erica Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (Hi, sorry to butt in, I'm new to the site...) Um, well I voted "No" because I don't really see a problem with it. I understand wanting to keep the purely serious Fire Emblem with lighthearted banter at time while still being story-focused, I feel like society has moved on from that. People want more, I guess? If that's the step IS feels they need to take, then that's their choice. While it will surely attract new fans, I have no doubt that they realized vets would be unhappy with it, and they've decided to take this path anyway. Oh well. Also, while incest makes me uncomfortable, some major plot details have spoiled me on some things, and that's all I'm going to say. Also, in regards to Camilla, while her outfit makes me slightly uncomfortable (it's more of a personal thing, I'm sorry), I don't think it's offensive at all. I feel like, while IS probably wanted it to be fanservice-y, it doesn't define Camilla as a character. If she wants to wear something like that, all power to her. Same with Charlotte. And Aversa, and Tharja, and Petrine, and I could go on. Basically, what I mean is, you have to look beyond the design, and if you can't do that...well. As for face-rubbing...I'm not really bothered by that either? It's either going to get cut or severely censored, and that is fine with me. I wasn't really planning on using it, to be honest. Er, I'm sure I was going to add more to this...but that's just my two-cents, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokoister Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) I'm honestly too used to fanservice in other japanese games to even care anymore. Fire emblem can't escape the fact that it's from Japan forever. IS is doing it to make money and stay afloat and even though I don't like it, they believe adding in more fanservice will bring in more fans and make more money. The only thing that's seriously annoyed me is the fact they had to alter Kamui and the Hoshido children's family relations so they can marry each other. I'm not saying incest is completely horrible, it's a delicate issue. But when it interferes with the main plot for what is likely a dumb excuse to waifu/husbando your siblings then I really got to put my foot down for this shit. Edited June 25, 2015 by Jokoister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) (Hi, sorry to butt in, I'm new to the site...) Um, well I voted "No" because I don't really see a problem with it. I understand wanting to keep the purely serious Fire Emblem with lighthearted banter at time while still being story-focused, I feel like society has moved on from that. What does this even mean. Society has moved on from wanting good stories with well-written and consistent characters? I mean, if you want to say society has moved from wanting that to wanting masturbatory self-insert stories that decides that, no really, it totally wants to be taken seriously while also including a shitload of shameless fanservice, go ahead, but I don't think that's anything to be positive about. Also, you don't worry about the incest; it's optional. Edited June 25, 2015 by Constable Reggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Cloud Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) The only thing that's seriously annoyed me is the fact they had to alter Kamui and the Hoshido children's family relations so they can marry each other. I'm not saying incest is completely horrible, it's a delicate issue. But when it interferes with the main plot for what is likely a dumb excuse to waifu/husbando your siblings then I really got to put my foot down for this shit. I agree. It takes a lot away from the plot. If they were so desperate to have SOME sibling S supports, they could have made Ryouma and Hinoka available with that excuse, but kept Sakura and Takumi off limits, as they are obviously younger than you and well...they would at least be your half siblings, then. Similiarly, that would have made Marx and Camilla available, while Elise and Leon would be not avalaible - just to balance stuff out. It would have been a good middleground, but nope. Edited June 25, 2015 by Fallen Cloud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) ^^ how does it interfere in the main plot, i believe it affected it slightly as you learn part of something important a little early, but i swear there are support convos that do that in previous games, can anyone remember one? Edited June 25, 2015 by goodperson707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Examples, please. edit: let's be clear how stark the tonal shifts in this game are. This is a game that contemplates heavy issues. This game is supposed to be more heavy than say, Luminous Arc 2 "if we work together we can triumph over anything!" level of serious. Xenosaga (Xenoblade too but to a lesser extent as it has less fanservice), Fate/EXTRA, basically every visual novel ever, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erica Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) What does this even mean. Society has moved on from wanting good stories with well-written and consistent characters? No, what I meant was that newer players want MORE than that. They want extra features. Sorry. Edit - Also, I didn't mean this in a positive way, really, it's just that IS seems to feel the need to get new fans in that way. I say go for tbh, because if it doesn't work then it's their fault. [spoiler=Plot Stuff regarding incest]There's no blood relation to any of them whatsoever, just Mikoto. That's why I'm not worried, It's not optional because it's not an option. As long as they cut out all the bullshitty "ooo sister..." stuff, at least. Edited June 25, 2015 by avadonia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I thought they couldn't top Cherche as a sexy wyvern rider, then they give us Camilla. Too bad the PC brigade made them give us a male pegasus knight instead of another Cordelia. Pretty sure his daughter is a Cordelia expy anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Pretty sure his daughter is a Cordelia expy anyway. Judging by his character description he's basically male Cordelia himself. His daughter just looks like her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Chastlily: 1. Yes, well, we all have differents opinions. Although I thought the face rubbing and hot springs were weird, they were alright because of the different cultures but the sex lines is where Nitendo crossed the line in my opinion, of course. 2. I'm agree on this. I don't like Camilla or Charlotte for the reason they are sexualized womens. When I see this kind of stuff, I can't help help myself but just hate it or ignore it completly. I prefer someone like Felicia who is more ''normal'' for me. I will maybe use Camilla and Charlotte in battle but no way I will invite them in My Room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokoister Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) ^^ how does it interfere in the main plot, i believe it affected it slightly as you learn part of something important a little early, but i swear there are support convos that do that in previous games, can anyone remember one? I can't exactly cite a specific scene since it's all still in japanese and untranslated ATM but obviously they have to reveal to Kamui and his/her siblings at some point that they're not blood related which would add in drama. Except it won't feel legit because it's for the player to marry their siblings and not for the sake of having a complex story. Edited June 25, 2015 by Jokoister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mewyeon Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I don't mind, I think it's absolutely hilarious. Some of it even contains decent dialogue. Was I a big fan of the children mechanic returning? Not really. But I can understand why Nintendo chose to incorporate it again. I hope people can remember that this is a business, even if they're going to complain about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I can't exactly cite a specific scene since it's all still in japanese and untranslated ATM but obviously they have to reveal to Kamui and his/her siblings at some point that they're not blood related which would add in drama. Except it won't feel legit because it's for the player to marry their siblings and not for the sake of having a complex story. but you still don't have the full story all you get is from ryouma or the sibling you marry that is that you are not blood related to the siblings, which is not where the drama should come from, the drama comes from who the Real father is. In fact i would say it helps lower the amount if reveals needed for the revelation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parge Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Everything else is not a big deal to me, though Camilla's outfit is an atrocity. Once Awakening came; I realized I no longer had the luxury of female characters sans weird cutout leggings or just no pants whatsoever. (Lucina and Robin being the obvious exceptions) Seriously though, Camilia and Corrin, poor girls, I can only imagine the chaffing... Oh yeah this thread is about fanservice, right? Not bothered for the most part. My plan is to hope it will just blend into the background and my immediate focus will be on things like, you know, story. One last side note: My immediate reaction to My Room "lol might as well call this Fire Emblem: Love Plus" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Once Awakening came; I realized I no longer had the luxury of female characters sans weird cutout leggings or just no pants whatsoever. (Lucina and Robin being the obvious exceptions) Seriously though, Camilia and Corrin, poor girls, I can only imagine the chaffing... Oh yeah this thread is about fanservice, right? Not bothered for the most part. My plan is to hope it will just blend into the background and my immediate focus will be on things like, you know, story. One last side note: My immediate reaction to My Room "lol might as well call this Fire Emblem: Love Plus" uh what? Every game in the entire series has had girls with no pants and at least one rider who rides with at least partly bare legs (chaffing) , it is hardly unique to awakening and fates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastlily Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) uh what? Every game in the entire series has had girls with no pants and at least one rider who rides with at least partly bare legs (chaffing) , it is hardly unique to awakening and fates. Because every Fire Emblem female character had quasi-transparent clothing, all fighters were bare chested, armor never covered people's back, and skirts never went below the posterior area. Of course manaketes had almost no clothing at all either. (It's obviously sarcasm) It's impossible to say older Fire Emblem female characters showed as much skin as they do in FE13/14, if you can then you're delusional and I'm not even going to bother going on about that. Edited June 25, 2015 by Chastlily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parge Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I know that. Sorry my wording isn't quite getting across what I mean. Maybe it just felt more prominent in Awakening? But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) ^^ Wow! All i was saying that impractical designs was hardly a new thing as i said every game has a female rider who rides at least partly bare legged which is true btw. But if you want to play ball, other games have had girl in a short skirt that showed off her panties in every battle she was in. And some of dancers outfits in 4 were hardly covering much, And if you count Layla there were three of them. I don't have digital a measuring tape but i think they are close to the amount of skin the fate people show. I can go on btw. ^Oh i know it got a bit overwhelming reclassing did not help, as most characters were stuck with one model that was more detailed than sprites and their art had to match it. But really female armour designs have impractical for pretty much ever it is just we had a 5ish year gap in between new non remake games, and the last one was FE10 which only had one bare legged rider, and was mostly pretty practical if a tad simple. Plus anything too crazy design wise. in the Gba era was a held back by the sprite formatting. And we still had the chest armour shield. Pulling off fanservice in the Gba games was pretty hard to do compared to how easy it is in model form, i wonder what would have happened if they tried to experiment more with the Tellius designs i mean they where good but mainly they kept the designs simple which worked, but part of me wonders if that was because of being new to the medium and then sticking to the designs for the sequel. Edited June 25, 2015 by goodperson707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueL Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I wasn't sure I wanted to chime in, since I generally avoid release-day mess, but ... I couldn't resist. Honestly, I'm just going to reiterate what others have said: the argument that "[insert whatever] is optional" doesn't really change anything. Healing units are also optional, right? And besides, (to me) the annoying thing about excessive fanservice is the inclusion, not the fact that I'm "enjoying" it. Dev time should have been put somewhere else, I really think. So yeah, the fanservice DOES bother me. If you want people to ogle Camilla, fine. But don't force everybody to do it, please. Funny, the incest doesn't bother me at all. Maybe it's a cultural thing, but if it's completely consensual I'm not bothered by its inclusion (yes, I do have a sibling). Yes, but as far as I know, not using hot tubs, face rubbing, and stripping doesn't put you at a big tactical disadvantage if you choose not to use them. Unless news has come out otherwise, those all provide either no benefits or very minuscule ones at most. Not using healers or any good class would significantly alter strategy however. There is such a thing as tonal consistency. If a story's in the throes of a particularly dark event, it absolutely messes with the pacing if Kamui takes a break from contemplating deadly ramifications to go giggling off to his room, eager to spend time poking his fawning little sister's face for awhile. Really that's a weird thing to do at any juncture, but I digress... Fanservice definitely has the potential to take away from the seriousness of the plot. It's happened all over the place in anime land -- great story concepts getting completely overpowered by otaku genre tropes where they weren't meant to be. But they're there, because it sells better that way. The fact that people keep saying this is one of the darkest and saddest stories yet makes it even more difficult to reconcile the inclusion of all these straight-outta-echi elements. That's not to say a story can't be good in spite of its discordant recipe full of boob-zooms and oniichan-induced blushes, because good stories have certainly survived such things before, but the key phrase there is... "in spite of." I'd rather Fire Emblem's story not be playing around with subjects that it essentially has to ignore to tell the serious story it wants to tell. The more cohesive and consistent a game is, the better it is in my opinion. The same way that an "optional" intermission scene of Gustav and Zero fucking would take away from my immersion in The Grand Budapest Hotel. It's there, and it's meant to be digested along with the rest of the game. Claiming that it's optional as some sort of catch-all defense is ridiculous. But most of this "otaku pandering" are almost mini-games that have little to no consequence if ignored. That's not saying people who dislike it should just pretend it doesn't exist. But not using these features won't make you miss out on the story, nor will it really hurt you gameplay wise. You can build supports just like you can in past FE games without being forced to used these in place of traditional support building methods. If the story and gameplay are good, which is something you can't really know without playing, are those going to be overshadowed by some annoying/useless fanservice features that are the equivalent of mini-games with limited and small tangible benefits? If you are, that's fine. But for people like me, those features make up a very small percentage of the game importance wise and aren't enough to drag down the rest of the game (assuming it's good). It's not an absolute "like or dislike". There's a bunch of people, myself included, that aren't super-de-duper happy about every aspect of the game. I suggest reading through the replies, and rather than sorting them as "like" and "dislike", take the time to figure out why. You people aren't the problem, it's the people who say certain aspects of the game that they dislike, some of which are not objectively that bad (i.e. the Hot springs) ruin the game and the franchise. Granted, a lot of people defending Fates are taking it to far with their reactions as well. *sigh* These are turbulent times.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 honestly i'm fine with most of it face rubbing is top creep and i'm using that to decide on who to never invite to my house or family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastlily Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Impractical design was not something created by FE13, yeah, but not as much skin was shown for any Fire Emblem games. I can compare FE7 characters to FE13/14 ones and you see a clear difference, even Ninian (dancer) is dressed in a rather prude way, same deal for Isadora and Farina. I'll give you that for the FE4 dancers who's design is rather stupid, and guess what? Until Olivia we didn't see that type of clothing ever again. Every female character of the GBA games was dressed normally. Then Awakening and Fates happened and we got Tharja, Olivia, Nowi (who's even worse than FE1 Tiki), Cherche (who's back is entirely shown), Charlotte (Literally in underwear for the top) and Nyx, and a lot of FE14 girls show their whole stomach in any case. FE13/14 didn't create questionnable character design, but it made it the norm for modern-fe clothing for female characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly or Die Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Yes, but as far as I know, not using hot tubs, face rubbing, and stripping doesn't put you at a big tactical disadvantage if you choose not to use them. Unless news has come out otherwise, those all provide either no benefits or very minuscule ones at most. Not using healers or any good class would significantly alter strategy however.[sNIPPED FOR BREVITY] If the story and gameplay are good, which is something you can't really know without playing, are those going to be overshadowed by some annoying/useless fanservice features that are the equivalent of mini-games with limited and small tangible benefits? If you are, that's fine. But for people like me, those features make up a very small percentage of the game importance wise and aren't enough to drag down the rest of the game (assuming it's good). You people aren't the problem, it's the people who say certain aspects of the game that they dislike, some of which are not objectively that bad (i.e. the Hot springs) ruin the game and the franchise. Granted, a lot of people defending Fates are taking it to far with their reactions as well. *sigh* These are turbulent times.... I guess you're right that IF the gameplay and story are amazing, and themselves merit an excellent game, I can pretty much pretend the other stuff doesn't exist and happily go through my day. But, I don't have a lot of faith in that, if Awakening is anything to judge by. Awakening had a weak plot, characters went from the good to the very bland/one-dimensional, and the maps were nothing to write home about (obviously these are all my opinion, and I guess you could easily disagree). And it seems as though Fates is focussing on these extra features (many of which I dislike) over the tactics part of the game, which is a shame. Although maybe the story is good, I don't know, I've been pretty much avoiding story spoilers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodperson707 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Impractical design was not something created by FE13, yeah, but not as much skin was shown for any Fire Emblem games. I can compare FE7 characters to FE13/14 ones and you see a clear difference, even Ninian (dancer) is dressed in a rather prude way, same deal for Isadora and Farina. I'll give you that for the FE4 dancers who's design is rather stupid, and guess what? Until Olivia we didn't see that type of clothing ever again. Every female character of the GBA games was dressed normally. Then Awakening and Fates happened and we got Tharja, Olivia, Nowi (who's even worse than FE1 Tiki), Cherche (who's back is entirely shown), Charlotte (Literally in underwear for the top) and Nyx, and a lot of FE14 girls show their whole stomach in any case. FE13/14 didn't create questionnable character design, but it made it the norm for modern-fe clothing for female characters. All right you have a point Truce? but i will say that making radical designs in the gba era, might not mesh that well with the battle sprites plus the battle sprites were mainly the same, for every game, so if you tried to change too much, it might jar too much with the sprite. And this is speculation but i am not surprised that the aromur of PoR was simple as i believe the team was new to the game cube. But i digress. You have a point there are more radical fanservicy designs in awakening on but just one nitpick tythys is wearing see-through pants with no pants under them unlike Lalum. And either the pants are opauge around her croch area or she tied her sash under it both are kinda close to fe4 dancers. Plus i think there is ending art with her barelegged. Anyway sorry for talking up a storm, here. Edited June 25, 2015 by goodperson707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 [spoiler=Plot Stuff regarding incest]There's no blood relation to any of them whatsoever, just Mikoto. That's why I'm not worried, It's not optional because it's not an option. As long as they cut out all the bullshitty "ooo sister..." stuff, at least. Wait, what? Your Hoshidan siblings aren't even related to Mikoto? Mother of all cop-outs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rxmonste Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) No, it doesn't bother me at all. I've seen stuff more cringe worthy than this. But I can understand why people are upset. This was never the point of playing Fire Emblem. Going back to playing Blazing Sword proves to me that the series doesn't need it to be enjoyable (In all honesty, waifus were never the reason why I enjoyed Awakening anyway.), but it doesn't ruin the experience to have it. People need to be more open minded about it. Edited June 25, 2015 by Rxmonste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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