Do we have a thread discussing the gameplay?

[Person with good opinions]

I couldn't spot one among all the threads asking questions about various features unrelated to the SRPG part of the game, so if we have one and I missed it, I apologize. That said, while everyone else seems to have questions about how everything else works, I'm left with burning questions about the gameplay itself:

Is the map design more satisfying and strategic than Awakening's? As in, is it still just mostly open squares with your army on one side and the enemy on the other?

How true is it that there are consistently varied victory objectives in Nohr?

Are skills still horribly imbalanced?

Are higher difficulties still more of a Disgaea-esque stat competition than a strategic challenge through tricky skill and enemy placement that force you to think up new strategies?

Edited June 27, 2015 by Person with good opinions

[eclipse]

Plugging this thread, and put the link where some of the talk shifts towards what you're asking.

According to the people that watch streams/have the game, Hoshido's about the same or a wee bit harder than Awakening, and Nohr is on another level. I think that's the only thing that's answered in that thread.

[Shengar]

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=54986

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55115

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55019

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55111

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=54955

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=54960

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55050

This is all I got from the first four pages, and unless I missed something, I haven't seen any thread related to map layout, enemy placement, difficulty, chapter objectives and so on.

But that doesn't mean the discussion of gameplay does not take place. It's kinda hard to discuss them when every information we got so far are from streams and leaks. As such, those discussion tends to take place in the hype thread where people occasionally ask about gameplay stuffs and get buried. Until we get more of our resident member play the game, I expect more detailed gameplay discussion will take place.

To answer your question though, since I asked some of them in the past day, this is the impression I got:

Map design is generally more satisfying than Awakening on Hoshido; miles better on Nohr.
Higher difficulties is more about intelligent unit positioning and composition since stat growth are greatly less than what we have in Awakening and enemy replacement is trickier.

Those who played the game or watch the stream more might be able to answer this better than me.

[Person with good opinions]

I see. Thanks for the answers, both of you. I did some more reading on Lunatic and it sounds pretty good. I will probably jump straight into Nohr Lunatic/Classic once it's localized.

I did also notice character growth rates seem rather abysmal this time around, at least for some. HP growths in particular seem REALLY low.

[Shengar]

Yeah if you follow the Hoshido stream, only one or two character that managed to have HP past 40 mark IIRC during the final chapter. My guts telling that low-manning isn't possible this time around, even on Hoshido side.

[Ayra]

I can only speak of Hoshido Hard mode until chapter 19, but here's my impressions so far regarding chapter design and objectives.

Contrary to expectations, there's actually a bit variety in the objectives. So far, I've seen one "survive 13 turns" chapter, one "escape" chapter and one "catch the fleeing boss before they reach the map's edge by opening new paths with Dragon Vein".

Overall maps are better than Awakening's. Big wide open fields are rare (though there's a few). You often have the option to open up the map via Dragon Vein, sometime turning some close-quarter maps into wide open maps; however, since I'm using the Hoshido's ability to grind VERY sparsely and that the enemies are actually pretty strong comparatively, opening up the maps too much is generally suicidal. Even my +Defense General Kamui cannot tank swarm of enemies safely.

Enemy positioning is generally good. The usual "send one unit to lure one enemy" strategy is less reliable overall. You often get the whole group instead (or multiple groups sometime), which normally pose a threat (especially since your units are so fragile). Also, most enemies (besides the ones that are actually fixed in place) eventually move sometime. If you take forever and play too safe, you'll end up swarmed.

There's the series standards like units burning villages and rushing for chests (bow thieves in both cases). There's also things like damage floors, magic ballistas (first seen in chapter 17 I think), activatable tornadoes to slow flying units, ect.

Overall, I'm very impressed and having a ton of fun. Yes, I'm sure some people will completely obliterate Hoshido when the game is better known, but for a first playthrough it's probably the most enjoyable Fire Emblem experience from a gameplay perspective I've had so far. No, I'm definitively not a Lunatic player doing things optimally (I always level up too many characters for starter), but I did do things like FE4, Hector Hard Mode, Shadow Dragon at Hard** mostly blind so I'm not entirely helpless in Fire Emblem. Having things like all the stats debuffs (like Rinkah setting up kills for Orochi or ninjas) and actually having to use them for success is a great feeling, as is having punishing going ultra slow while still not forcing you to maximize all your turns. It's not mind-numbing hard, it's just "enjoyably challenging" and just perfect for me.

I can't say anything regarding Lunatic.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Ayra

[CocoaGalaxy]

Statistically speaking, the game puts less emphasis on "Overwhelming Numbers", in a sense also reflected by the weapons and growth rates (Having a super character tank everything is not nearly as possible, though it depends *cough Effie cough*)

Hoshido Route is more simplistic, but not necessarily as easy. Hoshido is still more difficult than Awakening was from what I can tell.

Hoshido is more about "brute numbers" so to speak, and the maps are quite straightforward.

Because Hoshido is more about dodging attacks than tanking them (not that the avoid formula is being very kind to you, or that generally most weapons have high hit), Hoshido cares more about the weapon triangle

Note that the enemy stats rocket up quickly, and the enemy will practically always have more HP than you. (On both routes)

Aside from potentially Kamui (and even then his growths are overly balanced so he might not grow fast enough to keep up), there aren't many characters, if any, that can tank AND reliably ORKO enemies. Hoshido has a bunch of glass cannons, Nohr has a number of slow but tanky units. Both sides do have a decent number of balanced units, like Silas who joins in both (has 40% HP/STR/SPD/DEF by default, then you add that cavaliers have balanced class growths as well)

The Dragonvein is kind of hard to comment really.

Er my comments are a bit messy, but the trait of both games is that, (in my opinion at least), trying to level everyone, which some players did, is practically suicide. You'll basically have to pick about 10-20 units and bench everyone else.

I've only seen mostly the Hoshido path, but enemies will reach like, 30str/def generals by endgame

Also unlike awakening, enemies will have skills (counter archers in nohr, vantage enemies, poison being quite common), specifically like bosses, but more so on nohr than hoshido

Nohr tries to pressurize you by slapping limits, like time limits, low unit count, ganging up on your units, more troublesome Guard Stances (2 50 hp 30str/def generals in guard stance is a pain). The Nohr units aren't terribly fast either, due to the fact that they're mostly units with 40s or so in everything, not that they're overly slow.

More specific comments further down

If not listed, means I have no real comments about the map

Hoshido 12: Map is an escape/breakthrough map. You basically have to airlift Kamui and make a run for it, the enemy is just too strong.

Hoshido 13: Camilla can dragonvein to drop lightning bolts, reducing a unit to 1 hp, who will almost certainly get slaughtered by an enemy in range

Hoshido 14: You receive Crimson, who is pretty tanky (30 hp, 20str/spd/def). The map itself is somewhat interesting, half the map is slaughter.

When you reach the top though, there's a bottleneck and a bunch of 20str/def generals/berserkers who will be more than happy to slaughter you if you don't dragonvein. Dragonvein (3 spots available) inflicts 10 damage to all enemies at the top of the map, making it easier (but they'll still slaughter you with their 20 str)

Hoshido 16: The enemy will try to block your movement with all the chokepoints in the map while the thieves get away with the treasure. If you try to rush in they'll gang up on you

Hoshido 19: Left side enemies have high res, low def, right side has high def, low res (or the other way around).

Hoshido 21: Enemy siege attackers (1-5 range) can gang up on your units, reinforcements. Half the dragonvein spots turn the land into lava, reducing movement and damaging your units. It took the streamer i was watching 2 hours and 24 turns to finish this map though

Hoshido 23: Multiple chokepoints along the map caused by the buildings and bridges. Camilla can dragonvein to deal 10 splash damage to any group of units near a river (hard to say, etc)

Paralogue Shara: 45-50 HP Nosferatus with 20str/spd, 25 def. And there are a ton of them.

Hoshido 26: Kamui has to solo Marx. Not much else to say

Hoshido 27: Garon is pretty dang strong, and the units on his left and right have some dangerous skills, potentially. You also cannot go back to my castle after this map, it's straight away into the

Hoshido Endgame: Main bet is to attempt to kill the boss in one turn, otherwise he can (I think he can anyway) heal himself.

Nohr general: Your supply of money is limited, so stronger weapons will not really be feasible to buy (Silvers cost 4000 each). I don't really think you will have that much trouble keeping your stock of staves (20 uses 800 Gold IIRC)

Nohr 6: Marx is "stuck" fighting Ryoma, and he's facing very bad hit odds. From what I can tell you'll usually be killing the other 4 enemies to reach the quota

Nohr 7: You're outnumbered, and the enemies like to use poison to damage you.

Nohr 8: The enemy basically tries to bumrush you with a whole bunch of units, You're still somewhat outnumbered, and there are no chokepoints to keep your healers safe (Problem with Elise is that she's really not that defensive. Not that Sakura is very.) Flora will also be making things difficult by freezing your units (frozen units can't move for a turn)

Nohr 9: Aqua is unequipped and has to unlock a chest and then face a samurai. The rest of your army has an ok job I think

Nohr 10: Defense Mission. Pegasus knights will attempt to make a run for it, sizable number of enemy reinforcements. There's pretty nice stuff in the villages, assuming you can get to them.

Nohr 12: Defeat boss in 16? Turns. Game forces you to rush into the enemy or you won't make it in time. Lots of chokepoints, though they may not be that helpful. Also the gimmick of pots (they block the path, breaking them will either buff or debuff units in range)

Nohr 15: You're limited to just Kamui, Gunter, Aqua. AKA NO HEALERS. You have 20 turns to escape, or defeat the boss. To defeat the boss, the Dragonvein spots create projections (same everything, shared hp, exp, etc) on the other side of the map

Nohr 16: Defeat Boss. The boss is hidden as one of the green units on the map. You have to talk to reveal him. It may or may not be predetermined.

Nohr 18: Three bosses to defeat. Two of them are generals in guard stance, aka fricking tanks. Your best bet is to clear out the area. The other boss can be taken care of with anti mage tactics (Tomebreaker helps alot)

Nohr 19: Enemies with pass will walk straight to murder Aqua and Elise. To top things off, enemies randomly turn invincible (though they cannot attack while invincible). And they're pretty powerful and dodgy to boot

Haven't seen the rest so I can't comment on them

Edited June 28, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy