Res Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, Water Mage said: Wait, he's still going on about the NFL kneeling thing? With all due respect to Americans, but I think there are far more important things than a flag. Not only is he going on about it, but they spent an exorbitant amount sending Pence to a game to have him walk out in protest, and yes, it was staged. Good to see he's still taking credit for the previous administrations' effects on the stock market and what else can I do about the tax tweet except laugh? It'll mean unprecedented cuts for the 1% and a whole loss of funding to all kinds of assistance programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Tryhard said: His presidency. In all seriousness, Trump is getting very little done and looking pretty bad while doing it. He may have distraction tactics, but they ring ultimately hollow because he's going to be judged at the end of this all anyway. I know you meant that as a joke, but you might be onto something. I'm taking political psychology class, and my teacher pointed it out to me. According to him, more and more often, Trump is pointing the mistakes of others, and rarely talking about what himself has done recently. It might be a strategy to make people forget about his failed promises. Also, I've meant to say to say before, but is he really taking credit for the market growth? I actually researched this, and the only thing that can be credited to him is more Americans buying American products. Other than that, I thought Wall Street was ignoring Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 It's deflection. And it works because a large reason why his voter base voted for him in the first place was because of all the librul tears in his wake, and they don't really care about his own personal conduct: only that they share the same enemy. I mean we keep pointing out how bad he is, again, they don't care and right now it doesn't really matter. Being factually accurate or having principles is really, really not his appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Agent 707 said: It's deflection. And it works because a large reason why his voter base voted for him in the first place was because of all the librul tears in his wake, and they don't really care about his own personal conduct: only that they share the same enemy. I mean we keep pointing out how bad he is, again, they don't care and right now it doesn't really matter. Being factually accurate or having principles is really, really not his appeal. They definitely makes up a sizable portion of his voter base, but let's not forget that over 70% of Evangelical Christians - the moralizers - voted for and support Trump. I also know of quite a few middle-aged, middle-class folk who voted for him for more genuine reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) And they've voted (and will vote again) for him for the same reasons. They're not voting for him for his Evangelical Christian values lol. The guy literally flip-flopped on the abortion issue, bragged about his attempts at adultery, and it is rare to find someone who isn't a larger epitome of greed. Edited October 11, 2017 by Agent 707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) This is interesting https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/donald-trump-is-unraveling-white-house-advisers basically bannon thinks trump is senile, and many of our congressman are senile. Trump may leave due to the 22nd amendment EDIT: 25th where the fuck did I get 22 from Edited October 11, 2017 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: This is interesting https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/donald-trump-is-unraveling-white-house-advisers basically bannon thinks trump is senile, and many of our congressman are senile. Trump may leave due to the 22nd amendment Ha, I just read that and was debating posting it. Honestly, I do believe he is senile. I'll try never to armchair-diagnose someone but many of his transcripts and tweets can't help but give the impression of someone who is. 7 minutes ago, Agent 707 said: And they've voted (and will vote again) for him for the same reasons. They're not voting for him for his Evangelical Christian values lol. The guy literally flip-flopped on the abortion issue, bragged about his attempts at adultery, and it is rare to find someone who isn't a larger epitome of greed. Agreed; still, that's a portion of his voter base who might at least care a little. And forget mere adultery, he bragged about outright sexual assault... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 57 minutes ago, Lord Raven said: basically bannon thinks trump is senile, and many of our congressman are senile. Well, he was how much older than Reagan when he took office? He's literally the oldest president we've elected. Ever. And our senators being old and senile is a symptom of people thinking age=experience, and that experience=having the right opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time the Crestfallen Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Lord Raven said: This is interesting https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/donald-trump-is-unraveling-white-house-advisers basically bannon thinks trump is senile, and many of our congressman are senile. Trump may leave due to the 22nd amendment EDIT: 25th where the fuck did I get 22 from From the looks of things, 'senile' might be an understatement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moblin Major General Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, Magus of Flowers said: From the looks of things, 'senile' might be an understatement. I wouldn't trust Vox if I were you. Still, it raises an interesting point. Also, @Lord Raven, I know you edited it to make more sense, but I would hope Trump would be forced out by the 22nd amendment, otherwise he's everything everybody feared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SullyMcGully Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Res said: They definitely makes up a sizable portion of his voter base, but let's not forget that over 70% of Evangelical Christians - the moralizers - voted for and support Trump. I also know of quite a few middle-aged, middle-class folk who voted for him for more genuine reasons. Well, a vote for Trump is a vote against Hillary! Or so the theory goes. Don't get the wrong idea about us Evangelicals. We aren't all that pleased with the president's morals. However, Hillary would have likely been a worse situation for us. At least a lot of Trump's appointees fit with the Evangelical mold. Folks like Mike Pence, Jeff Sessions, and Neal Gorsuch are all fairly respectable within the Christian community. Edited October 12, 2017 by SullyMcGully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) Yeah I don't think I have the wrong idea about evangelicals who voted for Trump. I guess you can add 'Hillary' to the list with 'librul tears'. Can't say I look forward to the fake (and likely hypocritical) outrage likely to swell up in the wake of the next Democrat who takes office... Though it's worth noting that I'd take Pence at this point, tbh. EDIT: Actually add 'supreme court pick' and I think that'd round out the list. Edited October 12, 2017 by Agent 707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Mike Pence isn't exactly preferable given he's in favor of conversion therapy and is considered far-right even within his own party. The only 'good' thing is he's less likely to cause nuclear war. Robert Reich posted a conversation he had on his Facebook which is of no surprise if it's true; the main focus is on money, and on the tax cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I am aware of his history. Mike Pence wouldn't be a whole lot different than any other conservative Republican. He is wrong, but he is wrong within typical politician parameters. Trump is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-anti-lgbt-address-hate-group-summit-meeting-first-president-us-homphobia-a7997401.html looks like all of the worst parts of pence is now in trump, without any redeeming qualities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 15 hours ago, Lord Raven said: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-anti-lgbt-address-hate-group-summit-meeting-first-president-us-homphobia-a7997401.html looks like all of the worst parts of pence is now in trump, without any redeeming qualities "Arriving at the event, Trump said it was great “to be among friends” as he declared: “We are returning moral clarity to our view of the world.”" But Hillary would've done... what, again? Taken away guns or something? On 10/11/2017 at 9:41 PM, Agent 707 said: I am aware of his history. Mike Pence wouldn't be a whole lot different than any other conservative Republican. He is wrong, but he is wrong within typical politician parameters. Trump is not. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you weren't aware. :) My thought process was that he'd be more effective at actually passing legislature than Trump precisely because he is more of a politician. And this is just pure spite, either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I don't think he would be more effective at passing legislation. Republicans have all the power currently and they still can't do much lol. I mean, I guess he wouldn't be as moronic as Trump initially was with the travel ban roll-out, but other than that...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 The only real improvement with a Pence presidency would be maybe our relationships with other countries right now. With Trump most other countries seem to be either reviling us or continually mocking us. Or both. And Pence probably wouldn't be so easily baited by Kim Jong Un. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetragrammaton Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Even Pokémon Go used by extensive Russian-linked meddling effort They blame Russia for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoblongoo Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) 43 minutes ago, hanhnn said: Even Pokémon Go used by extensive Russian-linked meddling effort They blame Russia for everything. Russia does a lot of really shady shit. America may have the best conventional army. But they have the best cyber ops, propoganda, and disinformation campaigns--bar none. Edited October 14, 2017 by Shoblongoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Res said: "Arriving at the event, Trump said it was great “to be among friends” as he declared: “We are returning moral clarity to our view of the world.”" It's really sad to see Trump be put up as a show of Judeo-Christian values and morals by some people. I don't really understand it - is it people tying their religion to their politics in ways that don't make sense? Pretty much every Christian I know is not fond of Trump, and yet the Evangelicals seem to support him overwhelmingly, and it seems not just because they agree with his politics more and more because they genuinely believe him to be a good Christian figure. I really thought we were past this fundamentalist authoritarian view, and it's especially saddening since people often forget there is the religious left and center outside of the most-heard-about fundamentalist far-right religious views because they tend to be quieter, more peaceful and actually believe in secularism. Edited October 14, 2017 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Agent 707 said: I don't think he would be more effective at passing legislation. Republicans have all the power currently and they still can't do much lol. I mean, I guess he wouldn't be as moronic as Trump initially was with the travel ban roll-out, but other than that...? i can agree to this; Pence doesn't strike me as a great legislator but at least he respects the institution of things and goes for a gradual derailment rather than a sudden derailment. gives you time to pick up the pieces. trump's dismantling of the ACA just now is not something I expect Pence to even do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) I think people overlook how much of a clusterfuck Trump leaves the White House in every day and how much that's likely going to grate on the sanity of those around him, and how big of an obstacle it is in simply allowing people to do their damn jobs. If someone even vaguely slights him he's out for blood and he'll throw them under the bus on his Twitter feed. AND THESE ARE HIS ALLIES. Seriously. Pence would be an improvement. You may hate him, you may rail against every piece of legislation he may want to enact, but he undoubtedly would be more competent than Trump at leading and running shit in general. Edited October 14, 2017 by Agent 707 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tryhard said: It's really sad to see Trump be put up as a show of Judeo-Christian values and morals by some people. I don't really understand it - is it people tying their religion to their politics in ways that don't make sense? Pretty much every Christian I know is not fond of Trump Christians in the U.K., or U.S.? And I'm still sometimes surprised by how different the dominant U.S. Christian rhetoric is from what gets taught in Europe. Edit: Oh hey, coincidentally I saw this shortly after making this post. 2 hours ago, Agent 707 said: I think people overlook how much of a clusterfuck Trump leaves the White House in every day and how much that's likely going to grate on the sanity of those around him, and how big of an obstacle it is in simply allowing people to do their damn jobs. Is that even possible?! Or am I the only person who can't open up Facebook without learning of the dozens of things that Trump has done that day. Most of the time it's not so much what has he done, but what issue do we concentrate on today? Half the time I post nothing because there's too much to post. The fact that they're his allies are what's sometimes a plus (although granted, it's also sometimes a negative... basically it's all headache inducing). And most people aren't even going to be better off tax-wise. Edited October 14, 2017 by Res Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 7 hours ago, Res said: Christians in the U.K., or U.S.? And I'm still sometimes surprised by how different the dominant U.S. Christian rhetoric is from what gets taught in Europe. Edit: Oh hey, coincidentally I saw this shortly after making this post. Outside of Evangelicals, both. I can't imagine non-Evangelical Episcopalians and Methodists are exactly on board, especially if they care about the moral implications of a man with multiple divorces and cases of adultery and sexual misconduct. But I would know American Christians who would just fundamentally disagree with the man being moral. For the UK, it already has the part of most of the UK not exactly having a fondness for Donald Trump in general - 25% approval or lower. I went to a Catholic high school and we were taught about climate change and evolution, and about other religions in detail as well. It was a rather liberal place. Somehow I can't imagine that if I went to a Baptist school in the South that it would be likely to be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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