

Unless you're exploiting women for their sex appeal to sell games to men, that's the only time it's advantageously "marketable" to prominently display female characters. It's honestly gross.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Arch

[goodperson707]

okay, maybe it wasn't that bad in those games (tho I wouldn't could the Herons cuz' they can't be anything else, Mist could have been a myrmidon, but Reyson couldn't be anything but a Heron)

But awaking had it a lot worse. Lissa, Maribell and to a big extend Olivia were support character who started with no attack capabilities (yes Olivia could attack, but was far too squishy to use as a fighting unit)

It was still the same as fe8 or 6 depending on if you count the dancer, one cleric, one troubadour and one priest( yes brady counts) . The thing with the healing classes is that most classes have at least one of each, and due to the cleric/priest split i can see why they like to have one of each, but trobadours are female only, it kinda made sense in 4/5 (they also had swords)not so much in 6 on.

[BrandedRogue]

Well, yeah. That's why I was talking about how Nintendo advertised Radiant Dawn and Micaiah's role in it, as opposed to how Micaiah's role was in the game itself.

tho I don't think ike and micaiah is really the same as male or female kamui. male and female kamui are story wise interchangeable ike and micaiah aren't ;P

But true, RD boxart focuses on micaiah (I don't know about the rest of the advertising as RD was my first FE)

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

Sure, in the game itself it's different. But the thread is all about how the games are presented by IS and Nintendo. After all, in terms of actual gameplay and story, the both Kamui's are obviously equal.

No. They're not equal. I can not grasp the mindset of someone who can think they're "equal"

[Florete]

To be honest I haven't noticed any less coverage and I've seen them used pretty interchangably.

Have you seen the second trailer?

On the subject of gender I think perhaps we might be making this more of an issue than it really is. Didn't have time to read past the front page of posts but it could just be that they are trying to establish a poster unit for the game kinda like how the default Robin is (at least partially so) for Awakening. When it gets down to it it really shouldn't be that big of a deal whether they decide to use the male Kamui or female Kamui in trailers and such. They'll still be playable in the game as far as I'm concerned and have the same role as the main character. What matters is the quality of the game itself and hopefully enough people will buy it to allow FE to continue to grow as a series.

Chrom and Marth/Lucina are clearly the faces of Awakening, at least disregarding Smash. And Aqua is clearly being used as the face of If.

No. They're not equal. I can not grasp the mindset of someone who can think they're "equal"

That post was talking about in just the game itself, not marketing or anything else. In game, as far as we know, they are completely equal. Edited May 20, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire

[Awakener_]

With Aqua getting a lot of the spotlight, I suppose they wanna go with the hero (m Kamui) and heroine (Aqua) thingy with the trailer. But it just that most of the audience is male so they used m kamui majority for the trailers. It not that much of concern imo unless this reflect how the in-game is.

Chrom and Marth/Lucina are clearly the faces of Awakening, at least disregarding Smash. And Aqua is clearly being used as the face of If.

They are almost the face of the entire series now, poor Mar-Mar :D

Edited May 20, 2015 by Awakener_

[BrandedRogue]

No. They're not equal. I can not grasp the mindset of someone who can think they're "equal"

what do you mean as not equal, cuz' what you're saying sounds incredibly sexist to me (even if you didn't intend it as such)

[Llorona]

If they are clearly equal, then they should be given equal coverage. Basically by not doing this Nintendo/IS is reinforcing age old stereotypes that males are more important than females, ergo sexism.

That would be the general theory behind this thread.

Well, yeah. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.

Anyway, some people might not care what gender is shown in the advertising, but representation's important to a lot of people, so.

Showing the female protag a little more in the advertisements/trailers/etc. isn't gonna kill anyone.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'm a bit annoyed, because this pretty much seems to be the case every damn time, as others have noted (see: Robin, Chris, Shepard). No one case bothers me too much, but the overall pattern does on some level, certainly. Others have expressed why more eloquently than I probably would.

It could be worse, though, at least. At least KamuiF is on one of the two boxes (we'll see what happens outside Japan). At least KamuiF exists (until recently, many Japanese RPGs would feature a silent avatar character who was always male; what sort of message does that send to female gamers?).

[NeonZ]

I don't think Awakening/Robin fits that pattern. The Japanese advertisement itself was pretty balanced. The main issue was the localization and afterwards Smash Bros.

[Vitezen]

Because marketers believe it is in their best interest to use the images shown already. Has your decision to buy or not buy the game been affected? If not, it doesn't matter. That is the only purpose of marketing.

[falcoknights]

first of all- love how everyone replying to my first post is ignoring the part where i mentioned f!kamui was getting more attention fanbase wise.

good times.

anyways, i'd say that i still don't see a problem. f!kamui and m!kamui are clearly equals in gameplay, and it's clear they're pushing hoshido more than nohr. and guess who's on the hoshido boxart? yeah, m!kamui. if they were pushing nohr more, i have no doubts that f!kamui would be displayed more.

i'm also agreeing w/ Awakener_ here, as well- another reason, i would say, would be the duality side of things with aqua and kamui, with their hoshido/nohr things. they're pushing that, and the duality theme is pushed further by having m!kamui rather than f!kamui.

on top of that, have you seen the amount of screenshots that they've been looping? there's a fair chunk of them that are. they're not going to make a totally different screenshot for a magazine spread if they've got a perfectly usable one, really. plus, it would make zero sense to suddenly have an f!kamui sprite in a sea of m!kamui sprites if they're explaining inventory for them. it throws people off-rhythm (aka bad design).

like, seriously. this is mountain out of molehill.