Light Master Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) With all this "new" features like the removal of weapon durability(I know gaiden make this, but thats not the point here) and the aparent removal of diverse magical classes, i think this game lose some of his precious strategy elements, but what you think ? I'm crazy or something? Edited June 4, 2015 by Light Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Surely you'd need to actually play the game first, in order to answer that question with any degree of certainty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerys Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Well it hasn't come out yet and it already seems less broken than Awakening. As mentioned by others we have no clue outside of what the reports claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnef Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) It seems more like IS is experimenting. You're looking at this from the wrong side. Yes, the durability system is gone, but based on the interviews, it seems like each weapon is going to have unique stats aside from "this one is better than an earlier weapon." This gives a different layer of strategy to the game. On the other hand, the removal of diverse magical classes simplifies things slightly, yes, but again, FE IF has introduced yet another new system that changes the strategy of the game quite of bit. Of course, I'm talking about the entirely new weapon triangle that they have now. It's too soon to say whether IF will lack strategy or not, but according to that one Famitsu interview a while back. IIRC, wasn't it mention that even Phoenix Mode players may struggle with Nohr? If that's truly the case, then the strategy in the game might be as fresh as ever. I'm not saying it will be, I'm just giving my input on things. Edited June 4, 2015 by Nexas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bman Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Well we have the strategist, mage and dark mage, so I guess diverse magical classes are not gone. Also, status staves are back, which means more tactical options for you and the enemy. But as NinjaMonky said, we will have to play the game to be 100% certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Flash Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don`t think so. Seeing as each weapon has their own effects, they still make you think about which weapon to use. The Nohr path has limited resources to, making your choice even more important. The other features are optinal, so there`s that. That`s just what I think though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessie Spoon Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) So long as there isn't too much value put on luck, the game is probably strategic enough. Always hated losing units due to them critting too many suicide bombers in a row (hi, PoR chapter 5!). But then there's the issue of it becoming too easy...as NinjaMonkey said, you can't see how all the elements mesh together until the game comes out. Edited June 4, 2015 by Tessie Spoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Jagen Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I'd say they are in some regards, and over-complicating in others. I get that they want to bring new blood into the franchise, but I don't think the constant removal of features is the way to go about it. I think a good tutorial and learning curve is key. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It seems more like IS is experimenting. You're looking at this from the wrong side. Yes, the durability system is gone, but based on the interviews, it seems like each weapon is going to have unique stats aside from "this one is better than an earlier weapon." This gives a different layer of strategy to the game. On the other hand, the removal of diverse magical classes simplifies things slightly, yes, but again, FE IF has introduced yet another new system that changes the strategy of the game quite of bit. Of course, I'm talking about the entirely new weapon triangle that they have now. It's too soon to say whether IF will lack strategy or not, but according to that one Famitsu interview a while back. IIRC, wasn't it mention that even Phoenix Mode players may struggle with Nohr? If that's truly the case, then the strategy in the game might be as fresh as ever. I'm not saying it will be, I'm just giving my input on things. Not exactly "struggle", but you would still lose in PM if you failed to achieve the victory conditions. Well we have the strategist, mage and dark mage, so I guess diverse magical classes are not gone. Also, status staves are back, which means more tactical options for you and the enemy. But as NinjaMonky said, we will have to play the game to be 100% certain. This is not confirmed yet. Surely you'd need to actually play the game first, in order to answer that question with any degree of certainty? I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboKD001 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 At least the Nohr side needs some kind of strategy. No leveling up of units and special victory conditions? You pretty much can't just randomly pair up two characters and sweep the enemies, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 What apparent removal of diverse magic classes? We already have strategist, dark knight, dark mage, sorcerer, spell-caster, and presumably two magic using classes that promote from spellcaster. They are hardly removed. Especially since the last 4 games before awakening were 11/12 which only had 3 on foot tome/staves classes for magic users. And for 9 and 10, 9 only had bishops and sages, (i guess maybe you could count knife sage different from staff sages, but thats a bit reaching.) and 10 really only had 2 playable third tier classes light/staff and fire/wind/thunder/staff but with variants with slightly different stats and different max weapon ranks. Well Pelleas and Lethran go against it, but Pelleas just exchanges wind and fire for dark magic and lethran is lethran. Hardly diverse magic classes there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Jagen Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) What apparent removal of diverse magic classes? We already have strategist, dark knight, dark mage, sorcerer, spell-caster, and presumably two magic using classes that promote from spellcaster. They are hardly removed. Especially since the last 4 games before awakening were 11/12 which only had 3 on foot tome/staves classes for magic users. And for 9 and 10, 9 only had bishops and sages, (i guess maybe you could count knife sage different from staff sages, but thats a bit reaching.) and 10 really only had 2 playable third tier classes light/staff and fire/wind/thunder/staff but with variants with slightly different stats and different max weapon ranks. Well Pelleas and Lethran go against it, but Pelleas just exchanges wind and fire for dark magic and lethran is lethran. Hardly diverse magic classes there. If I can hazard a guess, I think OP's referring to the lack of Light Magic and the trinity of magic to boot. Just my guess though, As you mentioned there are certainly more diverse magical classes than before. Edited June 4, 2015 by DeoGame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawful Angry Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Until i play the game i can't say for sure. If it's durability you're talking about, for me it was more a liability and less a strategic element (I'm not saying it was a bad part of the game, because, honestly, it wasn't. Please don't throw me in a fire). From what i've seen so far (new weapons triangle, new weapon mechanics and stuff), the strategic element wasn't watered down, just reformulated. About the magic triangle, it was really cool, but we haven't seen it since Radiant Dawn. Can't blame just FEIf for this. Edited June 4, 2015 by Lawful Angry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) ^^ the most recent games besides awakening hardly had diverse classes though (they would have to be at least recent to be counted as removed) , plus in those games, 11/12 did not have a triangle, and the only tomes with effects in9/10 were Nosferatu and valaura (maybe Thani but that is exclusive to Michiah so that is more a feature of hers). Also the sages had access to almost all of Fire/wind/thunder anyway. At least Gba had Valkires/mage knights, and dark magic had useful effects that made a class that used it worth it, light magic was more a way to make bishops not as good at attacking imo though. Edited June 4, 2015 by goodperson707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Haven't played it yet. (I will say probably, but the watering down started before this game anyway) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvilino Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) With all this "new" features like the removal of weapon durability(I know gaiden make this, but thats not the point here) and the aparent removal of diverse magical classes, i think this game lose some of his precious strategy elements, but what you think ? I'm crazy or something? Obviously we can't tell until the game is out. However we do know the removal of weapon durability isn't simply removing weapon durability though. It's part of adjusting the weapon system and it's arguably more complex than before. They've added a whole new weapon type(Hidden Weapons) that centre around stat debuffs and it seems to be relevant. The fact the enemies get access to Dual Strike(Attack Stance) which from the sounds of things activates 100% of the time could very well be game changing when it comes to strategy. They've added a lot of things for everything they've removed and I think the Hidden Weapon/Shurikens could add more to strategy than Light Magic ever did and that the weapon adjustments and enemies attack stance will require players to adjust their strategies provided the game is balanced well enough. I'd say don't just focus on what they removed and instead focus on how the whole game comes together when it releases. For example New Mystery of the Emblem simplified the game mechanics yet didn't water down the strategy, in fact it produced a much more demanding campaign/difficulty to beat than previous games. Edited June 4, 2015 by arvilino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The watering down of strategy elements is all perspective really, they are not outright removing all strategy from what i can tell, and anything besides that is opinion and depends on your definition of watered down. I could conceivably state that 6 was watered down from 4/5 and to be frank in a way it kinda was, and the next few games were quite similar in basic formula after that, so if it is being watered down it was being done so before it even left japan. It all depends on your point of view really. Also just want to say difficulty does not equal strategic elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Based on what little is known so far, I observe the opposite tendency - a return to strategy since what Awakening watered down disastrously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Lee Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) As a casual strategy player, I actually found all these new features increasing the strategy curve. I can't just waltz up to an enemy like in FEA wreck them without looking at enemy weapons and skills. Edited June 4, 2015 by Atticus Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 i think we'd need to actually PLAY the game before we can jump to conclusions, and if you want my honest opinion, you can't go further south then awakening in terms of watering down mechanics, so this looks like an improvement, as would almost everything esle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solkia Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yeah As we all know, no durability made the last stretch of Radiant Dawn RIDICULOUSLY easy. Durabillity never really added anything to any game ever, it was just an arbitrary mechanic to keep you from using the best weapons as much as you want. Unless you ment something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icy Toast Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't think it's going to be 'watered down' at all. For each feature that is being removed we're getting at least two new ones. And besides, wouldn't weapon durability be kind of redundant in If? Like Solkia just said, its most important function in terms of strategic depth in previous games was to add a drawback to using your most powerful weapons (i.e. the fact that if you use it now you might no longer be able to use it at some point in the future). Since in If each weapon now already comes with its own unique combination of pros and cons, we no longer need weapon durability to make the choice between weapons an interesting one. The other thing weapon durability did in previous games was forcing you to make sure your units had enough uses left on their weapons before each battle, which was more of a chore than a strategic decision. To each their own, of course, but I won't be missing that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylphid Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Based on what little is known so far, I observe the opposite tendency - a return to strategy since what Awakening watered down disastrously. Pretty much this plus the whole "haven't played it yet" issue Personally I like that Dual Attack/Guard remain but that enemies can use them now. Having to choose between the two adds another strategic element too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Hmm, while weapons are supposed to have detriments to them now, I think I would have much rather preferred infinite durability along with negatives to speed for the heavier weapons without using con, like Gaiden (Steel Sword is always -1 AS, etc) instead of remembering what negatives all the weapons give now. While I don't mind the infinite durability at all, I'm curious to see what they do with it considering it seems you have easy access to buying weapons as well. The rest that I've seen seems fine to me and I even like it. Edited June 4, 2015 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yeah, I do wonder if there will be much incentive to switching to a cheaper weapon that you started out with in the earlygame, all things considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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