Quick Questions About Tomes

[Omega's_End]

How do tomes work in this game? The reason that I am asking this is that it seems that the accuracy of tomes becomes lower at range. If this is the case, by how much is the accuracy lowered? Thank you in advance.

[Leif]

How do tomes work in this game? The reason that I am asking this is that it seems that the accuracy of tomes becomes lower at range. If this is the case, by how much is the accuracy lowered? Thank you in advance.

What? I don't think that happens at all. Accuracy stays the same regardless.

Tomes were just nerfed a lot in general. Some spells halve your magic after use, or just lower your stats, like the other weapons. There is only one true dark spell which is a shafted form of Nosferatu. Nosferatu tanking is nigh impossible now.

As said before I've heard or seen nothing about tomes becoming less accurate at range.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Leif

[Psyruby]

What? I don't think that happens at all. Accuracy stays the same regardless.

Tomes were just nerfed a lot in general. Some spells halve your magic after use, or just lower your stats, like the other weapons. There is only one true dark spell which is a shafted form of Nosferatu. Nosferatu tanking is nigh impossible now.

As said before I've heard or seen nothing about tomes becoming less accurate at range.

Nosferatu was nerfed, but it isn't bad still. Sorcerer's aren't going to double anyone anytime soon, criticals aren't very easy to achieve unless you build around it, and Nosferatu is still quite a bit of tempo gain with the Sorcerer's high Magic. A permanent Sol effect is nothing to scoff at.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Psyruby

[Leif]

Nosferatu was nerfed, but it isn't bad still. Sorcerer's aren't going to double anyone anytime soon, criticals aren't very easy to achieve unless you build around it, and Nosferatu is still quite a bit of tempo gain with the Sorcerer's high Magic. A permanent Sol effect is nothing to scoff at.

I see that, but the risk seems to outweigh the reward. It could be useful if you recovered the exact amount of damage you dealt instead of half your damage output. I mean you are only attacking once.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Leif

[Othin]

There's a Dark Mage skill called Bind that cuts adjacent enemies' Avoid by 20.

[Psyruby]

I see that, but the risk seems to outweigh the reward. It could be useful if you recovered the exact amount of damage you dealt instead of half your damage output. I mean you are only attacking once.

I think there is a disconnection that people don't seem to understand about Magic. Magic was broken. Like flat out it was. It was as powerful as the other options, but you could attack 1 or 2 away. Which meant you could attack without the opponent hitting you. It's a misnomer to think of Spells/Tomes as 1 for 1, because just by having Range 1-2, they are in fact 2 for 1 with no doubling involved. If a character can't double a Sorcerer, Nosferatu is the best Tempo tome to use STILL. In fact, the only spell that has comparable tempo is Horse God, and that's cause it allows you to take less damage AND be more likely to not be doubled or double yourself.

[senketsu]

But magic always used a durability even if you missed, that was its downside. Now it is nerfed to much.

[Jariu]

But magic always used a durability even if you missed, that was its downside. Now it is nerfed to much.

This should tell you precisely why they nerfed it so, due to the weapon durability mecanic being gone this was one of the more easy and viable options as the only other way to keep them with their 1-2 advantage while still having a drawback that wouldn't make them straight out broken like in say, Awakening, would be something going the Gaiden route of it costing something else which in that case was HP, which doesn't need a long explanation of why it's not a good idea along the fact that it was exploidable as hell among other things, you do lose some stats with a number of them but if you plan accordingly it really shouldn't be a big issue.

As Psyruby said, magic was broken, while Awakening is the main exemple by far it really is a series thing that magic was a lot of the time simply the better option to dispatch an enemy, on the other hand too we also must remember that regular 1-2 weapons have also been nerfed so they can't double, granted a few times in the past the 1-2 range and power of a Sage could easily be ignored by the sheer durability and strenght of a Paladin with a javelin (FE8.txt), this simply is not the case anymore as javelins can't double, and this also goes for hand axes and so on.

In general FE14 has changed A LOT of things we simply had for a given in previous entries, I honestly don't think we should judge the gameplay of this game (games?) the same way we judge previous ones, this is simply a completely different beast, I guess this is what FE4/5 felt like for those who played it back then.

[nocturnal YL]

But magic always used a durability even if you missed, that was its downside. Now it is nerfed to much.

I recall that this is not the case in Awakening.

Fire Emblem has a habit of making magic good and bad alternatively. Mages was somewhat viable in Path of Radiance, then Radiant Dawn made magic completely unusable. I can see that repeating here.

[Leif]

I recall that this is not the case in Awakening.

Fire Emblem has a habit of making magic good and bad alternatively. Mages was somewhat viable in Path of Radiance, then Radiant Dawn made magic completely unusable. I can see that repeating here.

Yeah, however, it seems like that Witch class is so OP (judging from its max stats) that it outshines Exorcists, Dark Knights, Strategists, and Sorcerers. Too bad it is limited to females only (argh).

Mage HP, though, caps are terrible and I am getting serious Radiant Dawn vibes here. The Exorcist has 45 max HP, like IIyana's Archsage class!!! That's pretty terrible if you ask me.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Leif

[Psyruby]

Yeah, however, it seems like that Witch class is so OP (judging from its max stats) that it outshines Exorcists, Dark Knights, Strategists, and Sorcerers. Too bad it is limited to females only (argh).

Mage HP, though, caps are terrible and I am getting serious Radiant Dawn vibes here. The Exorcist has 45 max HP, like IIyana's Archsage class!!! That's pretty terrible if you ask me.

The Exorcist's HP and Defense caps are garbage, but it also has some of the highest damage output in the game in an ideal state. Line of Death + Tomefaire + Extravagance on an exorcist makes it possible to OHKO a General with the Brave spell. If anyone thinks this setup isn't possible, then guess what, there are TWO characters in the game that have all those skills from their main and sub classes. Izana and Yukimura. Also, if you buddy/marriage seal Orochi to have Samurai, she can also have this set up.

Magic classes aren't OP in this game, but they aren't (all) garbage. Strategist and Revenant Knight are the only magic classes I worry about, and only cause they are outclassed.

EDIT: On a different magical note, I'm going to say that staves are more important than ever. With things like Draw, Freeze, and Weaken, staves have very powerful effects that command battlefields and deserve respect.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Psyruby

[Zachmac]

Yeah, however, it seems like that Witch class is so OP (judging from its max stats) that it outshines Exorcists, Dark Knights, Strategists, and Sorcerers. Too bad it is limited to females only (argh).

Witches may outshine the other magic classes as raw magic users, but that doesn't mean there isn't a reason to use the other magic users.

Exorcist and Strategist can use staves; Dark Knights also have swords and pretty good defense.

[Othin]

Also, even though Witch can use dark magic like Sorcerers, it has to give up a skill slot for it. It doesn't outclass anything; every other class has some advantages. Plus from what I understand Sorcerer has some inbuilt combat bonuses like +10 crit; I don't know if Witch is confirmed to get bonuses at all or ones that are as good.

[Tamarsamar]

Quick question: do Dark Knights have Nosferatu access for once? It'd seem rather arbitrary to limit it to "Dark Mage classes" when you can't get to Dark Knight any other way this game . . .

[Leif]

Quick question: do Dark Knights have Nosferatu access for once? It'd seem rather arbitrary to limit it to "Dark Mage classes" when you can't get to Dark Knight any other way this game . . .

No, they don't use Dark Magic. Leo's personal weapon only looks like Dark Magic, but it isn't..

[Xeniferos]

I think there is a disconnection that people don't seem to understand about Magic. Magic was broken. Like flat out it was. It was as powerful as the other options, but you could attack 1 or 2 away. Which meant you could attack without the opponent hitting you. It's a misnomer to think of Spells/Tomes as 1 for 1, because just by having Range 1-2, they are in fact 2 for 1 with no doubling involved. If a character can't double a Sorcerer, Nosferatu is the best Tempo tome to use STILL. In fact, the only spell that has comparable tempo is Horse God, and that's cause it allows you to take less damage AND be more likely to not be doubled or double yourself.

Couldn't you still, in theory, build a character around Nostanking? Defensive Formation, among other passive skills, along with damage reduction skills from allies could potentially contribute to a pretty solid Nostank strategy.

Edit: Sorc's DEF isn't fantastic, but it isn't too terrible. Its RES is fairly nice. Characters like Benoit and Ignis could probably make pretty neat Nostank setups due to their DEF/RES modifiers and access to Defensive Formation if their MAG stats/growths weren't utter trash, right?

Edited July 19, 2015 by Xeniferos

[Leif]

Couldn't you still, in theory, build a character around Nostanking? Defensive Formation, among other passive skills, along with damage reduction skills from allies could potentially contribute to a pretty solid Nostank strategy.

Edit: Sorc's DEF isn't fantastic, but it isn't too terrible. Its RES is fairly nice. Characters like Benoit and Ignis could probably make pretty neat Nostank setups due to their DEF/RES modifiers and access to Defensive Formation if their MAG stats/growths weren't utter trash, right?

It seems like Mag growths for physical units are so bad in this game that you are better off leaving them in melee-based classes. There are those, like Saizou, who have good strength and magic growths, though.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Leif

[astrophys]

On the topic of Saizou, the Avatar can also be one of the units with a good strength and magic growth if you take +MAG, although that comes at the cost of a flaw elsewhere….

[Shadow Mir]

But magic always used a durability even if you missed, that was its downside. Now it is nerfed to much.

Not true. That stopped in Shadow Dragon.

EDIT:

Also, even though Witch can use dark magic like Sorcerers, it has to give up a skill slot for it. It doesn't outclass anything; every other class has some advantages. Plus from what I understand Sorcerer has some inbuilt combat bonuses like +10 crit; I don't know if Witch is confirmed to get bonuses at all or ones that are as good.

Witches get +10 Crit and Avoid (according to the site, at least).

Edited July 20, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Psyruby]

Couldn't you still, in theory, build a character around Nostanking? Defensive Formation, among other passive skills, along with damage reduction skills from allies could potentially contribute to a pretty solid Nostank strategy.

Edit: Sorc's DEF isn't fantastic, but it isn't too terrible. Its RES is fairly nice. Characters like Benoit and Ignis could probably make pretty neat Nostank setups due to their DEF/RES modifiers and access to Defensive Formation if their MAG stats/growths weren't utter trash, right?

You won't be tanking with Nosferatu anymore. Tanking is taking several units on at the same time without much issue, that's a Generals job. Sorcerers can tempo opponents out. This means that they can defeat one enemy by having better life swings. Nosferatu is amazing at life swinging. Sorcerer's weren't going to double, critical, or reliably activate any skill other than Vengeance. Nosferatu also has good might(in this game 7 might is above average for magic), and healing back 1/2 the damage done is like having an attack be 1.5x effective. Combine this with the Sorcerer's defensive stats, middling speed, and high magic, and you have a unit that will survive a 1v1 encounter that doesn't have the opponent doubling them easily. However, if a Sorcerer was engaged in a 1v2or3or4, it will probably fall pretty quickly due to the low health and average defense.

Keep in mind, that 1v1 means a sorcerer can 2-4-1 a unit, whereas a 1v3 you can only 2-4-3. Another thing, Nosferatu only has 70 acc. obviously the downfall of this tome are units with high avoid. In this case, I would actually say Flamboyant, Lucky 7, Underdog, or Raven Strike is important to have on a sorcerer(especially with their bad skill and luck).

Edited July 20, 2015 by Psyruby

[Shadow Mir]

You won't be tanking with Nosferatu anymore. Tanking is taking several units on at the same time without much issue, that's a Generals job. Sorcerers can tempo opponents out. This means that they can defeat one enemy by having better life swings. Nosferatu is amazing at life swinging. Sorcerer's weren't going to double, critical, or reliably activate any skill other than Vengeance. Nosferatu also has good might(in this game 7 might is above average for magic), and healing back 1/2 the damage done is like having an attack be 1.5x effective. Combine this with the Sorcerer's defensive stats, middling speed, and high magic, and you have a unit that will survive a 1v1 encounter that doesn't have the opponent doubling them easily. However, if a Sorcerer was engaged in a 1v2or3or4, it will probably fall pretty quickly due to the low health and average defense.

Keep in mind, that 1v1 means a sorcerer can 2-4-1 a unit, whereas a 1v3 you can only 2-4-3. Another thing, Nosferatu only has 70 acc. obviously the downfall of this tome are units with high avoid. In this case, I would actually say Flamboyant, Lucky 7, Underdog, or Raven Strike is important to have on a sorcerer(especially with their bad skill and luck).

I'd imagine they aren't going to reliably activate Vengeance any more, given the activation rate nerf (before modifiers, they can only get a 39% activation rate at best).

[Bovinian]

I'd imagine they aren't going to reliably activate Vengeance any more, given the activation rate nerf (before modifiers, they can only get a 39% activation rate at best).

Actually I believe Nosferatu can no longer activate Vengeance at all; all proc skills and crits are disabled while using it lol (same with stuff like javelins and levin swords)

[Shadow Mir]

Actually I believe Nosferatu can no longer activate Vengeance at all; all proc skills and crits are disabled while using it lol (same with stuff like javelins and levin swords)

Yep, there's that too.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Psyruby]

Yeah, they have that clause on nosferatu cause it already has a permanent Sol effect. If you start mixing Sol with other abilities, things will get crazy. imo, a 100% sol is worth no other skills.

[Othin]

Wait I swear there's a boss that has Vengeance despite having Nosferatu as their only weapon; I think they're in Velour's chapter. So what the hell.