General US Politics

[Lord Raven]

Also notice the number of black people replying to that with "hey guess what BLM DC, I disagree with you, because that's the goal." Surely that is not representative of the people who support the BLM movement?

I mean, tuvarkz, I get it. You're racist and you're misogynistic and you finally found the ideal candidate for yourself.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Phoenix Wright]

he's not in the us, so really it's his daydream candidate

[-Cynthia-]

Some recent evidence from a Department of Justice report does conclude that the Baltimore police department continually committed civil rights violations on the basis of race. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-findings-investigation-baltimore-police-department While some BLM supporters undermine their cause by committing or supporting violent action, this is not sufficient reason to offhandedly dismiss any discrimination claims.

Edited August 18, 2016 by -Cynthia-

[Time the Crestfallen]

Oh, you mean the chapter that got called out by BLM DC as unofficial? I'll have to see if there's any other potential factors to those numbers, but it doesn't justify intentionally disrupting the traffic, particularly blocking the way to airports.

What's that? One chapter of a movement is saying that another chapter isn't acting in a way that's true to the movement's goals? Who'd a thunk it? Seriously, this is hardly unique to BLM, or are you saying that all Christians denominations have the exact same beliefs and have no bad blood between each other for instance?

Also, I'm not seeing how disrupting traffic is more heinous a crime than statistically provable racial profiling, nor why blocking the way to the airport is so evil that you felt the need to point it out.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Phillius

[Moblin Major General]

What's that? One chapter of a movement is saying that another chapter isn't acting in a way that's true to the movement's goals? Who'd a thunk it? Seriously, this is hardly unique to BLM, or are you saying that all Christians denominations have the exact same beliefs and have no bad blood between each other?

Also, I'm not seeing how disrupting traffic is more heinous a crime than statistically provable racial profiling, nor why blocking the way to the airport is so evil that you felt the need to point it out.

Because it causes car accidents, and on a 70mph speed limit highway, any that would result have a high probability of being fatal. Highway marches are illegal for that reason. Sure, the brutality is there, we know it's there, and nothing's been done to stop it. Would the lives of the innocents taken by the accidents they caused be worth saving brutality victims scars, spots on their records, et cetera? No, not in that way. Highway commuters need to be left alone when protesting, as disrupting them punishes an untold number of people.

[Ansem]

The Milwaukee protest makes me cringe, the suspect was armed and violence weakens the whole movement by giving ammunition to Trump's camp. I wonder what kind of shit for brains some of these protesters have =/

[Time the Crestfallen]

Because it causes car accidents, and on a 70mph speed limit highway, any that would result have a high probability of being fatal. Highway marches are illegal for that reason. Sure, the brutality is there, we know it's there, and nothing's been done to stop it. Would the lives of the innocents taken by the accidents they caused be worth saving brutality victims scars, spots on their records, et cetera? No, not in that way. Highway commuters need to be left alone when protesting, as disrupting them punishes an untold number of people.

I was about to point out that 70mph isn't a lot, but then I realised that I was thinking in terms of kilometers not miles.

Also, I mentioned traffic generally, not just highways. If you look through the link he provided, some of them are very clearly not on a highway. Is disrupting city traffic just as bad as disrupting highway traffic? Besides, if people are driving responsibly then there will be no accident. If somebody isn't leaving enough space between them and the car in front so that they can break in the event of a sudden stop, that's their fault.

The Milwaukee protest makes me cringe, the suspect was armed and violence weakens the whole movement by giving ammunition to Trump's camp. I wonder what kind of shit for brains some of these protesters have =/

The suspect also had a long history of crime and refused to follow instructions. It's about as justified as a police shooting as such a shooting is likely to get and that's without considering that the officer was black himself. And yet, to my knowledge they protested this by wrecking street signs and stoplights, setting a gas station on fire and attempting to drag white people out of their cars so they could beat them. Great job guys

[blah the Prussian]

Blocking highways is a crime, plain and simple. When BLM protests legally that's fine, but I have no objection to them being detained if they block a highway. Think of the working class people who could lose their jobs.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Blocking highways is a crime, plain and simple. When BLM protests legally that's fine, but I have no objection to them being detained if they block a highway. Think of the working class people who could lose their jobs.

Being detained? Sure, I get that. Treating it as if they'd violated someone's grandmother and somehow worse than the racial discrimination they face is what gets to me. As is saying 'but someone could've died' since that would be the result of irresponsible driving rather than anything done by the protesters.

[blah the Prussian]

Being detained? Sure, I get that. Treating it as if they'd violated someone's grandmother and somehow worse than the racial discrimination they face is what gets to me. As is saying 'but someone could've died' since that would be the result of irresponsible driving rather than anything done by the protesters.

Or it could be the result of an ambulance being delayed because the protesters had to get out of the way. But no, I'm by no means saying its morally equivalent to police shooting people.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Or it could be the result of an ambulance being delayed because the protesters had to get out of the way. But no, I'm by no means saying its morally equivalent to police shooting people.

I'll give you that one. Rommel specifically mentioned accidents, so I guess I was still thinking in terms of rear-ending someone.

[The DanMan]

The Milwaukee protest makes me cringe, the suspect was armed and violence weakens the whole movement by giving ammunition to Trump's camp. I wonder what kind of shit for brains some of these protesters have =/

Yeah, it's stupid. For every genuine case of police brutality, there's another one that's framed as such but is missing key details (guy had previous criminal history + had turned around with his gun drawn).

[Tryhard]

To be fair, Phillius, outside of being searched, the UK police are generally pretty good at not shooting unarmed black suspects (or shooting at all, as they prefer not to use weapons), as to my memory the last time that happened and the only thing those protestors can cite is Mark Duggan, which sparked widespread riots just from that. Even despite that, there is evidence to put doubt on whether he was armed or not, and it was ruled that it was a lawful killing. (as he was found to be armed)

Unfortunately, we also engage in the same sort of "war on drugs" pointlessness that the US do that leads to a lot of discrimination in terms of searching.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Tryhard

[Life]

I've got an issue with the way we treat Islamic Radicalization and Black Lives Matter.

First of all, it's so frustrating to point out that institutionalized racism does not exist in the police force because nobody wants to admit that. Hell, the black sheriff of Milwalkee even says that.

He says that about a city that has not had a Republican mayor since JFK was elected and after a black cop shot a black kid (justifiably). To which the black community rioted and looted their own city and screamed "get the white people".

Sure, let's blame conservatives for that. I mean, this same shit happened in Baltimore and Ferguson. All it does is promote racism against white people (which is still racism). And BLM is at the forefront, promoting racism while ignoring that the vast majority of these cases are actually lawful uses of force.

That's usually a nice segue into a topic about the 2nd Ammendment but I have an even bigger fish to fry.

Islam.

The first problem is that none of you don't understand the word "-phobia".

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I don't have an irrational fear of Islam. I have a very rational one and so should gays, women, blacks and every other minority (before mentioning everyone else).

I'm a Jew. There are multiple passages in the Koran and Hadith that call for my death because I am a Jew. Full stop. Want literal proof? Remember the Charlie Hebdo attacks? What about the concurrent attack on a kosher supermarket?

Gays? 50% of Muslims in London believe that having a gay lifestyle is worthy of imprisonment. Not Tehran, not Medina, not Dubai. London, England. In Arab countries (which are, you guessed it, Muslim), homosexuality is punishable with death.

Women? The Koran plainly says that if a woman disobeys her husband, he should beat her until she obeys. And of course, women are worth "half a person". Which excuses rape because per Sharia law (which is practiced across the Middle East), a woman requires no less than four witnesses to prove rape. Four fucking witnesses. I can barely get four people to agree on a restaurant for dinner in a civilized country.

But don't quote me on this. Go look at Aynaz Anni Cyrus's stuff. She is Iranian born to very religious parents, was married off at age 13 (let's not forget pedophilia in the religion) and managed to escape the religion and country. So I would think that she knows what she's talking about.

Skip to 22:54 for Anni speaking with Crowder about Islam. And watch the full interview (about 20 minutes) before responding back with "not all Muslims are like this".

By the way, Aynaz's most interesting point is that Islam isn't a religion but rather an ideology with a God and Prophet.

At the end of the day, why am I supposed to believe that these attitudes are acceptable? I'm not speading hate. I have no problem with blacks and Muslims. But we need to start calling out these problems as they are rather than excusing them. And both the black and Muslims need to decide if they are going to condemn or condone this behaviour. Currently, it's condone.

PS: I'm very sure that the reaction to this post is "you're racist and Islamaphobic". Let me be clear: I hate racism just as much as the next person. But criticizing communities for serious issues =/= "racism" especially when people like Aynaz Anni Cyrus and David Clarke (the black police sheriff of Milwalkee) are saying the exact same thing.

[Tryhard]

I kinda doubt anyone would disagree with you pointing at specific Muslims who have shown themselves to be homophobic, misogynist etc. and condemning their behaviour, just the same as any other person. Indeed, you can also point to the religion of Islam itself and state where you are critical of the fundamentalist views, just the same as any other religion. But I'm not going to entertain the idea that an amorphous group of those who follow a religion being labelled as 'all' believe this, just as despite Christianity (which did feature the stoning of women for not being a virgin, fundamentally believed them as lower classed citizens and traditionally also encouraged women to cover their heads, which is now defunct) and probably other religions having traditionally anti-gay or anti-woman views, we can't say all Christians (or even most) are homophobic or violent.

I'm not defending nor condoning the worse parts of Islam, or Christianity, or any other religion, but I can't in good conscience be fearful of every brown person I meet because they might be an extremist Muslim. But yes, indeed I would say that people who condone those actions are extremely disagreeable and I would have no problem calling out such issues, but let's stick to facts and be somewhat reasonable when generalising a whole group of people in something as amorphous as followers of a religion. I don't have time to watch the entire video right now but if you really see this as "not all Muslims are like this" then I wonder how you view them.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Tryhard

[Comet]

see tryhard's post. refugees also have lower crime rates than native born citizens, as stated in previous posts. if you're scared of them, you might as well take notes from the conspiracy theory and mind everything around you, even the trees, since they're on the queen's side.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Comet

[-Cynthia-]

How does one sherriff(of any race) count as sufficient evidence for instituionalized racism not existing? I can find one person to say all sorts of things, doesn't make it true. If people want to make the claim that the BLM movement is not grounded in reality, let's see some research.

I don't condone what people in many majority Muslim countries believe or do. In the United States however, Muslims are a small minority that don't have much political influence and may not be representative of what happens in Muslim majority countries regardless. For instance, Muslim women in the U.S. are at least as likely to have a postgraduate degree as men and are more commonly in professional fields than women of other religions. http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/2009/03/gallup-muslim-americans-the-mo.html/

Edited August 19, 2016 by -Cynthia-

[Life]

see tryhard's post. refugees also have lower crime rates than native born citizens, as stated in previous posts. if you're scared of them, you might as well take notes from the conspiracy theory and mind everything around you, even the trees, since they're on the queen's side.

So, the refugee crisis in places like Sweden and Germany and the historic amount of rape/sexual assault cases are simply correlation and really have no bearing on reality?

You can put on blinders all you want but the fact remains that there are a significant amount of Sharia law based countries in the Middle East and this is beginning to happen in Europe. Europeans used the same arguments that you have now and guess what happened?

This isn't a conspiracy, people. When you have men yelling "Allahu Akbar" before shooting up nightclubs and concert halls in developed countries, it's time to admit the problem. If you have women who are beaten and threatened with death for leaving the religion, that is a problem. When you have gays tossed off of roofs in Homs and Muslims in New York are somewhat sympathetic to this, you have a problem.

I'm going to expand on Aynaz's idea. Islam is not a religion. A religion is based on faith. There is no faith component to Islam. You either follow the Koran as a good Muslim or you are an apostate with the punishment of death. Turning your back on the religion is also punishable by death. That is essentially verbatim from Koran and Hadith.

Can the religion become reformed and this "religion of peace" that liberals claim it is? Absolutely. But a bloody civil war will need to take place to do that.

[Time the Crestfallen]

<snip>

Fun fact, this is the Muslim world population from 2010 (the most modern source I could find. Sorry. I'll see if I can find a better one latter):

Please not that the Middle Eastern nations (the ones I assume you have a major beef with) make up less than 20% of the global Muslim population. While I too have concerns about the migrant crisis, your posts come across as a critique of the entire Muslim population of the world which, unless you can prove that the Asia-Pacific Muslims are 'just as bad' as the Middle Eastern nations, is more than a little tasteless. I apologise if that isn't what you were implying.

[Life]

Fun fact, this is the Muslim world population from 2010 (the most modern source I could find. Sorry. I'll see if I can find a better one latter):

Please not that the Middle Eastern nations (the ones I assume you have a major beef with) make up less than 20% of the global Muslim population. While I too have concerns about the migrant crisis, your posts come across as a critique of the entire Muslim population of the world which, unless you can prove that the Asia-Pacific Muslims are 'just as bad' as the Middle Eastern nations, is more than a little tasteless. I apologise if that isn't what you were implying.

I have not implied that because I said exactly what I meant.

Radical Islam. That force that has ripped two full countries apart in a matter of years (Syria and Iraq) and is responsible for many of the ongoing conflicts right now. That is what I said.

I also said (very clearly) that I have no problem with Muslims. But Sharia law is both barbaric and evil. That is an undeniable fact. And Sharia law begins to get implemented when mosques go up, as per the rules of the religion. A mosque is NOT a place of prayer but rather a Sharia court.

Please do not misrepresent my argument.

[Time the Crestfallen]

I also said (very clearly) that I have no problem with Muslims. But Sharia law is both barbaric and evil. That is an undeniable fact. And Sharia law begins to get implemented when mosques go up, as per the rules of the religion. A mosque is NOT a place of prayer but rather a Sharia court.

Please do not misrepresent my argument.

A Muslim is someone who practices Islam. With that in mind, let's see what else you've said.

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. I don't have an irrational fear of Islam. I have a very rational one and so should gays, women, blacks and every other minority (before mentioning everyone else).

Gays? 50% of Muslims in London believe that having a gay lifestyle is worthy of imprisonment. Not Tehran, not Medina, not Dubai. London, England. In Arab countries (which are, you guessed it, Muslim), homosexuality is punishable with death.

I'm going to expand on Aynaz's idea. Islam is not a religion. A religion is based on faith. There is no faith component to Islam. You either follow the Koran as a good Muslim or you are an apostate with the punishment of death. Turning your back on the religion is also punishable by death. That is essentially verbatim from Koran and Hadith.

Can the religion become reformed and this "religion of peace" that liberals claim it is? Absolutely. But a bloody civil war will need to take place to do that.

Yes, I see no way in which any of this could be misinterpreted . There's also the part above where you say that the construction of Mosques, which despite what you seem to think, are nothing more than places of worship, which is very unfortunate in terms of implications.

[Life]

A Muslim is someone who practices Islam. With that in mind, let's see what else you've said.

Yes, I see no way in which any of this could be misinterpreted . There's also the part above where you say that the construction of Mosques, which despite what you seem to think, are nothing more than places of worship, which is very unfortunate in terms of implications.

Did you not watch the video I linked?

According to Aynaz Anni Cyrus who:

- Grew up in Iran

- Had an Imam for a father and a religious teacher for woman as a mother

- Was married off at the age of 13

- Was beaten by family and her husband

- Has a fatwa out on her head (that is a death sentence) because she rejected the religion, making her an apostate like you and me

According to her, she clearly says that a mosque is a Sharia court and not a place of worship. An imam who runs a mosque is a Sharia judge.

Sorry, I'm going to believe her over you. I would like to believe that she knows a bit more about Islam than you. First clue is that she can quote Koran off the top of her head.

Don't like Steven Crowder because he might be a bit of an ass? How about Anni's personal podcast? Go in with an open mind.

http://liveuptofreedom.com/2016/05/there-is-only-one-islam/

Edited August 19, 2016 by Right Wing Nut Job

[tuvarkz]

see tryhard's post. refugees also have lower crime rates than native born citizens, as stated in previous posts. if you're scared of them, you might as well take notes from the conspiracy theory and mind everything around you, even the trees, since they're on the queen's side.

Actually, let's bring up some statistics for this. This is an official report on crime leading up to 2015 (direct link). On page 44 ot the 135 pages (pdf total pagecount, the document lists it as page 40) there is a graph (Table 8.1-G01): First-generation immigrants committed around 20% of the around 2.25-2.5 million crimes each year in Germany from 2001 to 2013; with a spike to 30-40% of the crimes. Germans make for 92% of the total population, give or take. This means that the 8% that is made of immigrants was committing 20% of crime, and now it's jumped to almost 40%. It's easy to conclude that at least in Germany, as of last year, immigrants had a significantly higher crime rate than Germans did.

EDIT: I'll not bother answering the ad hominems, but I'll mention that Trump is not my ideal candidate. There's some mildly important issues that I disagree with him on (Net neutrality, ecology); but I believe he is the best choice for the US (and for the world, due to the US's role in the global scenario). And neither would he be my ideal candidate if he was running in my country, as I believe the changes needed in my country are significantly different than those needed in the US.

Edited August 19, 2016 by tuvarkz

[Time the Crestfallen]

Did you not watch the video I linked?

According to Aynaz Anni Cyrus who:

- Grew up in Iran

- Had an Imam for a father and a religious teacher for woman as a mother

- Was married off at the age of 13

- Was beaten by family and her husband

- Has a fatwa out on her head (that is a death sentence) because she rejected the religion, making her an apostate like you and me

According to her, she clearly says that a mosque is a Sharia court and not a place of worship. An imam who runs a mosque is a Sharia judge.

Sorry, I'm going to believe her over you. I would like to believe that she knows a bit more about Islam than you. First clue is that she can quote Koran off the top of her head.

Don't like Steven Crowder because he might be a bit of an ass? How about Anni's personal podcast? Go in with an open mind.

http://liveuptofreedom.com/2016/05/there-is-only-one-islam/

I have one question; if she grew up in Iran, which I will readily admit is a pretty fucked up place for a variety of reasons, did all of the above also take place in Iran? Because I'm not going to use Iran as a measuring stick for all Muslims in the same way I wouldn't use fundamentalist cults from Bumfuck Nowhere in any given Bible-Belt state as a measuring stick for all Christians.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Phillius

[Life]

As for me, I'm on the fence with Donald Trump.

On the one hand, I can never vote for Hillary. Gun to my head, I'll take the bullet. But Donald Trump puts me off so much and he doesn't respect Conservatives or understand their way of thinking.

I do think that he'll unshackle the free market from government control (which is excellent in my opinion) but is the juice worth the squeeze?

I have one question; if she grew up in Iran, which I will readily admit is a pretty fucked up place for a variety of reasons, did all of the above also take place in Iran? Because I'm not going to use Iran as a measuring stick for all Muslims in the same way I wouldn't use fundamentalist cults from Bumfuck Nowhere in any given Bible-Belt state as a measuring stick for all Christians.

Are you saying that honour killings occur nowhere else in the world?

Are you saying that it is just a coincidence that British Muslims believe that homosexuality should be illegal?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/

By the way, that's CNN reporting on that one. Not even the left can spin that to show Islam being tolerant.

Is it a coincidence that 87% of Muslim women in Bangladesh (which is Asia and not even Middle East) suffer from domestic abuse?

http://m.asianews.it/index.php?art=30204&l=en

Why does Islam get a free pass? Why do you feel the need to apologize for a culture that doesn't see the need to do so for themselves?

Edited August 19, 2016 by Right Wing Nut Job