Darros Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 perhaps you'd like to join me in subscribing to the morality of "Darros This Question Sucks-ism"? i already apologized im over feeling bad about it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 perhaps you'd like to join me in subscribing to the morality of "Darros This Question Sucks-ism"? well hey you quoted me agreeing on that already! (I forgive you though Darros, I saw your post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 believing requires faith, and faith is destroyed by evidence. i'd agree with your uncle, the moment god is proven, i don't need faith to believe in it, since... there's nothing to believe in. god is real in this scenario, and it would be fact i don't need faith to believe that we are composed of subatomic particles, it has been proven i do however need faith to believe in a god, since it hasn't been proven i think it really comes down to the personal preference of whether you choose to have faith or not, which is a completely subjective matter; i don't have a right to encroach on one who believes in a god as much as that same person doesn't have a right to enforce his beliefs onto me I mean, yeah, that's...kind of as far as the argument can go, you know? Really though, this might be a decent qotd Unless you want to put it in a vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) yeah I know what I mean is they're wrong and losers because even though greys exist black and white still exist too Can objective black and white exist if there is even one person who sees your black as their white, or as a grey? It may be really close to black or white on average, but it's still grey. Even then, the average depends who you sample from. If all you know of is your local town, is it sufficient to extrapolate that everyone has the same values as your town? What about one city? One country? One time, one planet? Even if every single person happened to believe in the same blacks and whites, people could be born who have a different set of values. There could be sentient aliens with different values. Even universal agreement about what is black and white can only exist relative to a certain time, a certain place, or a certain group of people. Edited December 30, 2015 by Makaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soledai Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Unless you want to put it in a vacuum. This was actually why I wanted to see it as a qotd. Specifically to see if anyone would figure this out. EDIT: And also for the optimistic/pessimistic side of this perception/ Edited December 30, 2015 by Soledai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 This was actually why I wanted to see it as a qotd. Specifically to see if anyone would figure this out. Do I get a cookie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soledai Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Do I get a cookie? I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I guess? Yay! Cookie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxas Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 qotd 783: is roxas truly not the greatest user in this serene forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Can objective black and white exist if there is even one person who sees your black as their white, or as a grey? It may be really close to black or white on average, but it's still grey. The average also depends who you sample from. If all you know of is your local town, is it sufficient to extrapolate that everyone has the same values as your town? What about one city? One country? One time, one planet? Even if every single person happened to believe in the same blacks and whites, people could be born who have a different set of values. There could be sentient aliens with different values. Even universal agreement about what is black and white can only exist relative to a certain time, a certain place, or a certain group of people. that's a lot of words to say that some people out there can be bad \o/ my viewpoint has nothing to do with everybody agreeing on the same morals maybe that's just me having the wrong definition on the word morals~ (since apparently its idea has to be that it's different for each person) then maybe I have a different word for my viewpoint that I don't really know I guess if that's the case then I don't really care about "what kind of morals" if morals gets to be so fluid? because then how can that get anything done? Edited December 30, 2015 by Freohr Datia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 qotd 783: is roxas truly not the greatest user in this serene forest. ...who's Roxas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxas Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 ...who's Roxas? (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esme Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 qotd 783: is roxas truly not the greatest user in this serene forest. no young grasshopper still has much to learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Although upon further reflection I change my mind The only reason I didn't like this question at first was because I thought the options were too narrow because I thought absolute meant absolutely absolute but after Euklyd explained it, it means this question covers more than I thought. And people clearly don't all agree on the same thing (after seeing Makaze even when knowing the true definition of both moralities) which means this question is doing what it should be. So yeah you're fine Darros but I'm still disagreeing on this type of argument even existing in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxas Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 no young grasshopper still has much to learn Sensei pls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Wait, are we just allowed to propose questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Wait, are we just allowed to propose questions? yes (and he'll decide whether he wants to use it or not~) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Oh, okay, well, what's the best PSY song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Oh, okay, well, what's the best PSY song? he very much approves~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) that's a lot of words to say that some people out there can be bad \o/ my viewpoint has nothing to do with everybody agreeing on the same morals maybe that's just me having the wrong definition on the word morals~ (since apparently its idea has to be that it's different for each person) then maybe I have a different word for my viewpoint that I don't really know I guess if that's the case then I don't really care about "what kind of morals" if morals gets to be so fluid? It's more about whether you're saying "these things profit everyone" or "these things profit me". What you and another believes is objectively right may bring you both pleasure (i.e. you feel better about the state of the world when the result reflects your values) even if your views contradict. We have no choice but to follow our own compasses. What I want is better because it's me. Me, me, me. Your compass is inferior to mine. Why? Because it's my compass. My enemy thinks the exact same thing about me. To a third party observer, my enemy and I must look fundamentally the same. When two people are both saying "this is moral" and they both mean "this makes me feel better about the world", how can you blame them for what is, in essence, who they are? I feel indignant when my values are violated and happy when they are respected just like someone who believes their values are objective. What makes following my own compass different from believing in traditional morality? When I feel good because the world matches my compass, I do not let myself feel righteous about it. Edited December 30, 2015 by Makaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) maiming and killing is wrong, no buts If killing is wrong, why do some countries have the Death Penalty? Also, what about warfare? Were the Allies morally wrong to wage war on Hitler and Nazi Germany? Edited December 30, 2015 by NinjaMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 i'm not so sure, as my absolutes are pretty much arbitrary - they depend on my beliefs, my upbringing, my surroudingsit is my understanding that even if possibly godly-inspired, they are human-set - i.e., they're choices, we choose what's right and wrong in this world (the next one is another matter entirely)the debate doesn't end when, for instance, you say "killing people is wrong" - what is "killing"? what is "people"? those answers change greatly depending on time (which would be a minute) and place (which could be across the street) No. There are a number of concepts/ideas that are universally accepted(if, perhaps, very difficult to define). Such as what a human, death, killing and theft, to name a few examples. (another would be anger, but that's a different cup of tea) Their definitions have transcended through thousands of years of written history, and even if you ask some African tribal who's never been in contact with the world outside, these will be familiar to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makaze Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) No. There are a number of concepts/ideas that are universally accepted(if, perhaps, very difficult to define). Such as what a human, death, killing and theft, to name a few examples. (another would be anger, but that's a different cup of tea) Their definitions have transcended through thousands of years of written history, and even if you ask some African tribal who's never been in contact with the world outside, these will be familiar to them. Are you forgetting that sociopaths are a part of the pool? Edited December 31, 2015 by Makaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Excellen, those concepts may be semi universal but also maybe not fully so. For example, there are probably still some people who don't consider blacks to be humans. I know my friend said he met a Chinese woman who considered japanese subhuman. Theft probably isn't universally the same either - iirc while few jews,may go by it, I believe they have different laws regarding lending. Killing and death are very different things depending on the belief or lack of belief in an afterlife. While most religions i know of mostly condemn killing a person even if they are destined for heaven, there's a substantial difference between believing a death will bring a person to heaven or hell and believing that their consciousness will vanish, never to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 the conversation ends now, it is time for a new qotd. conversations are OGRE Whatever I want is correct. the correct answer, also mine QUESTION SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY-THREE: What is your favorite PSY video? oppa gangnam style, shoutout to some guy a few pages ago as a palette cleanser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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